Fi PoLR - Misunderstood

[Lord Pixel]

Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...?Because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh with that nonsense!

I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.

[kingslayer]

Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh.

I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.

That just sounds like a stupid asshole more than Fi Polr. But I guess Fi polr in an extreme can look like that.

[FDG]

Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh.

I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.

All ExTx types can be the way you describe...

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

@sbbds could it be that she thinks of that as praise? maybe in her mind it seems that disclosing that to your superiors gives you confidentiality/inclusiveness points? have you typed them?

[Hermit Soul]

This thread reminds me of this news I read, about this brash, womanizing, millionaire, Yuan Gang, who had 100 girlfriends and he got murdered by his cousin and his body got chopped up into pieces all because he wanted to marry his cousin's daughter, and the daughter is already married to another man.

That wealthy man who got murdered is an SLE. He is quite misunderstood indeed, he fell in love with his dual type who happens to be his family member and he wanted to marry her but instead he ended up getting killed for having such incestuous desires.

[mu4]

Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh.

I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.

Actually it even sounds like you're describing a EXFX in this. Fi polr don't really apologize.

The reality is XLE's are very protective of people, the whole fucking description of XLE is that they go out of their way to protect people they care about.

Also the second part describes victim mentality, which is a totally different dynamic than the straight forward way Fi polrs operate.

It's also much more comfortable for EXFX to act this way because they feel confidant in their ability to manage relations vs Fi polrs. Fi polr types tend have serious problems letting loose, and they are much more reserved unless they're trying to accomplish something.

[sbbds]

@sbbds could it be that she thinks of that as praise? maybe in her mind it seems that disclosing that to your superiors gives you confidentiality/inclusiveness points? have you typed them?

The superior she disclosed that to was only one SLE actually. That SLE then disclosed that piece of info to our ESE HR boss lol.

This LIE coworker of mine has also complained to me about her own friends, which is hella ratchet and unappealing. She’s told me that she dislikes our SEE manager as a person. This SEE is someone I have to deal with for half the week, and everybody else I know at my workplace likes him, including me so far. Meanwhile, this LIE and I are not even close. She doesn’t understand regular boundaries for closeness IMO.

She smartly also disclosed to me that she hates cleaning up other people’s messes. So I left a bunch of shit for her to clean up the last time I saw her. I literally don’t give a shit anymore lol.

[Lord Pixel]

,

[Lord Pixel]

All ExTx types can be the way you describe...

I haven't experienced this with all EXTXs. EXTjs have a different flavor which is much less trolly than what I described. Te is a blunt force, Ti is internal bleeding.

Actually it even sounds like you're describing a EXFX in this. Fi polr don't really apologize.

The reality is XLE's are very protective of people, the whole fucking description of XLE is that they go out of their way to protect people they care about.

Also the second part describes victim mentality, which is a totally different dynamic than the straight forward way Fi polrs operate.

It's also much more comfortable for EXFX to act this way because they feel confidant in their ability to manage relations vs Fi polrs. Fi polr types tend have serious problems letting loose, and they are much more reserved unless they're trying to accomplish something.

You're right, they don't apologize, as for the rest I'm sorry but no, I'm talking about Fi PoLR.

That just sounds like a stupid asshole more than Fi Polr. But I guess Fi polr in an extreme can look like that.

Fi PoLR 7w8 does sound like a stupid asshole doesn't it? Can't blame them really, it's the way they are, just if you value Fi get far tf away from them.

[kingslayer]

Fi PoLR 7w8 does sound like a stupid asshole doesn't it? Can't blame them really, it's the way they are, just if you value Fi get far tf away from them.

I guess if left unhealthy. I think a healthy person of any type would be rather pleasant to deal with or be around. Or at least one that takes time to try and be healthy.

You can blame someone that acts like that. Just because they have Fi Polr doesn't excuse them to treat people like shit and with double standards. A healthy individual with Fi polr will try to work on these faults.

[Lord Pixel]

I guess if left unhealthy. I think a healthy person of any type would be rather pleasant to deal with or be around. Or at least one that takes time to try and be healthy.

You can blame someone that acts like that. Just because they have Fi Polr doesn't excuse them to treat people like shit and with double standards. A healthy individual with Fi polr will try to work on these faults.

Healthy for different people with different ways of thinking looks and is different. Fi PoLR 7w8 likes to play very rough, it's not unhealthy for them to do so, it's just not everybody is like that, calibration is required to know how rough you can play with someone, but when left to their natural state they find it refreshing when they meet someone they can play rough with, so I don't think it's unhealthy. The double standard thing is not conscious, they play rough but they consider it still playing so they don't expect ppl to take it seriously and actually stop liking them. It's not always the Fi PoLR person that has the double standard either, it could be anybody that see's you behaving different that you normally do, "The nice person is being mean? what?". Either way, since the PoLR is a blindspot it can't be expected that the person will actively work on the "fault". It's not doomed of course, it's just gonna take alot of you banging your head against a wall until you realize it's even there.

[sbbds]

Healthy for different people with different ways of thinking looks and is different. Fi PoLR 7w8 likes to play very rough, it's not unhealthy for them to do so, it's just not everybody is like that, calibration is required to know how rough you can play with someone, but when left to their natural state they find it refreshing when they meet someone they can play rough with, so I don't think it's unhealthy. The double standard thing is not conscious, they play rough but they consider it still playing so they don't expect ppl to take it seriously and actually stop liking them. It's not always the Fi PoLR person that has the double standard either, it could be anybody that see's you behaving different that you normally do, "The nice person is being mean? what?". Either way, since the PoLR is a blindspot it can't be expected that the person will actively work on the "fault". It's not doomed of course, it's just gonna take alot of you banging your head against a wall until you realize it's even there.

I think if they are gonna talk about your dead mother and say “don’t be a pussy bro, we’re still bros right” and be really confident about it, and 7w8-like like that, then it’s far more likely that they’re ExFx as @mu4 said. That would imply a person who is confident about emotions and relationships, and Fi polr is not.

Maybe I could see some people like @Number 9 large (no offense lol), or 10 year olds, acting like that at first, but if you really got hurt and you guys were bros then he’d be really embarrassed and apologize, or if you weren’t that close he’d just give up over you being offended and leave, embarrassed and weirded out I bet. But the key point here is that even really “bro” Fi polrs actually aren’t confident relationally, and if you criticize them or give them reasons to doubt themselves in this area then 9 times out of 10 they will buckle. That’s the point of PoLR.

[sbbds]

Here’s a better example of Fi polr that shaped my self-image a lot and I’ll never forget it:

When I was around 11 years old, I had an ESI friend who used to be my best friend (but actually she betrayed me before this event, but I got over it and we still hung out), whose dad passed away when she was very young. We were playing “would you rather?” at a friend’s house, and I unconsciously asked her the question—

“Would you rather have sex with your dad, or (have it with some kind of animal or other unappealing thing)?”

And obviously she burst into tears, and then I REALIZED and felt really bad. This event mortified me for life.

So sometimes I just run my mouth and don’t think about small but often important sensitive details like this. It’s not that I don’t care, it’s that I forget or it doesn’t enter into my consciousness, so I can unintentionally come across as rough and insensitive when I’m not being careful.

[sbbds]

Or this: A few months ago, one of my ESE managers (not the aforementioned one) was sharing about an INTx friend and date she had. He was really socially awkward and a medical student and she was outlining stories about him to us and half complaining about him. My office is pretty casual and I was tired so I wasn’t really very focused. At that point I said something like, “maybe he can discover a cure for his autism”. Then all of my coworkers went silent for a second before my manager luckily replied with something naturally and calmly.

So I accidentally joked with my BOSS that her date had autism. I’m unconsciously oriented to saying stuff to “entertain” in an Se, Fe HA way, but it’s overly unprofessional, stupid and insensitive sometimes.

[ashlesha]

I once was talking to a woman with kids from 4 different fathers about my romantic plans when I said, "... but I don't want to be one of those women who has kids from a bunch of dudes." Lol.
That's probably my worst example, but it's not the only one. I get the broader point about accidental insensitivity in general, but I'm allegedly ESI, so if u mess up you're not alone ~

[sbbds]

I once was talking to a woman with kids from 4 different fathers about my romantic plans when I said, "... but I don't want to be one of those women who has kids from a bunch of dudes." Lol.
That's probably my worst example, but it's not the only one. I get the broader point about accidental insensitivity in general, but I'm allegedly ESI, so if u mess up you're not alone ~

LOL

Yeah I understand that other people can mess up too. I think there’s a lot that’s misunderstood about PoLR in general. It’s supposed to be a point of sensitivity for the individual. In reality though everyone messes up sometimes. I’m supposed to be Se but I’ve been a fat, weak victim before. Being sensitive and insecure can also lead people to work hard to make up for it (what usually happens with the HA) and it can lead them to end up becoming gifted in the area they used to feel weak in.

[Lord Pixel]

I think if they are gonna talk about your dead mother and say “don’t be a pussy bro, we’re still bros right” and be really confident about it, and 7w8-like like that, then it’s far more likely that they’re ExFx as @mu4 said. That would imply a person who is confident about emotions and relationships, and Fi polr is not.

Maybe I could see some people like @Number 9 large (no offense lol), or 10 year olds, acting like that at first, but if you really got hurt and you guys were bros then he’d be really embarrassed and apologize, or if you weren’t that close he’d just give up over you being offended and leave, embarrassed and weirded out I bet. But the key point here is that even really “bro” Fi polrs actually aren’t confident relationally, and if you criticize them or give them reasons to doubt themselves in this area then 9 times out of 10 they will buckle. That’s the point of PoLR.

That example wasn't the best, but I'm talking about an Fi PoLR and their ability to say really fucked up things and not think or blink and eye and think it's funny. And the 7w8 really makes them enjoy getting under your skin. And they call you a pussy simply because you have Fi and they can't relate to silent "hurt feelings" "being butthurt" and all that, only huge tear drops coming out your face is when it's clear.

[sbbds]

That example wasn't the best, but I'm talking about an Fi PoLR and their ability to say really fucked up things and not think or blink and eye and think it's funny. And the 7w8 really makes them enjoy getting under your skin. And they call you a pussy simply because you have Fi and they can't relate to silent "hurt feelings" "being butthurt" and all that, only huge tear drops coming out your face is when it's clear.

Have you tried telling them that they are a douchebag and you won’t be their friend anymore?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

The Vulnerable function is rather like the hot water tap in your shower -- it's easy to make the water way too hot, or way too cold, but very difficult to get it "just right". For example, Vulnerable Se types are either way too passive or way too aggressive, and have a hard time being able to tell how much force is "just right" to achieve the results they want in the world. Vulnerable Fi is similar. Fi-Vulnerable types would tend to either keep everyone at too far a distance, relationally, or go overboard and suddenly consider them "best friends" like the above description. They have difficulty accurately assessing Fi matters and finding the "just right" behaviour.

The best word, I think, to describe Vulnerable function behaviour would be "clumsy".

I'm 9 years too late- but whoah. This is seriously like one of the best explanation of PoLRs I've ever heard. It's exactly like that. I remember even at work, insecure about my Te polr- making sure I do everything just right perfectly and not talking about Sonic the Hedgehog fan fiction and just being worldly and businessy and overly formal to the point where I was probably being really creepy TBH, and weirding people out because I wasn't 'lightening up' enough about anything, I would get that a lot. "Aw just lighten up" like ironically telling me to be more Fe stereotypically but it didn't seem appropriate as Te crushes *me*.

[YXPR]

Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...?Because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh with that nonsense!

I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.

This is harsh but I can understand where you’re coming from. Sles can definitely bully people without even realising it. I had a teacher recently who would consistently make jokes about me and about an sle student in class. He was relentless with it. Anytime we would do or say something he would have a remark to make about it. We responded well to it so it wasn’t a problem but other students could have taken offense to it and it would have been a whole other story. The thing is that it didn’t come from a bad place at all. It was very obvious that we were his favorite students actually.

Of course Sles are capable of being mean spirited but most of the time they are just being rude. By that I mean that their behaviour isn’t necessarily coming from a bad place, they just suck at delivering their thoughts with consideration for the emotional well-being of others.

Also I think that not being comfortable with expressing their own emotions can make them more agressive. Kind of like how toxic masculinity works. Anger seems to be only emotion that doesn’t cause shame in people who think of themselves as unemotional so a lot of their statements (and sometimes actions) end up being tinted with agressivity.

[Alonzo]

I think if they are gonna talk about your dead mother and say “don’t be a pussy bro, we’re still bros right” and be really confident about it, and 7w8-like like that, then it’s far more likely that they’re ExFx as @mu4 said. That would imply a person who is confident about emotions and relationships, and Fi polr is not.

Maybe I could see some people like @Number 9 large (no offense lol), or 10 year olds, acting like that at first, but if you really got hurt and you guys were bros then he’d be really embarrassed and apologize, or if you weren’t that close he’d just give up over you being offended and leave, embarrassed and weirded out I bet. But the key point here is that even really “bro” Fi polrs actually aren’t confident relationally, and if you criticize them or give them reasons to doubt themselves in this area then 9 times out of 10 they will buckle. That’s the point of PoLR.

But wouldn't asking "we're still bros, right?" show a lack of confidence in the relationship seeing as that had to be asked? High D Fi shouldn't have to ask because it's capable of accurately gauging the psychological distance between itself and others; it knows whether a relationship is still good or not.

Fi valuers, as a group, are less inclined to openly and freely wear and share our feelings, as far as explicitly communicating them through our faces and words (unless we are authentically overcome with some sentiment). And Fe valuers, especially the low D Fi breed, rely on feelings to be clearly expressed in order to know where they stand with you--in absence of this, they might not know that they've offended you or that you're hurt/bothered. I agree with you that Fi PoLR types are likely to regret or show some degree of remorse if they know for a fact or can readily discern that they've hurt you (especially if they care about you) but I can see how this can cause some trouble when you're dealing with clashing function preferences and dimensions.

An SLE friend once caught me shedding a thug tear (single tear drop on a stoic, dead pan face) and he told me rather callously that I'd be winning no Academy award for my unconvincing performance. lol Meanwhile, I was super embarrassed for what I believed was a moment of devastating vulnerability. He was disinclined to believe my suffering because I wasn't more histrionic and affected. I remember thinking to myself, "you, motherfucker, are not a safe space." lol But that same friend would literally kill to protect me or would give me the shirt off of his back if I needed it. And I've seen him cry with others who were crying and visibly shaken. I know that he has feelings and can respond to feelings, it's just that they have to be expressed/communicated/articulated in an unambiguous way in order for him to receive them as such--he's not going to automatically guess at someone's feeling state or perspective (like I'm also inclined not to do immediately but might do eventually, and even if wrong and completely out of my element because I actually value Fi). I don't need to be able to read the emotion on someone's face (though it is helpful), I just need their actions to be consistent with our relationship/what they allegedly feel for me. When I walk through a door, people who love me don't necessarily have to be ostensibly "happy" to see me so long as they're there to see me, which I'd take as an act of love and "happiness" with our relationship.

[sbbds]

I saw it as a trolly rhetorical question lol @Alonzo . If it were a genuine question then yes Fi polr lol.

[Lord Pixel]

But wouldn't asking "we're still bros, right?" show a lack of confidence in the relationship seeing as that had to be asked? High D Fi shouldn't have to ask because it's capable of accurately gauging the psychological distance between itself and others; it knows whether a relationship is still good or not.

Fi valuers, as a group, are less inclined to openly and freely wear and share our feelings, as far as explicitly communicating them through our faces and words (unless we are authentically overcome with some sentiment). And Fe valuers, especially the low D Fi breed, rely on feelings to be clearly expressed in order to know where they stand with you--in absence of this, they might not know that they've offended you or that you're hurt/bothered. I agree with you that Fi PoLR types are likely to regret or show some degree of remorse if they know for a fact or can readily discern that they've hurt you (especially if they care about you) but I can see how this can cause some trouble when you're dealing with clashing function preferences and dimensions.

An SLE friend once caught me shedding a thug tear (single tear drop on a stoic, dead pan face) and he told me rather callously that I'd be winning no Academy award for my unconvincing performance. lol Meanwhile, I was super embarrassed for what I believed was a moment of devastating vulnerability. He was disinclined to believe my suffering because I wasn't more histrionic and affected. I remember thinking to myself, "you, motherfucker, are not a safe space." lol But that same friend would literally kill to protect me or would give me the shirt off of his back if I needed it. And I've seen him cry with others who were crying and visibly shaken. I know that he has feelings and can respond to feelings, it's just that they have to be expressed/communicated/articulated in an unambiguous way in order for him to receive them as such--he's not going to automatically guess at someone's feeling state or perspective (like I'm also inclined not to do immediately but might do eventually, and even if wrong and completely out of my element because I actually value Fi). I don't need to be able to read the emotion on someone's face (though it is helpful), I just need their actions to be consistent with our relationship/what they allegedly feel for me. When I walk through a door, people who love me don't necessarily have to be ostensibly "happy" to see me so long as they're there to see me, which I'd take as an act of love and "happiness" with our relationship.

That's what I was thinking after I read the responses also. I had an ILE roomate who occasionaly would ask me things like "So I'm you're best friend right?" "Where do I rank on your friend's list?" ( I know that sounds weird but in the context of the convo it wasn't). Like he had to check in with me because he wanted to know. At the time it was strange for me because I cudn't understand how he did not know considering the "vibe" between us. And that's what I mean't when I said Fi PoLR can do screwed up things to you and still ask things like "We are best friends right?" thinking you are still gonna like them after the completely screwed up thing they did, which blows my mind.

Have you tried telling them that they are a douchebag and you won’t be their friend anymore?

Yes and they look at me like "We're not friends anymore....?" sad look. Like wtf it's not my fault ur an asshat, they should have seen that coming. But my guess is Fi PoLR can't really see how their actions influence the relationship or something? Or where the relationship stands if the F is silent, which makes sense except treating someone like shit and not knowing they are gonna bail on you (even if they never say anything about how you treat them) is kinda like....how do you not see that coming? But it's probably all the nature of the PoLR.

I'm 9 years too late- but whoah. This is seriously like one of the best explanation of PoLRs I've ever heard. It's exactly like that. I remember even at work, insecure about my Te polr- making sure I do everything just right perfectly and not talking about Sonic the Hedgehog fan fiction and just being worldly and businessy and overly formal to the point where I was probably being really creepy TBH, and weirding people out because I wasn't 'lightening up' enough about anything, I would get that a lot. "Aw just lighten up" like ironically telling me to be more Fe stereotypically but it didn't seem appropriate as Te crushes *me*.

That quote about vulnerable Fi make ssooooo muuuuuuccch seeeeeense. Yes I've see the 0-60 best friends behavior, it's like whiplash. And of course I know what PoLR Se is like, someone busts your balls, at first it's funny haha, then after a few hundred times of you doing nothing someone says "One day he is gonna stab you in your sleep." I've heard that a few times. Ecept what really happens is I just over-react, sometimes to something small, and create and awkward situation, in reality it looks like I am overreaction to something small but I actually reacting to a history of bad treatment that has never been reacted to up until now.

[Lord Pixel]

Or this: A few months ago, one of my ESE managers (not the aforementioned one) was sharing about an INTx friend and date she had. He was really socially awkward and a medical student and she was outlining stories about him to us and half complaining about him. My office is pretty casual and I was tired so I wasn’t really very focused. At that point I said something like, “maybe he can discover a cure for his autism”. Then all of my coworkers went silent for a second before my manager luckily replied with something naturally and calmly.

So I accidentally joked with my BOSS that her date had autism. I’m unconsciously oriented to saying stuff to “entertain” in an Se, Fe HA way, but it’s overly unprofessional, stupid and insensitive sometimes.

Eeeeeexactly. Except my roomate would say this shit about me, to me, every week, and excepted to be "best man" if I ever got married, wtf. And not about some fake autism, but about real things I told him in confidence, so fck me for being a genius to do that.

Here’s a better example of Fi polr that shaped my self-image a lot and I’ll never forget it:

When I was around 11 years old, I had an ESI friend who used to be my best friend (but actually she betrayed me before this event, but I got over it and we still hung out), whose dad passed away when she was very young. We were playing “would you rather?” at a friend’s house, and I unconsciously asked her the question—

“Would you rather have sex with your dad, or (have it with some kind of animal or other unappealing thing)?”

And obviously she burst into tears, and then I REALIZED and felt really bad. This event mortified me for life.

So sometimes I just run my mouth and don’t think about small but often important sensitive details like this. It’s not that I don’t care, it’s that I forget or it doesn’t enter into my consciousness, so I can unintentionally come across as rough and insensitive when I’m not being careful.

No see, there's a difference between forgetting, and doing that on purpose. if you KNEW her dad died, and REMEMBERED it and said that to f with her, then yea screw you, but just forgetting is an honest mistake. There are ppl that KNOW and REMEMBER and say things on purpose to cut you deep like that and still call themselves you're friend.




Anyway, I'm gonna stop bitching and moaning about all this because I could be here all day and even I'm getting tired of my same old complaints.

[sbbds]

@Lord Pixel I get it but those are pretty rookie mistakes that Fi polr guys would mostly make in say high school. Maybe college for ILE. I can’t really imagine adults making mistakes like that and being functional. A lot of the time it’s more subtle. Then again I have met a handful of really out there SLE guys.

[Aramas]

Fi PoLR is simply this: when someone sympathizes or resonates with your emotional state (or, contrarily, if they display the exact opposite of your emotional state), you are more likely to give no resistance to their request -- or it's more likely that your emotional state will be altered by the other person.

Fi PoLR has little to nothing to do with being socially acceptable or a rude asshole.

There are plenty of people with strong Fi who are complete jerks.

[The Reality Denialist]

probably easiest way to demonstrate Fi PoLR is to listen when ILE is suddenly talking about hypothetical nth order rate law of kinetics because that juices him up. You really need to search people who can really find some sort of personal meaning in it but hey I know SEI's who get jazzed up and paradoxically even ILI's. SLI's otoh tend to scratch their head and LII's just are puzzled by their detachment of lyfe but..

[Lord Pixel]

Fi PoLR is simply this: when someone sympathizes or resonates with your emotional state (or, contrarily, if they display the exact opposite of your emotional state), you are more likely to give no resistance to their request -- or it's more likely that your emotional state will be altered by the other person.

Fi PoLR has little to nothing to do with being socially acceptable or a rude asshole.

There are plenty of people with strong Fi who are complete jerks.

Fi PoLR has alot to do with being a rude asshole that doesn't know they are being a rude asshole, or doesn't care. Just like Se PoLR has alot to do with XII being a push over or too passive and afraid of confrontation. I understand trying to defend types and what not, I truly get it, I don't want to or like to generalize, but I have experienced it first hand way to well to say it has nothing to do with it, it's not all that as to do with it ofc but it definitely has to do with it. And ofc goes without saying all types can be jerks.

[sbbds]

Fi PoLR is simply this: when someone sympathizes or resonates with your emotional state (or, contrarily, if they display the exact opposite of your emotional state), you are more likely to give no resistance to their request -- or it's more likely that your emotional state will be altered by the other person.

Fi PoLR has little to nothing to do with being socially acceptable or a rude asshole.

There are plenty of people with strong Fi who are complete jerks.

Fi PoLR has alot to do with being a rude asshole that doesn't know they are being a rude asshole, or doesn't care. Just like Se PoLR has alot to do with XII being a push over or too passive and afraid of confrontation. I understand trying to defend types and what not, I truly get it, I don't want to or like to generalize, but I have experienced it first hand way to well to say it has nothing to do with it, it's not all that as to do with it ofc but it definitely has to do with it. And ofc goes without saying all types can be jerks.

I think these are both true in a sense and are related. If you think about it, if you just let yourself be bowled over by the emotions of others all the time it builds up and you have to assert yourself in retaliation, which leads to wanting to be an asshole in self-defense / for revenge in many cases.

[Aramas]

I think these are both true in a sense and are related. If you think about it, if you just let yourself be bowled over by the emotions of others all the time it builds up and you have to assert yourself in retaliation, which leads to wanting to be an asshole in self-defense / for revenge in many cases.

I can see the retaliatory perspective. Se polrs are similar in how they use force sometimes.

[sbbds]

I can see the retaliatory perspective. Se polrs are similar in how they use force sometimes.

What other reasons can you think of for Fi polrs leading to being seen as rude assholes? Is it mostly that, or something else? Because I do think @Lord Pixel is right in that there’s a real correlation, at least with how we’re being perceived by others, that can’t just be ignored.

[remiges]

Perhaps if you yourself do not know how your internal state relates to something said, you can’t realize it’s effect on others’ internal states?

[sbbds]

Perhaps if you yourself do not know how your internal state relates to something said, you can’t realize it’s effect on others’ internal states?

I think that’s very close. It’s probably more like what’s said/done before it is executed (due to lower Ni or Si—less experience there as well).

I think not knowing how one’s internal state *relates* to what is said would be more like Fe polr (although, Fi polr and other logical types more likely wouldn’t be that great at it either). Ep types who are good at seeing external static relationships should be able to see how those things relate more easily if they are made conscious of them.

I think it has to do with lowered consciousness about one’s own, and others’ internal states (lower Ni, Si, Fi) in a more general sense. Not knowing how things relate is definitely one part of it, but a minor one IMO in the grand scheme of things. Basically we are more likely to be callous or unaware towards our own and others’ internal states, and if they are being manipulated or altered subconsciously by our environment we can’t control it as much, so we are more likely to just regurgitate bullshit without even thinking about it. I do think that Fi polr represents a person who has learned or decided, and/or was made to become callous towards themselves and by extension others, for various possible reasons. It doesn’t mean that we can’t, but we are extremely adverse to accessing that deeper part of ourselves for whatever reason, because it’s like a minefield at times full of AIDS-soaked shards of glass. Maybe I’ll post more later if I have more thoughts.

@Heretic 007 @mu4 Please inform if you have any feedback.

[The Reality Denialist]

OK, I can give you real example with ESI. ESI: "I don't get your relations. You just put out analytical interpretation." As I was discussing it seemed like the person (ESI) couldn't understand my relations and as a matter of fact not many can. How I see it internally? I'm fairly secure and do not ask questions and I know how the person is functioning logically but I just don't have lot of interests in winning or loosing in personal game. I care more about the person than I care how he/she relates to me. So I do things for free without expecting payback and it can be quite heavy mouthed honesty not in terms what they do but what the action might give. It is quite hard to just be friends in terms of picking up lice from each others fur which is what most people do.

Fi PoLRs can be quite huge cry babies when something dies but for me it is because it represents that person's/animal's lost irreversible potential state + possible connections and not because of my own relations. Yeah, my dead mother mainly reminds me of her lost life which makes me very sad and in there lies some personal caveats regarding relating to others and being scared of disturbing potentialities by taking part in it.

[sbbds]

“I know how the person is functioning logically but I just don't have lot of interests in winning or loosing in personal game. I care more about the person than I care how he/she relates to me.” I’m like this too @Heretic 007 . I forgot it was even a thing people cared about, and even when reminded it’s still hard for me to wrap my head around it.

It’s relatively recent for me that I care about how people interact with me now based on how close I perceive them to be to me and levels of appropriate interaction for that. I’m really 100% maxing out my Fe for doing that lol. I’m trying to create stronger, more appropriate boundaries for people. I find people can’t just follow those by themselves a lot of the time. You have to go out of their way to make them do it (idk, maybe psychological boundaries enforcing is easier for intuitive types though).

[sbbds]

I can give a clear example of low Fi and Si in ILE by an interaction I witnessed between a Korean ILE girl and Japanese ESI guy. There was conversation about a park filled with deer in Japan amongst a group of people. The Korean ILE girl naively, innocently asked if people eat deer in Japan. Immediately the ESI guy gave the nastiest, most disgusted and Fi butthurt offended/appalled facial expression towards that comment possible lol. An EIE girl who presumably saw the guy’s face then hesitantly explained to the ILE girl that no, they weren’t being eaten lol.

[thegreenfaerie]

That's a cute story @sbbds Kind of also reminds me of my nephew who I think is ILE, he will say the damnedest things with no hesitation lol.

[mu4]

I think that’s very close. It’s probably more like what’s said/done before it is executed (due to lower Ni or Si—less experience there as well).

I think not knowing how one’s internal state *relates* to what is said would be more like Fe polr (although, Fi polr and other logical types more likely wouldn’t be that great at it either). Ep types who are good at seeing external static relationships should be able to see how those things relate more easily if they are made conscious of them.

I think it has to do with lowered consciousness about one’s own, and others’ internal states (lower Ni, Si, Fi) in a more general sense. Not knowing how things relate is definitely one part of it, but a minor one IMO in the grand scheme of things. Basically we are more likely to be callous or unaware towards our own and others’ internal states, and if they are being manipulated or altered subconsciously by our environment we can’t control it as much, so we are more likely to just regurgitate bullshit without even thinking about it. I do think that Fi polr represents a person who has learned or decided, and/or was made to become callous towards themselves and by extension others, for various possible reasons. It doesn’t mean that we can’t, but we are extremely adverse to accessing that deeper part of ourselves for whatever reason, because it’s like a minefield at times full of AIDS-soaked shards of glass. Maybe I’ll post more later if I have more thoughts.

@Heretic 007 @mu4 Please inform if you have any feedback.

I think I'm more on the emotional monitoring spectrum, but I never really know what to do about it nor my own internal state. What I do is I test people by pushing their buttons and ignoring their boundaries, usually it's playful but if it's someone I see as untrustworthy or dangerous, it's more as a way to ramp up pressure and make them show their true colors and emotions. I'm pretty disconnected from my own feelings when I do this and it often leads me into relationship troubles. I do this a lot more at a close psychological distance than at a far one, I think the stakes are higher and I get triggered.

[Lord Pixel]

What other reasons can you think of for Fi polrs leading to being seen as rude assholes? Is it mostly that, or something else? Because I do think @Lord Pixel is right in that there’s a real correlation, at least with how we’re being perceived by others, that can’t just be ignored.

I agree I think there is a difference between someone being an asshole and someone just being perceived as an asshole. A good example of someone being perceived as an insensitive asshole - an older co-worker recently died at my job , in a work meeting we talked about it for a bit and an ISTj just said " Everybody dies, it happens." and the room just got really awkwardly silent because this guy was so cold hearted to such a recent death. He wasn't trying to be an asshole, or actually being one but ppl wud just label him one because of how insensitive his statement was and he didn't seem to care about it, I guess to strong lack of F is what would make ppl call him an asshole, feeling alienated from him because how could he say that without feeling bad, it's the cognitive dissonance people are trying to make sense of when they call him an asshole, "Why are you not affected by this the way the rest of us are, or are at least faking to be affected by it".

And then you have actual assholes. I want to entertain myself even if it means fucking with you, and I don't really care if it bother's you or not it's all for my pleasure and enjoyment, actually I probably can't even see if it bother's you or not until you say something. I keep expecting Fi PoLR to think "if I don't want this done to me then I shouldn't do that to other people." and I feel like that's the big disconnect for me. Alot of the times the actions that have bugged me the most were one's that someone would do to someone else but not tolerate being done to them.

If you need examples of that just pick one from the list.

SLE cousin in HS asked me if he could wear some of my clothes, FULLY knowing he would NEVER let me wear any of his clothes.

ILE roommate makes fun of how long it took me to find a job after college, then gets butt hurt when I make fun of the only job he could find after college.

SLE friend in highschool slaps me in the face, to DEMONSTRATE something that happened to his friends, FULLY knowing it would be a fight if I did that to him.

ILE friend in college, frequently hits me, throws shit off the dirty floor from outdoors at my face after many times of me telling and yelling at him to stop, gets mad when I finally hit him back .

ILE roommate jump scares me while I'm driving, think it's not fair when I jump scare him back "because it's dark".

ILE roommate pulls chair from underneath me while I'm holding a bowl of food, thinks it's funny( the chair part actually was), and then thinks it would have been so much more funny if I spilled all my food and ruined my carpet, as well as wasting food and spending hours to clean up the mess. Thought it would have been soooo funny.

ILE roommate slaps me in my face for shit and giggles from time to time, when I slap him back he slaps me back for slapping him, wtf.


ILE friend in college, sees on the news my home country got hit with an earthquake and people died, first thing he does is make some dumb joke about a pokemon hitting the country with earthquake. Clever joke, horrible timing, and he doesn't give shit when I tell him that's fked up and alot of peopled died, laughs anyway.

SLE cousin borrows my jacket, loses it, when I tell him I'm gonna use his jacket until he brings mine back because that's fair, he won't have it, uses his jacket anyway.

SLE cousin tried to break my wrist when we were kids, just to see how strong he was, and when I forced him to stop, he gets mad, we fight and he tries to punch me in the face.

I introduce ILE roommate to MBTI and he asks me if I am T or F and before I told him he says " you must be f cuz ur a bitch." Same guy who asks if he's my best friend. Same guy who has said to me " If I'm not best man at you're wedding I'm gonna kinda be offended." What?!

In those moments my Se PoLR likes to fantasize all the ways I could scare someone if I owned a gun.


and of course I know a number of ILEs who are not like this, they are all 40 and up.
I know one SLE who I get along with smoothly, probably 6w7 or something idk, no issues except when working together and it's just a matter of us doing things very differently. I've also had SLE co workers where one was 8w7 and definetely did not like me, and one was 7w8 and just liked to tell you a good story of his wild adventures. It's a mixed bag but there are threads of similarities I just can't ignore at this point.

[The Reality Denialist]

People seem to think that internally I tend to experience intensely stuff (let it even be nihilistic thoughts) but I get into deep states apathy as well when no one sees me. Probably being in all sorts of depths all the time compared to many but this is largely NTR (I have pretty good grasp of consequences so my impulsiveness even if it can be low is quite non disastrous). I have no poker face. I can not easily control myself in extreme states. My personal relations are just big and I can say weird stuff but debugging it seems much less challenging.