Lana Del Rey

[Sol]

ISFP(?)

Seems more IEI-y than SEI-y. Less concrete and aware of herself and the world.

she looks too primitive for INFP

[ashlesha]

Primitive?

[Introspector]

Her whole @^%$# interview is about Fi. Retards...

i agree She's like Fi oozing out the ass. i cant even pick up on anything else.

kinda looks like drew barrymore
She's more natural in some of these




i think ESFp is a good typing

[InvisibleJim]

The plot thickens.

I always thought ESI was appropriate, but sure, why not SEE?

[Introspector]

EP>IJ temperament imo

[InvisibleJim]

i agree She's like Fi oozing out the ass. i cant even pick up on anything else.

EP>IJ temperament imo

For science!

[Introspector]

For science!

1st was a respond to the interviews

2nd from vids i posted

[MrMoney]

She's a chameleon. A poser. A lump of clay. Typing her is a waste of time. You will only be able to type whatever persona Big $ (unfortunately not me in this case) has suggested that she projects for maximum profit.

[bolong]

Every kinda quite female is NOT A GODDAMN IEI

[some chair]

Yeah, to be an IEI you have to have a distant look in your eyes and elaborate makeup.



Stars are a bonus and clear indicator.

[HERO]

ISFP(?)



she looks too primitive for INFP

Primitive?

- “Primitive melodies” like my Aunt once wrote.



‘Remember how we used to party up all night/Sneaking out, looking for a taste of real life/Drinking in the small town firelight/(Pabst Blue Ribbon on ice)/Sweet 16[types] and we had arrived/Walking down the streets as they whistle, “Hi, hi!"/Stealin' police cars with the senior guys/Teachers said we'd never make it out alive/There [he] was my new best friend . . . swayin' in the wind/While [he] starts to cry, [crocodile tears fallin' from his] Bambi eyes: "[HERO], how I hate those guys."/This is what makes us [homosexuals]/We [don't] look for heaven and we put love first/Somethin' that we'd die for, it's our curse/Don't cry about it, don't cry about it/This is what makes us [gays]/We don't stick together 'cause we put love first/Don't cry about him, don't cry about him/It's all gonna happen/And that's where the beginning of the end begun/Everybody knew that we had too much fun/We were skippin' school and drinkin' on the job (With the boss)/Sweet 16[types] and we had arrived/Baby's table dancin' at the local dive/Cheerin’ our names in the pink spotlight/Drinkin' cherry schnapps in the velvet night/Yo we used to go break in/To the hotel, glimmer and we’d swim/Runnin' from the cops . . . Screaming, "Get us while we're hot. [Ban] us while we're hot." (Come on take a shot)/This is what makes us [beta f*****s]/We all look for heaven and we put love first/Somethin' that we'd die for, it's our curse/Don't cry about it, don't cry about it/This is what makes us [freaks]/We don't stick together 'cause [we’re fucking weak]/Don't cry about him, don't cry about him/It's all gonna happen/The prettiest in crowd that you had ever seen/Ribbons in our hair and our eyes gleamed mean/A freshmen generation of degenerate [creepy] beauty queens/And you know something?/They were [not] the only friends I ever had/We got into trouble and when stuff got bad/I got sent away, I was waving on the train platform/Crying 'cause I know I'm never comin' back./This is what makes us [narcissistic, selfish, hypocritical, and self-centered]/We all look for heaven and we put [our] love first/Somethin' that we'd die for, it's our curse/Don't cry about it, don't cry about it/This is what makes us [self-defeating sociopaths]/We don't stick together 'cause we put love first/Don't cry about him, don't cry about him/It's all gonna happen . . .’



“ . . . I love you forever, not maybe/You are my one true love . . .”



“Kiss me hard before you go/Summertime sadness/I just wanted you to know/That, baby, you're the best . . . Oh, my God, I feel it in the air/Telephone wires above are sizzling like a snare/Honey, I'm on fire, I feel it everywhere/Nothing scares me anymore . . . I've got that summertime, summertime sadness . . . I'm feelin' electric tonight/Cruising down the coast goin' 'bout 99/Got my bad baby by my heavenly side/I know if I go, I'll die happy tonight . . . I think I'll miss you forever/Like the stars miss the sun in the morning sky . . .”



[Music video spoken introduction:]

I was in the winter of my life, and the men I met along the road were my only summer.

At night I fell asleep with visions of myself, dancing and laughing and crying with them.

Three years down the line of being on an endless world tour, and my memories of them were the only things that

sustained me, and my only real happy times.

I was a singer—not a very popular one,

I once had dreams of becoming a beautiful poet, but upon an unfortunate series of events saw those dreams dashed

and divided like a million stars in the night sky that I wished on over and over again, sparkling and broken.

But I didn't really mind because I knew that it takes getting everything you ever wanted, and then losing it to know

what true freedom is.

When the people I used to know found out what I had been doing, how I'd been living, they asked me why—but

there's no use in talking to people who have a home.

They have no idea what it's like to seek safety in other people—for home to be wherever you lie your head.

I was always an unusual girl.

My mother told me I had a chameleon soul, no moral compass pointing due north, no fixed personality; just an inner

indecisiveness that was as wide and as wavering as the ocean...

And if I said I didn't plan for it to turn out this way I'd be lying...

Because I was born to be the other woman.

Who belonged to no one, who belonged to everyone.

Who had nothing, who wanted everything, with a fire for every experience and an obsession for freedom that

terrified me to the point that I couldn't even talk about it, and pushed me to a nomadic point of madness that both

dazzled and dizzied me.


I've been out on that open road
You can be my full time daddy,
White and gold
Singing blues has been getting old
You can be my full time baby,
Hot or cold

Don't break me down
I've been travellin' too long
I've been trying too hard
With one pretty song

I hear the birds on the summer breeze,
I drive fast, I am alone in the night
Been tryin' hard not to get into trouble,
but I, I've got a war in my mind
So, I just ride, just ride,
I just ride, just ride

Dying young and playing hard
That's the way my father made his life an art
Drink all day and we talk 'til dark
That's the way the road dogs do it – ride 'til dark.

Don't leave me now
Don't say good bye
Don't turn around
Leave me high and dry

I hear the birds on the summer breeze,
I drive fast, I am alone at midnight
Been tryin' hard not to get into trouble,
but I, I've got a war in my mind
I just ride, just ride,
I just ride, just ride

I'm tired of feeling like I'm fucking crazy
I'm tired of driving 'til I see stars in my eyes
It's all I've got to keep myself sane, baby
So I just ride, I just ride

I hear the birds on the summer breeze,
I drive fast, I am alone in the night
Been tryin' hard not to get into trouble,
but I, I've got a war in my mind
I just ride, just ride,
I just ride, I just ride

[Music video spoken ending:]
Every night I used to pray that I’d find my people, and finally I did on the open road.
We had nothing to lose, nothing to gain, nothing we desired anymore, except to make our lives into a work of art.
Live fast. Die young. Be wild. And have fun.
I believe in the country America used to be.
I believe in the person I want to become.
I believe in the freedom of the open road.
And my motto is the same as ever:
"I believe in the kindness of strangers. And when I’m at war with myself I ride, I just ride."
Who are you?


- Robert Christgau:

Born to Die [Polydor, 2012]
Convincing and occasionally compelling proof that money can't buy happiness ("Video Games," "This Is What Makes Us Girls") *

You know, I hadn't considered ILI but it actually makes a lot of sense... (I was seeing Ni-IEI) before, but there's a certain... "blankness" from her that I haven't been able to put my finger on. (And I say that from an Fe-person perspective and not at all as a value judgement.)

This was my first thread on the 16types (regarding my sociotype/VI/pictures):

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ciotype-thanks

Here’s how some people responded:

Fe PoLR? idk really though, just guessing since you've got like one facial expression for everything.

I was thinking that too.

I'd say: SLI

I get devalued Si and weak ethics.
ILI maybe.

Maybe ILI.

I guessed ILI before checking what others said, so that seems about right.

XXTj would be my guess but i really don't know

Yeah Fe polr seems obvious here. No chance of SLI, just not in the body language. So ILI it is.

I call SLI as well. (mayyybe ILI). I almost said IEE though so i'm leaning SLI.

You might coincidentally be MBTI ISTP and socionics ISTp, nothing out of the question there. . .The two typing systems dont depend on each other.

Yes, you are NOT ILI; I'm thinking either LSE or SLI; how do you maintain and manage your living environment?

I'm w works: I think you look SLI, maybe ILI.

I vote SLI, though, for two reasons: 1 - the phrasing of your thread title reminds me of something an SLI friend of mine would have written, and 2 - your username is "lazybones"

ILI > SLI

You don't have the physically relaxed vibe that SLIs have. The way you stand is a bit awkward and unnatural.

ILI or more distantly, LII.

ILI, logical subtype.

Dude looks as fuck. And Introverted. Likely ISXp, with a slim possibility of INXj. I'd look more, but it was too much for me.

ILI is also my impression, you give off that deeply introspective, detached Ni matched with Fe PoLR type of demeanor

I really doubt you're ILI. You look too much like your username, aka some beast.

- originally posted by “he died with a felafel”: I think Ni-base. I thought Ip temperament in general is kinda perceived as "lazy", although that's not the way i'd put it - energy-conserving seems a better phrase (as i think it's been used in temperament descriptions too). cheers

Oh yes, I agree that IP temperament generally comes off in this way. But INXps never immediately strike me in this way personally (even when its someone who I know is lazy). Because in spite of being 'energy-conserving' types (I also prefer this phrase), they nevertheless exude particular qualities inherent to all Decisive quadra types.

Right now I lean SLI > SEI for you. If SEI turns out later to be the case, I won't be surprised.

You know what, now that I think about it you do remind me of a friend of mine who I think is Si valuing. All slovenly, and like oh oh I am so comfortable wah wah. GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER LEBOWSKI!

The sheer degree of doubt in your comments makes me think of ILI.

lazybones - I'd say you are ISTp, not E.

Introvert, primary involved function. SEI or SLI would be my first guesses.

I took a re-look at the pics -- i totally forgot i posted in this thread -- and with my newly acquired understanding of VI in the past 2 months as i continually refine knowledge of socionics, I retract my previous typing of SLI. You have a perfect example of a dynamic Ni gaze. So yeah, ILI or IEI. I still think you look sort of Fe-POLR-ish though, so i'm leaning ILI.

as far as you saying you have doubts about being in an Fi-valuing quadra... What is your understanding of Fi vs Fe? I know it took me a while to really understand it.

So if seventeen people, at one point in time, thought I might be Fe-PoLR and/or Si-valuing and/or a Thinking type based on the way I look(ed) . . . then I honestly don’t think we should jump to conclusions regarding Lana Del Rey’s type based solely on her appearance, facial expressions, the way she looks, etc.

I’ve once read that IEI’s often and/or sometimes have a stoned or drugged appearance/expression. And there are Beta NF’s (especially IEI’s, yet also EIE-Ni’s as well) that hardly ever smile. [On a somewhat unrelated note, the last time I tried marijuana (smoked pot) was on July, 2012.]

I’m not sure how relevant this is, but it’s also something to consider:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...248-on-beta-Fe

I think it may be a characteristic of the Beta quadra - even the ethical types - to focus on, or value, their Ti so much that they don't really identify with Fe. Perhaps because Fe is described too often in an Alpha, "touchy-feely", way that they don't see in themselves. In a broad-brush way, Alpha's Fe helps them to "reflect and delight in", Beta's Fe helps them "to conquer".

essentially the key point here is that these beta NFs ARE exhibiting Fe, but in a passive, Ni-oriented sense rather than in an alpha sense.

Here’s more of my mentally/socially challenged raving lunacy from my original thread:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ciotype-thanks

I should probably add that I recently finished reading Vladimir Nabokov's novel Lolita, and I ended up liking it more than I thought I would. Of course the subject matter is in many ways disturbing/pathological; yet at the same time the heart of the story--the emotions, the humanity, and all the other elements that make it an interesting tragicomic work of art/literature--possesses a universal resonance, or at least one that certain types or people might be more likely to be affected by.

That just sounded like something vaguely along the lines that strrrng would say lol. But you don't know him yet.

Well I'd see types like Eminem and Marilyn Manson (perhaps not as much now) as revealing/exposing the shadow (negative side) of our society ["The Sibling Society"]: consumerism, power (hence no love), magical thinking, racism/prejudice, emotional blindness, emotional self-alienation [dissociation], hypocrisy, etc.

I'm really impressed with your post.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

She's an ESI. She's more interested in the beauty of the music than any lofty message. She is Fe-ignoring... smiles out of politeness but her eyes show a more severe (Se) personal affect of Fi, this disjoint between the eyes and the smile is characteristic of Fi Ego types.

I've heard people say ILI but when she is with her fans she is genuinely warm, simply suggesting that Fe is strong when allowed by leading Fi.

[Zero11]

She executes mobilizing cuteness (like Kendra Wilkinson "SLE" or Katie Banks "ILE) which creates a faked impression.

Her nervous face is also an Indicator for leading Intuition.

my guess is ENTp / ILE ()

my guess? Dafuq I am totally sure she is Fe is defenitely in her Super-Id Block and it is more prevalent as in Betsy Brandt who is LII with Suggestive Fe.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

She executes mobilizing cuteness (like Kendra Wilkinson "SLE" or Katie Banks "ILE) which creates a faked impression.

Her nervous face is also an Indicator for leading Intuition.

my guess is ENTp / ILE ()

my guess? Dafuq I am totally sure she is Fe is defenitely in her Super-Id Block and it is more prevalent as in Betsy Brandt who is LII with Suggestive Fe.

Fe mobilising really doesn't come off that way.... for SLEs and ILEs it's more that they try to pass on big/happy emotions to others in without the finesse of an EIE or ESE (with risk of it backfiring).

This is an ILE engaging in his Mobilisng Fe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ImSbixBsOk He couldn't be more different from Lana who responds terribly to similar attempts by the interviewer in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHnNIgDWxx8
I would not say that Lana is trying to increase the positive emotivity and failing, rather is begrudgingly conforming to it. I also wouldn't put her as nervous in these videos, just restrained and a bit stiff. The interviewing situations clearly clash with her overtly Gamma values and that is what is showing in her disapproving Fi eyes.

Since when is a nervous face indicative of leading Intuition? Introverted Intution can give the person a sense of doubt but it doesn't cause a nervous face. 4D Ni, when Ni is very strong and Se very weak, as seen with any type that is Introverted and Intuitive, leads to Delicate movement which makes them physically nervous (not quite able to confront the forceful, physical world) but I wouldn't say Lana even has that. Her manner of sitting and the movement of her body shows a certain amount of physical security albeit Controlled and restrained... 4D Si and IJ temperament (seen in LSIs and ESIs).

[Zero11]

Fe mobilising really doesn't come off that way.... for SLEs and ILEs it's more that they try to pass on big/happy emotions to others in without the finesse of an EIE or ESE (with risk of it backfiring).

This is an ILE engaging in his Mobilisng Fe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ImSbixBsOk

That IEI who holds a comedic monologue yeah sure your mobilizing Fe is just an assumption.

I would not say that Lana is trying to increase the positive emotivity and failing, rather is begrudgingly conforming to it. I also wouldn't put her as nervous in these videos, just restrained and a bit stiff.

Thats what I meant kind of_ the wording doesn´t really matter

The interviewing situations clearly clash with her overtly Gamma values and that is what is showing in her disapproving Fi eyes.

Disapproving Eyes? What Disapproving Eyes?

Since when is a nervous face indicative of leading Intuition?

That is a compensation for suggestive Sensation.

Introverted Intution can give the person a sense of doubt but it doesn't cause a nervous face.

As written above

4D Ni, when Ni is very strong and Se very weak, as seen with any type that is Introverted and Intuitive, leads to Delicate movement which makes them physically nervous but I wouldn't say Lana even does that. Her manner of sitting and the movement of her body shows a certain amount of physical security albeit Controlled and restrained... 4D Si and IJ temperament (seen in LSIs and ESIs).

Or just simple Extraversion

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

That IEI who holds a comedic monologue yeah sure your mobilizing Fe is just an assumption.



Thats what I meant kind of_ the wording doesn´t really matter



Disapproving Eyes? What Disapproving Eyes?



That is a compensation for suggestive Sensation.



As written above



Or just simple Extraversion

Andy Samberg is an ILE, a proper ILE... here's another ILE using mobilising Fe... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcJohfS4vTQ


If that's what you meant then you wouldn't be putting Fe in the Super Id but the Id.

If you look at the eyes, you'll see a disjoint between the emotions she is feeling and the emotions she is displaying. It's not a lack of emotion but an emotion that is different to the one being portrayed. In the case of the video I posted, she is feeling a negative emotion but displaying a positive one.. that is the cause of this feeling of fakeness. It's half-hearted Id Block Fe.

Suggestive Introverted Sensation? That leads to Clumsiness, not nervousness. The ILE can be too bold at times without the self-control to prevent mistakes from being made.

No, Extroversion does not lead to nervousness or physical security (that's a pretty counter-intuitive assertion). Extroversion leads to an expansive mindset, a willingness to take on more, even biting off more than a person can chew.

[Zero11]

Andy Samberg is an ILE, a proper ILE... here's another ILE using mobilising Fe... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcJohfS4vTQ

A proper Typed non-read ILE maybe. Stereotypical, Frameworktypical an ILE but when you put a Type onto a person and search for commonalities you automatically skew your analysis.

If that's what you meant then you wouldn't be putting Fe in the Super Id but the Id.

No it would give off a more ugly quality than or it would completely fade away.

If you look at the eyes, you'll see a disjoint between the emotions she is feeling and the emotions she is displaying. It's not a lack of emotion but an emotion that is different to the one being portrayed. In the case of the video I posted, she is feeling a negative emotion but displaying a positive one.. that is the cause of this feeling of fakeness. It's half-hearted Id Block Fe.

Interesting view on that it could be true but I still don´t use the Inter-type Quadra value System anymore. Thanks for the Insight.

Suggestive Introverted Sensation? That leads to Clumsiness, not nervousness.

This is one of the many forms but not for V.I.

No, Extroversion does not lead to nervousness or physical security (that's a pretty counter-intuitive assertion). Extroversion leads to an expansive mindset, a willingness to take on more, even biting off more than a person can chew.

I don´t said that Extraversion would lead to nervousness quiet the opposite I said her face compensates suggestive Sensation which nervously moves the face.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

A proper Typed non-read ILE maybe. Stereotypical, Frameworktypical an ILE but when you put a Type onto a person and search for commonalities you automatically skew your analysis.



No it would give off a more ugly quality than or it would completely fade away.



Interesting view on that it could be true but I still don´t use the Inter-type Quadra value System anymore. Thanks for the Insight.



This is one of the many forms but not for V.I.



I don´t said that Extraversion would lead to nervousness quiet the opposite I said her face compensates suggestive Sensation which nervously moves the face.

What difference are you stating between read and type?

Bill Maher and Andy Samberg aren't ILEs because they resemble eachother.... They're ILEs because their behaviour and apparent cognition clearly shows the Model A of an ILE to someone who knows how to Visually Identify people properly (observations reasonably deduced from an understanding of Model A as a theory and how it might show in visible behaviour). That they happen to resemble eachother is not the basis of them having the same type but all too often a result of it.

I don't think Id block Fe would be more ugly, it would be used to better effect but less genuineness than Super-Id Fe because it is not being valued but is strong.

I think your methods of visual identification are pretty off the wall if you think she visually resembles an ILE. I think good Visual Identification is when you can see Model A of that type being clearly represented in their facial expressions and body language and it backs up the information from other sources. Maybe your conception of blue is yellow and your conception of yellow is blue, figuratively speaking. I wonder if you think I might be an ESI.

Can you justify your assertion by explaining why Suggestive Introverted Sensation might make someone visually appear as nervousness in the face? I might go as far as saying that 1D Introverted Sensation results in a lack of awareness, and thus control (hence clumsiness), of the finer movements of the body, but I have no reason to say that it causes nervousness in the face (why should Introverted Sensation be linked to physical confidence when Si-leading doesn't ordain the opposite of nervousness?). I think a lack of surety in physical movements, or confidence, can result from weak Extroverted Sensation though.

Have you heard of Pod'lair by any chance?

[Soupman]

What difference are you stating between read and type?

Bill Maher and Andy Samberg aren't ILEs because they resemble eachother.... They're ILEs because their behaviour and apparent cognition clearly shows the Model A of an ILE to someone who knows how to Visually Identify people properly (observations reasonably deduced from an understanding of Model A as a theory and how it might show in visible behaviour). That they happen to resemble eachother is not the basis of them having the same type but all too often a result of it.

I don't think Id block Fe would be more ugly, it would be used to better effect but less genuineness than Super-Id Fe because it is not being valued but is strong.

I think your methods of visual identification are pretty off the wall if you think she visually resembles an ILE. I think good Visual Identification is when you can see Model A of that type being clearly represented in their facial expressions and body language and it backs up the information from other sources. Maybe your conception of blue is yellow and your conception of yellow is blue, figuratively speaking. I wonder if you think I might be an ESI.

Can you justify your assertion by explaining why Suggestive Introverted Sensation might make someone visually appear as nervousness in the face? I might go as far as saying that 1D Introverted Sensation results in a lack of awareness, and thus control (hence clumsiness), of the finer movements of the body, but I have no reason to say that it causes nervousness in the face (why should Introverted Sensation be linked to physical confidence when Si-leading doesn't ordain the opposite of nervousness?). I think a lack of surety in physical movements, or confidence, can result from weak Extroverted Sensation though.

Have you heard of Pod'lair by any chance?

What do you think of pod lair? Whats your point of view on their assertion that people who share a type are supposed to be similar? Personally that wouldn't work for me, I'd be ''read'' as IEI in their system which is preposterous come to think of it. I feel that Thomas Chenault thinks that anybody who has personality traits that are rudimentary similar to his shares the same type as him.

[silke]

I'm still going with the IEE-Fi typing for her, which could explain some of her introvert-like softness.
By enneagram she's likely sp/sx.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

What do you think of pod lair? Whats your point of view on their assertion that people who share a type are supposed to be similar? Personally than wouldn't work for me, I'd be ''read'' as IEI in their system which is preposterous come to think of it. I feel that Thomas Chenault thinks that anybody who has personality traits that are rudimentary similar to his, share the same type as him.

I'd be read as Nai'xyy (IEI) in their system as well. They don't actually think that people are supposed to be similar, in fact they've stretched it so far as to say it's not how we act that makes us our type, but what mojo we possess which is readable through body movements and facial structure. However, the selection of what body movements suggest what trait of the mojo is very oddly linked up and why apparently we're also the same mojo as both Gandhi, JK Rowling and Mike Tyson.

It's a terrible, terrible school of practice but Zero seems to be doing something similar here with this whole, nervousness meaning Ne lead/Si suggestive stuff. It's like saying... "hmmm... frogs should fly... oh! that feathered thing over there is flying... it must be a frog".

[Zero11]

What difference are you stating between read and type?

I don´t state a difference but badly executed Type ordering results in discrepancies.

That they happen to resemble eachother is not the basis of them having the same type but all too often a result of it.

I agree but it´s a bit more complicated than that.

I don't think Id block Fe would be more ugly, it would be used to better effect but less genuineness than Super-Id Fe because it is not being valued but is strong.

Of course you don´t because it is my personal interpretation of how I view this. Btw. I meant Ego- not Id-

I think your methods of visual identification are pretty off the wall if you think she visually resembles an ILE. I think good Visual Identification is when you can see Model A of that type being clearly represented in their facial expressions and body language and it backs up the information from other sources.

Error 1 and you showed -PoLR many other IEI´s showed such a ridiculous reasoning. Helplessly backing up data by others is in a weak position.

Model A is not perfect infact you just mush it together to fit into the framework. You see Model A how you want it to see and how if Model A consists of some Errors that destroys the real picture?

Maybe your conception of blue is yellow and your conception of yellow is blue, figuratively speaking. I wonder if you think I might be an ESI.

Weren´t you frustrated by the lack of consistence and sureness of your V.I. analysis and No I don´t.

Can you justify your assertion by explaining why Suggestive Introverted Sensation might make someone visually appear as nervousness in the face?

blinking with the eyes and making hectic movements, pushing the lips together, an uncomfortable look on the face, execute unnatural movements for compensation of sensory related stress

I might go as far as saying that 1D Introverted Sensation results in a lack of awareness, and thus control (hence clumsiness), of the finer movements of the body, but I have no reason to say that it causes nervousness in the face (why should Introverted Sensation be linked to physical confidence when Si-leading doesn't ordain the opposite of nervousness?). I think a lack of surety in physical movements, or confidence, can result from weak Extroverted Sensation though.

Si-leading let me guess your Si samples are off, maybe Intuitives. An IEE who thinks of herself of an SLI or an ILE who thinks is an ESI because of the Stereotypical nature of the descripions and for commoners the lack of seriousness on the topic itself. These mistyped ones may have a certain mindset which Typology tries to fit into their Framework hence they differ from correct reads.

Have you heard of Pod'lair by any chance?

Life-Partner Hierarchy

1. Inspiration: Extinguishment (ideal), Mirage, Quasi-Identical
2. Augmentation: Identical (most), Kindred, Mirror
3. Compensation: Beneficiary, Benefactor
4. Partitioning: Business, Super-Ego, Conflictor, Supervisor, Supervisee
5. Suppression: Dual (lowest), Activator, Semi-Dual

What do you think was I doing the last year? Socionics wasn´t able to offer me anything valuable, there were still discrpencies: ESI´s weren´t ESI´s, ILE´s were just some rare bunch of a stereotype, there was no way too distingush Sensation from Intuition, Ethics from Logic (Quadra typical differences), Extraversion from Introversion and the skewed judgment/perception Dichotomy_ no way to type a person correctly infact it would be far easier if one were able to read these Configurations out. I could even deduce learned stuff through the PL samples from CognitiveType, do you even now what a Ti Stoneface is? It is the flat area under the Eyes and the cheeks when it´s not filled with Fe Articulation.

I myself wondered why some were read as IEI who I thought and were it would have made sense them to be ILE maybe there is some error in it that is going to be corrected in the next purification or my understanding is off here.

It's a terrible, terrible school of practice but Zero seems to be doing something similar here with this whole, nervousness meaning Ne lead/Si suggestive stuff. It's like saying... "hmmm... frogs should fly... oh! that feathered thing over there is flying... it must be a frog".

spare your

this is not about competition it is about simple truth

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

I don´t state a difference but badly executed Type ordering results in discrepancies.

Type ordering?

Of course you don´t because it is my personal interpretation of how I view this. Btw. I meant Ego- not Id-

A personal interpretation might as well not be mentioned unless it can be explained to others with principles and methodologies that make sense under public scrutiny.

Error 1 and you showed -PoLR many other IEI´s showed such a ridiculous reasoning. Helplessly backing up data by others is in a weak position.

Actually, you misunderstood. I was referring to other sources of information that the socionics practitioner picks up from viewing the subject i.e. what the person is saying in the interview, their life choices etc. My Te is comfortably Demonstrative and I have no qualms about rejecting the opinions of others if they don't match the perceivable evidence and the rules of the theory.

Model A is not perfect infact you just mush it together to fit into the framework. You see Model A how you want it to see and how if Model A consists of some Errors that destroys the real picture?

Model A is actually pretty perfect from a Ti perspective and so far it's held up pretty well from a Te perspective. Things can be added onto it however if they don't disrupt its internal perfection.

blinking with the eyes and making hectic movements, pushing the lips together, an uncomfortable look on the face, execute unnatural movements for compensation of sensory related stress

Why would this be sensory-related stress as opposed to stress brought on by the interview? There could be multiple reasons why someone might be stressed and the stimulus of that stress is just as important as the particular movement. Why would Introverted Sensation be stressful in Suggestive? You make it sound like she is Si-Vulnerable.

Si-leading let me guess your Si samples are off, maybe Intuitives. An IEE who thinks of herself of an SLI or an ILE who thinks is an ESI because of the Stereotypical nature of the descripions and for commoners the lack of seriousness on the topic itself. These mistyped ones may have a certain mindset which Typology tries to fit into their Framework hence they differ from correct reads.

I'm not saying Si leading, I'm saying 1D Si i.e. very weak Si. An Si lead would be 4D Si i.e. very strong Si. Is dimensionality unknown to you?

What do you think was I doing the last year? Socionics wasn´t able to offer me anything valuable, there were still discrpencies: ESI´s weren´t ESI´s, ILE´s were just some rare bunch of a stereotype, there was no way too distingush Sensation from Intuition, Ethics from Logic (Quadra typical differences), Extraversion from Introversion and the skewed judgment/perception Dichotomy_ no way to type a person correctly infact it would be far easier if one were able to read these Configurations out. I could even deduce learned stuff through the PL samples from CognitiveType, do you even now what a Ti Stoneface is? It is the flat area under the Eyes and the cheeks when it´s not filled with Fe Articulation.

You sound like a terribly confused fellow. I don't know where to begin with what you have said here. How did you first get into Socionics? What was your first source? I can't blame you really. Model A as a theory might be perfect but the practice and exegesis of Socionics is a mess that needs cleaning up with crisp definitions and refined methodologies.

I do know about the Stone Face... as well as the Anvil Face and the warm-wizard hands I apparently have.

I myself wondered why some were read as IEI who I thought and were it would have made sense them to be ILE maybe there is some error in it that is going to be corrected in the next purification or my understanding is off here.

It's probably because most of the people behind Pod'lair, including its founder, are IEI. The entire approach is profoundly IEI... It has the whole Ni greater, mystical mumbo-jumbo purpose, Fe spread the message Beta Humanitarian approach and the theory itself is a good example of Ti HA with Te PoLR. Lots of rules and principles of questionable reasoning about how we move our hands and shift our eyes determines some inner mojo that has no grounding in the facts of the situation (that JK Rowling and Mike Tyson simply aren't anything like each other by any typological model already in existence)

spare your

this is not about competition it is about simple truth

But I do like to indulge my Hidden Agenda. I am an actor after all.

Sophistry is enjoyable for political/moral issues but I like to be sincere with my Socionics.

[Zero11]

Type ordering?

Yes types that are off, simply spoken the type matches the specific stereotypes of the theory but not reality as it should play out.

A personal interpretation might as well not be mentioned unless it can be explained to others with principles and methodologies that make sense under public scrutiny.

It´s a unique type specific perspective, feedback that the unfinished framework needs to grow. It doesn´t need to be broad per se _ such a thing would be impossible you can´t just expect something theoretical to be this perfect.

Actually, you misunderstood. I was referring to other sources of information that the socionics practitioner picks up from viewing the subject i.e. what the person is saying in the interview, their life choices etc. My Te is comfortably Demonstrative and I have no qualms about rejecting the opinions of others if they don't match the perceivable evidence and the rules of the theory.

I understood you very good.

Model A is actually pretty perfect from a Ti perspective and so far it's held up pretty well from a Te perspective. Things can be added onto it however if they don't disrupt its internal perfection.

It´s not perfect because Dual-seeking is not correct, a huge part of the theory floods into Duality connections. Assumptions about how it should work based on Jungs half-baked writings.

Why would this be sensory-related stress as opposed to stress brought on by the interview?

You are aware that the Interviewer is the sensory Input?

There could be multiple reasons why someone might be stressed and the stimulus of that stress is just as important as the particular movement.

No that´s HSP which happens on high Intuition due to Sensory overload which isn´t as good filtered by Intutitives than Sensors. Different reasons are Judgment based and not a matter of perception.

Why would Introverted Sensation be stressful in Suggestive? You make it sound like she is Si-Vulnerable.

V.I. works at first in Dichotomies, functions are more specific and bundled with it´s extraverted or introverted counterpart / and / - Introverted/Extroverted is just a byproduct of Static/Dynamic.

I'm not saying Si leading, I'm saying 1D Si i.e. very weak Si. An Si lead would be 4D Si i.e. very strong Si. Is dimensionality unknown to you?

Of course not, sorry I just overread the 1D

You sound like a terribly confused fellow. I don't know where to begin with what you have said here. How did you first get into Socionics? What was your first source? I can't blame you really. Model A as a theory might be perfect but the practice and exegesis of Socionics is a mess that needs cleaning up with crisp definitions and refined methodologies.

The fact is types don´t match, it isn´t making sense and Socionics at the early stage just puts them into Types and the compatibility Model without really knowing what they talk about.
You mean the different Schools in Socionics that have strict rules how to type? Yeah I heard of that. Boolean11 is currently working on Model X:

https://plus.google.com/+Socionicsbr...ca/posts?hl=de

we are in contact and share our Knowledge and other stuff

I do know about the Stone Face... as well as the Anvil Face and the warm-wizard hands I apparently have.

so how does Anvil looks like? I don´t know it yet.

It's probably because most of the people behind Pod'lair, including its founder, are IEI. The entire approach is profoundly IEI... It has the whole Ni greater, mystical mumbo-jumbo purpose, Fe spread the message Beta Humanitarian approach and the theory itself is a good example of Ti HA with Te PoLR. Lots of rules and principles of questionable reasoning about how we move our hands and shift our eyes determines some inner mojo that has no grounding in the facts of the situation (that JK Rowling and Mike Tyson simply aren't anything like each other by any typological model already in existence)

I agree with the peculiar makeup of this Theory and it doesn´t makes sense unless you got into it and are able to see it. No grounding in facts nice I don´t need that I can see it for myself you -PoLR. As if I couldn´t see it myself
Mike Tyson is IEI? Where?

ephemereality from PerC:
I also find that I think Ti doms in particular often nitpick certain things just because they can nitpick at it, but tend to miss out on the bigger picture because the point isn't say that particular phrase, word or whatever, but the point is how it all strings together and formulate a concept or an idea.

useless "grounding in facts" leads to nothing

But I do like to indulge my Hidden Agenda. I am an actor after all.

I personally hate it.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

Yes types that are off, simply spoken the type matches the specific stereotypes of the theory but not reality as it should play out.

The theory doesn't match reality? A comprehensible argument at last! If you are talking about inter-type relations specifically, I think more work can be done to explain relationships where there are more variables than information metabolism. If you mean that the type itself doesn't match the person it is meant to represent then either the profiles aren't written correctly or the person is mistyped.

It´s a unique type specific perspective, feedback that the unfinished framework needs to grow. It doesn´t need to be broad per se _ such a thing would be impossible you can´t just expect something theoretical to be this perfect.

The very least something theoretical is expected to be is perfect only then is it weighed against what is empirical.

I understood you very good.

Well you didn't, you said I was hopelessly backing up data by others which I said is not what I was doing.

It´s not perfect because Dual-seeking is not correct, a huge part of the theory floods into Duality connections. Assumptions about how it should work based on Jungs half-baked writings.

What exactly do you mean by 'dual-seeking'. The Super-Id block works fine.

You are aware that the Interviewer is the sensory Input?

Why would he be sensory input? Is he too loud? Is he touching her?

No that´s HSP which happens on high Intuition due to Sensory overload which isn´t as good filtered by Intutitives than Sensors. Different reasons are Judgment based and not a matter of perception.

HSP is a common occurrence in Delicate Movers i.e. those with 4D Ni and thus 1D Se... this is especially seen in LIIs and EIIs for whom Se is a stressful vulnerable function shrinking back should someone touch them unexpectedly, removing themselves from loud, aggressive environments etc.. You seem to be confusing your Se with Si in this. Really it must be vulnerable Se that is the cause because HSP is an inability to withstand physical stimuli, not an inability to concentrate on and enjoy physical stimuli.

I do not actually see this sort of weak Se reaction in her interviews but have seen it in other people, albeit done differently.

V.I. works at first in Dichotomies, functions are more specific and bundled with it´s extraverted or introverted counterpart / and / - Introverted/Extroverted is just a byproduct of Static/Dynamic.

I would disagree with that, Extroversion and Introversion, along with Ratinality/Irrationality are key to understanding Static/Dynamic as well as how the IM Element itself works. You can understand why Se is tough and ambitious while Si is soft and comfortable because of Extroversion and Introversion (with Static/Dynamic to a lesser extent).

The fact is types don´t match, it isn´t making sense and Socionics at the early stage just puts them into Types and the compatibility Model without really knowing what they talk about.

Give me an example of types not matching, as opposed to mistypes like you assigning ILE to Lana based on the misguided idea that ILEs and IEEs characteristically have HSP.

You mean the different Schools in Socionics that have strict rules how to type? Yeah I heard of that. Boolean11 is currently working on Model X:

https://plus.google.com/+Socionicsbr...ca/posts?hl=de

we are in contact and share our Knowledge and other stuff

I've seen Socionics Britannica, it looks like an interesting development.

so how does Anvil looks like? I don´t know it yet.

I didn't study it to the point of being able to read people in Pod'Lair.

I agree with the peculiar makeup of this Theory and it doesn´t makes sense unless you got into it and are able to see it. No grounding in facts nice I don´t need that I can see it for myself you -PoLR. As if I couldn´t see it myself
Mike Tyson is IEI? Where?

The official Pod'Lair type list of celebrities has Mike Tyson as a Nai'xyy. But it's expected for you to not see the facts as clearly as I do. My Te is 4D after all.

ephemereality from PerC:
I also find that I think Ti doms in particular often nitpick certain things just because they can nitpick at it, but tend to miss out on the bigger picture because the point isn't say that particular phrase, word or whatever, but the point is how it all strings together and formulate a concept or an idea.

useless "grounding in facts" leads to nothing


I personally hate it.

Well I don't doubt that you are an ILI.

[Zero11]

The theory doesn't match reality? A comprehensible argument at last! If you are talking about inter-type relations specifically, I think more work can be done to explain relationships where there are more variables than information metabolism. If you mean that the type itself doesn't match the person it is meant to represent then either the profiles aren't written correctly or the person is mistyped.

A ego is seen as ego in the theory not knowing that both Pe/Ep Elements don´t like to be restraint, not just . There are now egos that are like because they are egos therefore enacting confusion if that doesn´t hit you you are just dead on Model A being hyper theoretical. So they are mistyped but correct inside the model creating friction.

The very least something theoretical is expected to be is perfect only then is it weighed against what is empirical.

Nothing is perfect everything is changing altough it can be near perfection it never reaches the point of it. It is an Ideal state without natural compensation.

Well you didn't, you said I was hopelessly backing up data by others which I said is not what I was doing.

ehh okay

What exactly do you mean by 'dual-seeking'. The Super-Id block works fine.

It means that you seek Inspiration from or in your case which is not the case. is inspired by and the other way around.

Why would he be sensory input? Is he too loud? Is he touching her?

He is simply there and she feels that which is enough to be nervous.

HSP is a common occurrence in Delicate Movers i.e. those with 4D Ni and thus 1D Se... this is especially seen in LIIs and EIIs for whom Se is a stressful vulnerable function shrinking back should someone touch them unexpectedly, removing themselves from loud, aggressive environments etc.. You seem to be confusing your Se with Si in this. Really it must be vulnerable Se that is the cause because HSP is an inability to withstand physical stimuli, not an inability to concentrate on and enjoy physical stimuli.

I was talking about compensation not about surrender to the overwhelming Input.

I do not actually see this sort of weak Se reaction in her interviews but have seen it in other people, albeit done differently.

I would disagree with that, Extroversion and Introversion, along with Ratinality/Irrationality are key to understanding Static/Dynamic as well as how the IM Element itself works. You can understand why Se is tough and ambitious while Si is soft and comfortable because of Extroversion and Introversion (with Static/Dynamic to a lesser extent).

So much to Socionics Britannica

http://www.socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml

A weird mix out of Directive/Adaptive, Left brain / Right brain, Dynamic/Static

a simply lesser Dichotomy the basis?

Give me an example of types not matching, as opposed to mistypes like you assigning ILE to Lana based on the misguided idea that ILEs and IEEs characteristically have HSP.

I had problems with Real Life examples that weren´t matching up and the Intuitive HSP form is not necessarily the same as the one who is through a lack of filter in the nervous System.

I didn't study it to the point of being able to read people in Pod'Lair.

As I thought you just copied some buzzwords.

The official Pod'Lair type list of celebrities has Mike Tyson as a Nai'xyy. But it's expected for you to not see the facts as clearly as I do. My Te is 4D after all.

I see a Neil deGrasse Tyson but not a Mike Tyson on the list.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

A ego is seen as ego in the theory not knowing that both Pe/Ep Elements don´t like to be restraint, not just . There are now egos that are like because they are egos therefore enacting confusion if that doesn´t hit you you are just dead on Model A being hyper theoretical. So they are mistyped but correct inside the model creating friction.

I would disagree with that, the temperament of the IM Element is fundamental to our understanding of it. Ne wouldn't be Ne without Extroversion and Irrationality so this must be retained in our conception of Ne. The difference between Se and Ne is that one is Ep with External information and the other is Ep with Internal information... physical versus conceptual... hence Se wants to be free to take what he wants out of the concrete things in the world... Ne wants to be free to explore any possibility imaginable.

Nothing is perfect everything is changing altough it can be near perfection it never reaches the point of it. It is an Ideal state without natural compensation.

Perfection is what is internally consistent... mathematics is perfect. Maybe we just disagree on this due to Static vs Dynamic logic.

It means that you seek Inspiration from or in your case which is not the case. is inspired by and the other way around.

No, I would not say that as an ILE I take inspiration from Ni. I find it a very confusing IM Element that rarely makes much sense. It's one of the reasons I have the most baffling debates with ILIs like yourself. I would not say that I actively seek Si (indeed it's a vital function) but I do very much appreciate it when it is present and I do find pleasant aesthetics inspiring.

He is simply there and she feels that which is enough to be nervous.

That seems circular... "she has weak sensing because she is nervous around him"... "he is sensory because she is nervous of him" You haven't explained what kind of sensory he even is which is pretty crucial.

I was talking about compensation not about surrender to the overwhelming Input.

The compensation stems from the LII and EII's Hidden Agenda Si, making them overly fussy about small, physical details pertaining to their health.

So much to Socionics Britannica

http://www.socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml

A weird mix out of Directive/Adaptive, Left brain / Right brain, Dynamic/Static

a simply lesser Dichotomy the basis?

The table you posted is pretty misleading. I wouldn't say it's very accurate. No, I don't use Left/Right or Directive/Adaptive really. Our conception of an Information Element can almost entirely be constructed from Extroversion/Introversion, Rationality/Irrationality, Static/Dynamic and Internal/External.

I had problems with Real Life examples that weren´t matching up and the Intuitive HSP form is not necessarily the same as the one who is through a lack of filter in the nervous System.

How do you know these Real Life examples were typed correctly? I wouldn't trust your typings based on your contrary grasp of the theory and the even more contrary results you give to subjects.

As I thought you just copied some buzzwords.

Pretty much.

I see a Neil deGrasse Tyson but not a Mike Tyson on the list.

They have a newer version released.

[Saberstorm]

The absolute lack of consistency in assigning types is extra-ordinary here. This theory destroys its credibility every time a type is assigned.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

The absolute lack of consistency in assigning types is extra-ordinary here. This theory destroys its credibility every time a type is assigned.

I don't think people are even utilising the same theory. The principles and methodologies cited by some contradict those cited by another leading to such different results.

[consentingadult]

Fe mobilising really doesn't come off that way.... for SLEs and ILEs it's more that they try to pass on big/happy emotions to others in without the finesse of an EIE or ESE (with risk of it backfiring).

This is an ILE engaging in his Mobilisng Fe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ImSbixBsOk He couldn't be more different from Lana who responds terribly to similar attempts by the interviewer in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHnNIgDWxx8
I would not say that Lana is trying to increase the positive emotivity and failing, rather is begrudgingly conforming to it. I also wouldn't put her as nervous in these videos, just restrained and a bit stiff. The interviewing situations clearly clash with her overtly Gamma values and that is what is showing in her disapproving Fi eyes.

Since when is a nervous face indicative of leading Intuition? Introverted Intution can give the person a sense of doubt but it doesn't cause a nervous face. 4D Ni, when Ni is very strong and Se very weak, as seen with any type that is Introverted and Intuitive, leads to Delicate movement which makes them physically nervous (not quite able to confront the forceful, physical world) but I wouldn't say Lana even has that. Her manner of sitting and the movement of her body shows a certain amount of physical security albeit Controlled and restrained... 4D Si and IJ temperament (seen in LSIs and ESIs).

Finally someone who understands how Mobilizing Fe manifests itself.

[Zero11]

different from Lana who responds terribly to similar attempts by the interviewer in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHnNIgDWxx8
I would not say that Lana is trying to increase the positive emotivity and failing, rather is begrudgingly conforming to it. I also wouldn't put her as nervous in these videos, just restrained and a bit stiff. The interviewing situations clearly clash with her overtly Gamma values and that is what is showing in her disapproving Fi eyes.

She is oozing the entire video

I would disagree with that, the temperament of the IM Element is fundamental to our understanding of it. Ne wouldn't be Ne without Extroversion and Irrationality so this must be retained in our conception of Ne. The difference between Se and Ne is that one is Ep with External information and the other is Ep with Internal information... physical versus conceptual... hence Se wants to be free to take what he wants out of the concrete things in the world... Ne wants to be free to explore any possibility imaginable.

explores through the sixth sense and through the five senses. And I don´t see where you disagree here because it lines up with my understanding. It just seems that you didn´t get what I was saying and that was that is described like it could be e.g. in the Stratievskaya ILI-SEE Duality description.

Perfection is what is internally consistent... mathematics is perfect. Maybe we just disagree on this due to Static vs Dynamic logic.

Now that you mention it

No, I would not say that as an ILE I take inspiration from Ni. I find it a very confusing IM Element that rarely makes much sense. It's one of the reasons I have the most baffling debates with ILIs like yourself. I would not say that I actively seek Si (indeed it's a vital function) but I do very much appreciate it when it is present and I do find pleasant aesthetics inspiring.

Thats a really bad example it´s just a very complicated topic and very different to see because of it´s sheer complexity. Of course Quadras values still make it easier to in understanding but there is no growth in it.

That seems circular... "she has weak sensing because she is nervous around him"... "he is sensory because she is nervous of him" You haven't explained what kind of sensory he even is which is pretty crucial.

It isn´t crucial and a HSP should be able to understand that. A person simply being there creates stress.

making them overly fussy about small, physical details pertaining to their health.

what?

The table you posted is pretty misleading. I wouldn't say it's very accurate. No, I don't use Left/Right or Directive/Adaptive really. Our conception of an Information Element can almost entirely be constructed from Extroversion/Introversion, Rationality/Irrationality, Static/Dynamic and Internal/External.

Okay bad link, how about that?

http://wikisocion.org/~wikisoci/en/i..._irrationality

How do you know these Real Life examples were typed correctly? I wouldn't trust your typings based on your contrary grasp of the theory and the even more contrary results you give to subjects.

That was exactly the Problem they weren´t behaving like they should so they weren´t typed correctly and I couldn´t get onto what there real type was because of the disturbing lack of understanding what everyone who uses just Socionics isn´t able to get at and being sure about it. I didn´t type them because I couldn´t

They have a newer version released.

Which is not to my access.

[bolong]

Yeah, to be an IEI you have to have a distant look in your eyes and elaborate makeup.



Stars are a bonus and clear indicator.

No. That's fi subculture chicks.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

She is oozing the entire video

If you think that is oozing then it's no wonder you haven't been able to type people properly.

Here is some Leading Fe:
Rolf Harris (ESE) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUGWppcAvtI
Russell Brand (EIE) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YR4CseY9pk
Oprah Winfrey (EIE) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfT2KCyXoA
Beyonce Knowles (ESE) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KThKNMo8tFM

Do you feel the ooze?

Here is some Creative Fe for good measure:
Luciano Pavarotti (SEI) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjrgbCaC1U
Bjork (SEI) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WROOuJyHMiU
Lady Gaga (IEI) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCCcK6o0JwM
Tony Robinson (IEI) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCCcK6o0JwM

explores through the sixth sense and through the five senses. And I don´t see where you disagree here because it lines up with my understanding. It just seems that you didn´t get what I was saying and that was that is described like it could be e.g. in the Stratievskaya ILI-SEE Duality description.

If we agree then it's just a case of socionists not doing justice to Socionics in their descriptions. This is commonplace.

I often don't understand you. I find your way of writing counter-intuitive (pardon the pun).

Thats a really bad example it´s just a very complicated topic and very different to see because of it´s sheer complexity. Of course Quadras values still make it easier to in understanding but there is no growth in it.

I wouldn't say it's that complicated. It's simply a question of seeing people respond positively or negatively to certain kinds of information metabolism while ensuring it's the delivery rather than the content that's being responded to.

What do you mean by no growth?

It isn´t crucial and a HSP should be able to understand that. A person simply being there creates stress.

Are you saying it's any person being there or certain kind of sensory person?
Why would a person create stress? what about noises? sensations? smells? Do you have HSP?

what?

Si Hidden Agenda makes LII and EII overly concerned with looking after themselves while at the same time being unable to defend themselves from threats (Se vulnerable). These are the stereotypical HSP who are easily overpowered by sensory stimuli.

Okay bad link, how about that?

http://wikisocion.org/~wikisoci/en/i..._irrationality

I don't even think that gets to the root of Rationality vs Irrationality. Read my articles sometime.

That was exactly the Problem they weren´t behaving like they should so they weren´t typed correctly and I couldn´t get onto what there real type was because of the disturbing lack of understanding what everyone who uses just Socionics isn´t able to get at and being sure about it. I didn´t type them because I couldn´t

A lot of people on here don't know what they're talking about. Even a number of socionists don't have a very good idea. The best thing to do is to completely start over again from a set of stable definitions on the most basic dichotomies and work upwards (everything is deduced from the foundational dichotomies and reasonable interjections) from there. That's what I did and now I understand the system properly.

Which is not to my access.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...=sharing&pli=1 Here's a list Gabe Armstrong showed to me.

[Zero11]

If you think that is oozing then it's no wonder you haven't been able to type people properly.

Sure because I was able to recognize this before changing my views and methods

Here is some Leading Fe:
Rolf Harris (ESE) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUGWppcAvtI
Russell Brand (EIE) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YR4CseY9pk
Oprah Winfrey (EIE) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfT2KCyXoA
Beyonce Knowles (ESE) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KThKNMo8tFM

Do you feel the ooze?

Of course not Typology is too obvious for anything deeper on such a level and every Configuration has a different kind of using an Information Element.

Here is some Creative Fe for good measure:
Luciano Pavarotti (SEI) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjrgbCaC1U
Bjork (SEI) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WROOuJyHMiU
Lady Gaga (IEI) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCCcK6o0JwM
Tony Robinson (IEI) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCCcK6o0JwM

Lady Gaga is read as NyyXai (IEE) and Beyonce as XaiVyy (ESI) and btw. Ideal Inspiration/Extingushment or Duality, Activation however you wanna call it, is the easiest for me to grasp on this so it is exhausting and pretty much high level which implies theory based Surface scratching on your side.

If we agree then it's just a case of socionists not doing justice to Socionics in their descriptions. This is commonplace.

Again no that wasn´t what I meant fuck

I personally find Stratievskaya very good it just needs adjusted to the new understanding of Inspiration in contrast to Duality.

I often don't understand you. I find your way of writing counter-intuitive (pardon the pun).

I wouldn't say it's that complicated. It's simply a question of seeing people respond positively or negatively to certain kinds of information metabolism while ensuring it's the delivery rather than the content that's being responded to.

I am not a and valuing type so no I don´t find it easy.

What do you mean by no growth?

Inspiration you know the Muse, Interest, Exictment, Insight and such things_ the same Quadra is just stagnation. Your suggestive function don´t gives you that you just have to deal with it as being a conscious part on your side.

Are you saying it's any person being there or certain kind of sensory person?
Why would a person create stress? what about noises? sensations? smells? Do you have HSP?

I am a HSP yes. I don´t know why a person creates stress it is simply what it is maybe Fe PoLR or something. The Noises are not really a factor only in combination with Smells. Sensations are a problem on temperature, pain or being uncomfortable sensation wise.

Si Hidden Agenda makes LII and EII overly concerned with looking after themselves while at the same time being unable to defend themselves from threats (Se vulnerable). These are the stereotypical HSP who are easily overpowered by sensory stimuli.

Dunno I am just not a user which maybe leads to a lack of understanding here.

I don't even think that gets to the root of Rationality vs Irrationality. Read my articles sometime.

Okay I did and it was short or is there more? If so give a link so that I can check immediately.

A lot of people on here don't know what they're talking about. Even a number of socionists don't have a very good idea. The best thing to do is to completely start over again from a set of stable definitions on the most basic dichotomies and work upwards (everything is deduced from the foundational dichotomies and reasonable interjections) from there. That's what I did and now I understand the system properly.

Thats what I did from the beginning and failed because the definitions are crap, they don´t really know what they talk about and that from the beginning. Not to mention that most Socionics stuff is in russian.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...=sharing&pli=1 Here's a list Gabe Armstrong showed to me.

I expected an underground updated PL list

Where do you get Mike Tyson IEI from? It is only on your list, holy crash and the types are good in line but still on my old wrong attempts to types.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

Lady Gaga is read as NyyXai (IEE) and Beyonce as XaiVyy (ESI) and btw. Ideal Inspiration/Extingushment or Duality, Activation however you wanna call it, is the easiest for me to grasp on this so it is exhausting and pretty much high level which implies theory based Surface scratching on your side.

Well, whatever Pod'lair types has nothing to do with Socionics. It's a different system (and a bad one at that).

I personally find Stratievskaya very good it just needs adjusted to the new understanding of Inspiration in contrast to Duality.

Inspiration is a Pod'lair concept and one that has no place in Socionics which already calls it a Contrary relation. In practice I find my conversations with ILIs to be more Contrary than Inspiring. Our conversation right now is a text book example.

Inspiration you know the Muse, Interest, Exictment, Insight and such things_ the same Quadra is just stagnation. Your suggestive function don´t gives you that you just have to deal with it as being a conscious part on your side.

I would disagree, I find people in my own quadra (but SF rather than NT) inspiring. The stagnation can happen with Identity relations because there's no growth.

I am a HSP yes. I don´t know why a person creates stress it is simply what it is maybe Fe PoLR or something. The Noises are not really a factor only in combination with Smells. Sensations are a problem on temperature, pain or being uncomfortable sensation wise.

Well I wouldn't say you are HSP because you lead with a kind of intuition leading. I would say you are HSP because you are 4D in Introverted Intuition which you happen to lead in and thus 1D in Extroverted Sensation. I am an ILE who also leads with a kind of Intuition (Extroverted) and I don't anything close to HSP, I'm actually rather insensitive to my environment. I do not have 4D Introverted Intuition. I would say that rather than being HSP, types with 4D Extroverted Intuition and thus 1D Introverted Sensation, are more likely to have Sensory Integration Dysfunction (I have this).

Dunno I am just nt a user.

Yes you are, you have as a Role function.

Okay I did and it was short or is there more? If so give a link so that I can check immediately.

It's short but it gets to the root of it.

Thats what I did from the beginning and failed because the definitions are crap, they don´t really know what they talk about and that from the beginning. Not to mention that most Socionics stuff is in russian.

The definitions in a lot of places need tweaking. When they are tweaked to precision they work very well.

Where do you get Mike Tyson IEI from? It is only on your list, holy crash and the types are good in line but still on my old wrong attempts to types.

Apparently they typed him that in an unreleased list my friend was privy to.

[Zero11]

Well, whatever Pod'lair types has nothing to do with Socionics. It's a different system (and a bad one at that).

Infact Duality consist of all 8 function and that your weaknesses are protected so it is not really different from Ideal Inspiration in common thought.

Also if that would be the case many IEI would have just because they lead with and are therefore rather weird in contrast to other users. And many other things that just don´t come to my mind you can make it a different System. But with that the huge discrepancies remaining it is just putting people into boxes without thinking what could be right and what could be wrong.

Inspiration is a Pod'lair concept and one that has no place in Socionics which already calls it a Contrary relation. In practice I find my conversations with ILIs to be more Contrary than Inspiring. Our conversation right now is a text book example.

Thats just the Internet, a more personal level would be easier but you are right the Quadra values still remain.

I would disagree, I find people in my own quadra (but SF rather than NT) inspiring. The stagnation can happen with Identity relations because there's no growth.

No wondering here if you type them another way than I do.

Well I wouldn't say you are HSP because you lead with a kind of intuition leading. I would say you are HSP because you are 4D in Introverted Intuition which you happen to lead in and thus 1D in Extroverted Sensation. I am an ILE who also leads with a kind of Intuition (Extroverted) and I don't anything close to HSP, I'm actually rather insensitive to my environment. I do not have 4D Introverted Intuition. I would say that rather than being HSP, types with 4D Extroverted Intuition and thus 1D Introverted Sensation, are more likely to have Sensory Integration Dysfunction (I have this).

PL uses this to describe different stuff so I just have a surface grasp on that.

Yes you are, you have as a Role function.

It's short but it gets to the root of it.

explain futher please...

The definitions in a lot of places need tweaking. When they are tweaked to precision they work very well.

Thats exactly where the problem lies you tweak the frictions away.

Apparently they typed him that in an unreleased list my friend was privy to.

Which type is that Armstrong?

[chriscorey]

[chriscorey]

What are you trying to communicate?

I think you're sooooo cuuute.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

Infact Duality consist of all 8 function and that your weaknesses are protected so it is not really different from Ideal Inspiration in common thought.

But that's exactly what makes it different... Inspiration does not cover your weaknesses... how can an ILI give me my Fe and Si fix and protect me from Fi and Se?

Also if that would be the case many IEI would have just because they lead with and are therefore rather weird in contrast to other users. And many other things that just don´t come to my mind you can make it a different System. But with that the huge discrepancies remaining it is just putting people into boxes without thinking what could be right and what could be wrong.

Yes, IEI and SEI are sincere communicators because their is actually stronger than their . That's why they communicate differently in the videos I showed you. Nevertheless, they attempt to use more than . You can see this difference in the videos where true leads to not make this attempt. It's a fine distinction that takes practise to spot.

Thats just the Internet, a more personal level would be easier but you are right the Quadra values still remain.

Well, my brother's an ILI. I find him very contrary

No wondering here if you type them another way than I do.

Yes, we're not using the same system at all. But as you can see from other people's posts, my system is far more aligned with how Socionics is practised than your PL/Socionics hybrid. You will only bamboozle people trying to use it.

explain futher please...

For the sake of space I focused on the basic distinctions. That's really all you need, you just need to mull those distinctions over and they'll click.

Which type is that Armstrong?

He's an IEI Nai'xyy.

[Zero11]

But that's exactly what makes it different... Inspiration does not cover your weaknesses... how can an ILI give me my Fe and Si fix and protect me from Fi and Se?

An SEI does not cover your weaknesses because that is just a theory. And you think that you need a Fe and Si fix that is not true (I give later examples but if the typings remain different you just see it from your System and nothing changes) I for example induldge easily in sensory pleasures as is suggestive for me. Doing the right thing for myself over that of the individual strangers would be my so how is an SEE helping me with that? Dunno what the and version of that is

Protection from is easily established dunno how to explain that but it happens. The version never happened to me so I can´t say.

To put it simple if you have the other 4 functions conscious you are easily able to navigate me through it. If that is not the case you are accustomed to use the other 4 you may be able to have it easier with the same Quadrant but thats just it.

I already gave you the Ti needs Te.doc and there are the other 2 Inspiration videos on Youtube about Interpretive/Intuitive and Values/Ethics they explain that, there is just the Problem that you jump into cold water_ it took me a long time to realize these Dynamics.

You are simply not attracted to your own Quadra just take a look at the clean samples:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kuyf4x0ye...%20females.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mofughmxc...%20females.jpg

Yes, IEI and SEI are sincere communicators because their is actually stronger than their . That's why they communicate differently in the videos I showed you. Nevertheless, they attempt to use more than . You can see this difference in the videos where true leads to not make this attempt. It's a fine distinction that takes practise to spot.

I love your Insight

Well, my brother's an ILI. I find him very contrary

Yes, we're not using the same system at all. But as you can see from other people's posts, my system is far more aligned with how Socionics is practised than your PL/Socionics hybrid. You will only bamboozle people trying to use it.

We will see after this entire argument

I found this SEE description very fitting however it was a specific type and I couldn´t wrap my head around her being a Sensor.

http://personalitycafe.com/socionics...socionics.html

For the sake of space I focused on the basic distinctions. That's really all you need, you just need to mull those distinctions over and they'll click.

Irrationality - The attitude of 'what is' (sounds like Sensation)
Rationality - The attitude of 'what ought' (sounds like Intuition)

contradictory stuff

He's an IEI Nai'xyy.

I need this new list