I declare myself SEE Se subtype for good

[ScarlettLux]

Actually I think I'm SLE. Isn't it obvious?

[Absurd]

To put it bluntly.

That was a rhetorical question.

Actually I think I'm SLE. Isn't it obvious?

I hope Mountain LSE still identifies with you.

[ScarlettLux]

He is a clear ILI

[Absurd]

He is a clear ILI

Interesting. Didn't think about that before.

[Creepy-Snaps]

it plays with people's emotions and its basically just a joke to the person doing it.

Sorry Mr. Fe-valuer.

I'll leave the melodrama to you. You're better at it than me.

Thank you good sir.

But whats the point of repeatedly tearing something down for the fun of it?

For the fun of it.

He is a clear ILI

[Enterprising Tim]

[Absurd]

[Anglas]

okay, party is over, go back to your quadras

[Absurd]

okay, party is over, go back to your quadras

Look who's talking.

[Ave]

Sorry Mr. Fe-valuer.

Look whos talking.

[Ave]

That was a rhetorical question.

I know, but I didnt bite the bait so easily, you see.

[Gilly]

NO.

PULL THEM BIG GIRL PANTIES UP

[Absurd]

I know, but I didnt bite the bait so easily, you see.

Look who's talking.

[InvisibleJim]

Situational self-redefinition isn't a tendency unique to either side of the Static|Dynamic dichotomy—it's more a symptom of unstable, externally-dependent self-concept. She's opined before about probably having Borderline Personality Disorder, so go figure that she'd exhibit this trait.

Evaluating her observable mentations as evinced through her writing, is looking at the underlying cognitive styles, and demonstrably reflect one's IE preferences. And it's obvious on these grounds that SL's type-orientation is not a Static one. She construes her experiences through synthetic generalizations of active, continuous processes (flows)—as opposed to more 'raw', delimited perceptual events conveying emphasis on the qualia or properties present.

I think it is a tendency of certain types, it doesn't need to be cast in stone from a Russian source for me to buy it. I seem to see it all too often for it to be ignored. EPs are histrionic to a point, just as IPs can be paranoid to a point - like myself on occasion - chasing that same old bone that bothered us months before.

But that's my point exactly, you may evince from her writing that its this way or that, but other people will get the vibe in a different way. So it becomes more a game of x% chance of type A and y% chance of type B (more than one way to skin a chat). If we apply what we feel as 'vibes' to narrow down the decision tree then we can lead ourselves down pathways that are based upon what we perceive (which is a realistic possible outcome) rather than the actual situation (which we don't have the information to correctly judge).

Of course this is all technicalities and why people will always find different types for the same person.

[silke]

I disagree, I would state that she is a static type because she keeps redefining 'what she is' situationally. A dynamic type would have flow. One day she is IEE due to one set of experiences the next she is SEE, these are discrete, static states based upon the current environment

That you have noticed SL to change her states "based upon the current environment" indicates that her Je > Ji - the flow of outside events (Je) governs her internal states (Ji). This is exactly what is described of dynamic types (hence why they are called "dynamic"). You're actually noticing dynamic traits of SL and then calling them static(?)

... there is minimal reflection and reinforcement.She doesn't see the common trends. Thats what I would define as being static when it comes to processing information.

This runs contrary to how other SEEs express themselves on this forum. Take a look at dolphin's or wookie's posts. You'll see that both of them provide plenty of "reinforcement" for their opinions.

...In this situation I see ScarletLux going... okay, I like all of these things but can't be bothered to do the work to justify any of them unless I'm pushed and forced and I don't like it! Then I'll copy and paste 100 irrelevant paragraphs to justify why its great without adding any concise 'working through' of the problem. A dead give away of Ti polr.

Only that other SEEs on this forum have no problem giving justifications and providing their reasoning, so this doesn't fit with what you're saying.

It is a misconception that anyone who is unable to put forward their reasoning must be Ti-PoLR or devalue Ti. As dolphin has already commented even if SEEs have weak Ni they are still fully able to back up their claims with direct emergent experiences (Se-leading) and their creative Ji function is well capable of constructing a well-structured argument out of those experiences.

... EPs are histrionic to a point, just as IPs can be paranoid to a point - like myself on occasion - chasing that same old bone that bothered us months before.

I know it is an MBTI stereotype that EPs are these ditsy, impulsive types, perpetually ADHD and incapable on focusing on anything, but over the time that I've studied socionics I've found that many of these types of extraverts are actually Je-EJs who are focusing on their mobilizing/HA function to an unhealthy extent.

This is also where analysing peoples 'writing style' falls down, because you need to look at their underlying cognitive thought processes, the 'why' not the method of presentation.

I disagree with your statement that analyzing people's writing style "falls down" when it comes to shedding light on the underlying cognitive processes on basis that within the field of Cognitive Science there exists a subfield called Cognitive Linguistics. One of the tenets of Cognitive Linguistics is that the part of the mind that generates language is not autonomous but is, in fact, inseparable from one's overall cognition, and that construal operations present in one's language can be related to cognitive processes postulated by psychologists and described in phenomenology. There is research being done on this subject at several places, including UCLA and UC Berkeley, and even universities of your own country. Making inferences about someone's cognition based on their language, the patterns present in their speech and writing, i.e. the information flow that they produce, is definitely not something that Russians have invented out of thin air.

...But that's my point exactly, you may evince from her writing that its this way or that, but other people will get the vibe in a different way.

'Vibes' will differ person to person, of course, but semantics-wise there is no question what constitutes a linking verb and what constitutes an action verb. One's own sentiments and personal predisposition towards whoever one's typing cannot change this. This is the advantage of typing people by their information metabolism rather than by 'vibes' and various subjective personal impressions or one's interpretation of interpersonal relationships. Though the later kind of information is still valuable in typing, these methods are much more susceptible to personal biases.

[Jonathan]

Going by how SL expresses herself in writing she sounds very much dynamic.

Here is a Russian study that covers differences between static and dynamic types: link


Essentially, static types tend to use linking verbs that do not show action, while dynamic types tend to use action verbs.

That's actually a reasonable approach....trying to pin down static vs. dynamic (or why, ScarlettLux, you feel you're an irrational and sensing type).

The frustration, though, I have with these Socoinics papers that refer to themselves as studies and "research results" is that there's typically very little about methodology. Here they claim to have observed at least 20 people for each "attribute," but I see nothing indicating that they actually performed a legitimate test rather than just reinforcing observer bias based on what Augusta or others already said about each dichotomy.

Some of these I'm more skeptical of than others. Static/dynamic seems to make some sense, but in real life, the idea that all it takes is a simple linguistic analysis is confounded by the fact that certain situations influence whether it's appropriate to make a "static" or "dynamic" statement. I mean, aren't there situations where almost anybody would use an action verb, and other situations where the only logical choice is a linking verb?

Nevertheless, I like the linguistic analysis approach. If someone analyzed an SL passage according to a certain set of definitions, then at least we could see why that passage types a certain way, within that set of assumptions.

It may not make anyone feel as if the disagreements are resolved, but at least it would be an interesting exercise. I've always felt that Socionics is better as a literary analysis tool than as a personality typing tool, anyways.

[InvisibleJim]

This runs contrary to how other SEEs express themselves on this forum. Take a look at dolphin's or wookie's posts. You'll see that both of them provide plenty of "reinforcement" for their opinions.

Perhaps so, but what you are probably inclined to be hearing here is that I don't really buy the overly precise technical explanation which is simply too accurate for the theory which spawns it - Simply I'm the cynic who wouldn't invest whilst everyone else is jumping hoops to do so. Therefore, better to be in a minority of 1.

To reinforce this i'll forward this one:

'Vibes' will differ person to person, of course, but semantics-wise there is no question what constitutes a linking verb and what constitutes an action verb. One's own sentiments and personal predisposition towards whoever one's typing cannot change this. This is the advantage of typing people by their information metabolism rather than by 'vibes' and various subjective personal impressions or one's interpretation of interpersonal relationships. Though the later kind of information is still valuable in typing, these methods are much more susceptible to personal biases.

I believe there are a number of vibes which are not suitably grounded in theory, however they are used in this forum as fact. A theoretical principle shouldn't be preferred if you are comparing it to some behavioral vibe displayed by other people that is quite consistent and clearly identifiable.

Observation tends to trump theory for me.

[Beautiful sky]

All I do in life is seek out experience.. I crave it. I lose myself in the music I play and listen to simply because.. I do not analyze why things affect me so much like dance or the sound of a thunderstorm raging against the ground .

He can't read what you write? What you wrote in the above is Se.

lol no matter how many times I read the above posts, I'm still confused as fuck.

I don't understand these kinds of descriptions. Socionics becomes more and more of a joke to me as time passes. It's so ridiculous the amount of abstraction and theorizing that some people put into it when yeah, everyone's viewpoints will always differ somewhat and there's no way to confirm any objective truth about any function. Damn why am I here?

Ti PoLR; because Ti is like diffusion of information and an abstract analysis; you'll get it eventually if you keep forcing yourself to review it.

[ScarlettLux]

Maritsa said it. It is now known that I am 100% SEE

[717495]

CONFIMED

[InvisibleJim]

CONFIMED

Until next time!!!eleventy one!!111

[Korpsy Knievel]

SEE fits best on a personal, deep, core level... although EIE still best explains my intertype relations.

However, I am waiting for an ILI to show up in my life and then we will see.

That ILI better loooooove because you're constantly throwing elbows with that shit.

[woofwoofl]

I was always leaning Beta NF for you, wanting to keep SEE open... you slammed that door frighteningly hard when you stormed the chatbox and raked some still-unknown perpetrator(s) over the coals for not doing whatever it is you find indicative of remembering your birthday, implicitly telling everyone else they should join the dogpile all the while. Hell, that kinda stuff puts me on edge...

I've got you now as Fe-EIE; while I'm at it, I'm gonna declare Billy Corgan as Ni-ILI, leave these three songs here, and leave three more songs written mainly by your almost certain Conflictor...

[Anglas]

She thinks she is SEE because EVEN Maritsa said it, lmfao. Bye bye

[ScarlettLux]

Wow Anglas - you're... joking right? Or do you just not understand sarcasm at all?

Actually, I've been considering SLE now, on a serious note. I have interpersonal problems very similar to Jessica and relate to her a lot, as she relates to me...

[ScarlettLux]

I was always leaning Beta NF for you, wanting to keep SEE open... you slammed that door frighteningly hard when you stormed the chatbox and raked some still-unknown perpetrator(s) over the coals for not doing whatever it is you find indicative of remembering your birthday, implicitly telling everyone else they should join the dogpile all the while. Hell, that kinda stuff puts me on edge...

I've got you now as Fe-EIE; while I'm at it, I'm gonna declare Billy Corgan as Ni-ILI, leave these three songs here, and leave three more songs written mainly by your almost certain Conflictor...

I was drunk lol.. but what does that have to do with anything? I was genuinely mad at a close friend... you don't know the whole story or our relationship, so why does it put you on edge? I feel like I have very good reason to be angry. What would YOU do in a similar situation? How do you handle your anger?

Actually it pisses me off that something like that would somehow change your opinion of me.. doesn't make any sense at all given the context. She didn't "not remember my birthday" ... I don't even know what I said in chat but the story was that she did not show up to my birthday event literally last second even though she knew I was already upset with people flopping on me. Her and I are quite close, I am always inviting her everywhere and she seems to come out of her own selfish reasons and not because she cares about our friendship.

I was at her birthday and am always supportive of her, too much so, and it really made me angry that she canceled without much regret or sorrow. To me, that is common courtesy to give back to others what they have given/done for you.

[ScarlettLux]

Also.. the songs you posted, I have no problem with? What were you expecting me to say lol? OHMGAW like I can't stand them, they hit my PoLR and shitttt?

I quite like Smashing Pumpkins but I admittedly find Billy Corgan to be a pussy. His poetry outside of Smashing Pumpkins/musical stuff is HILARIOUSLY bad.

[woofwoofl]

I was drunk lol.. but what does that have to do with anything? I was genuinely mad at a close friend... you don't know the whole story or our relationship, so why does it put you on edge? I feel like I have very good reason to be angry. What would YOU do in a similar situation? How do you handle your anger?

Actually it pisses me off that something like that would somehow change your opinion of me.. doesn't make any sense at all given the context. She didn't "not remember my birthday" ... I don't even know what I said in chat but the story was that she did not show up to my birthday event literally last second even though she knew I was already upset with people flopping on me. Her and I are quite close, I am always inviting her everywhere and she seems to come out of her own selfish reasons and not because she cares about our friendship.

I was at her birthday and am always supportive of her, too much so, and it really made me angry that she canceled without much regret or sorrow. To me, that is common courtesy to give back to others what they have given/done for you.

What puts me on edge is that I've got a good deal of friends I'm close with, some not so much; I might be unintentionally pissing a bunch of people off by not celebrating their birthday. I have one, I get a year older, I'm happy I look better than my age, I try not to think about things going all to hell as a result of time marching on, and I get back to business. It's not necessarily a happy day for me, I don't know why it should be, so I don't remind anyone else when they have one going on...

As for what I'd do? If there was any huge event I was having, and someone blew it off, I wouldn't be terribly thrilled, but I'd understand; hell, I'm awful at contacting people and keeping in touch, and I figure they wouldn't be too let down if I was gone anyways; the ones who get pissed about things probably get effectively filtered out anyways. It's useless to feel bad about things, so I do my best not to. Me and my friends know what's up, we've got each other's backs, and we're glad to see each other whenever we do; until we're all sick of each other, of course, then we more-or-less rotate people until we're not...

Also.. the songs you posted, I have no problem with? What were you expecting me to say lol? OHMGAW like I can't stand them, they hit my PoLR and shitttt?

I quite like Smashing Pumpkins but I admittedly find Billy Corgan to be a pussy. His poetry outside of Smashing Pumpkins/musical stuff is HILARIOUSLY bad.

I had no idea what to expect specifically, but I knew something usable would come of it... and it did.

Fe from you, all over the place in both posts, everywhere, and no largely positive reaction on your end to three of Billy's songs likely dripping with Fi HA; the final two of three Helmet songs were as well (the first one was there because it struck me as Ne/Si, I simply like the song, and I wanted to round things out and wrap the post off without being too blaringly obvious about anything).

Anyways, if you're SEE, an Ni-ILI would be your Dual, and an SLI would be your Illusionary; why would a "PolR hit" be involved in this?

By the way, this "pussy" thing you're bringing up? Not the word I'd ever use, but I'm pretty sure I know what you're referring to, and I take those people under my wing lots of the time. One dude I still gotta train to be a proper brawler, and I'm so proud of him for kicking some ass on some asshole dude who's with a girl he likes... I pumped him up, told him he's gotta do it and be the hero, and he did it! The girl liked it a lot, I'm telling him to keep the heat up, he's doing awesome... and yes, I was shitty at keeping in touch, I blew him off, we resolved it in a matter of seconds... shame I didn't see the black eye though haha...

[Anglas]

Wow Anglas - you're... joking right? Or do you just not understand sarcasm at all?

I always joking and Never get serious.

Actually, I've been considering SLE now, on a serious note. I have interpersonal problems very similar to Jessica and relate to her a lot, as she relates to me...

why not ILI? you are the most obvious Fe polr I met on internet

[Gilly]

ScarlettLux really is fast-tracking it to being Joy II.

Lol.

[ScarlettLux]

Why does everyone take me so seriously? Do I ACTUALLY think I'm SLE?

[ScarlettLux]

What puts me on edge is that I've got a good deal of friends I'm close with, some not so much; I might be unintentionally pissing a bunch of people off by not celebrating their birthday. I have one, I get a year older, I'm happy I look better than my age, I try not to think about things going all to hell as a result of time marching on, and I get back to business. It's not necessarily a happy day for me, I don't know why it should be, so I don't remind anyone else when they have one going on...

As for what I'd do? If there was any huge event I was having, and someone blew it off, I wouldn't be terribly thrilled, but I'd understand; hell, I'm awful at contacting people and keeping in touch, and I figure they wouldn't be too let down if I was gone anyways; the ones who get pissed about things probably get effectively filtered out anyways. It's useless to feel bad about things, so I do my best not to. Me and my friends know what's up, we've got each other's backs, and we're glad to see each other whenever we do; until we're all sick of each other, of course, then we more-or-less rotate people until we're not...



I had no idea what to expect specifically, but I knew something usable would come of it... and it did.

Fe from you, all over the place in both posts, everywhere, and no largely positive reaction on your end to three of Billy's songs likely dripping with Fi HA; the final two of three Helmet songs were as well (the first one was there because it struck me as Ne/Si, I simply like the song, and I wanted to round things out and wrap the post off without being too blaringly obvious about anything).

Anyways, if you're SEE, an Ni-ILI would be your Dual, and an SLI would be your Illusionary; why would a "PolR hit" be involved in this?

By the way, this "pussy" thing you're bringing up? Not the word I'd ever use, but I'm pretty sure I know what you're referring to, and I take those people under my wing lots of the time. One dude I still gotta train to be a proper brawler, and I'm so proud of him for kicking some ass on some asshole dude who's with a girl he likes... I pumped him up, told him he's gotta do it and be the hero, and he did it! The girl liked it a lot, I'm telling him to keep the heat up, he's doing awesome... and yes, I was shitty at keeping in touch, I blew him off, we resolved it in a matter of seconds... shame I didn't see the black eye though haha...

I care about birthdays. I care about others' birthdays. I try to show up to others' birthdays. It's a mutual back & forth thangggg you know? I wasn't mad at anyone that I wasn't CLOSE with, get it? I was only mad at especially one person in particular. If you yourself are terrible at keeping contact, then I see why it wouldn't bug you. I'm amazing at keeping in contact, and I'm the person who always does so pretty much.. I tend to not let go of past friendships, etc... always organizing/planning meet ups and stuff. Sometimes I feel like I give more than I get you know?

Well just for the record, I actually think Billy's a really whiny IEI. You take "pussies" under your wing? Hmm, I'm not sure if I do that.. I generally like quiet, stoic types, but people that have strength underneath all of that that I can sense.

Why did I say something about PoLR hit? Because you said I'm EIE. And then you said the last few songs were from an SLI. So I was assuming you were expecting some kind of visceral "ew" reaction from me to confirm some kind of Si PoLR.

[Jenna]

If you are giving more than you are getting, then don't give so much. Why do you do it? If you are doing it because that's what you really want to do, then why are you complaining? You shouldn't give and then expect to get back. That's setting yourself up for disappointment. Maybe your friends don't think of friendship the same way you do, and they don't think that birthdays are important. Doesn't mean they don't think you are important.

[ScarlettLux]

That's the point: Of course nobody takes you seriously.

... what?

[ScarlettLux]

If you are giving more than you are getting, then don't give so much. Why do you do it? If you are doing it because that's what you really want to do, then why are you complaining? You shouldn't give and then expect to get back. That's setting yourself up for disappointment. Maybe your friends don't think of friendship the same way you do, and they don't think that birthdays are important. Doesn't mean they don't think you are important.

That's true.. I recognized that actually and didn't blow up over it like I normally would have. I personally have some rejection issues and anything that might seem that way towards me I freak out over (mildly borderline). I was mad for a day and then I got over it, tried to think about it more rationally. Thank God I didn't take it too far, and I think my friendship is now strengthened by the fact that I did try to be more understanding and forgiving.

But are you saying I shouldn't expect a close friend to show up for my birthday? I mean ... it's important to me, it would have made me happy, so the fact that she didn't show up hurt me.. I really don't know what exactly is so wrong about my reaction save for the unfortunate blow up in chat... which lasted... a minute.

TBH I'm constantly asking friends what to do in sticky situations like that, how to control anger and feelings of not being loved/cared for. I sort of feel socially retarded in that sense. I finally accepted that following others' advice actually DOES help rather than pushing and pushing conflict.

[Beautiful sky]

That ILI better loooooove because you're constantly throwing elbows with that shit.

That's not if it is then it's demonstrative.

[Korpsy Knievel]

That's not if it is then it's demonstrative.

Unless, of course, it isn't. *UFO sounds*

[ScarlettLux]

Hehehe this thread was productive.

Anyway I'm just going to copy & paste something no one will probably read. It's from my tumblr and I think that at least my blogs tell something about me. Here's the link http://amisuchadreamer.tumblr.com/

Acid
Some say acid can make you step outside and see your life from a very different perspective, causing discomfort initially, but then progress in the sense that you suddenly realize what the hell is going wrong in your life and how you can change things.

Well, I don’t do acid (yeah not exciting anymore I know), but I swear I had a moment like that on the subway train to dance class today.
It was very uncomfortable because as I was listening to my music, I kept thinking, thinking too hard and going through multiple incidents in my life that have been my own fault. I have led myself to where I am today, in both good and bad ways. I started going through patterns of interaction with people and I regrettably admitted to myself that I was the cause and source of a lot of problems I now have in my life. There is really nobody else to blame but myself and my own … shall it not be selfishness, but a simple “lack of awareness” for other people which can be seen as inconsiderate, brash, and at worst, cruel.

I know I’ve said before that I would “let things go” and although that may be a solution to some things that have already passed the point of no return, I’m not sure it’s at all helpful to other things that I can still change. My treatment of valued people in my life has not been the greatest, not on account of any purposeful evil or anything, but because of not empathizing properly. It’s like this bubble that has surrounded me for most of my life, encapsulating me in my own la la world has finally started popping and my actions have finally reciprocated back upon me. I’m starting to see why a lot of people have issues with me.

Yes, I said it… I used to be a very difficult person to maintain a close friendship with because I would hurt you… a lot. Unwittingly, unknowingly! And then go on expecting the world to keep turning and our friendship to keep going. Little did I know that grudges build up and with reason.
So the painful truth is that I must keep trying to correct some wrongs I’ve done in the past.. humility is a difficult thing. It will take a while, but hopefully things will someday right themselves again.

I keep asking for people to understand me… to understand that my intentions were never bad, just really, really clueless. But people aren’t that forgiving. The ones that are, I suppose they’ll be here forever, but how do I learn to deal with people that are unerringly judgmental? I still can’t help feeling morally indignant for the way I’ve been treated, but I don’t think that’s going to get me anywhere anymore. Maybe I should really take on a new strategy. Something that’s so alien to me - it’s called acceptance of hardships in life, lol. Acceptance meaning that even though I might feel like something or someone is unfair, I won’t make things worse by creating a conflict out of it. I still don’t entirely agree with this way of coping because I still think it makes you a fucking pussy… but we’ll try it out.
Ugh, am I growing up?

[InvisibleJim]

... what?

Ashton squirms a lot when people disagree with him, its usually best just to let him vent.

[Ryan]

ESI.

I'm starting to think Maritsa is one as well, thanks to Krig.