Fi PoLR - Misunderstood

[Ezra]

yeah I don't know. age could have something to do with it too. Like an older, mature SLE might know through experience that he should try to evaluate the emotions of others, especially in his important relationships, even if he's not good at it. for instance, the SLE I'm friends with (who is older) will sometimes ask me if I'm okay if I sigh or give a look. I mean, not very often but I can tell he notices my emotional state and will sometimes just ask straight out. but not if we're in a crowd, only if we're alone or on the phone. *shrug*

I think you may be onto something there.

Let me get back to you in twenty years time and I'll let you know how my relationships have evolved.

To me Fi is more about relationships and links, than emotional states, the level of relationships and its type. To me emotional state of a person is more temporary, something that can change more quickly. Evaluation of it probably relates to Fe as it seems to be more flexible. I guess I just dislike the way its worded, maybe the essence is the same.

I guess you're right.

Id say weak Fi manifests in ENTp's and ESTp's differently. First ones can be too friendly with people who don't care about them and be too cold with one's that do but aren't showing it. ESTp's I think can overstep personal boundaries and they do so if it suits them, however not always conciously. Not sure if I can put it in better words. Maybe that's not how you see/feel it, but then Id be interested on whats your take on it.

I completely agree with this. I think we have an innate issue with treating everyone like our "friends". I remember a cringeworthy moment where I walked into this guy's room at a party, and started scrolling through his Media Player to see what music he was into. He was in the room at the time, with some friends, and he asked me to leave repeatedly, and I just said I wanted to check his music out. Then someone came in who he let through, and I said "that's nepotism", and I told him to look it up the next day.

The worst part was I went upstairs and did the same again in someone else's room. I was forcibly removed this time. Obviously part of it was drunkenness, but part of it was definitely something else - it was about a complete disregard for personal relations. The very fact that I brought this guy up on "nepotism" was testament to the fact that I was completely unable to see the reason why he would let a friend into his room and not me.

[redbaron]

that's funny, Ezra. Yeah I think my SLE friend can be a little bit that way. I used to think he thought we were better friends than we were. And now that we ARE better friends, it sometimes feels like he didn't get the memo and things haven't changed for him even though they kinda have, from my perspective. hard to describe. It's like he has a static view of our relationship and I have a dynamic view.

[Ezra]

that's funny, Ezra. Yeah I think my SLE friend can be a little bit that way. I used to think he thought we were better friends than we were. And now that we ARE better friends, it sometimes feels like he didn't get the memo and things haven't changed for him even though they kinda have, from my perspective. hard to describe. It's like he has a static view of our relationship and I have a dynamic view.

Yeah, I can imagine.

[Brilliand]

The Aggressor want is a Sensor want - something you want to have or do, not a relationship or an emotional reaction to something. The relationship necessary to "have" that person would be more difficult for an SLE.

Note that this is probably related to Tactical/Strategic, so an creative would have more difficulty knowing what they want.

[redbaron]

I have always loved that poem (in your sig), Starfall.

[Banana Pancakes]

To me Fi is more about relationships and links, than emotional states, the level of relationships and its type. To me emotional state of a person is more temporary, something that can change more quickly. Evaluation of it probably relates to Fe as it seems to be more flexible. I guess I just dislike the way its worded, maybe the essence is the same.

Id say weak Fi manifests in ENTp's and ESTp's differently. First ones can be too friendly with people who don't care about them and be too cold with one's that do but aren't showing it. ESTp's I think can overstep personal boundaries and they do so if it suits them, however not always conciously. Not sure if I can put it in better words. Maybe that's not how you see/feel it, but then Id be interested on whats your take on it.

This.

[Satan]

yeah I don't know. age could have something to do with it too. Like an older, mature SLE might know through experience that he should try to evaluate the emotions of others, especially in his important relationships, even if he's not good at it. for instance, the SLE I'm friends with (who is older) will sometimes ask me if I'm okay if I sigh or give a look. I mean, not very often but I can tell he notices my emotional state and will sometimes just ask straight out. but not if we're in a crowd, only if we're alone or on the phone. *shrug*

When I was a lot young, I used to always ask if people were okay. In groups, in crowds, etc etc. .. blah blah

But then I also used to be like "What the fuck's wrong with you" to people, and sometimes people would "point out" to me, that I'd make a big deal out of "little" things. Like one little doubt, or one little uncertainty, before people had even "realised" themself that they were unsure, I was already wanting to "resolve" the problem. And that sometimes I should just let things play out. And let people come to realise themself.

Anyway, I suppose when I realised what I was doing, I would back off a little. But I think it has something to do with a kind of uncertainty that people will deal with things on their own probably... a lack of faith in others ...

It's like other people have to keep "showing" that they'll deal on their own, that they'll get by. That they're not useless.

But yeah, maybe I'm different because I like doing that with "more" people rather than less. And I don't like giving people too much attention or they kind of get a little hampered by it. And it can be suffocating.

[redbaron]

wanting to resolve the problem..... yeah... get all the doubts out of the way to make way for action.

[Satan]

or just to make me more comfortable.

around the same time i had the notion that girls didn't like action -- their heart may race a little, and they may get self-conscious
and want to do something "safe". like gossip about what other people are doing.

[redbaron]

or just to make me more comfortable.

eh, okay. (I just wanted an excuse to use that "indifferent" icon, hehe)

[Satan]

eh, okay. (I just wanted an excuse to use that "indifferent" icon, hehe)

what indifferent icon. the icons are so small.

[Satan]

redbaron .. if you're indifferent you must be hiding something bigger ..

[redbaron]

redbaron .. if you're indifferent you must be hiding something bigger ..

sounds like you want it resolved. :wink:

[Satan]

sounds like you want it resolved. :wink:

want what resolved.

[redbaron]

want what resolved.

I dunno, the mystery of what I'm hiding, that's bigger.

it was just a joke. fell flat.

[Satan]

I dunno, the mystery of what I'm hiding, that's bigger.

it was just a joke. fell flat.

Well resolving it wasn't much fun. Unsolved mysteries are more fun

[Ezra]

An SLE I know will have completely different opinions about whether or not he likes people every day of the week. Something someone does will send him into a heartfelt declaration that he can't deal with someone's way of life; then the next day, he'll say, "Oh no, he's ok, I don't mind him." I thought it was Fi-PoLR combined with Ni-seeking (being too caught up in the moment to see the overall nature of his relationships with other people).

lol, maybe my EIE housemate is SLE after all - he does this exactly.

[Satan]

An SLE I know will have completely different opinions about whether or not he likes people every day of the week. Something someone does will send him into a heartfelt declaration that he can't deal with someone's way of life; then the next day, he'll say, "Oh no, he's ok, I don't mind him." I thought it was Fi-PoLR combined with Ni-seeking (being too caught up in the moment to see the overall nature of his relationships with other people).

I DO THIS

[Satan]

I used to get kind of told off for it.

Although when *I* tell people off they seem to cower and want to get away more. For me it's more like uhh, that's nice dear.

[redbaron]

I used to get kind of told off for it.

Although when *I* tell people off they seem to cower and want to get away more. For me it's more like uhh, that's nice dear.

[Creepy-]

I have seen Fi-PoLR discussed here in connection with accidentally offending others or accidentally damaging Fi bonds with them, and obviously in not being sure of them in the first place... I'm not sure I've seen it discussed in quite this way, though. Here is what I've been observing:

There's an ILE guy who recently broke up with his girlfriend of more than a year [they're both pretty young]. They still talk and hang out regularly, and he considers them to be "just friends," while she has openly said that she wants to be involved w him romantically. The thing is, the ILE - seemingly without realizing it - appears [to me] to be leading her on. They still talk and hang out regularly, and he does sweet things just for her [for example, today was her birthday, and he baked her a cake and took her out to dinner, just the two of them]. But he still considers her a friend and thinks of himself as indisputably single [he's not dating anyone else, but I get the impression that he would if he met someone he considered special].

When I see them together I can tell that she is holding onto hope that they will get back together [and maybe she even thinks they are together in a way], while he says they are not and will not get together again. What do you think - I am thinking this is an example of weak Fi blinding the ILE to the fact that the things he is doing and the way he is behaving are affecting her impression of the relationship... thoughts? Has anyone else observed something like this?



EDIT: And there's always the possibility that he is aware of what he is doing and is playing some kind of game, but I know him pretty well and don't think that is the case; he seemed genuinely surprised and a little dismayed when I suggested that he might be making her think that he wants more than friendship bc of the way he acts.

[Lobo]

This is exactly what I perceived with my friend in high school. It's like he didn't know that by his actions he was leading a girl on. He is very openly affectionate to people.

[xerx]

op's bogus. here is why: nobody would date an ile.

[Lobo]

op's bogus. here is why: nobody would date an ile.

And why is that? Unless you are saying that as a joke.

[Waddlesworth]

op's bogus. here is why: nobody would date an ile.

has anyone ever dated you? How did it go?

[matilda]

yep i think weak and or unvalued Fi. it's the same w gift giving. being unsure if you are close enough w someone to be giving them gifts.

[Marie84]

EDIT: And there's always the possibility that he is aware of what he is doing and is playing some kind of game, but I know him pretty well and don't think that is the case; he seemed genuinely surprised and a little dismayed when I suggested that he might be making her think that he wants more than friendship bc of the way he acts.

ILE's and SLE's do tend to do this a lot, where they'll be bewildered as to why someone said or reacted to them a certain way since they had no idea they had crossed any "boundaries", so to speak
Being Fi PoLR must be a life full of surprises, not knowing how someone will react...maybe they'll laugh, get angry, blush, smack you. It's a barrel of fun!

[Creepy-male]

It's a barrel of fun!

Or bewilderment, both at your own feelings and the feelings of others. And insecurity too.

[jason_m]

op's bogus. here is why: nobody would date an ile.

Or an LII for that matter.

Jason

[Simon Ssmall]

Heh, when love matters are at stake if is quite situational how I act. Normally I still show quite some attention which gradually declines and there are certain emotional distance I keep straight away in order not to confuse the person. In other words I act more colder and gradually spend less time. However sometimes people still manage to imagine they can come back into my life and when I see it I offer to break any contact and explain it would be easier for everyone (that happened only once actually, but it did). Either way I knew how to keep distance and not hurt people more or bring false hope.

And maybe this is projection but I tend to assume people see those things the same way I do, which can lead me to be a little shy sometimes at the beginning of a relationship if I'm not sure how the other person feels, lest I show them how much I like them w things that would be clear indications in my mind [but in reality probably not so much to someone else], only to freak them out or make myself too vulnerable.... which is kind of funny bc they are probably not thinking of those things in the same way at all, so that "risk" is more in my own head....

Heh, I always appear shy in the beginning and after thinking how I appear I am very much the same way. Thing is I don't feel myself as shy per se, I just keep safe distance and am not showing my true self, being tactful and sort of "neutral". It takes time before I feel myself freely and I know the person.

[Steve]

I have seen Fi-PoLR discussed here in connection with accidentally offending others or accidentally damaging Fi bonds with them, and obviously in not being sure of them in the first place... I'm not sure I've seen it discussed in quite this way, though. Here is what I've been observing:

There's an ILE guy who recently broke up with his girlfriend of more than a year [they're both pretty young]. They still talk and hang out regularly, and he considers them to be "just friends," while she has openly said that she wants to be involved w him romantically. The thing is, the ILE - seemingly without realizing it - appears [to me] to be leading her on. They still talk and hang out regularly, and he does sweet things just for her [for example, today was her birthday, and he baked her a cake and took her out to dinner, just the two of them]. But he still considers her a friend and thinks of himself as indisputably single [he's not dating anyone else, but I get the impression that he would if he met someone he considered special].

When I see them together I can tell that she is holding onto hope that they will get back together [and maybe she even thinks they are together in a way], while he says they are not and will not get together again. What do you think - I am thinking this is an example of weak Fi blinding the ILE to the fact that the things he is doing and the way he is behaving are affecting her impression of the relationship... thoughts? Has anyone else observed something like this?



EDIT: And there's always the possibility that he is aware of what he is doing and is playing some kind of game, but I know him pretty well and don't think that is the case; he seemed genuinely surprised and a little dismayed when I suggested that he might be making her think that he wants more than friendship bc of the way he acts.

This is really weird and ironic you brought this up. I was just reflecting on how I think I do this. It's happened on more than one occasion with girls who I've just been friendly toward and also with gay guys who I simply wanted to be friendly with, and nothing more. I feel like though with the latter it gets even more difficult for the other person because if I'm friends with a gay guy, when I'm talking with him, a lot of the time I forget he's even gay, so I'm just talking with him with the kind of relaxed-ness that I would another straight male, being casual, laid back, even jokingly jabbing. So I guess I can imagine how that could be taken. Whereas when I'm talking with a girl who I don't want to be anything more than friends with, I still talk to them like a girl, and idk, it's still not quite as relaxed and inhibition free as when I bullshit with male friends.

But overall with this stuff and where relationships and boundaries stand, I generally need them explicitly defined, and usually look to even explicitly define them myself to avoid confusion. Probably being a 6 adds to this.

[redbaron]

yes. you've hit the nail on the head.

[glam]

i'm so down and pessimistic on it right now.


maybe i'm just focusing too much on the negative aspects i've seen from it... how easily opportunistic they are even at the expense of other's feelings... how they can view relationships as transient and impermanent and disposable... disrespecting boundaries... thinking they're in love when they're really not... hurting you (badly) first to avoid getting hurt themselves...


tell me something good about it!

[DirectorAbbie]

Um...you're not inconveniently affected by others' feelings.

[xerx]

Oh crap. I hope it wasn't something I did.

[Azeroffs]

Probably the most entertaining T type. Will do all your shit for you? Te-demo

[Azeroffs]

What do you think about the following? Okay, it's not good per se, but it's explanatory I think:

So Fi-PoLRs just ignore relationship problems? Kind like just hoping it goes away?

How do IFp's feel about this? lol

[Azeroffs]

Sounds like SLEs just end it, while ILE tries to smooth things out and will forgive. It's from that Reinin paper I've been skimming through. Haven't decided what I think about it yet.

That can't be right.. How does SLE/IEI work if SLE will just leave if there is a problem?

Do you think it could be that IEI will make distance when problems arise putting SLE in pursuit mode? I could see that. Maybe it's similar with ILE/SEI?

Personally, I love working out relationship problems, but I need all feelings out on the table so that I can do something. I'm thinking that xEIs don't typically come out with their real feelings or put much emphasis on them in relationships and that xLE/xEI just ignore their problems and let Fe smooth everything out.

"As long as we're having fun then there's no problem."

[tereg]

Something good about it? I can supply it!

[Rubicon]

That can't be right.. How does SLE/IEI work if SLE will just leave if there is a problem?

Do you think it could be that IEI will make distance when problems arise putting SLE in pursuit mode? I could see that. Maybe it's similar with ILE/SEI?

Personally, I love working out relationship problems, but I need all feelings out on the table so that I can do something. I'm thinking that xEIs don't typically come out with their real feelings or put much emphasis on them in relationships and that xLE/xEI just ignore their problems and let Fe smooth everything out.

Yeah.. just spread peanut butter in the cracks. lol Why are you talking like Fi is about real feelings and Fe isn't?

"As long as we're having fun then there's no problem."