directly addressing relationships verbally

[redbaron]

So I've noticed that whenever someone talks directly about the status of a relationship or expresses appreciation formally to someone else, I feel really uncomfortable. Embarrassed. And I think that's strange. I mean, what's wrong with expressing appreciation? One woman in a choir I'm a part of, walked directly up to another woman and started telling her how much she's appreciated her, how much she "likes" her, etc. and I had to get away! I felt so embarrassed and it seemed awkward to me. The second woman accepted it graciously and I couldn't tell what she made of the situation--I turned my attentions elsewhere as I was trying to ignore it! But then I realized that I have always steered clear of this sort of directness and formality. I know that there are some people who appreciate it. Perhaps it's more an issue of style, but then I thought it might be Fi-valuing.

If you like someone, they should know, right? You show them. I think Fe rewards with their presence, with opportunities to share their life and express emotion outwardly in a more all-encompassing way, rather than directly and consciously addressing the relationship itself? And the same goes for negative expression. I'd rather be shunned or socked in the face than told calmly that someone hates me. Maybe this is what expat meant when he used the example of Fi being like a laser beam and Fe being more like a cloud (is that what it was? I'm too lazy to look it up now). Laser beams are pointed, and they almost hurt me. Clouds are murkier and more open to interpretation, but you can spread them around and they're out there. That's how I feel about emotional expression anyway. That it can be there for everyone to smell or something. That's why I like the occasional outrageousness. Because it riles people up, forces them to sit up and take notice, and react, or not. Stirs the pot. I'm sure there are plenty of other people who hate that cloud, and think it's muddying up the world--it makes them cough and turn away. It's an interesting visual image.

Or maybe this is an example of love languages and I'm anti-"words of encouragement" or something. haha It's true, I don't like to be told what someone feels about me as much as I like to be shown.

Anyway, does this kind of expression make anyone else uncomfortable, or is it just me?

[ashlesha]

they make me uncomfortable too but not to the extreme. I have only said something like that when I feel like the other person isn't receptive to the normal way and needs to hear it explicitly to know the truth. it comes across a lot more genuine when its showed rather than said, though. proof and not just words.

[FDG]

Sounds like women-talk . I'd feel awkward either way.

I personally find the laser-beam analogy rather distressing and autism-diagnosis-worthy.

[Trevor]

@redbaron

what you're describing is, among possible other socionics-things, related to your temperament, which is IP.

[The Ineffable]

what you're describing is, among possible other socionics-things, related to your temperament, which is IP.

I think so, too.

[FDG]

It's only happened to me a few times, for someone to speak of the relationship itself as a kind of intangible, emergent 3rd party/object/property/something.

It was actually kind of interesting and helpful at the time, because I'm accustomed (esp. under stress) to reflexively thinking of interpersonal relationships in black&white terms as 'me vs. other person'. So it kind of snaps me out of that, where instead of things being phrased by the other person as "your behaviors are affecting ME" it's "your behavior is affecting our relationship."

Ok, I guess in complicated situations it might be useful...but eventually it has to revert back to someone's natural tendency if the rel. is supposed to last, I think?

I know right. I hate that analogy.

Yeah I mean, suppose a Fi type is among some people he/she knows since childhood, and say 2 very close friends she has gotten to know a later date, and his/her boy/girlfriend. How can he/she direct her attention in a sufficiently equanimous fashion according to the "laser beam" analogy?

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

hah zomg redbaron this reminds me of what i did *yesterday*.i sent an appreciation e-mail to the guy who teached the language classes that i've been attending in france.even though i've liked him all along i could not really make contact (not even normal eye-contact) with him and i almost had a bitchface even though he was so so nice.i'm so bitter about it that i've been working big time on my neutral expression .so ,since i received my grade a few weeks (not even days) ago,i thought it would be a not so lame pretext to e-mail him about it.so ,after i was done with the grade stuff it went bad.it's all blurry.i don't even want to re-read what i sent to the guy but i felt so strongly the need to express for the first time my feelings to an other individual that i appreciated even though i knew that he would be reserved and typical in his response.i could almost see his lovely wtf face.well, it was not a love confession or something but more like a pledge of allegiance.seriously,i just wanted him to know that i am somewhere out there and have a very positive disposition towards him.like "if there will be anything i can do,at some point in the future (lol) blahblah".i even invited him over.in hindsight,damn creepy (for him) and embarassing (for some part of me) but i don't regret writing it since i got out of my comfort place for the first time even if it was in an e-mail towards someone who lives in an other country.ze mirror iz br0k3n!

i think he's ESE.

edit: i've had a blast ! EII >> ESE.

[redbaron]

hah zomg redbaron this reminds me of what i did *yesterday*.i sent an appreciation e-mail to the guy who teached the language classes that i've been attending in france.even though i've liked him all along i could not really make contact (not even normal eye-contact) with him and i almost had a bitchface even though he was so so nice.i'm so bitter about it that i've been working big time on my neutral expression .so ,since i received my grade a few weeks (not even days) ago,i thought it would be a not so lame pretext to e-mail him about it.so ,after i was done with the grade stuff it went bad.it's all blurry.i don't even want to re-read what i sent to the guy but i felt so strongly the need to express for the first time my feelings to an other individual that i appreciated even though i knew that he would be reserved and typical in his response.i could almost see his lovely wtf face.well, it was not a love confession or something but more like a pledge of allegiance.seriously,i just wanted him to know that i am somewhere out there and have a very positive disposition towards him.like "if there will be anything i can do,at some point in the future (lol) blahblah".i even invited him over.in hindsight,damn creepy (for him) and embarassing (for some part of me) but i don't regret writing it since i got out of my comfort place for the first time even if it was in an e-mail towards someone who lives in an other country.ze mirror iz br0k3n!

i think he's ESE.

aww, you're cute. it's easier to stomach in an email! lol. Plus, I'm probably just weird.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

i mean,TAUGHT.

duh,i don't think i'd have sent this mail if i knew for sure that i would ever meet him again ;E

[Gilly]

It should just be known...

[Creepy-male]

hah zomg redbaron this reminds me of what i did *yesterday*.i sent an appreciation e-mail to the guy who teached the language classes that i've been attending in france.even though i've liked him all along i could not really make contact (not even normal eye-contact) with him and i almost had a bitchface even though he was so so nice.i'm so bitter about it that i've been working big time on my neutral expression .so ,since i received my grade a few weeks (not even days) ago,i thought it would be a not so lame pretext to e-mail him about it.so ,after i was done with the grade stuff it went bad.it's all blurry.i don't even want to re-read what i sent to the guy but i felt so strongly the need to express for the first time my feelings to an other individual that i appreciated even though i knew that he would be reserved and typical in his response.i could almost see his lovely wtf face.well, it was not a love confession or something but more like a pledge of allegiance.seriously,i just wanted him to know that i am somewhere out there and have a very positive disposition towards him.like "if there will be anything i can do,at some point in the future (lol) blahblah".i even invited him over.in hindsight,damn creepy (for him) and embarassing (for some part of me) but i don't regret writing it since i got out of my comfort place for the first time even if it was in an e-mail towards someone who lives in an other country.ze mirror iz br0k3n!

i think he's ESE.

And if you were a guy this email would be spread across the internets while women everywhere picked at your entrails as a means of catharsis for their failed relationships, while other guys would laugh at you and call you a virgin to make themselves appear cooler... and you would be expected to live with that. You would look at the situation, nod your head, fully acknowledge it, agree with yourself you are screwed, swallow the lump in your throat, and it would find its way to the core of your stomach where it would sit there for the rest of your life like a malignant tumor. The only thing that can save you at this point is the hope that some poor sap will do something worse and ignite the fury of the mob, to make you appear less awful in relation.

But in all seriousness I will say one thing serious... and that is I know what you mean about the feeling of positive disposition, I get this feeling towards some people (both men and women), and it's very frustrating to not be able to express it properly. Sometimes it even comes across phony. It's not like you can walk up to someone and be like "Durrr I got a positive disposition towards you".... they would think you were mentally retarded. And once again re-merging back to the jokes... if you're a guy they would think you want to rape them.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

And if you were a guy this email would be spread across the internets while women everywhere picked at your entrails as a means of catharsis for their failed relationships, while other guys would laugh at you and call you a virgin to make themselves appear cooler... and you would be expected to live with that. You would look at the situation, nod your head, fully acknowledge it, agree with yourself you are screwed, swallow the lump in your throat, and it would find its way to the core of your stomach where it would sit there for the rest of your life like a malignant tumor. The only thing that can save you at this point is the hope that some poor sap will do something worse and ignite the fury of the mob, to make you appear less awful in relation.

But in all seriousness I will say one thing serious... and that is I know what you mean about the feeling of positive disposition, I get this feeling towards some people (both men and women), and it's very frustrating to not be able to express it properly. Sometimes it even comes across phony. It's not like you can walk up to someone and be like "Durrr I got a positive disposition towards you".... they would think you were mentally retarded. And once again re-merging back to the jokes... if you're a guy they would think you want to rape them.

nah,you speak in absolutes.i think a certain combination is needed in order to get to what you're describing here.maybe one of them has to be LII.what i'm saying is that before the bump,i was more than confident in his psychological profile and the possible reactions.it's not like i have Asperger's syndrome mirite.also,i 've said that i would not walk up to someone and be like "Durrr I got a positive disposition towards you".it's just that this case kept resting heavy on my shoulders and mailing him would put an end to it ,in some way.it's like when a ghost only haunts people till it gets what it wants and then it stops being trapped in the in-between and moves on.anyway it was a good lesson.oddly enough,i feel more powerful now since i got to implement this dynamic.

He was kind of awesome about it though and responded to my email positively and added me on facebook and everything.

his response was positive,yet as impersonal as possible.he thanked me for the nice message and then made kind of a bitter comment (yet with a glimpse of optimism) on the current socioeconomic situation.i think it was because i pledged my allegiance in a strong way.if i ever get to meet him again i'll be kinda goofy about it but not in an i-take-it-back way.and then i will rape him.i'm almost sure that there's some weird venus-pluto aspect in our synastry.argh gotta get my hands on his birthdate[/creep]

[ashlesha]

Follow-up question: how does one respond to that sort of thing, if one is the target? I usually just say, "uh... thanks?" - which is think isn't quite the right response

haha this is precisely why it makes me uncomfortable. Im like "aww, I like you too." thankfully this has never happened with someone I dislike. but its awkward regardless.

[redbaron]

I agree redbaron, I find it completely awkward, especially if the person does it in front of a group of people, which makes me feel like she's pointing out how much the rest of the group has failed to meet her expectations. And I purposely use female pronouns, because I think it's a female phenomenon. I've seen Fi-egos state it explicitly, whereas with Fe-egos it's kind of obvious who they like because they kind of "gush" at the other person, which is also slightly uncomfortable in a different way but I'm less bothered by it.

Exactly! Along similar lines, I have a fb friend who sometimes will post generalized "thank yous" publicly to people who have helped her. And I almost think it's intentional to point out how everyone else is NOT helping her! Seriously! She's LIE. Anyway, I just find it inappropriate and borderline rude. She has also posted things publicly like "I appreciate so much those people who remembered my child's birthday". FIRST OF ALL, why can't you just thank the people who did this, privately. SECONDLY are we really expected to remember all of your children's birthdays? I don't expect this! She just annoys me.

[Radio]

hah zomg redbaron this reminds me of what i did *yesterday*.i sent an appreciation e-mail to the guy who teached the language classes that i've been attending in france.even though i've liked him all along i could not really make contact (not even normal eye-contact) with him and i almost had a bitchface even though he was so so nice.i'm so bitter about it that i've been working big time on my neutral expression .so ,since i received my grade a few weeks (not even days) ago,i thought it would be a not so lame pretext to e-mail him about it.so ,after i was done with the grade stuff it went bad.it's all blurry.i don't even want to re-read what i sent to the guy but i felt so strongly the need to express for the first time my feelings to an other individual that i appreciated even though i knew that he would be reserved and typical in his response.i could almost see his lovely wtf face.well, it was not a love confession or something but more like a pledge of allegiance.seriously,i just wanted him to know that i am somewhere out there and have a very positive disposition towards him.like "if there will be anything i can do,at some point in the future (lol) blahblah".i even invited him over.in hindsight,damn creepy (for him) and embarassing (for some part of me) but i don't regret writing it since i got out of my comfort place for the first time even if it was in an e-mail towards someone who lives in an other country.ze mirror iz br0k3n!

i think he's ESE.

ahahaha this strikes home... I did the same once for this guy who was kind-of popular where I studied, and was moving to spain, and I felt this inexplicable desire to let him know how much I had appreciated his presence before he left. except we had never spoken to each other before so it was kind of wtf, I just walked up to him and said "I'm going to email you something later, please read it". He was kind of awesome about it though and responded to my email positively and added me on facebook and everything.

I think he was EIE.

[EyeSeeCold]

I agree with FDG. Plus putting people on the spot for relationships is always awkward. But it can be gotten used to.

they make me uncomfortable too but not to the extreme. I have only said something like that when I feel like the other person isn't receptive to the normal way and needs to hear it explicitly to know the truth. it comes across a lot more genuine when its showed rather than said, though. proof and not just words.

The problem with this is that unless the show of sentiment is clearly explicit like getting engaged or moving in together, or something else that is a leap of faith, the person can always back out of it saying "I never said [those three words]".

I agree otherwise though.

[Beautiful sky]

So I've noticed that whenever someone talks directly about the status of a relationship or expresses appreciation formally to someone else, I feel really uncomfortable.

That would be ignoring Fi.

[Gilly]

That would be ignoring Fi.

And you would be ignoring much of reality.

[Absurd]

And you would be ignoring much of reality.

Tell her Ashton.

[strrrng]

I tend to think that if you have to be told, you won't get it anyway.

[Codie]

I know exactly what you're talking about now. I wanted to bump this before it gets old. My Stepdads a SEE and I've noticed that he does this, putting all his feelings on the table talking about the status of relations, and expressing appreciation for me etc. .. and I cant help feeling a bit trapped while he does this. It makes me very uncomfortable to be honest.

[ScarlettLux]

Wow, lol I guess I would make you super uncomfy redbaron!

I do this a LOT and I find it a very pleasant, cute thing to do for others. I love telling people outright how much I adore/appreciate them and I love when they tell me the same in very concrete, obvious and no bullshit terms. I am always saying how much I really like this person or that person and why.

I obviously "show" my love for someone, but I just think that telling someone is extremely important as well.

TO DOLPHIN: That sounds spot on about the parents thing. I deal with that too and I EAT UP things like "I'm proud of you" and "I love you!" I have often actually felt neglected and not validated simply because they never SAID anything to me as much as they DID things.