Going by Reinin, I think I might fit the aristocratic group better than the democratic, pointing IEI > SEI. I mean, look at this: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post841900
I basically organized bakery customers into general groups based on observed characteristics. Sure, anyone can do that, but it's something I actually enjoyed doing and that came naturally to me.
What NBS said - everyone does this to some extent, since it is highly evolutionary advantageous to be able to make quick assessments about people going by observed traits. I am supposedly in Aristocratic quadra but I generally don't view people in terms of what groups they belong to. Like I am aware of this, but it doesn't seem important so I don't put much emphasis on it. I think that this part of socionics has been mixed up with the instinctual stackings. Group awareness and awareness of social hierarchy is attributed to the social instinct.
from: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ar...artinstvar.aspSocial subtype: This subtype is focused on their interactions with other people and with the sense of value or esteem they derive from their participation in collective activities. These include work, family, hobbies, clubs—basically any arena in which Social types can interact with others for some shared purpose. The instinct underlying this behavior was an important one in human survival. Human beings on their own are rather weak, vulnerable creatures, and easily fall prey to a frequently hostile environment. By learning to live and work together, our ancestors created the safety necessary for human beings not only to survive, but to thrive. Within that social instinct, however, are many other implicit imperatives, and primary among them is the understanding of "place" within a hierarchical social structure.
Russians don't use enneagram or instinct typings. My perception has been that they will instead try to use socionics TIMs to explain all kinds of personality traits, leading to gross over-attribution. This is likely what happened with Aristocratic/Democratic dichotomy, that they've made several attributions to it that simply don't work.
I would say that going by your threads, like the recent one with discussion about the impact of porn on our culture, there is so-instinct somewhere in your stacking. There is a certain lightness in the way that you express yourself, such that I think so/sx or so/sp is a better fit for you than sx/sp.
gonna count these three for internal statics of objects aka Ne
all sorts of Pe up in here, can't really make a call here due to me visualizing a helix of black/green clouds with gray, illuminated stone ground in the center, undisturbed, with you in the dead center
if this exists within the confines of your mind, yet you're standing in it, with a -
fuck fuck fuck
yes you can; go around typing other people based on things outside of your personal interactions with them, make a bigass list, look for similarities, have your typings reach critical mass to become a self-sustaining and self-growing pyroclastic flow, devouring all and making all its own...
AAAHH why must Se be equated directly with force
Being aware of the external statics of objects aka Se aka what shit totally is in the physical world in which we're all part of, will likely lead towards being more confident in not only those matters (how heavy something is, will this balance on that, can I stack these things without having everything fall over, where to stand in a hallway so everyone else doesn't rightfully want/tell me to get the fuck out the way), but ones in the close periphery, including some of which falls within the parameters of "force"... there's a shit ton of causal links from "Se" to "force", and each one adds more static to the picture...
HIPSTER = Ne/Si
Ne/Si = HIPSTER (covert or overt)
FUCK YEAH FUCK YEAH OH MY GOD
FAP FAP FAPFAPFAPFAPFAP FAP FAp fAaPfAoopOIOIjgYgyub&^OGG^&yy76f67
p . . . a . . . n . . . d . . . o . . . r . . . a
trad metalz | (more coming)
Thanks for the input! I could see my stacking being different and my behavior/values being colored by it just as much as by Socionics type, but it's hard for me to tell since I can't see either sx or sp as last. I definitely seek intense experiences (majored in photojournalism!) and relationships, and am concerned with health issues and typical sp things. Going by the descriptions here: http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=84:80 (looks legit, I know, but descriptions are good). Reading these now, sp/sx actually fits me better than sx/sp, but I could see so/sx too. They both fit well.
From Wikisocion:
"Ne is generally associated with the ability to recognize possibilities, create new opportunities and new beginnings, recognize talent and natural propensities in others, reconcile differing perspectives and viewpoints, rapidly generate ideas, and be led by one's intellectual curiosity and stimulate curiosity in others."
Huh? Maybe I don't understand Ne.
Ahaha, sometimes I get carried away with stupid metaphors that don't really make much sense. Good catch!all sorts of Pe up in here, can't really make a call here due to me visualizing a helix of black/green clouds with gray, illuminated stone ground in the center, undisturbed, with you in the dead center
if this exists within the confines of your mind, yet you're standing in it, with a -
fuck fuck fuck
I have tried typing people, and there are some I'm sure of (ILE bf, SLE dad, SEI mom, SEE, IEE, LII, EII friends). I feel like knowing my type would make typing them easier because I could add my interactions with them to my subjective data pool before settling on their type. SEI just sits weird with me based on my typings of people I know...I get along too well with my SEE friends to feel like their contrary, and am more similar in thought process and behavior to my SLE dad than my SEI mom, for instance. The Alpha caregiver stuff really grates on me after a while; I want to do things myself, dammit, so back off!
yes you can; go around typing other people based on things outside of your personal interactions with them, make a bigass list, look for similarities, have your typings reach critical mass to become a self-sustaining and self-growing pyroclastic flow, devouring all and making all its own...
I am a photographer; I'm well aware of what shit is, as well as the hidden implications that arise when I position said shit a certain way in the frame of an image. I am good at weaving through crowds to get from one point to the next, determining the "flow" of a mosh pit and positioning myself to avoid getting crushed, etc. I do appreciate help with Se things, though, like providing me the motivation to overcome my laziness and do worthwhile stuff. Not sure how to prove Ni/Se valuing over Ne/Si; it's hard to get this across to people who don't really know me, I guess.AAAHH why must Se be equated directly with force
Being aware of the external statics of objects aka Se aka what shit totally is in the physical world in which we're all part of, will likely lead towards being more confident in not only those matters (how heavy something is, will this balance on that, can I stack these things without having everything fall over, where to stand in a hallway so everyone else doesn't rightfully want/tell me to get the fuck out the way), but ones in the close periphery, including some of which falls within the parameters of "force"... there's a shit ton of causal links from "Se" to "force", and each one adds more static to the picture...
How is photojournalism intense?
It's all about chasing the perfect shots to tell the story, and if you miss those shots, most of the time there are no second chances. You witness the entire spectrum of human emotion on assignments. You need to quickly orient yourself in confusing situations you're thrown into and keep a cool head in chaos. Sure, a lot of it is little league games and town meetings, but the intense and exciting events make it worthwhile. I'm not a photojournalist anymore, though; I just was in college.
Ne = internal statics of objects
The problem with descriptions like those below is that they're, by nature, a bit off-the-mark. When the foundation itself is a bit shaky, the layers on top of it will be even more askew, and that's when shit gets confusing...
attributable to all sorts of shit, though I would want to steer it a bit to PeOriginally Posted by Wikisocion
definitely leans NeOriginally Posted by Wikisocion
very Ti/Fe colored here, if not outright dominatedOriginally Posted by Wikisocion
if "brainstorming" is what is being implied, then yes, I'd give it to NeOriginally Posted by Wikisocion
can't make a call for anything here; the implications for "curiosity" do steer me to Ne a bit, but still...Originally Posted by Wikisocion
It's less of an issue of you making sense or not and more of an issue of how you made sense and how you didn't make sense. "Jungian hammerspace", "Dr. Freud", "space cadet"; all very vivid descriptions of the statics of an object. I'm hard-pressed to find any way in which the physical attributes of either a space cadet or Freud himself are relevant to the point you were aiming at, and I'm hard-pressed to find any physical attributes aka external statics of a hammerspace, a thing that by nature does not make sense in that regard. With Se all but eliminated from the Pe pool, what remains is Ne...
It's less of an issue of how well you get along and more of an issue of how you get along.
I get on good with SEIs in general, but we do wear each other out a bit... still remember when the Fe-SEI girl actually ducked and covered her ears because I was so damn loud hahahahhaa...
I had an Ne-LII buddy ages and ages ago, and I did lots of Magic: the Gathering with Alphas. Once again, we got on nice, but it was clear that we were up to entirely different things (a huge advantage to me in Magic actually, the intentional sloppiness of my strategies consistently threw them off their game, and I bluffed my ass off)...
the Ne keeps on coming in
I recall an Si-SLI writing out rationale like that, though instead of "photographer", she used "restaurant", and went about things in a similar manner. The "restaurant" was some sort of... thing... that produced food via its own volition, not a brick, steel, and glass building which happened to have ovens, workers, and food in it, the last of which is seen to completion by the efforts of the first two. Internal statics of objects...
so far, I think you did a good job...
If you're to go by Ne = opportunity, then let's not only count this too, but count a certain song by someone I'm hellbent on securing as Delta ST...
and here comes the Fe
here's a musical counterpart to your sig pic:
I'm almost certain by now that you are all of the same quadra yayyy
p . . . a . . . n . . . d . . . o . . . r . . . a
trad metalz | (more coming)
Ne sees qualities of objects, in the form of patterns sometimes. It perceives these qualities.
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
i dont think she is ni type
Hey, thanks a lot for the breakdown of the Ne descriptions. I find it tough to understand a lot of Socionics because, as you said, the base definitions can be off or confusing. I'm having trouble finding a good explanation of what Ni is anywhere, for example. I really think I value it because I focus a lot on how things will play out over time, imagination/metaphor, the hidden implications underlying the surface world, etc., but with no good description to go by, I could be oblivious to my valuing a completely different function set as suggested by those who type me Alpha.
Re: Jungian hammerspace; is a void not a physical entity? I see your point, though. However, I tend to associate Ne with a sort of randomness, and sometimes even see it as pretty inane.It's less of an issue of you making sense or not and more of an issue of how you made sense and how you didn't make sense. "Jungian hammerspace", "Dr. Freud", "space cadet"; all very vivid descriptions of the statics of an object. I'm hard-pressed to find any way in which the physical attributes of either a space cadet or Freud himself are relevant to the point you were aiming at, and I'm hard-pressed to find any physical attributes aka external statics of a hammerspace, a thing that by nature does not make sense in that regard. With Se all but eliminated from the Pe pool, what remains is Ne...
My relationships with the two SEEs whose type I am sure of are similar. They talk a lot about their lives, the people they know and their feelings toward them, and I am happy to listen and offer insight when needed ("you do know that [this is going to happen] if you [do that], right?"), though they don't listen very well when I talk about myself. We agree on a lot of things, and they wake me up/energize me with their enthusiasm and "go-getter" attitude. They are also pretty hilarious at times.It's less of an issue of how well you get along and more of an issue of how you get along.
I get on good with SEIs in general, but we do wear each other out a bit... still remember when the Fe-SEI girl actually ducked and covered her ears because I was so damn loud hahahahhaa...
I had an Ne-LII buddy ages and ages ago, and I did lots of Magic: the Gathering with Alphas. Once again, we got on nice, but it was clear that we were up to entirely different things (a huge advantage to me in Magic actually, the intentional sloppiness of my strategies consistently threw them off their game, and I bluffed my ass off)...
MtG and the like do attract a shit-ton of Alphas, huh? Never got big into it, but I did play a bit with my IEI ex and current ILE guy, as well as assorted Alphas at a party. That's cool that you used your different approach to your advantage. I'm pretty decent at reading bluffs
Ahaha, <3 Ween.here's a musical counterpart to your sig pic:
-Ween vid-
My ILE guy and I, you mean? The Alphas I know still seem too different from me for me to settle on that quadra; feels like jamming a square peg into a round hole type-deal. I'm open to the possibility that this is enneatype-related, though.I'm almost certain by now that you are all of the same quadra yayyy
Se sees qualities of objects, too, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Please, tell me how you use your Ni as an IEI; it'd help me to understand why you think I don't value it.
The friend I feel most similar to is my IEI ex/first boyfriend; I have never met anyone else with whom I've shared so many interests, behaviors and thought processes. We each ended up taking turns playing the SLE in that relationship, and it drove us both nuts; two Victim types together turned into lots of pushing apart and difficulty in pushing closer to each other, like what happens when you shove two magnets with the same charge together. At one point, he said he felt like we'd become the same person and had nothing left to talk about (identity relation, much?). Imagine two mirrors facing each other, creating an endless, disorienting reflection, and you'll have a decent picture of my experience with that relationship.Originally Posted by WikiSocion
-old picture, so drunk!-
That relationship only stayed exciting as long as we learned new things and told each other about them/tried them together. Even our major fights/breakdowns had an Ni-rhythm to them; they sprung up in a six-month cycle, right on the dot. Eventually, it wasn't worth the effort to keep trying to entertain each other with new info and we broke up, though we still chat and focus on sharing new things we've discovered and swapping stories. There is an unspoken sense of understanding between us.
Last edited by PistolShrimp; 04-09-2012 at 07:06 PM.
I still think you could be a Ne ego.
Yeah, same here. Mainly Alpha NT.
I don't think I'm autistic enough to join the Alpha NT party. Seriously though, I really couldn't stomach dating an SEI or ESE; the caregiving style irritates/smothers me after a while because I take care of my physical and emotional needs well on my own, and I don't seek Si/Fe help in my life. Also, I am fairly sure I am a dynamic type and IP temperament, as well as enneatype 4. The thought of an Alpha NT Four is ridiculous...If I am LII, I am a serious freakshow of one because it just doesn't make sense given my interactions with and feelings toward other types. And I KNOW I'm not IEE/ILE, because I don't have an identity or comparative relationship with my ILE guy. My relationship with my IEI ex fits identity relation descriptions pretty much to a T.
I know you guys are just trying to help and I appreciate the input, but I'm not NT anything; I'm just a nerd.
Stop buying into the autism train, LOL. Not type related.
Yea real autistic...Originally Posted by LII Beskova
Originally Posted by ILE BeskovaObviously a real autist...
ILE's are charming and LII's are gallant, having problems with relationships and dealing with relationships is nothing to do with social capabilities, charm, etc. Also from what I've observed, ILE/LII are perfectly capable if not some of the best types at dealing with physical/personal issues on their own, at least to a level of independence(not necessarily happiness). I would say that SLE/ILE are the types I've found not inclined to ask people for help in personal situations, this is due to their lack of trust in others in matters. If you're not inclined to trust people, why would you rely on others? These types like XEI's who are often very accommodating, attractive, kind, diplomatic without being super judgmental, but it's not like a XLE expects a XEI to support them in life.
Anyways, ESE/SEI are not really smothering. I know a few EIE/EII who are smothering with their children, because they act out a caregiver role which they are not suited for, overdoing something and under-doing others.
Mystery - PistolShrimp the Great - Behold!
None shall be able to foretell the day or hour when it is revealed... Maybe she should take a few socionics tests?
Socionics -
the16types.info
All aboard the autism train! Chooo chooo~!
Yeah I know it's NTR, I'm just poking fun. Alpha NTs are awesome.
I'm just going by my experience with ESE/SEI types and my feelings toward them; the ones I know do feel smothering to me, but one is my mom and one is my boyfriend's mom for what it's worth. I'm pretty sure I'm not Fe-seeking, though; in fact, I'm often the one covering my ILE guy's ass when he says something that makes the mood weird. I'm quite aware of my own and others' emotions. I'm sure you're going to find some way to tell me this doesn't mean I'm not Fe-seeking. I get along too well with my SLE dad to be LII.ILE's are charming and LII's are gallant, having problems with relationships and dealing with relationships is nothing to do with social capabilities, charm, etc. Also from what I've observed, ILE/LII are perfectly capable if not some of the best types at dealing with physical/personal issues on their own, at least to a level of independence(not necessarily happiness). I would say that SLE/ILE are the types I've found not inclined to ask people for help in personal situations, this is due to their lack of trust in others in matters. If you're not inclined to trust people, why would you rely on others? These types like XEI's who are often very accommodating, attractive, kind, diplomatic without being super judgmental, but it's not like a XLE expects a XEI to support them in life.
Anyways, ESE/SEI are not really smothering. I know a few EIE/EII who are smothering with their children, because they act out a caregiver role which they are not suited for, overdoing something and under-doing others.
Just $5 to watch Shrimp the Girl juggle puppies and knives in the meantime!
I've taken Socionics tests before, but the funny thing about the tests is once you know enough about Socionics you can test as whatever you want. They become kinda useless after a while, I'd think. I could try again, though. Is the Sociotype one any good?
Yeah I think I am just going to settle with IEI-Ni for now; this thread is going nowhere, though it has helped me to clear up some misconceptions of Socionics and different types thanks to the help of all the lovely forum members who've posted in here.
------
Sociotype test result (extended test with VI portion):
Your Sociotype: IEI-0 (INFp)
Brief Description of the IEI
Using introverted intuition as her base function and extroverted feeling as his creative, the IEI lives in a world of vivid imagery and imagination. Like the SEI, the IEI is a very creative type and is often seen channelling this creativity towards artistic pursuits such as music. However the two types' creativities diverge with the SEI's creativities channeled towards more tangible creations and the IEI's channeled towards more intangible creations--e.g., the creation of imaginary worlds or stories. The IEI is acutely attuned to the effect these creations can have on people's emotional state, and it is not uncommon for these creations to have a strong emotional impact on people. At her best, the IEI provides deep and meaningful insight into events and trends--particularly those involving human interaction. At her worst, the IEI can become lost in her imagination and lackadaisical. Overall, the IEI's depth of imagination and emotion often goes unidentified by those around her, and this is perpetuated by the IEI's disinterest in broadcasting these traits.
Other Possible Types
EIE (ENFj): 64% as likely as IEI.
SEI (ISFp): 63% as likely as IEI.
ILI (INTp): 62% as likely as IEI.
Function Strength
Fe- 38%
Fi- 38%
Ni- 37%
Ne- 37%
Si- 13%
Se- 13%
Ti- 12%
Te- 12%
So...
Well, well, well.
You're from the northeast US.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Wow, I am amazed that you had to go through 6 pages of disagreements before someone told you that you were an IEI. It's as plain as the nose on your face (well, actually you have a nice nose).
I don't understand why people think that anyone into nerd culture MUST be an Alpha.
Right, an Ni lead, we have the typical lazy, sleepy look in the eyes of someone who spends a lot of time in their head. The arms dart out into a movement before quickly returning to a protective central position, hands clasping. Typical Delicate movement and probably an Ni lead.
Communication is subtle but warm, emotions lighting up the face easily and genuinely but mildly outreaching to the viewer rather than clinging to personal feelings. However it's mild, not pushy, rousing or overpowering. This suggests Creative Fe.
Further evidence from what you say: Imaginative, creative, liking art and expressive pursuits, liking nerd culture etc. You remain with one thing before than moving on. Your thoughts are 'chaotic and nebulous', they are like a whirlpool that you can get trapped in and you need physical stimulation to snap out of it. Sounds like Ni Lead, Se Suggestive to me.
Weak Te shows up when you talk about the camera and you turn round the whole camera rather than being able to manipulate the device.
What you say later in the thread about your boyfriend becoming irritating with his childishness shows your dissatisfaction with Ne when you are in fact Se seeking.
All in all, a pretty solid IEI.