Fi suggestive/dual-seeking of LSEs-ESTjs and LIEs-ENTjs

[UDP]

Being really bad at understanding someone's relationship to you?

Even in terms of working in groups at school and stuff, I can socialize and exchange information. But when it comes to any sort of personal thing, friendships, relationships, and so on..... it is just something that does not come easily to me.

[Elro]

Being really bad at understanding someone's relationship to you?

How so?

[Joy]

It's weak Fi in general, I believe.

[UDP]

Being really bad at understanding someone's relationship to you?

How so?

Like, how they see you. Acquaintance, close friend, good friend. Relationship status.


Like sometimes when our executive board would do things, there would be a bunch of alpha Fe and Si, but I never really felt like I was a part of it. Particularly in the after - work sort of get togethers. Or like, recently, someone from another organization called, and, I was not sure if she was interested in seeing me because she wanted to talk about what we are doing next semester, of if she just wanted to see me because she is nice like that (alpha SF), or what. I relate to people professionally well - like if there is something and there is a task to do, it does not bother me to call or talk to anyone, or anything like that. But personally, it is difficult in what to make of things.



What would be an indication of Fi dual seeking then?

[olduser]

I'd say it puts you in an Fi quadra. Fe types don't tend to care as much about their closeness and defining relationships to others, they care more about keeping a nice atmosphere, and having friends for the sake of interaction, laughs, gossip, etc. Which doesn't mean they are superficial, they just aren't the sort of people that have close-close friends in a traditional sense. Fi and Ti are the traditional close friend sort of people. Ti people form close friendships because of some strived logical ideal and consistency(like the SeTi and TiSe macho guy stereotype unites some Ti types). Fi people like close friendships where nothing is kept secret and they each know their place with eachother, and with others(and this is open for discussion and analysis). Te forms friendships superficially like Fe, but it's more for goals/activities(your Te friend probably tells you a lot about his progress in his activity undertakings, your Fe friend tells you a lot about how they are getting along with others, and how billy said such and such, and how he was 'acting'). A Te person will be your friend because you do activities together. Comparitively, Fe types will be friends because they help easily flow in the atmosphere and exressiveness.

i hope that helps, and i hope others have input. I don't know how irrational functions work with friendships.

[UDP]

Fi and Ti are the traditional close friend sort of people. Ti people form close friendships because of some strived logical ideal and consistency(like the SeTi and TiSe macho guy stereotype unites some Ti types). Fi people like close friendships where nothing is kept secret and they each know their place with eachother, and with others(and this is open for discussion and analysis). Te forms friendships superficially like Fe, but it's more for goals/activities(your Te friend probably tells you a lot about his progress in his activity undertakings, your Fe friend tells you a lot about how they are getting along with others, and how billy said such and such, and how he was 'acting'). A Te person will be your friend because you do activities together. Comparitively, Fe types will be friends because they help easily flow in the atmosphere and exressiveness.

Yeah I think that totally makes me Te leading and Fi seeking. My friends always here about my 'progress' or lack there of, etc. My thoughts on it. And I like Fi people who want to know everything about me (only some people, I would not want everyone knowing everything about me, of course). But someone who wants that closeness, etc.

Yes, that did help, I believe.

[olduser]

i could be wrong though- keep that in mind. I could have Te and Ti mixed up or some datas are applicable to more than the proposed rational function or maybe not type related. that is why i wish more people would provide input/critique. Perhaps better formatting would help.

[UDP]

Formatting the title? Or the question?

Yeah. I am looking for more input to. The people may not be online.


(aside: I have been looking at types for myself, and I am fairly sure I am not alpha/beta/fe/merry - but rather gamma/delta/fi/serious)

[Expat]

Like, how they see you. Acquaintance, close friend, good friend. Relationship status.


Like sometimes when our executive board would do things, there would be a bunch of alpha Fe and Si, but I never really felt like I was a part of it. Particularly in the after - work sort of get togethers. Or like, recently, someone from another organization called, and, I was not sure if she was interested in seeing me because she wanted to talk about what we are doing next semester, of if she just wanted to see me because she is nice like that (alpha SF), or what. I relate to people professionally well - like if there is something and there is a task to do, it does not bother me to call or talk to anyone, or anything like that. But personally, it is difficult in what to make of things.



What would be an indication of Fi dual seeking then?

As Joy said, it's an indication of weak Fi generally. I don't agree with all of heath's points.

[tcaudilllg]

Well I should be a bit more descriptive. The way I look at Fi is that it's not just a lack of understanding, but more a lack of confidence. Understanding and Fi to me is not necessary. Someone with Weak Fi can be very perceptive of feeling, even someone's true feeling. But for someone with weak Fi, there is no confidence.

"Feelings don't last, they will abandon, I cannot trust..."

With Weak Fi, relationships with acquaintances are easy, but the closer it gets, the less confidence.

Just as someone who has great intelligence can be insecure in that intelligence, someone of great emotional awareness can be completely paralyzed by it.

Hey... do you think the difference between strong and weak could be enduring vs temporary? That would mean that one actually looks at different manifestations of the elements given their function's weakness or strength....

Have you already had this thought?

trends seem to me equally temporary. However an dominant might say they are just new cases of the same collective theme.

Yeah I think that's it. It's a matter of time. I guess a vulnerable type would say, "well that's how it is now; it may not be that way later."

So now is that what "strong" versus "weak" means? If that's the case, then does that mean strength's effects are not -- should not -- be measured as a continuum? ...This will help my typing efforts in general, I think. Could be possible to make a concrete determination of the function order's logical justification given this data....

[tcaudilllg]

If a person latches on to a temporary feeling as true, then they will be disappointed when the person who has this feeling eventually rejects it in favor of a deeper, time-transient feeling. (like rapport) The pain of the disappointment is a reminder not to use as base. The same goes for : if an INTj believes a collective feeling experience will last, then they will be disappointed unless they receive additional direction from ESFj, who *knows* what is not only popular, but indeed what will *remain* popular. It is our disappointments that create the subjective impetus to put our strong elements before our weak elements. However, the disappointments all owe to people who use our weak elements strongly. (I've learned this from painful experience.)

[Beautiful sky]

Is it Fi dual seeking to shamefully not tolerate certain things in other individuals based on stereotypes that you believe that they may have/posses and voicing these thought in hopes that an Fi will come and say things like "that's not good/bad, right/wrong"?

But at the same time knowing that you have a certain sense of nobleness to you and that you are willing to help others...this would be both Fi valuing and Fi Dual seeking correct?

Do Fi dual seeking people make strange and out of place comments to elicit Fi response?

My understanding of my Fi is that it is ethics and ethics of relationships. Pretty much that is the voice of my conscience and my true personal beliefs about others. Because my introverted ethics is very well developed, I have this need to be moral and correct in my actions to do good things for people and to be conscientious about my sayings, deeds, and actions and when I have not been, I realize the harm that I have incurred and am quick to respond (taking action) to mend or heal bonds between people and myself, and not to forsake humanity.

Someone with an underdeveloped might do anything necessary to reach a goal. Maybe also betraying friends or other highly immoral actions, but someone who values it may say or do things that are out of line but feel ashamed for them but in the same sense, may need a certain sense of guidance?

Also, I've noticed that eventhough ESTp's may value a certain set of morals like being a good person and following some set of values, that they do not value such things as strict honesty.

Is what I'm talking about Fi dual seeking?

[MatthewZ]

Maritsa, after several months of your presence on this forum, many users here have begun to doubt the exist of -DS. It's simply befuddling to think that anyone could possibly seek your behavior. It may produce an anomaly within the mathematically precise Socion, but many of us on this forum see it fitting.

It's simply not productive to comment on such a preposterous idea that only exists in idealized theory. Proverbially, "no one likes you."

I, however, have done you the courtesy of pointing this out. Perhaps it will bring you one step closer to joining the enlightened masses.

[Beautiful sky]

Maritsa, after several months of your presence on this forum, many users here have begun to doubt the exist of -DS. It's simply befuddling to think that anyone could possibly seek your behavior. It may produce an anomaly within the mathematically precise Socion, but many of us on this forum see it fitting.

It's simply not productive to comment on such a preposterous idea that only exists in idealized theory. Proverbially, "no one likes you."

I, however, have done you the courtesy of pointing this out. Perhaps it will bring you one step closer to joining the enlightened masses.

Why don't you just say that it can't be answered?

[MatthewZ]

Why don't you just say that it can't be answered?

It can be answered; an incorrect premise can be followed to a logical conclusion. However, why would we explore a system we already know is false?

[Beautiful sky]

It can be answered; an incorrect premise can be followed to a logical conclusion. However, why would we explore a system we already know is false?

then let's do it...

Fi = watching what a person says as to not hurt other's feelings
Fi DS = not being careful what to say unless pointed out then avoids doing that specific thing as to not hurt other's feelings
Fi ignoring = being able to say exactly what you want whenever even though it will hurt other's feelings.

[MatthewZ]

Do enjoy that. I was merely here to inform you that you are delving into what many would consider superfluous information.

[Beautiful sky]

It can be answered; an incorrect premise can be followed to a logical conclusion. However, why would we explore a system we already know is false?

Wow, I didn't realize it, until just now, that I just ignored a system for "work". So I am Te seeking, DS is ignoring implementing or implemented system to do work (Te)? I just essentially ignored your Ti; it went right over my head for Fi.

"Why would you explore a system we already know is false?"

Because I have hopes that the system is not false. I don't have any doubts that it's not true. As soon as you said that something can be done, I was ready to do it so essentially Te determines if something can be done or not and devises the workflow method.

With you, I am looking forward to you telling me that it can be done and how it can be done, but you seem to be reluctant to say how because you have Ti. Ti doesn't answer to HOW it can be done; Ti only determines it can or not be done. It takes really hard effort for Ti types to show how something can be done, but why?

Te also determines what to do at a given time. What task to do. I don't know what to do at any given time because I get into hobbies that take me and my mind up or am required to do certain things on schedule, but other then that I'm always at a complete loss about what to do next and (as painful it is now to admit) I can't get myself up to do the next thing quickly (essentially, if my dual cousin was around, the next thing would be laid out already and she would direct/or demand for me to do that next thing -therefore being very naturally herself); So Ti does not direct/or demand in all situations just in a formal work environment. They get a lot more down time then Te types.

Ti types don't say what one should do, they kinda follow the same things that I do, some things are done like work and regular routine things and the rest of the time, they spend it on as many frevelous activities as I can.

[Blaze]

Fi dual seeking, all i have to do is think of my LSE mom and it becomes obvious. ok so behaviorally, here's what she does:

• she pays attention to things like thank you notes
• she keeps track of whether or not people reciprocate
• she makes it very important for you to do certain tasks for her, simple tasks, that she could do herself, but it's like she needs you to do them so she knows what the status of the relationship is
• yet she is very child like about relations. she will keep in touch with ex boyfriends for years. she will keep in touch with friends in general for years, friendships that the other person normally would have let go due to outside circumstances such as movng
• she sends letters and emails to everyone, giving thought to your last conversation and offering more suggestions and advice

there are probably more, but i can't think of any. my mother's dual seeking is a big part of her, esp when you see her in action socially. it's real. i'm not sure how my father (EII) helps her since often times he's off in an intuitive cloud, but i think these actions are signs of Fi dual seeking.