Introverted intuition Ni PoLR in ESEs-ESFjs

[matilda]

SLE recognizes that people cannot be forced to do things; they have to want to do it. they will also watch people, notice what motivates people, and put them in positions they want to be in so they do work.

like my SLE ex, says to my daughter, "hey i'll give you a quarter for every worm you find" while they get ready to go fishing. daughter dances off happily trying to find worms.

awesome! thanks

[Aiss]

yes! and further still...you can make a case in any direction with this stupid theory. you can say oh this person is that way because of Ni polr...or Ni dual seeking...or Ni hidden agenda. no wait that's not it, you have their type wrong, they must be this type or that type, that explains everything.

anybody we don't like...we just make them our conflict and note that their behaviors must be their polr. and anybody that makes a different suggestion is publically ridiculed. if we are not successful with a public ridicule, then we can always get our butt buddies to help us de-fame somebody. that's the kind of forum we live in today Aiss. no offense against you here...just pointing out what i see clearly.

Yeah, and most people here can't take anything said against their quadra, or heaven forbid, their type. No offense against you... just pointing out what I see clearly. Or clearly delude myself with. That's another possibility. So let's just say socionics is stupid and focus on something else.

On a more serious note, the person in question is my mother and she's an obvious (to me) ESE. What other people say about ESEs fits her perfectly - including astounding similarity between her behaviour and what crazedrat wrote. It also reflects wikisocion descriptions - which are independent from my observations - to the iota. I could have sugarcoated it and omitted any negatives there are, even though they're what's most visible to me - that's part of how conflict works, too. But I don't believe in this forced positive approach to everything and therefore have no intention of backing out on what's obviously more than my own impression.

Another thing is that from what people on this forum write, it seems no one really realizes in what way their PoLR shows. People make some more or less reasonable claims, but they fail to notice the malfunctioning involved. This makes some of them think others are all biased and they're the only ones to see things clearly, but it's far more likely that they're as blind as they perceive others to be, in their own way. So I don't know how bad it is in my case, and how insensitive do I come off as (do I?), or whatever else it does, but I know my Ni and Te, both being fairly obvious as weaknesses, including in ESEs. I imagine it may appear unfair and even untrue if the person doesn't realize what they're doing.

The main issue with these conflicts ("quadra X is [insert whatever pejoratives you want]", "no, quadra X isn't that, it's [insert whatever explanation]!") is misunderstanding, not malice. It's far more likely that a person of the opposite quadra will misinterpret the behaviours, words, intentions of the other. Just as you've been massively criticized for saying decisive quadras are more into group conformity. Yes, it looked bad, but not nearly so bad as some personal attacks here. It's just that some people got emotional about it. You misinterpreted the behaviour (people who pointed out that it's just how other quadras are perceived win this round, I think), they misinterpreted your intentions. And before someone comes and turns it into "serious types look at intentions which they only think they know and therefore are unfair" or whatever, I'd like to point out this happens both ways (and Fi-PoLR are far from innocent).

[Beautiful sky]

yes i will try. SLE will get people to work by working really hard themselves and setting the example. they will also negotiate, they will find something that the person wants and make a trade off: i'll give you this is you do this work. the goal is important....along the way, SLE recognizes that people cannot be forced to do things; they have to want to do it. they will also watch people, notice what motivates people, and put them in positions they want to be in so they do work.

like my SLE ex, says to my daughter, "hey i'll give you a quarter for every worm you find" while they get ready to go fishing. daughter dances off happily trying to find worms.

LSE wants people to be hard working and efficient like they are. they will directly pressure you to work without an immediate reward. they will use guilt, nag, cajole. they are very hard working and efficient themselves and they think everyone should be that way. they have a huge surplus of energy to expend, while SLE being EP has energy but not so so much of it. i guess i wanna say that LSE will use the stick and the carrot, while SLE uses the carrot only and sets the example.

it's almost like SLE recognizes and accepts the IP way of life....whereas LSE is against it.

when i think about it though LSE prolly can get IJ types to move better than SLE can.

to be honest i can work with either type, but it's a little more fun to work with an SLE. prolly due to temperament.

No they won't they will directly demand and will be very emotional about it when people don't head their fruitions, but they are not very good at guilt tripping people into doing things for them. They will withdraw their contact if they see that their fruitions are not taken into account.

Your speculation here is meaningless.

I second that

[Blaze]

Yeah, and most people here can't take anything said against their quadra, or heaven forbid, their type. No offense against you... just pointing out what I see clearly. Or clearly delude myself with. That's another possibility. So let's just say socionics is stupid and focus on something else.

On a more serious note, the person in question is my mother and she's an obvious (to me) ESE. What other people say about ESEs fits her perfectly - including astounding similarity between her behaviour and what crazedrat wrote. It also reflects wikisocion descriptions - which are independent from my observations - to the iota. I could have sugarcoated it and omitted any negatives there are, even though they're what's most visible to me - that's part of how conflict works, too. But I don't believe in this forced positive approach to everything and therefore have no intention of backing out on what's obviously more than my own impression.

Another thing is that from what people on this forum write, it seems no one really realizes in what way their PoLR shows. People make some more or less reasonable claims, but they fail to notice the malfunctioning involved. This makes some of them think others are all biased and they're the only ones to see things clearly, but it's far more likely that they're as blind as they perceive others to be, in their own way. So I don't know how bad it is in my case, and how insensitive do I come off as (do I?), or whatever else it does, but I know my Ni and Te, both being fairly obvious as weaknesses, including in ESEs. I imagine it may appear unfair and even untrue if the person doesn't realize what they're doing.

The main issue with these conflicts ("quadra X is [insert whatever pejoratives you want]", "no, quadra X isn't that, it's [insert whatever explanation]!") is misunderstanding, not malice. It's far more likely that a person of the opposite quadra will misinterpret the behaviours, words, intentions of the other. Just as you've been massively criticized for saying decisive quadras are more into group conformity. Yes, it looked bad, but not nearly so bad as some personal attacks here. It's just that some people got emotional about it. You misinterpreted the behaviour (people who pointed out that it's just how other quadras are perceived win this round, I think), they misinterpreted your intentions. And before someone comes and turns it into "serious types look at intentions which they only think they know and therefore are unfair" or whatever, I'd like to point out this happens both ways (and Fi-PoLR are far from innocent).

the bold seems to be some kind of indirect, sarcastic message to me particularly Aiss...was this your intention?

and i was not criticizing a quadra, just pointing out a conformity issue as i see it. not sure why people see conformity as a bad thing, esp since conformity drives groups to cohesion and allows groups to get massive tasks done. i don't think i misinterpreted those personal, disrespectful and totally inappropriate comments. i think i understood their meaning perfectly.

[Aiss]

the bold seems to be some kind of indirect, sarcastic message to me particularly Aiss...was this your intention?

I was repeating your exact turn of phrase. Was this your intention when you used it?

and i was not criticizing a quadra, just pointing out a conformity issue as i see it. not sure why people see conformity as a bad thing, esp since conformity drives groups to cohesion and allows groups to get massive tasks done. i don't think i misinterpreted those personal, disrespectful and totally inappropriate comments. i think i understood their meaning perfectly.

I meant misinterpreting the behavior as drawing the "conformity" conclusion based on how you see different quadras act. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing; my opinion of conformity is that there are all sorts of social standards - that is, relating to all information aspects, although some, such as Fe, are far more obvious than others - and everyone sees themselves as refusing to conform to some of them that they think to be ridiculous, or useless, or silly, or whatever else the excuse, and dislike.

[FDG]

yes i will try. SLE will get people to work by working really hard themselves and setting the example. they will also negotiate, they will find something that the person wants and make a trade off: i'll give you this is you do this work. the goal is important....along the way, SLE recognizes that people cannot be forced to do things; they have to want to do it. they will also watch people, notice what motivates people, and put them in positions they want to be in so they do work.

like my SLE ex, says to my daughter, "hey i'll give you a quarter for every worm you find" while they get ready to go fishing. daughter dances off happily trying to find worms.

LSE wants people to be hard working and efficient like they are. they will directly pressure you to work without an immediate reward. they will use guilt, nag, cajole. they are very hard working and efficient themselves and they think everyone should be that way. they have a huge surplus of energy to expend, while SLE being EP has energy but not so so much of it. i guess i wanna say that LSE will use the stick and the carrot, while SLE uses the carrot only and sets the example.

it's almost like SLE recognizes and accepts the IP way of life....whereas LSE is against it.

when i think about it though LSE prolly can get IJ types to move better than SLE can.

to be honest i can work with either type, but it's a little more fun to work with an SLE. prolly due to temperament.

Yeah...that's my experience, too. Although, I personally cannot work with LSEs at all.

[Blaze]

I was repeating your exact turn of phrase. Was this your intention when you used it?

obviously you were. but, you haven't answered the question. and i think you know i was not being sarcastic towards you.



I meant misinterpreting the behavior as drawing the "conformity" conclusion based on how you see different quadras act. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing; my opinion of conformity is that there are all sorts of social standards - that is, relating to all information aspects, although some, such as Fe, are far more obvious than others - and everyone sees themselves as refusing to conform to some of them that they think to be ridiculous, or useless, or silly, or whatever else the excuse, and dislike.

agree with the bold. however, i stand by my conclusions and offer back to you that a spade is a spade and i'm not soft shoe anybody's sensibilities. the truth is a dangerous thing.

as to whether i am playing games with crazedrat about ESE's Ni polr, i will cop to this. but, if you look at the orginal post, he failed to answer the question that i asked. it was a fairly simple question that was side stepped.

[Blaze]

Yeah...that's my experience, too. Although, I personally cannot work with LSEs at all.

thanks...really? why can't you work with them?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

He always gives straight orders "Pick it up", "Bring it here", "No, not here, here!". His orders can be about unimportant things and too detailed. He does this instead of waiting the few seconds that people need to figure out for themselves what to do. When he gives an order, you have to react immediately. If you wait 2 seconds he assumes that you don't get it, he then repeats the order. His orders sometimes comes very suddenly without the background information that you need. Then when you don't understand he gets frustrated, and probably thinks that he needs to give even more orders.

OH GOD OH GOD my ESFj mom does this EXACT same thing dude. It's so annoying and draining. Ugh. Of course when I correct her she'll get all hypersensitive and be on the verge of exploding. I gotta remind her in a very Ti-ego way, but that's hard for me to do cause my ego is Ni, not Ti- so I have to force and think about it.

[FDG]

thanks...really? why can't you work with them?

I suppose it's "clash of Te" - when they tell me to do something in a different way, I can never agree with them, so we start arguing and it never ends well...

[Ningyo]

In my experience working with ESEs it seems more like they think other people are somewhat helpless. The one I work with now would basically do my job for me, but often interrupts the important thing I might be doing at the moment with some other bullshit. Definitely a control freak. If she realizes I'm doing something useful, she acts shocked that I even knew to get it done. Granted, I can be lazy, but meh. On the other hand, the LSE bosses I've had won't even check on me, just bark orders and argh, work progresses so much more smoothly when they're not around. The ESE also uses manipulation to get me to do things, which I hate. My SEI mother uses similar tactics at home, but due to Te-PoLR has a horrible time making sure anything actually GETS DONE here.

The other ESE I work conventions with has a hard time telling when something is actually unnecessary. From what I've noticed, ESEs NEED to be busy with things that can be justified as practical somehow, even when they're at home (none would understand my fascination with sites like Poupee Girl). An IEE we were working with gave us some BS task which didn't really need to be accomplished so she could hang with the ILE head of our department, and once she was out of earshot I sort of pointed out the uselessness of the task, did the bare minimum and got up to let her know we were finished. The ESE gave me the death glare that time, like, HOW COULD WE POSSIBLY NOT FINISH? HOW ARE WE TO KNOW WHEN WE'RE 'DONE' UNLESS SOMEONE ACTUALLY TELLS US? Lmao.

[Ningyo]

Man, these people are my dual? They sound like such frikkin wastes of time. Just like this LSE I know.....

They're good with other things. Supremely responsible IME. When I got news I might be getting kicked out of my apartment and couldn't stop panicking and crying hysterically, who did I call? An ESE. Even the one who bosses me around at work always has great advice when all the SLIs, LSIs and SEEs are all "I dunnoooooooo~"

[mightylizard]

I have a lot of ESEs in my life, including my mother, my sister, and my best friend. This is how I perceive it.

When I was younger I would come home from school and casually mention "I got assigned a project today." My mother would respond "when is it due" and I would say "two weeks from now" and she would respond "you better get started then!" to which I would explain "two weeks is quite a long time and I just got home from school. I want to get something to eat. Then I have activities all afternoon, so I would like to relax now while I have the chance. Plus, we barely have any information about the project it was just briefly assigned and so it could change over the course of the next two weeks."

TL;DR: Not understanding what "two weeks" means in an "intuitive" sense. They can look at a calendar and realize it's fourteen days, but they don't have an "internal" sense of how long that actually is.

My best friend who I lived with for a year ALWAYS had time management issues with his papers for school. It was terrible. The worst I've ever seen, actually. He completely mismanaged his time. Once he had a paper due in four days and read and entire book in which only one chapter had to do with the actual subject he was going to be discussing. He didn't feel the need to do any other work because he "had to read the book" for the paper. When I explained to him that he just needed the one chapter he said he may find more information in the other chapters. I said that may well be true but you don't have enough time to do that. Just read the necessary chapter and then search papers that refer to specifically what you're talking about you so can have all the research done in a timely manner. Naturally he didn't take my advice. He ended up having to get an extension. The day before the paper was due he had one paragraph written and decided at eight in the evening that he HAD to go grocery shopping because he didn't have enough food to last the week. I explained to him that he has enough food to last him a couple days he should focus on the paper because THAT has the greater time limitation on it. He didn't take my advice and spent two hours to grocery shop (Alpha SFs waste a lot of time shopping as a general rule IME).

I have an LSE uncle who makes, and I am not joking, "rough rough rough timetables" for vacations. LITERALLY. Like at the top they say "rough draft no. 1 or rough draft no.4" I never mention it but I feel tempted to point out that in an attempt to make everything go timely on the trip (he needs to see EVERYTHING) he is wasting a lot of time. Everything was scheduled out down to 10 minutes for two week trips - it was ridiculous. And it NEVER worked out. They would end up missing really key or big attractions they really wanted to see for ones none of them really cared about but were shoved in the schedule. My INTp aunt would always tell him "just make a decision on the things you really want to see and put preference on them. You don't have enough time to see everything so you need to be smart about it." My ESTj uncle hated that. He would say "I'm a connoisseur of culture, I want to see it all" and shit like that. My INTp would roll her eyes and point out "everyone wants to see everything, but they can't."

To expand on that last example in a way that I think particularly displays Ni POLR (maybe moreso in LSE). Once they went to Disney World and they had magic kingdom planned out (i.e., the order they were going to do rides in). What ended up happening is that they would wait in line for an hour for something like Dumbo, which none of them actually wanted to go on but it was the next thing in the schedule so they HAD to do it (if we don't do it now and decide to do it later we have to walk all the way back here from the other side of the park!!). Instead of taking the time consideration (e.g., "it is busy today, what do we want to get done, what is important. We can come back to what we don't care about as much if we have time) the schedule HAD to be followed and they came back complaining (the family is 3 SEIs and the LSE father so they are kinda at his mercy in a lot of ways) that they missed out on a lot of the rides they wanted to go on. Instead of blaming the fact that they mismanaged their time they blamed it on the fact that "the park was too busy that day"

Few examples from my IRL. Probably TL;DR, but I have a lot of experience of Ni POLR in my every day life. It doesn't bother me that much (being ILE) but it is noticeable and can get annoying.

ANother one because it's good. My LSI father (not Ni POLR but weak Ni regardless) once was suppose to drive me to soccer when I was younger. It was 15 minutes to drive out there but twenty minutes before my practice began my father decided to take a shower. He wasn't going anywhere after dropping me off, he was coming right back home. Instead of just taking the shower when he got back he decided to take it then and I ended up being 15 minutes late and got in shit.

I think how Ni POLR/weak Ni really manifests is not being able to allocate time based on importance and going with what "feels" (in an Si way) right at the moment. As referenced above, Alpha SFs waste a lot of time shopping in my experience (almost my entire family is ESEs and SEIs. I can think of seven right off the top of my head. Most of my close friends are Alpha SFs too). They will just sort of meander about the store looking at things and talking about whether they should get this shampoo or that shampoo for ten minutes not realizing this decision will have a minimal impact on them if you look at the impact of the decision over a month long period. I use to work in a grocery store as a teenage and it would kill me when I would see people assess every single box of strawberries. I understand looking through quickly to check for damage, but just pick a box and move on with your life. That is five minutes of your life you are wasting. It's worse when they would discuss it with their Significant other. "This box or this box?" This is sort of how Si Ego appears to me, an Ne ego. Of course it doesn't bother me. I find it sort of "cute"

ALso, (I need adding to this because Ne obviously) the difference between Ni POLR and Ni ignorning is that for ENTPs the exploration process of Ne is an end to itself. I don't handle time that well. I'll randomly just drive twenty minutes to the grocery store to pick up a package of pre-cut fruit for no other reason than I had the impulse to do it. The difference is I am always conscious of what is important over long periods of time and what is not. Think of the ENTP student who parties Thrusday through Saturday, is always hanging out with friends, yet still seems to ace all of their classes. The ENTP knows exactly what is necessary to know for tests and what is required in papers and does the bare minimum a lot of time (an ENTP staple). Actually, ESTJ-ENTP clashes (which seem fairly common) typically arise because of some judgment the ESTJ makes on the ENTP as a person (Lower Fi) as being lazy despite the fact that the ENTPs method is just as successful if not more successful than the ESTJ for the same reason a lot of INFps end up more successful than a lot of ESTjs despite the fact that a lot of INFps are lazy AF. I know a fair few ESTJs and am good friends with them and they are much more hard working than them but in school I almost always ended up with equal or better grades with a quarter (probably less lol) of the effort. It's because they would spend so much of their "working" time being practical, yes, but towards things that didn't REALLY matter in the long term. (e.g. I knew an ESTJ who memorized the table of elements when it wasn't required and for an intro chem class. Neither of us planned to take another chem class. She would always tout about how she knew all the elements, but I ended up doing better on tests because I perceived what was necessary/most important/most likely to be asked, learned that, and then moved on. I had/have no interest in chemistry - just needed it for my degree/to get in to upper level bio courses. To me there was no long term benefit of learning the table, so I didn't. TO ESTJs this sometimes comes across as lazy IME, to me it's common sense). Actually "learning a whole bunch of useless information then showing it off as if it's relevant in an attempt to display your intellect when really people think you just wasted a bunch of time memorizing shit no one cares about" seems a delta quadra staple in general.

[mightylizard]

now that i wrote all that down i realize the best example of weak Ni is that show where people dig through garbage cans for coupons and then spend two hours organizing them so that they can save seventy cents

[niffer]

I think some ESEs can sometimes have a bit of an "ADHD" vibe because of their Ni PoLR. They will sometimes seemingly talk about and want to do lots of stuff really quickly.

Also, whenever, the subject of time constraints is brought up, they will freak out a bit. "Will we have enough time?" is a key buzz phrase you will hear a lot with them, even for really simple daily tasks, much more so than with Ni DS types.

There are ESEs who can seem calm most of the time and repress this, but really it's to do with their individual abilities to adapt well to social norms for some reason.

You will also notice that it can be challenging for them to present information in a focused manner. Communication seems more like it effectively just stirs up a whirlwind of cotton candy emotions than anything else. There are always bits of useful Te thrown in, but with Ti DS it's sometimes like they've spewed out and left a bunch of puzzle pieces everywhere for the listener to piece together themselves. Of course, this is all to varying degrees depending on the individual ESE.

[The Reality Denialist]

1D (Ni +Ti)= ADHD?
Sounds like a good recipe.

I think it is more obvious when you observe Ni PoLR thinking. I think it is hard to notice time flow outside of their own experiences.

In a way I have something similar to Ni aversion. I don't value time management that much. I tend have some sort of timing process running in the background. Can not really explain it. It just works most of the time. I mean I don't care about wasting time therefore I can arrive early (for some weird reason) or bit later / forget something (for reasons like marking wrong numbers in calendar or something like that).

On the other hand I have experienced very low Ni environment. I did the compulsory military service (I was complete slacker but since it is compulsory there were lots of people like me and definitely not soldier material . Don't count me in if someday comes a real need to go to shoot others... for several reasons.). I would say that there was lots of hurry to go to wait for something. Didn't really care that much about that waiting part but the hurrying part was bit painful.

[Exodus]

I have a lot of ESEs in my life, including my mother, my sister, and my best friend. This is how I perceive it.

When I was younger I would come home from school and casually mention "I got assigned a project today." My mother would respond "when is it due" and I would say "two weeks from now" and she would respond "you better get started then!" to which I would explain "two weeks is quite a long time and I just got home from school. I want to get something to eat. Then I have activities all afternoon, so I would like to relax now while I have the chance. Plus, we barely have any information about the project it was just briefly assigned and so it could change over the course of the next two weeks."

TL;DR: Not understanding what "two weeks" means in an "intuitive" sense. They can look at a calendar and realize it's fourteen days, but they don't have an "internal" sense of how long that actually is.

My best friend who I lived with for a year ALWAYS had time management issues with his papers for school. It was terrible. The worst I've ever seen, actually. He completely mismanaged his time. Once he had a paper due in four days and read and entire book in which only one chapter had to do with the actual subject he was going to be discussing. He didn't feel the need to do any other work because he "had to read the book" for the paper. When I explained to him that he just needed the one chapter he said he may find more information in the other chapters. I said that may well be true but you don't have enough time to do that. Just read the necessary chapter and then search papers that refer to specifically what you're talking about you so can have all the research done in a timely manner. Naturally he didn't take my advice. He ended up having to get an extension. The day before the paper was due he had one paragraph written and decided at eight in the evening that he HAD to go grocery shopping because he didn't have enough food to last the week. I explained to him that he has enough food to last him a couple days he should focus on the paper because THAT has the greater time limitation on it. He didn't take my advice and spent two hours to grocery shop (Alpha SFs waste a lot of time shopping as a general rule IME).

I have an LSE uncle who makes, and I am not joking, "rough rough rough timetables" for vacations. LITERALLY. Like at the top they say "rough draft no. 1 or rough draft no.4" I never mention it but I feel tempted to point out that in an attempt to make everything go timely on the trip (he needs to see EVERYTHING) he is wasting a lot of time. Everything was scheduled out down to 10 minutes for two week trips - it was ridiculous. And it NEVER worked out. They would end up missing really key or big attractions they really wanted to see for ones none of them really cared about but were shoved in the schedule. My INTp aunt would always tell him "just make a decision on the things you really want to see and put preference on them. You don't have enough time to see everything so you need to be smart about it." My ESTj uncle hated that. He would say "I'm a connoisseur of culture, I want to see it all" and shit like that. My INTp would roll her eyes and point out "everyone wants to see everything, but they can't."

To expand on that last example in a way that I think particularly displays Ni POLR (maybe moreso in LSE). Once they went to Disney World and they had magic kingdom planned out (i.e., the order they were going to do rides in). What ended up happening is that they would wait in line for an hour for something like Dumbo, which none of them actually wanted to go on but it was the next thing in the schedule so they HAD to do it (if we don't do it now and decide to do it later we have to walk all the way back here from the other side of the park!!). Instead of taking the time consideration (e.g., "it is busy today, what do we want to get done, what is important. We can come back to what we don't care about as much if we have time) the schedule HAD to be followed and they came back complaining (the family is 3 SEIs and the LSE father so they are kinda at his mercy in a lot of ways) that they missed out on a lot of the rides they wanted to go on. Instead of blaming the fact that they mismanaged their time they blamed it on the fact that "the park was too busy that day"

Few examples from my IRL. Probably TL;DR, but I have a lot of experience of Ni POLR in my every day life. It doesn't bother me that much (being ILE) but it is noticeable and can get annoying.

ANother one because it's good. My LSI father (not Ni POLR but weak Ni regardless) once was suppose to drive me to soccer when I was younger. It was 15 minutes to drive out there but twenty minutes before my practice began my father decided to take a shower. He wasn't going anywhere after dropping me off, he was coming right back home. Instead of just taking the shower when he got back he decided to take it then and I ended up being 15 minutes late and got in shit.

I think how Ni POLR/weak Ni really manifests is not being able to allocate time based on importance and going with what "feels" (in an Si way) right at the moment. As referenced above, Alpha SFs waste a lot of time shopping in my experience (almost my entire family is ESEs and SEIs. I can think of seven right off the top of my head. Most of my close friends are Alpha SFs too). They will just sort of meander about the store looking at things and talking about whether they should get this shampoo or that shampoo for ten minutes not realizing this decision will have a minimal impact on them if you look at the impact of the decision over a month long period. I use to work in a grocery store as a teenage and it would kill me when I would see people assess every single box of strawberries. I understand looking through quickly to check for damage, but just pick a box and move on with your life. That is five minutes of your life you are wasting. It's worse when they would discuss it with their Significant other. "This box or this box?" This is sort of how Si Ego appears to me, an Ne ego. Of course it doesn't bother me. I find it sort of "cute"

ALso, (I need adding to this because Ne obviously) the difference between Ni POLR and Ni ignorning is that for ENTPs the exploration process of Ne is an end to itself. I don't handle time that well. I'll randomly just drive twenty minutes to the grocery store to pick up a package of pre-cut fruit for no other reason than I had the impulse to do it. The difference is I am always conscious of what is important over long periods of time and what is not. Think of the ENTP student who parties Thrusday through Saturday, is always hanging out with friends, yet still seems to ace all of their classes. The ENTP knows exactly what is necessary to know for tests and what is required in papers and does the bare minimum a lot of time (an ENTP staple). Actually, ESTJ-ENTP clashes (which seem fairly common) typically arise because of some judgment the ESTJ makes on the ENTP as a person (Lower Fi) as being lazy despite the fact that the ENTPs method is just as successful if not more successful than the ESTJ for the same reason a lot of INFps end up more successful than a lot of ESTjs despite the fact that a lot of INFps are lazy AF. I know a fair few ESTJs and am good friends with them and they are much more hard working than them but in school I almost always ended up with equal or better grades with a quarter (probably less lol) of the effort. It's because they would spend so much of their "working" time being practical, yes, but towards things that didn't REALLY matter in the long term. (e.g. I knew an ESTJ who memorized the table of elements when it wasn't required and for an intro chem class. Neither of us planned to take another chem class. She would always tout about how she knew all the elements, but I ended up doing better on tests because I perceived what was necessary/most important/most likely to be asked, learned that, and then moved on. I had/have no interest in chemistry - just needed it for my degree/to get in to upper level bio courses. To me there was no long term benefit of learning the table, so I didn't. TO ESTJs this sometimes comes across as lazy IME, to me it's common sense). Actually "learning a whole bunch of useless information then showing it off as if it's relevant in an attempt to display your intellect when really people think you just wasted a bunch of time memorizing shit no one cares about" seems a delta quadra staple in general.

The way you've described Vulnerable vs. Mobilizing is basically the exact opposite of how I see it. Not surprising, since this idea seems to be widespread.

It is the Mobilizing type (especially LSI but sometimes also ESI) that wants to plan everything out, in detail, long in advance. This shows an extreme focus on and value of . They dislike having uncertainty about the future in general. By contrast, it is the Vulnerable type that is prone to doing things spontaneously, whenever the thought arises to do it (yet, without a sense of urgency), and also conversely neglecting things that have some urgency to them. This gets into somewhat too, in the guise of situational demands - it's the valuing type (other than Suggestive) that often puts pressure on themselves and others to "get things done" (meaning, get them done right now), even if those things don't necessarily need to get done right now (or ever). valuers take a more leisurely approach, because they tend to believe that there are multiple possible ways of doing things that could work out fine (say, doing it tomorrow, or the day after, or the day after that...). This removes the sense of urgency. The valuing approach is also incompatible with , because tightly narrowing one's plans is an inherently uncomfortable and non-relaxed way to live one's life - as your first example demonstrates very clearly.

[wacey]

My finger slipt on phone I dont like your post for the record. I also dont agree with it.

If an idea is wide spread and spoken of by multiple people then in this instance perhaps it is true.

[End]

Having as the PoLR is, well, not a very good thing but hey, I bet everyone who has a given function as the program thinks the same of everyone who is in that spot as either A) the supervisee or B) the conflictor. The first just bows down and just admits to it on the subconscious level. Yes, you are clearly superior in this field. I don't like this but you can't argue with results.

The second digs in their heels and vociferously decries the other is insane and has no idea how reality works. This is why we say certain quadras "conflict" as it were. End of the day, they wanna get along, but the overall worldview just ensures that it ain't gonna happen without a LOT of work and, sadly, most people aren't up to the task. I wish more of us were, but that tribal mindset forged through millennia of evolution ain't going away anytime soon. As an type myself, it's frustration. Dear god, everyone is so fucking blind. The end result of their rhetoric is blood in the streets. Blood they say they don't want to shed. Yet, they push for it anyway. And they wonder why I keep telling them that they'll never see a "brotherhood of man" or some other utopian flight until they stop the killing for a generation or two.

This is the curse of having a high I.Q. people. You see how we can all get along, but the fucking psychopaths and their low I.Q. sycophants ruin it all for bullshit reasons. GAH!

[Beautiful sky]

"I don't know where this relationship is going"

[bolong]

yeah a very common misconception I guess, about Ni and time.

I really really have a hard time believing that Ni is about time management. Ni egos are the biggest procrastinators. On the other hand I think ESEs and LSEs are great at managing their time, at organizing in general.

I did grow up with a Ni-polr mother, and we always clashed over basically the same thing that mightylizard describes, but I don't think it's bc Ni-polrs don't know how to manage time. I think that's more of a EJ vs IP clash. IP wants to be left alone, EJ wants to meddle and organize.