MBTI INFJ, Socionics WTF?

[Saberstorm]

Whose judgment about your true worth would you trust the least?

Option A) A man whose mind is like a tornado of ideas - ideas that he seems to have no technical skill to implement himself, that he truly seeks to make a part of reality by taking charge, (by calling all the shots) to make it happen. He seems to be unable to just hang out, he is constantly assessing how well you fit his agenda. Anything that he knows, he seems to assert that he is the true authority on, and is quick to correct you in front of others, but strangely he is less prone to correcting you when you are one on one, thus you think he wants to embarrass you.

Option B) A woman who refuses to follow the rules. In fact, she is defiant about restrictions. What she desires, she SHALL obtain. She demands that which is exclusive, and she SHALL obtain it, such as money, high rank or prestige. She instantly senses when others are defiant to her, and responds in kind. But strangely, she seems to understand exactly how other people feel and can demonstrate an amazing range of commentary emotions to match their subconscious needs - therefore allowing her total control of others. From this many people openly love her. You stand in her shadow and she loves that she has outshined you.

Who do you hate more? Why? Which one of these psychopaths would make you more neurotic if you had to spend time with them? Who can you block out of your mind easier?

[PistolShrimp]

Whose judgment about your true worth would you trust the least?

Option A) A man whose mind is like a tornado of ideas - ideas that he seems to have no technical skill to implement himself, that he truly seeks to make a part of reality by taking charge, (by calling all the shots) to make it happen. He seems to be unable to just hang out, he is constantly assessing how well you fit his agenda. Anything that he knows, he seems to assert that he is the true authority on, and is quick to correct you in front of others, but strangely he is less prone to correcting you when you are one on one, thus you think he wants to embarrass you.

Option B) A woman who refuses to follow the rules. In fact, she is defiant about restrictions. What she desires, she SHALL obtain. She demands that which is exclusive, and she SHALL obtain it, such as money, high rank or prestige. She instantly senses when others are defiant to her, and responds in kind. But strangely, she seems to understand exactly how other people feel and can demonstrate an amazing range of commentary emotions to match their subconscious needs - therefore allowing her total control of others. From this many people openly love her. You stand in her shadow and she loves that she has outshined you.

Who do you hate more? Why? Which one of these psychopaths would make you more neurotic if you had to spend time with them? Who can you block out of your mind easier?

Are you trying to figure out who my conflictor would be to determine my type? Clever idea!

I have trouble imagining how I would react to either of those people...I'm sure both would bother me if I had to spend a lot of time with them. Emotional manipulation really pisses me off and I immediately balk when I sense it, but I'm also not a fan of getting embarrassed in front of others re: my knowledge of something. I think I would need to experience these interactions IRL in order to answer you properly, however my gut is that Lady B would be easier to get along with and Mister A would drive me nuts with the constant correction and inability to relax. I like to be around people who can chill; when I was in a relationship with someone who couldn't, I felt so anxious all the time and hated it. I also wouldn't really enjoy the feeling of being monitored in regards to how I fit an agenda. I have friends like Lady B and can get along with them relatively peacefully, but will never be close with them.

[PistolShrimp]

You're welcome.

Not necessarily. Functions interact with each other, so you will rarely find a comletely Ti statement in ones speech, normally - in LIIs' case, you are bound to find Ne/Si elements as well in their speech.

As for your last sentence, I believe you're thinking in the realm of Te + Ni. Uncertain or cautious? In any case, you're capable of making decisions, even for a group, by your own admission.

I'm capable of making decisions for groups, but I only go for it when no one else is stepping up to the plate. I would say I'm more cautious in the sense that I want to make sure I'm right before claiming something so I don't look like an idiot.

[mu4]

I think you're a Ne ego of some sort, still think you're a extratim. Still think ILE or IEE works, why do you think you're introtim. You talk in a extratim fashion, comparing yourself with others and even observing yourself from a outsider perspective.

You talk about your interests alot as well as give examples. For example:

Thank you for the interesting example! I've found myself swept up into groups before to the point where I found my views so strongly warped by the group that I could not think objectively. For example, I followed around a bunch of Anonymous Scientology protestors for a photojournalism story assignment, but ended up getting so wrapped up in their views and chants that I wouldn't shut up about the dangers/stupidity of Scientology for weeks after, when previously I thought very little about Scientology. I snapped out if it eventually, and felt pretty embarrassed.

I feel like I can't really analyze things from a detached, cool standpoint very well; my emotions heat things up and stir my thoughts. I do tend to analyze everything and anything, but I can be very easily swayed by people who I perceive as knowing more than I do about a subject. If something feels off, I'll research a topic until I can confidently think for myself about it. I have a tendency to over-think instead of draw a conclusion and move on, and I get anxious or depressed when I'm alone with my thoughts for too long. I think I feel most at peace when photographing, reading, listening to music, writing, drawing, napping, etc. Perhaps LII types tend to feel/act this way. I feel too in tune with my body, the needs of others and the "emotional barometer" of an environment to fit the LII descriptions, and too nerdy, awkward, provocative and analytical to fit the SEI ones...

I am going to guess almost nobody in this thread knows how you feel about things, but rather they have a pretty good picture of you externally, your interests, actions, hobbies, etc, however they probably don't have much information concerning your subjective world. This is because the information you have related to people has been of a objective sort, and not really related to your internal subjective world.

The only question I have for you really is why do you think you're introtim? Because introversion isn't really a social thing in socionics, and Ne extratim are the most introverted socially of the extraverts. You have said you're ok with making decisions for groups and planning things for others, so this is already one sign that you might be a extratim.

[PistolShrimp]

I think you're a Ne ego of some sort, still think you're a extratim. Still think ILE or IEE works, why do you think you're introtim. You talk in a extratim fashion, comparing yourself with others and even observing yourself from a outsider perspective.

You talk about your interests alot as well as give examples. For example:

I am going to guess almost nobody in this thread knows how you feel about things, but rather they have a pretty good picture of you externally, your interests, actions, hobbies, etc, however they probably don't have much information concerning your subjective world. This is because the information you have related to people has been of a objective sort, and not really related to your internal subjective world.

The only question I have for you really is why do you think you're introtim? Because introversion isn't really a social thing in socionics, and Ne extratim are the most introverted socially of the extraverts. You have said you're ok with making decisions for groups and planning things for others, so this is already one sign that you might be a extratim.

Hmmm well my bf is definitely ILE and I'm quite different from him. I see dominant Ne as bouncy, chaotic, random, yet interesting...I'm not like that. I'm also definitely not Fi ego. I gave more objective information because that's what I thought would be most helpful in typing me. What sort of subjective information would help more?

Also, is introversion at all related to energy levels in Socionics? Because I am very laid-back and low-energy, while my guy is high-energy. I have a calming effect on him.

I think I'm an introtim because I live in my own head. I spend a lot of time introspecting, journaling, etc. I focus a lot on my reactions to things, how things make me feel, what they remind me of or make me think of. My locus of control is internal.

[mu4]

Hmmm well my bf is definitely ILE and I'm quite different from him. I see dominant Ne as bouncy, chaotic, random, yet interesting...I'm not like that. I'm also definitely not Fi ego. I gave more objective information because that's what I thought would be most helpful in typing me. What sort of subjective information would help more?

Also, is introversion at all related to energy levels in Socionics? Because I am very laid-back and low-energy, while my guy is high-energy. I have a calming effect on him.

I think I'm an introtim because I live in my own head. I spend a lot of time introspecting, journaling, etc. I focus a lot on my reactions to things, how things make me feel, what they remind me of or make me think of. My locus of control is internal.

Living in your own head is more a intuitive thing rather then introversion.

As far as the other things would you say you focus more on the thing or the feeling?

We all are concerned about our reactions, how to react, but reactions are once again a objective or at least observable sort of thing. I think introversion and extroversion are related to energy levels but I wouldn't say that comparing yourself with your BF is a good way to measure energy levels. Since you could both be extratim and have differing energy levels.

As far as locus of control, I don't think I understand what you mean by that or if it's relevant to introtim/etc. Someone that believes God is controlling them or the devil is speaking to them or believe that their inner voice is someone else is generally schizophrenic and often can be intratim.

[PistolShrimp]

Living in your own head is more a intuitive thing rather then introversion.

As far as the other things would you say you focus more on the thing or the feeling?

We all are concerned about our reactions, how to react, but reactions are once again a objective or at least observable sort of thing. I think introversion and extroversion are related to energy levels but I wouldn't say that comparing yourself with your BF is a good way to measure energy levels. Since you could both be extratim and have differing energy levels.

As far as locus of control, I don't think I understand what you mean by that or if it's relevant to introtim/etc. Someone that believes God is controlling them or the devil is speaking to them or believe that their inner voice is someone else is generally schizophrenic and often can be intratim.

I think I focus more on the feelings things give me than the things themselves. I see a river glistening in the sunlight and I focus on the calm and peace I feel over anything else. I can easily sense when the mood suddenly gets heavy when I'm with others because I feel it acutely. One of the problems I had when shooting photojournalism assignments was that I'd get so caught up in the event I was shooting and the energy surrounding it that I had trouble focusing on getting the job done.

As far as energy levels, I remember people jokingly calling me a stoner in grade school because I was so spacey/sleepy and laid-back. I also gain energy from alone time, and am drained when around big groups for too long.

By internal locus of control I mean ultimately I am in control of my own happiness.

I can see why you'd say I'm extratim, and I appreciate the input. I'll give it some more thought. I'm not really sure what subjective info will help in typing me, though.

[mu4]

I think I focus more on the feelings things give me than the things themselves. I see a river glistening in the sunlight and I focus on the calm and peace I feel over anything else. I can easily sense when the mood suddenly gets heavy when I'm with others because I feel it acutely. One of the problems I had when shooting photojournalism assignments was that I'd get so caught up in the event I was shooting and the energy surrounding it that I had trouble focusing on getting the job done.

As far as energy levels, I remember people jokingly calling me a stoner in grade school because I was so spacey/sleepy and laid-back. I also gain energy from alone time, and am drained when around big groups for too long.

As far as functions and ego functions and what they mean, it's a lot about communication and preference and not just processing. People process all forms of information, but only communicate and prefer a limited spectrum of information in communication. This is why people have misunderstandings/information conflict/etc. You feel heavy emotional atmosphere acutely but why is that? Do you proactively lighten the atmosphere? As far as everything else, it doesn't mean too much. I think EP's kinda of sit back and watch until they see the opportunity then they strike very quickly. EP's can be active/loud or quiet/calm but the quality they all have is they can mobilize in extreme situations very quickly.

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Temperament

By internal locus of control I mean ultimately I am in control of my own happiness.

I can see why you'd say I'm extratim, and I appreciate the input. I'll give it some more thought. I'm not really sure what subjective info will help in typing me, though.

Why do you think subjective info will not help? Imo often it matters not as much what kind of info you give, but rather how you present that information and what you think is relevant is indicative of how you see the world. You don't really even have to talk about yourself to display information preference, because ultimately these preferences will be visible in one's creative self expression.

[noid]

Why you consider you are not an Fi ego ? You leave me a Fi impression, for example when you say

I focus a lot on my reactions to things, how things make me feel, what they remind me of or make me think of. My locus of control is internal.

for example.However Im not fully decided beetween delta or alpha ; some gamma ALPHA SF stay a possibility (not T imo), even if you should not eliminate EII-Ne or IEE-Fi.

[PistolShrimp]

As far as functions and ego functions and what they mean, it's a lot about communication and preference and not just processing. People process all forms of information, but only communicate and prefer a limited spectrum of information in communication. This is why people have misunderstandings/information conflict/etc. You feel heavy emotional atmosphere acutely but why is that? Do you proactively lighten the atmosphere? As far as everything else, it doesn't mean too much. I think EP's kinda of sit back and watch until they see the opportunity then they strike very quickly. EP's can be active/loud or quiet/calm but the quality they all have is they can mobilize in extreme situations very quickly.

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Temperament

Why do you think subjective info will not help? Imo often it matters not as much what kind of info you give, but rather how you present that information and what you think is relevant is indicative of how you see the world. You don't really even have to talk about yourself to display information preference, because ultimately these preferences will be visible in one's creative self expression.

Alright, that's a helpful distinction; I don't do well under a ton of pressure, and need time to collect myself before acting.

As for heavy moods, they make me uncomfortable and I feel the need to lighten them using my insights into what caused them, though I'm not sure I'm particularly good at it. Usually I can tell if someone is tired and crabby, just having a bad day, depressed, meant to say something else, etc. when they start fighting or acting odd. I try to point out what I see is going on and negotiate a middle ground when appropriate. If I can't do anything, I'll remove myself from the situation, or back down if I'm involved in an argument that gets too heated.

I am either IJ or IP temperment according to that link, not EP; I'm not fidgety unless I'm nervous and my energy level stays at a fairly constant low. I think I see reality as slowly changing, pointing to IP, but I'm not entirely sure what they mean by "reality." Some of this stuff is so vague it seems like anyone who reads it can have a different interpretation of it.

It's not that I think subjective info won't help, it's that I'm not quite sure what subjective info would be. My thoughts/opinions on something? How I experience certain things? I posted my creative expression (photography) but apparently that wasn't particularly helpful in determining my type.

Why you consider you are not an Fi ego ? You leave me a Fi impression, for example when you say for example.However Im not fully decided between delta or alpha ; some gamma SF stay a possibility (not T imo), even if you should not eliminate EII-Ne or IEE-Fi.

I don't see Fi because I think I value Ti way more than Te; I don't particularly care about efficiency in anything. Also I am dating a Fi PoLR guy and find some of the completely offensive things he says hilarious more than anything; he hasn't ever flat-out offended me. I have a base friend who can rattle off these huge lists of what she loves and hates and her ability to do this boggles my mind, as I'd struggle to come up with a similar list. I tend to describe things more in terms of what interests me and what doesn't than in terms of what I love and hate, I think.

Honestly though, I'm not sure of ANY of my preferences right now aside from probably, so your guess is as good as mine. In all of the reading about Socionics I've done so far, very little has jumped out about any type and made me think "That's me!"

[Saberstorm]

You are not LII. The man is option A is an LIE. You would find him to be your conflictor if you are a SEI, and supervisor if you are a IEI. Both of these can be stressful. Thus, you are a SEI/IEI.

Of the two, I think you are an SEI, because of the way you feed your boyfriend's need to express his curiousity and creativity. Your Ne, that hkkmr keeps noticing, is your Dual Seeking. You want to give people with Ne a place to be appreciated. You therefore give vauge hints of stimulating Ne thoughts, as a sweet nector for the Ne butterfly you love to drink from. You are receptive to Ne, you need the Ne to be inside you, so you chirp forth a little Ne as signal that you want more of it.

SEI it is!

[noid]

rectification :

some gamma SF stay a possibility (not T imo)

I was meaning alpha SF obviously.

I still think you are one of those NF delta (creative DCHN), your Ne seem too high to be HA or dual seeking imo. And 6wX, and mbti INFJ...

Whatever is your type, its not uncommon imo to not find self into description, even type description. When MBTI self type revelation are often seen as groundreaking, Socionic is more dry and cold, focused on logic, models and theory. thats an alpha things after all . For example, I wasnt have many doubt about my INFPness into mbti due to strong identification with the type description (wich describe often a INFj-Ne); but I get strong doubt when enter the Socionic... EII, SLI, IEE-Fi, IEI ? The way they describe type (wikisocion) not allow to self type mainly with self reflection like in MBTI.

[PistolShrimp]

You are not LII. The man is option A is an LIE. You would find him to be your conflictor if you are a SEI, and supervisor if you are a IEI. Both of these can be stressful. Thus, you are a SEI/IEI.

Of the two, I think you are an SEI, because of the way you feed your boyfriend's need to express his curiousity and creativity. Your Ne, that hkkmr keeps noticing, is your Dual Seeking. You want to give people with Ne a place to be appreciated. You therefore give vauge hints of stimulating Ne thoughts, as a sweet nector for the Ne butterfly you love to drink from. You are receptive to Ne, you need the Ne to be inside you, so you chirp forth a little Ne as signal that you want more of it.

SEI it is!

See, that's the problem. I can't quite tell if I feed his Ne because I want more of his, or because I'm exercising my own normal tendency to use Ne.

rectification :


I was meaning alpha SF obviously.

I still think you are one of those NF delta (creative DCHN), your Ne seem too high to be HA or dual seeking imo. And 6wX, and mbti INFJ...

Whatever is your type, its not uncommon imo to not find self into description, even type description. When MBTI self type revelation are often seen as groundreaking, Socionic is more dry and cold, focused on logic, models and theory. thats an alpha things after all . For example, I wasnt have many doubt about my INFPness into mbti due to strong identification with the type description (wich describe often a INFj-Ne); but I get strong doubt when enter the Socionic... EII, SLI, IEE-Fi, IEI ? The way they describe type (wikisocion) not allow to self type mainly with self reflection like in MBTI.

I can see why you'd say I'm NF delta, but my main issue with that typing is that I'm positive that I'm in neither a Comparative or Supervisory relationship with my ILE boyfriend (I am sure of his type). I do agree that my Ne might be too high for me to be a sensing type, but I'm not Ne-base because my main focus is not on potentiality; it's on something else that I can't quite put my finger on...I also can't see myself as Te or Si dual-seeking, because I would likely find a base Te type too rigid in their thoughts, and I seem to have little issue with taking care of Si needs both for myself and my boyfriend without help.

[fen]

I really don't think finding your type through comparing relationships is reliable.
I think one of the easiest ways is to identify your Hidden Agenda, or mobilizing function.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-hidden-agenda
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...dden_agenda.22

If you are not overly concerned with potentials, that makes Ne-ego kinda fall to the wayside, especially since you do not think you seek Si.
The one INFJ(MBTI) I know in real life is some sort of Beta, if this is helpful.

Regardless of your boyfriend's type, what quadra do you think you belong in?

[PistolShrimp]

I really don't think finding your type through comparing relationships is reliable.
I think one of the easiest ways is to identify your Hidden Agenda, or mobilizing function.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-hidden-agenda
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...dden_agenda.22

If you are not overly concerned with potentials, that makes Ne-ego kinda fall to the wayside, especially since you do not think you seek Si.
The one INFJ(MBTI) I know in real life is some sort of Beta, if this is helpful.

Regardless of your boyfriend's type, what quadra do you think you belong in?

Yeah, I doubt it's super-reliable but I feel like I'm grasping at straws with this typing business, haha.

As far as Hidden Agenda goes, it's hard for me to tell. I could be either or .

I used to get called a "know-it-all" or "smartass" a lot because I always thought I was right; I remember telling my grandmother "Don't dispute me!" when I was like ten years old and arguing with her. I've gotten better since then and can usually see other viewpoints and admit when I'm wrong, but sometimes the stubbornness returns if I know I'm right about something.

I wasn't particularly concerned with my health until I got sick a few years ago and have been dealing with the illness since then (not super serious but annoying enough to disrupt daily life). It's hard for me to tell if my health focus is due to hidden agenda because I have legitimate health problems. I also don't try to show off my madd housekeeping skillz, yo, but I do try to make sure my boyfriend and I are well-fed and comfy.

I think I belong in Alpha or possibly Beta quadra (INFp? But I don't see so much in me so probably not). Gamma is a definite no-go, and Delta is a very slim chance (INFj is the only thing I could potentially see, and I doubt that too). I need a Quadra Sorting Hat.

[fen]

Haha, yes, a quadra sorting hat would make matters a bit easier.

Well, Hidden Agenda is consistent with SEI.
I really understand the Hidden Agenda and health concerns. I didn't really think I cared much until I had chronic problems of my own..and now I'm really paranoid about it. :/ But...I do things like make a point to show my dad (SLI) how clean my room is when he comes to visit me at school, and things like that. Heh. I'm still iffy on my type but I think EII fits..and with that comes Hidden Agenda. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I know what you mean by not being sure if you're concerned with -related things because of health problems you have.
Anyway. Hehe.

What makes you uncertain of LII? What makes you uncertain of SEI?
Are you certain you are an introtim?

[noid]

.I also can't see myself as Te or Si dual-seeking, because I would likely find a base Te type too rigid in their thoughts, and I seem to have little issue with taking care of Si needs both for myself and my boyfriend without help.

Haha ! Thats what I was directly thinking when seeing the relationship theory too. Ive hard time to detach myself for this impression too. For having beeing able to identify some LSE after that, I cant say they are especially rigid, even if some can be. Its just that their Fi need some recalibration

[mu4]

Alright, that's a helpful distinction; I don't do well under a ton of pressure, and need time to collect myself before acting.

I would say internally during extreme situations, EP's remain more calm and collected, although they might appear like a flurry of activity, there is not a conscious pressure or stress. It's more in extreme situations EP can behave at their best and are not under pressure, where as in a lot of trivial situations, there is stress and a lot of pressure.

Ne-EP's probably feel the most pressure in everyday situations which is why their duals are caregiver IP's.

As for heavy moods, they make me uncomfortable and I feel the need to lighten them using my insights into what caused them, though I'm not sure I'm particularly good at it. Usually I can tell if someone is tired and crabby, just having a bad day, depressed, meant to say something else, etc. when they start fighting or acting odd. I try to point out what I see is going on and negotiate a middle ground when appropriate. If I can't do anything, I'll remove myself from the situation, or back down if I'm involved in an argument that gets too heated.

I am either IJ or IP temperment according to that link, not EP; I'm not fidgety unless I'm nervous and my energy level stays at a fairly constant low. I think I see reality as slowly changing, pointing to IP, but I'm not entirely sure what they mean by "reality." Some of this stuff is so vague it seems like anyone who reads it can have a different interpretation of it.

I think you're pretty fidgety and animated, your video show a lot of gesticulations and you more or less stop, think and then start and move when talking. And you do this more or less for 30 minutes, without really any serious deviation.

Doesn't mean anything conclusively, but it may show you're not as aware of your bodily movement.

[PistolShrimp]

Haha, yes, a quadra sorting hat would make matters a bit easier.

Well, Hidden Agenda is consistent with SEI.
I really understand the Hidden Agenda and health concerns. I didn't really think I cared much until I had chronic problems of my own..and now I'm really paranoid about it. :/ But...I do things like make a point to show my dad (SLI) how clean my room is when he comes to visit me at school, and things like that. Heh. I'm still iffy on my type but I think EII fits..and with that comes Hidden Agenda. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I know what you mean by not being sure if you're concerned with -related things because of health problems you have.
Anyway. Hehe.

What makes you uncertain of LII? What makes you uncertain of SEI?
Are you certain you are an introtim?

Sorry to hear you're dealing with illness as well; durn health problems making things all tricky-like. D:< That's interesting that you were still able to determine hidden agenda despite them. Personally, I don't care about showing off my clean room or anything like that, as I care more about the state of my room than anyone else ever will, but I do try to get those around me to eat better, especially my guy who tends to neglect eating in general when he's wrapped up in something and gets headaches and nausea from low blood sugar.

I'm uncertain of LII because I don't feel particularly detached and logical, and am not sure how strong and infallible my own logic is. I'm confused as to how all of the logical ordering and systematizing mentioned re: LIIs would manifest in a person instead of in theory. I'm also not sure I can recognize dual-seeking in me, but perhaps I'm confused about my own use of .

I don't think I'm SEI because...uhhh...well I'm not sure. Perhaps because I think I'm an intuitive ego type of some sort? I am definitely big into aesthetics, art, comfort and pleasure, and that would suggest SEI, but I feel like I live in my head far too much to truly be one. SEI seems like the type to be enjoying life as it comes and not mulling everything over like I do. It's weird, though. Perhaps the fact that I compare myself to concrete examples of types in my life (people I know) and seek to see how the functions manifest in a real person instead of just trying to understand abstract theory points toward sensing. Also, I minored in philosophy in college (LII stronghold?), but I cared more about philosophy related to concrete things (art, aesthetics, war and peace) than the purely abstract stuff. I hated higher-level math because I couldn't see a practical use for it in everyday life. I might be more of a big-picture thinking intuitive, but I'm not sure how to determine this outside of the fact that I tend to generalize when speaking before diving into detailed examples.

I read through this page, and think I can tentatively rule out extratim types. I liven up when people pay attention to me, when I'm with familiar friends or family, like when others try to involve me in things, am a good listener, stable low-energy, like to limit responsibilities, have difficulty making new contacts, etc., all pointing toward introtim.

Anyway, thank you so much for the helpful questions.

Haha ! Thats what I was directly thinking when seeing the relationship theory too. Ive hard time to detach myself for this impression too. For having beeing able to identify some LSE after that, I cant say they are especially rigid, even if some can be. Its just that their Fi need some recalibration

Heh I'll keep that in mind, thanks! I still don't see myself as an ego, though. My main focus is not on right/wrong, like/dislike, ethics or the like. Those things definitely matter to me to some extent, but I wouldn't say they are a driving force in my personality.

I would say internally during extreme situations, EP's remain more calm and collected, although they might appear like a flurry of activity, there is not a conscious pressure or stress. It's more in extreme situations EP can behave at their best and are not under pressure, where as in a lot of trivial situations, there is stress and a lot of pressure.

Ne-EP's probably feel the most pressure in everyday situations which is why their duals are caregiver IP's.

I think you're pretty fidgety and animated, your video show a lot of gesticulations and you more or less stop, think and then start and move when talking. And you do this more or less for 30 minutes, without really any serious deviation.

Doesn't mean anything conclusively, but it may show you're not as aware of your bodily movement.

I do much better in trivial situations than extreme ones. I can feel the energy ramp up when things get extreme, and I get too confused and shaken to act properly. I usually freeze and often ask someone else for help if I can when things get tough.

I admire Ne-EPs if they feel the most pressure, then, as they seem to be quite optimistic despite it.

I was definitely fidgety but I was pretty nervous actually. I also could be animated due to -creative, couldn't I? My gestures are second nature, and help me express myself more effectively than words can alone; I definitely talk with my hands, haha. You should see how riled-up and animated I get when talking about something I'm passionate about, such as nutrition. My dad is always entertained when I rant about things like organic junk food and Monsanto while food-shopping with him.

Also, see above reply to fenryrr; fairly certain I'm an introtim now, even more than before. I really appreciate your perspective, though, as you're certainly far more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am, and the points you made helped me to see myself more objectively. Introtim seems like the better fit for me, though.

[mu4]

What's your enneagram type, image triad?

Maybe I'm just mistaking image triad for E observations. If you're I then probably SEI/EII > IEI. I don't really see base.

[PistolShrimp]

What's your enneagram type, image triad?

Maybe I'm just mistaking image triad for E observations. If you're I then probably SEI/EII > IEI. I don't really see base.

Enneagram confuses me, too. I know I'm sx/sp variant of whatever I am. I know I'm not 3, 5, 7, or 8, but all the rest are kind of up in the air. I could very well be an image type because my image and approval of others is very important to me, and of the three image types, 4 seems most likely. I know I am 6 in the head triad, and probably 9 in the gut. Wings are probably 4w5, 6w7, and 9w1.

[Beautiful sky]

I think it's too much unsortable info and causes confusion. Maybe things overlap and are contradictory.

[PistolShrimp]

So I'm trying to narrow things down by dichotomies as given here: http://www.socionics.us/theory/dichotomies.shtml

Extraversion/Introversion- Definite introvert, no question. This is the one dichotomy I am 100% sure of.

Rational/Irrational- I like stability, but am drawn to unpredictable people and situations because predictable ones get boring after a while. It takes a while for me to get going on something; I tend to do things at the last minute, but I have no problem relaxing when they're done. I do tend to multitask by bouncing from one project or activity to the other, but I find completing a project the most satisfying. I can be moody, but I get over my moods fairly quickly. I take naps or go for walks when I feel anxious or sad instead of trying to rationalize or figure out my feelings. My emotions and thoughts are usually fairly nebulous. I find it difficult to predict what will happen in a given situation so I keep all possibilities I can imagine in mind and prepare myself for them. I like environments with a little bit of structure, not a ton but just something to give me a base to act on; too much structure is restricting. I'd say I'm probably irrational over rational, but the margin seems slim.

Intuitive/Sensing- This is tough for me to determine. I am aware of my body, my state of health, pain, my fives senses, comfort, and details. I was very physical as a kid, always playing outside in the dirt and rocks, looking at bugs and stuff, doing origami and arts and crafts. I tend to notice details other people don't but also generalize a lot. I like playing with ideas, but focus on the ones that can become reality or have some bearing on real life. I'm not sure I understand what a "mental representation of reality" is, or if I operate based on one. I love puns and make plays on words back and forth quickly with my ILE guy. I'm always deliberately touching pastries and cookies at the bakery I work at (with gloves on of course!), running my fingers along walls and chain fences and grass etc. because I love different tactile sensations. I'm also prone to daydreaming, spacing out, and getting lost in vague thoughts. I feel too grounded and practical to be intuitive but too spacey to be sensing.

Logic/Ethics- Ethical sounds more like me. My focus is on people, I am animated and expressive, I like persuading people, and tend to be easily persuaded by what I see as logical arguments. How something is said is very important to me, as well, and I am good at reading others emotions. People often vent their emotions to me and ask for advice, which I like to give. However, I can also pick out flaws in others' logic fairly easily, and usually in my own if I take the time to think about it.

[Leader]

What you're saying does add up to X-S-F-P, although that wouldn't necessarily mean you're that type. Makes sense though.

[silke]

From your posts it sounds like you are very likely a dynamic type. You frequently describe your own actions or actions of those around around. This means IP type like SEI/IEI > any IJ or EP type like LII or ILE for you. There is more info on static/dynamic differences here, see if you can confirm this for yourself.

... Because I am very laid-back and low-energy, while my guy is high-energy. I have a calming effect on him.

That calming effect hints that you guys are most likely in dual or mirage relations with respect to each other. It kind of goes like this: activity - over stimulation, duality - just enough stimulation and relaxation, mirage - over relaxation

[PistolShrimp]

What you're saying does add up to X-S-F-P, although that wouldn't necessarily mean you're that type. Makes sense though.

Uhhhhh I mean thanks for the input!

From your posts it sounds like you are very likely a dynamic type. You frequently describe your own actions or actions of those around around. This means IP type like SEI/IEI > any IJ or EP type like LII or ILE for you. There is more info on static/dynamic differences here, see if you can confirm this for yourself.


That calming effect hints that you guys are most likely in dual or mirage relations with respect to each other. It kind of goes like this: activity - over stimulation, duality - just enough stimulation and relaxation, mirage - over relaxation

Thanks for the info! The static vs. dynamic stuff is interesting but it's hard for me to tell. I think that I use versions of "to be" a lot, but I thought that most people do that. I also use a lot of action verbs, so I'm confused. I do tend to speak in terms of "we" regarding events I experienced with multiple people, and describe the atmosphere of the event and actions of the other people. Could the fact that I have trouble distinguishing between dichotomies and see everything as blurred together and related to other things point to dynamic? I think I enjoy static types as friends and lovers because they give me direction and stability; my ex was definitely dynamic and that relationship lacked an anchor, while my ILE guy is way more stable and constant with his actions and moods.

I know for some of the other dichotomies I am merry, negativist, and democratic (probably). I've read mixed opinions of using Reinin dichotomies for typing so I'm not sure how valuable this information is, though.

As far as relationship types go, I could see duality, mirage, or mirror. We tend to spend more time relaxing than working on projects or going out, but that is probably because of my fatigue from health issues more than anything. The problem with declaring our relationship a mirage type is I can't really see myself as IEI because descriptions are so vague, and I'm not sure I'm seeking.

[noid]

The possibility to be a SEI increase, as you appear perhaps too merry to be delta.
Its somewhat strange you end up INFJ and have enneagram type 6 in other system, thought.
Have you read the 9 or 2 description ?

[PistolShrimp]

The possibility to be a SEI increase, as you appear perhaps too merry to be delta.
Its somewhat strange you end up INFJ and have enneagram type 6 in other system, thought.
Have you read the 9 or 2 description ?

I think I may have typed as INFJ because I misunderstood Ni as a function due to vague descriptions, also I was in an unhealthy relationship with an INFJ at the time too.

I looked into enneagram some more and found my tritype to be 4w5-6w7-9w1; not sure the order of the types though. I am not a 2; I love helping people, have lead volunteer projects and all that, but I'm not as selfless as a 2 when it comes to putting my own needs aside, and don't feel the need to help constantly. I could very well be a 9 that has disintegrated into a 6 under stress, though; this paragraph from the Enneagram Institute 9 description sounds just like me:

We have sometimes called the Nine the crown of the Enneagram because it is at the top of the symbol and because it seems to include the whole of it. Nines can have the strength of Eights, the sense of fun and adventure of Sevens, the dutifulness of Sixes, the intellectualism of Fives, the creativity of Fours, the attractiveness of Threes, the generosity of Twos, and the idealism of Ones. However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity.

That also sounds like type 4, but I'm not sure I'm as in touch with my emotions or that I care as much about "being myself" as fours do. Still, I could see type 4, as I've always felt different or odd in some way. Not sure type 4 SEI makes sense, though.

[Absurd]

I think it's too much unsortable info and causes confusion. Maybe things overlap and are contradictory.

And in English?

Oh and, type her Maritsa. I really need an opinion.

[PistolShrimp]

And in English?

Oh and, type her Maritsa. I really need an opinion.

Please don't egg her on in here, thanks.

---

I was just reading the article about forms of cognition here because I'd seen people mentioning the holographic communication style and had no idea what that was. In the Dialectical-Algorithmic section, the author describes Heraclitus' saying that "you cannot enter the same river twice" as the embodiment of the Dynamic type. I mentioned that that quote resonated with me earlier in this thread, long before having read this article. I guess I'm Dynamic, then?

As far as Dialectical-Algorithmic vs. Vortical-Synergistic, the two dynamic cognition types, I relate to D-A a bit more. I'm a definite negativist despite my best efforts not to be, readily spot and try to resolve contradictions, and see the opposites always at play in the world. You can't fully experience true happiness without experiencing a contrasting sadness, peace without anxiety, light without dark, etc. However, I don't really identify with the "coming to faith" bit; I went to Catholic school for 12 years and became an atheist with some spiritual beliefs. I think everything and everyone is connected in some vague way, and that life and human history are more cyclical than linear. I don't buy the "watchmaker" argument, that the existence of objects that appear intelligently designed implies the existence of a designer, and I think chaos and free will play a huge part in human life. I also believe that people are fated to be slaves to their biological and cultural programming unless they become aware of it. My beliefs are more in line with absurdism in that the meaning of life is what you make of it; no inherent meaning exists.

Is any of this relevant to cognitive style?

[silke]

Thanks for the info! The static vs. dynamic stuff is interesting but it's hard for me to tell. I think that I use versions of "to be" a lot, but I thought that most people do that. I also use a lot of action verbs, so I'm confused. I do tend to speak in terms of "we" regarding events I experienced with multiple people, and describe the atmosphere of the event and actions of the other people.

It takes some practice to tell between the two. You'd have to compare samples of your writing to samples of someone of a static type, then the differences will start to manifest.

Could the fact that I have trouble distinguishing between dichotomies and see everything as blurred together and related to other things point to dynamic? I think I enjoy static types as friends and lovers because they give me direction and stability; my ex was definitely dynamic and that relationship lacked an anchor, while my ILE guy is way more stable and constant with his actions and moods.

IP types are more prone to synthetic thinking, IJ types - to analytical, so what you're saying is more evidence in favor of an IP typing.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm proud of you, PistolShrimp, for not using your perception to keep adapting to others or the type which you are in MBTI and transferring meaning to Socionics. I'm very proud to say that you're a very mature ISFp and one who uses the correct methods of arriving to a type rather than just adapting to what others say. You know Ip's can be very adaptive and malleable mentally for having that perceptive ability and sometimes it goes so far as to adapt to such an extent where the self identification is lost and the Ip all it does is keep adapting. It's like someone who can go along with any situation but instead chooses to find, by the analytic method, their own self.

[PistolShrimp]

It takes some practice to tell between the two. You'd have to compare samples of your writing to samples of someone of a static type, then the differences will start to manifest.


IP types are more prone to synthetic thinking, IJ types - to analytical, so what you're saying is more evidence in favor of an IP typing.

Alright, thanks! I'll check out some posts by static types, too. Here is a conversation I had with my boyfriend on Facebook messenger today; he is a static type, so my interaction with him will probably give a clearer picture:

ILE:
[link to forum post about the trend of strong sexy women in video games and other media] interesting didn't have time to read though

jk I think it is retarded

but what do you think about the roles of women in games and how they are portrayed

Me:
wowwww there are a lot of butthurt misogynists on that forum!

women are objectified in games like they are in many other areas; their sexual appeal and utility take the forefront, and these
"empowered" women are a unique brand of sexy in their strength. also, almost any attempt to portray females in media like movies and
video games is very often met with criticism from different groups. she's too whiny/weak/clueless/domineering/strong/intelligent/girly/dykey
etc...

i think a lot of men have set expectations, both conscious and subconscious, of what women should be like, and when characters don't
meet these expectations they disapprove of them. those men in the forum have issues with the trend in gaming it seems because they see it
as women impinging on some sacred man cave of theirs.

i think the trend is a good one but implemented in a sloppy way, like affirmative action. "let's put more caricatures of strong women in games
to make up for years of horribly whiny princesses that always needed saving and hand-holding!" it seems forced and awkward.

personally, i think Jill Valentine in RE1 is a great example of how to do a strong female protagonist RIGHT in gaming, but they've sexualized her too in later games
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...tinedevice.jpg

what do you think?

ILE:
fapfapfapfap

It is tough because I think feminine sexuality is a unique and valuable thing to represent. Really what is should come down to is personal preference
of the woman. You can act how you want.

I think there is an awkward gap that is really hard to describe between the mass display of hyped up sexuality in women and a completely gender
neutral woman. Is it misrepresentation, is it guiding them the wrong way, is it disrespectful disregard? What is often stems from is rather an often
subconscious attraction and admiration towards aspects of females. I think just calling all men that, say, inadvertently fantasize about a woman passing
in attractive clothing are wrong and bad in doing so. Of course there are blatant examples of "precision features" (ugh it feels odd saying that) that are
egregious and inspire disgust. For example, ads of very skinny women.

One example I actually feel is nicely done in a level form is Motoko from Ghost in the Shell. While initially you might say "oh she wears some wacky tight
clothing and jumps around", I think it is just freedom of license for a futuristic society. Also one could argue that it is a distraction for her foes.

I would say it is a losing battle trying to fight off all gender stereotypes, but there probably should be better education in recognizing them. (most kids
figure this out at the boys trucks girls dolls stage hopefully, in which they can freely decide).

I could talk about feminism all day probably

Me:
*eyeroll @ fapping*

Re: your justification of Motoko's outfit. Her character itself is interesting and well-done, yes, but I see the outfit as fanservice with a cyberpunk aesthetic
and think it's a bit disingenuous to say otherwise. Whatever, artistic license and all that. You can definitely interpret the choice in clothing however you want;
that's part of the problem in discussing this topic.

I think the more subtle aspects of feminine sexuality get short shrift in the media in favor of the more in-your-face easily accessible and marketable kind.
Feminine sexuality is incredibly dynamic and complex, but the media tends to turn it into a static caricature by focusing on the simple physical, visible aspects of
it- sexy clothes, nice tits/ass, etc. Where's the subtlety? Is it good to promote such one-dimensional role models of female sexuality?

As you know, the stereotypes run far deeper than trucks vs. dolls, though I always chose the Hot Wheels with my Happy Meal. Education leading to awareness
would help, but how would it be implemented successfully and fairly?

I really like talking about this stuff with you

ILE:
Yeah I feel people poorly execute examples for various reasons. For example, they might be conveying a different level of sexuality and it isn't the main purpose of
the piece. Actors and actresses may also portray it foolishly or improperly because sexuality has makes people judge in a hefty manner. For example if you show one time
a girl hooking up with a guy, a large audience will call her a slut...while others will think it is normal.

Additionally, sexuality is used as a hook to lure in an audience. For example you will say, oh a hot girl, I'll check this out...and it leads to something more complex and
interesting.

I'm proud of you, PistolShrimp, for not using your perception to keep adapting to others or the type which you are in MBTI and transferring meaning to Socionics. I'm very proud to say that you're a very mature ISFp and one who uses the correct methods of arriving to a type rather than just adapting to what others say. You know Ip's can be very adaptive and malleable mentally for having that perceptive ability and sometimes it goes so far as to adapt to such an extent where the self identification is lost and the Ip all it does is keep adapting. It's like someone who can go along with any situation but instead chooses to find, by the analytic method, their own self.

Whatever type I am, I am certainly malleable. I think this flexibility is compounded by my enneatype, as I'd guess 9 sx is especially prone to strongly desire merging with others by adapting himself or herself to others' needs. Still not positive on the ISFp typing as I see my relationship as more mirage than duality due to how much time we spend lazing around vs. doing stuff, and I'm not sure I'm / vs yet. Thank you for your input, though!

[Ryan]

Was he fapping at your input?

Keeping everything you have said before about him in mind, I'm almost certain that he is an IEE.

[noid]

Agree ! the ILE is an IEE, its what I see too.

[PistolShrimp]

Was he fapping at your input?

Keeping everything you have said before about him in mind, I'm almost certain that he is an IEE.

LOL, he was joke-fapping at the sexy Jill Valentine picture I linked to.

I can see why you'd say IEE due to our conversation, but I see him as Fi-PoLR way more than I do Fi-creative. His jokes and comments would offend a lot of people if he didn't censor himself. He also studied computer science, management and math in college, and repairs robots for a living, which is way more NT > NF as far as career choices go. He doesn't have the Fi focus on close relationships, and doesn't particularly care about helping others through their feelings.

This is what his Fi-PoLR looks like:

"I'm kind of awkward around support in emotional hard times because, you guessed it *KAZOO* I CONFRONT IT WITH HUMOR. Which means, oh your grandfather died? What did he do? Oh I see, he was a barber. Life sure didn't CUT him slack. I literally am spending time sitting here thinking about other funny puns but I really can't come up with any and I don't feel like spending time to. lol fuck. point proven. PEOPLE DO NOT RESPOND WELL TO THIS. (I usually hold my tongue and snicker inside at funerals)"

Agree ! the ILE is an IEE, its what I see too.

[img]frog[/img]

Bahaha, Foul Bachelor Frog.

Here is another quote from him that should help to disprove IEE:

"If I saw a man hit a woman in a bar, and did nothing to react besides leave the bar, what does that say about me? One could conclude that I am a coward, that I am evasive or that I am wise for avoiding conflict and potential harm. I could also be thought of as passive or an existentialist. I could even be seen as courageous depending on my exit as if I was going to return with someone of stature that could punish that person. Or I could be thought of as agreeing with violence against women. I could go on longer but I am just listing many examples to demonstrate through one rather simple action, on purpose or inadvertent, many such conclusions can be drawn about my person. And then the question is posed, what if I upon leaving I had no intent other than the subconscious and abrupt urge to leave at that time? For little or no defined reason at all?

That is why I don't like to base truths on conclusions. Really then though what do we have? At some level, yes conclusions are accurate enough to be truth or serve a point. I tend to lean away from emotional conclusions however because I find them to be shaky if you don't effectively know a person well (and even then...)."

[PistolShrimp]

Here is some shit I wrote about my job a few months ago. Looking at it now, I'm not sure what function is my strongest, but I think I see here...

Sometimes at work, I distract myself from the occasional urge to snort lines of powdered sugar after folding paper
boxes for four hours straight by working on a list of categories that bakery customers fall into. This is what I've
come up with so far. Let the pigeonholing begin!


Bakery Customer Taxonomy

The Native

Short, elderly and unmistakably Italian. Will ask for a pastry with an incomprehensible Italian name in order to test
the mettle of new bakery employees, who will either live up to the challenge by bullshitting magnificently or run
crying for help to the bakery manager.

Catch phrase: "Any Sfogliatelle today?"

The Old Faithful

Invariably elderly and male. May be large and bearded or small and bespectacled. Orders fruit-filled breakfast
pastry at approximately 99.9% frequency.

Catch phrase: "Are those fig squares?"


The Expectant Mother

Orders six pastries (all chocolate) and rubs bulging belly in an exaggerated manner as if to justify her purchase.

Catch phrase: "This is a bad place to be when you're pregnant!"


The Mother

Evolves from The Expectant Mother. Accompanied by one or more toddlers who proceed to inhale all of the free
sample cookies and press their faces and hands all over the recently-washed glass pastry cases. Gets each child
several cupcakes, half-moons and/or M&M cookies. Often seen attempting to juggle a newborn in one arm and five
boxes of pastries in the other.

Catch phrase: "Get down from there, Bobby!"


The Husband/The Boyfriend

Often a proxy for The Expectant Mother or The Mother. Enters bakery with a look of sheer panic on his face at six o' clock
at night. Buys a cake and asks bakery employee to write "Happy Birthday" or "Happy Anniversary" on it, searches for a
greeting card while he waits, then proceeds to the flower shop next door.

Catch phrase: "Thanks, you're a lifesaver!"


The Fresh Prince/The Fresh Princess

Easily identified by an obsession with pastry quality and freshness, coupled with a complete lack of comprehension about
the frequency of pastry production. Often complains to apathetic bakery employees about a stale pastry he or she bought
weeks ago.

Catch phrase: "Was this bread pudding made today?"


The Joker

When asked what they would like, The Joker always answers "I'll have one of everything," causing bakery employees to force
awkward chuckles and pretend that they haven't heard that one a hundred times before.

Alternative catch phrase: "Do you have anything low-carb?"


The Artist

Orders an impossibly complex or weird cake that the bakery employee must first clear with the cake decorator or else face her wrath.

Catch phrase: "I'd like a marble cake with whipped cream frosting, lemon and yellow creme filling, chocolate shavings on the top and nuts
on the side, and a drawing of the Eiffel Tower in pink frosting on the top, please."


The Chocolate Mousse Cake Addict

Typically middle-aged and Indian. Almost always orders chocolate mousse cake, and appears disappointed when the cake case
contains none. Often gets hopes up upon seeing chocolate cake with fudge frosting in the case, only to face further disappointment
when told that it contains no mousse. Will on occasion order whipped cream cake with pineapple filling instead.

Catch phrase: "What type of cake is this?"


The Walking Heart Attack

Weighs 300 lbs or more. Appears uncomfortable upon entering the bakery section. Orders large lobster tail or
four cannolis then looks side-to-side with shifty eyes before leaving.

Catch phrase: "I really shouldn't eat this..."


The Hunter

Enters bakery on a mission, with head held low, muscles tensed and eyes focused on the pastry cases as he
or she prowls from one end to the other. Completely oblivious to eye contact and offers of help unless desired
pastry is not found.

Catch phrase: "Do you have any cannolis? I don't see them in the case."


The Lurker

Polar opposite of The Hunter. Wanders the bakery aimlessly, taking free sample cookies while waiting for a
sandwich from the deli. Alternatively, the Lurker makes a quick run into the bakery, causing bakery employees
to stop whatever they're doing to help, and then disappears without a trace before the employees can say a word.
Often a Flip-Flopper in disguise.

Catch phrase: "I'm just looking."


The Flip-Flopper

Perpetually indecisive and often talking on the phone. Will order five pastries, then change order to ten, then back to five
again, then back to ten, forcing bakery employees to fold several boxes or attempt to Tetris ten messy pastries into a box
meant for five. Their catch phrase "I'll just pick and choose as I go along" strikes a potent mixture of frustration and fear in
the hearts of bakery employees.

Alternative catch phrase: "I'm not sure what I want. Could you tell me what this is? And this? And this? And this?"


The Pizzeria Regina/ The Papa Gino

Female or male, though the Pizzeria Regina is far more common. Appears to own his or her own pizzeria, or to be secretly
feeding a small Italian army.

Catch phrase: "Can I have five pounds of pizza dough?"


The Dyscalculia Sufferer

Either blissfully unaware that "a couple" typically means "two," or completely incapable of counting. Close relative
to the Flip-Flopper.

Catch phrase: "I'll have a couple of pastries- maybe fifteen or so."


The Bread Winners/The Bread Losers

Separated only by their success in their sole goal of purchasing bread, the Bread Winners and Losers are constantly at odds.
The Winners have learned to strategically call in a bread order ahead of time, while the Losers have yet to realize that there will
probably be no more fresh scali bread or dinner rolls left at 6:30 on a Saturday night.

Winners catch phrase: "I'm picking up two round breads sliced, under Bruno."

Losers catch phrase: "Do you have any more rolls out back?"

[Absurd]

That's a fine book you wrote - what's the title?

[PistolShrimp]

That's a fine book you wrote - what's the title?

I call it Overqualified: How to Stay Sane While Using Your College Degree as Toilet Paper.

[noid]

Excellent ! You seem awesome .