The moment of truth

[Joy]

not unlikely

[Gilly]

your mom is unlikely.

[Joy]

[Creepy-]

You're an INTj. Let it go.

What makes you think that???

You're OBVIOUSLY not a feeling type. It's clear to anyone with a pair of eyes and something behind them that this is the case. You're dry as hell, you just try to spice it up with the before-mentioned faux-emotionalism, because you find that people act more interested when you do. As for you being an ENTj...laughable. Compare yourself to other ENTjs on the board, and you will quickly find that you relate much more to the INTjs. Your communication style, the way you type, your expressions...it all points to INTj.

I really don't think you know what a feeling type is. Or perhaps you are easily mislead, g87.

Unless of course you are joking when you call me an INFp. But still, that sort of takes away from your credibility, especially in situations like this. I can't tell if you are serious.

[Expat]

Well here are my 2 cents.

I think McNew prefers to , and over . I don't think he's a sensor, and the most consistent thing about him, on socionics, is his loathing for ISTjs and ISFjs.

So, I think ENFp intuitive subtype, but so much into intuitive subtype that he is "almost" an ENTp intuitive, but still Delta nevertheless.

That would help to explain why he thought for so long that he was ENTp. It might even explain why some thought he was INFp -- INFps and ENFps are obviously very different but are also often mistaken for each other.

[anndelise]

I think that one thing to keep in mind was that ....way back...when rmcnew was working on creating tests, when contridictions occurred between the tests' answers and those who are sure of their type, his first instinct seemed to be to attempt to force that person to conform to his test's answer, instead of looking to see where the test might be wrong. Even to the point of seeming to selectively choose which feedback to pay attention to. There were numerous times when I would give him feedback, and at least two others, that he ...just...didn't seem to...make the connection...we were giving him. Yes, he did eventually attempt to alter the test or create a new one. What I'm pointing out are those initial reactions of his.

An ENFp's initial reactions would be to go back over the test to see where it might be off. However, I suppose if he's even more uptight and neurotic than I am....*shrugs*.

The initial reaction leads me to think either a J type, or maybe an Ni type.


His current pursuits are showing that either something in his life has become the final straw or that he's ...um...desperate (horrible word)enough to have sought our help with an issue(s) he's been attempting to deal with. Either way, it seems to me that something had broken down inside, and now he is either attempting to pull it all back together into coherency, or he's attempting to build a stronger foundation.

If either of this scenarious is occuring, then attempting to type him is wasted energy, both for him as well as us. We could never know if he was putting on a mask previously, or if the knowledge/understanding breakdown is now structured enough to attend to. Perhaps our energies would be better utilized in discussing which functions he's using during certain actions. This would help in creating consistency in dialogue, as well as showing others how even a "type" can utilize the other functions.

[Gilly]

Expat, you know I think highly of you, but...ENFp? Have you gone off the deep end? Maybe I'm just ignorant, or blind, or...something, but I see absolutely no ENFp in this guy. Not a single bone. What do you think in terms of VI?

[Gilly]

Can we compromise? INFj? I've said before that I can see some Delta in him, and I'm trying to hearken back to those thoughts in an attempt to take this perspective seriously.

[Joy]

Can we compromise? INFj?

what difference does it make? say you and expat agree on a type for him... does that mean he'll agree? does that mean that INFj will become his type, or that it ever truly was his type? and even if he is INFj, he doesn't act like a typical INFj.

[Gilly]

The point is that he doesn't act like a typical ANYTHING. If he DID, we would've typed him by now.

[Expat]

Expat, you know I think highly of you, but...ENFp? Have you gone off the deep end? Maybe I'm just ignorant, or blind, or...something, but I see absolutely no ENFp in this guy. Not a single bone. What do you think in terms of VI?

I mentioned that to you when we discussed about your type in the chat.

I gave my reasons: consistent loathing for ISTjs and ISFjs; he thought for a very long time that he was ENTp, evidence of deep values that comes up to the surface very often. I think INFj, as you just suggested, is possible.

And, again, if he is ENFp, I think extreme intuitive subtype, which could make him different from "standard" ENFps.

As for VI, I wouldn't say he's ENFp with base on VI alone, but I always give more weight to other evidence.

If he's INTj, how do you account for his hatred for ISTjs and ISFjs? Unless he has mistyped them etc. Well, I'm assuming he hasn't.

[Gilly]

Well, that's easy: they both hit his PoLR with their creative functions. But then, this could be true of an INFj as well. I simply see the dryness and communication style as characteristic of Ti. Perhaps it's just introverted judging functions in general. Who knows.

[Megan]

People who prefer to be untypable - is a natural phenomenon. Rmcnew seems wants to find his type. It also looks like we do not know very clear differences between the types and do not know how to interpret the reactions. Otherwise we would not have a range of opinions. Even if we would know there is always possibility that the person will reject it because he has a different vision about himslef.

If we think about what Anndelise said and analyse other clear reactions then we shall be on the right truck. Why did he not attend to the feedback? Is it common to other types? Did you notice before that he hold very strong values and is not quick to change them? Is he "fixed" or is he flexible enough? What quality does it suggest?

INTPs ask many questions and like to stir the debates. I noticed that Rmcnew posts very interesting info from time to time: he actually finds it and post it, and then defends it. What are these posts about? Do they say anything about his main interests? What are his topics about? The first function shows the interest. Does it look like INTJ/s interests?

I am not going to say the type I think about. It is always better to find the evidence otherwise it is an empty sound.

[diamond]

rmc has issues with women, much like a male intj I know. FWIW.

[Mariano Rajoy]

Well, that's easy: they both hit his PoLR with their creative functions. But then, this could be true of an INFj as well. I simply see the dryness and communication style as characteristic of Ti. Perhaps it's just introverted judging functions in general. Who knows.

is it possible to hit Se polr through an online forum?

[Gilly]

Yes, but we're referring to IRL relationships.

[Mariano Rajoy]

and when was the last time an intj posted a thread asking for help in typing themselves? mcnew: hating to be late, being totally rational, and looking sharp because you feel like it does not exclude you from P.

[Mariano Rajoy]

Yes, but we're referring to IRL relationships.

hit my polr

[Gilly]

Shut the fuck up, you know what I mean. I can't just do it deliberately. Besides, I'm not very good at it

[Mariano Rajoy]

Shut the fuck up, you know what I mean. I can't just do it deliberately. Besides, I'm not very good at it

i am going to start a new thread

[Olga]

Issues with women....like not understanding/appreciating or rejecting you after you being very nice to them? What is it women looking in men tthat you have not got?
It is also suggest seeking social approval and may be feeling lonely at times. I do not remember Rmcnew telling us about his favourite colours... this could help, who knows!

If you associate extraversion with confidence and you feel a lack of it from time to time - possibly introvert. Does it happen that you lose the thought as if it goes wondering....and then you are not sure about the answer....like you are looking for the right type for yourslef and then feel lost in all possible answers? If yes, what function does it suggest?

It would be good if INTJs would further clarify the differences between the type in mind and actual behaviour/attitude.

[Joy]

mcnew's issue with women is that he misunderstands what they want out of the relationship and ends up more attached to them than they are to him. he is also possessive.

I am not convinced that these trust issues are type related.

[Expat]

Well, that's easy: they both hit his PoLR with their creative functions. But then, this could be true of an INFj as well. I simply see the dryness and communication style as characteristic of Ti. Perhaps it's just introverted judging functions in general. Who knows.

Of course this could happen. But the point is, it doesn't happen very often in principle. This is the same as saying that comparative and super-ego are the worst relationships to have, but usually they aren't, precisely because although such types could hit your PoLR they don't, at least not so often.

I'm just going "back to basics" here. I think that if McNew correctly types ISTjs and ISFjs, and they are the types he dislikes the most, consistently, this has more weight than VI or how he communicates online. At least it's something not to be brushed aside easily.

[Gilly]

You have a fair point.

However, I don't think that anyone who can't accurately type themselves should be trusted to type others and assume things about their relations with these people. You may say that the same applies to me, which in theory is a good point, but I, however, come back to one type consistently, and type others based on my relations with them while assuming this type. Mcnew has no type to come back to like this, and therefore cannot be trusted to type others on his own. That said, I would say that more objective and reliable factos, such as the resemblance of his communication style to other introverted rational types, should be weighed equally, if not more heavily.

[Olga]

What a shame: Rmcnew does not like ISFJs?! But I do like Rmcnew.

[Expat]

However, I don't think that anyone who can't accurately type themselves should be trusted to type others and assume things about their relations with these people.

*shrugs* that is always the problem with socionics typing, we can never be sure whether the person has typed others correctly. IF McNew has typed those ISTjs and ISFjs correctly, I think there is a good case for ENFp. If he hasn't, obviously the case is weaker.

[Angel von Himmel]

rmc has issues with women, much like a male intj I know. FWIW.

mcnew's issue with women is that he misunderstands what they want out of the relationship and ends up more attached to them than they are to him. he is also possessive. I am not convinced that these trust issues are type related.

Actually, it is totally the opposite. Women tend to like me and they want to get to know me, then they either get agressive because I seem luke-warm about wanting to get to know them and/or eventually give up, and conclude I just do not like them or something, which is not always true. Now, there have been girls I have persued, but I usually end up feeling hurt, miserable, rejected or something so I get depressed and do not try for long periods of time.

I actually like older 25+ women more than the younger ones, because by that age they have atleast learned how not to reject someone if they do reject, so in other words they do not do it in a stupid way that makes me hate women in general, like being indirect and talking about having sex or relationships with other guys until I get the point or complaining about personal problems or something.

So, in other words, my problems with women really stem from past events that have caused current personal problems that make it difficult for me to even risk trying to have a relationship with a woman, let alone actually knowing how to have a relationship.

And I disagree that my personal problems make me seem INTj.

[Angel von Himmel]

What a shame: Rmcnew does not like ISFJs?! But I do like Rmcnew.

It has more to do with the fact that what ISXjs tend to expect and what I expect often leads to conflict, so I avoid them. For example, an ISFj may be a total neat freak and have to have everything bunched into two seperate categories or something, and then I'll go and rearrange them and the ISXj gets mad because it is rearranged, etc.

[Angel von Himmel]

I think that one thing to keep in mind was that ....way back...when rmcnew was working on creating tests, when contridictions occurred between the tests' answers and those who are sure of their type, his first instinct seemed to be to attempt to force that person to conform to his test's answer, instead of looking to see where the test might be wrong. Even to the point of seeming to selectively choose which feedback to pay attention to. There were numerous times when I would give him feedback, and at least two others, that he ...just...didn't seem to...make the connection...we were giving him. Yes, he did eventually attempt to alter the test or create a new one. What I'm pointing out are those initial reactions of his.

The reason why I reacted that way is because I refuse to waste energy attempting to "PLEASE EVERYONE." How the hell is it possible to please people who want two totally diffrent things from me? Some people liked the test, others did not like the test for whatever reason. And as far as selectivity, I responded to people 'WHEN IT WAS REASONABLE TO DO SO.' If you are just going to conclude the tests I created are crap and inaccurate no matter what I do, then there is no reason I should respond. It is not going to be constructive for anyone.

An ENFp's initial reactions would be to go back over the test to see where it might be off. However, I suppose if he's even more uptight and neurotic than I am....*shrugs*.

I did that numerous times, people still complained. I even made it possible for people to submit edited test questions, only one person ever responded.

The initial reaction leads me to think either a J type, or maybe an Ni type.

Could be ...

His current pursuits are showing that either something in his life has become the final straw or that he's ...um...desperate (horrible word)enough to have sought our help with an issue(s) he's been attempting to deal with. Either way, it seems to me that something had broken down inside, and now he is either attempting to pull it all back together into coherency, or he's attempting to build a stronger foundation.

I am always looking for good answers to life problems ... By the way, you were saying?

If either of this scenarious is occuring, then attempting to type him is wasted energy, both for him as well as us. We could never know if he was putting on a mask previously, or if the knowledge/understanding breakdown is now structured enough to attend to. Perhaps our energies would be better utilized in discussing which functions he's using during certain actions. This would help in creating consistency in dialogue, as well as showing others how even a "type" can utilize the other functions.

Possibly ...

[CuriousSoul]

@rmcnew
Dioklecian typed you as an ISTP.
I am not sure if he still thinks so, but do you think it might be possible?
I just see no way how you can "know" that you are an intuitive type if you are otherwise still confused.
And Delta types especially do not seem to be particularly attracted to identical relations.
I just wanted to bring this back to the table.

[Angel von Himmel]

@rmcnew
Dioklecian typed you as an ISTP.
I am not sure if he still thinks so, but do you think it might be possible?
I just see no way how you can "know" that you are an intuitive type if you are otherwise still confused.
And Delta types especially do not seem to be particularly attracted to identical relations.
I just wanted to bring this back to the table.

I suppose it is possible ... I had my own mother do a Kershey type test for me by putting the answers down that she perceives me to behave. To my disgust I got ISTJ [on a kershey test].

[Angel von Himmel]

Guess no one wants to follow what I just wrote, haha ...

[CuriousSoul]

Many ISTPs appear quite judging, so you scoring as an ISTJ according to your mom's typing is not really contradictory at all.
Generally I think the type should fall into its place naturally. Try to think along the lines of what you would ideally want in a relationship and what you can give in return.

[Olga]

I just would like to ask Rmcnew;

1. What type does he like out of all 16 types which could be also his type?
Have you got any preference?

2. What type he does not like at all (not people - type), which he would not like to be?

3. Even if you do not believe in colour theory: what 2 colours you would choose, you feel comfortable with? Dark or light colours?

4. What films do you like to watch?

5. What music do you like?

6. How emotional are you? Do you show your emotions: lots of shouting or laughing? Are you loud or chatty? Do you hold an opinion for everything?

[Angel von Himmel]

I just would like to ask Rmcnew;

1. What type does he like out of all 16 types which could be also his type?
Have you got any preference?

I've gotten along with ENTjs, INTjs, actually most intuitives I get along with.

2. What type he does not like at all (not people - type), which he would not like to be?

XSXjs I avoid all to hell, I have a hard time with sensory types in general, except for maybe ESTps.

3. Even if you do not believe in colour theory: what 2 colours you would choose, you feel comfortable with? Dark or light colours?

Yellow.

4. What films do you like to watch?

Foreign films produced in other non-english speaking countries.

5. What music do you like?

Anything that does not rhyme with crap or country.

6. How emotional are you? Do you show your emotions: lots of shouting or laughing? Are you loud or chatty? Do you hold an opinion for everything?

People think I am angry all the time, actually I probably am.

[Phaedrus]

My guess is that no one will take much notice of what my opinion is on this matter, at least not manyt of those who still continue arguing seem to think that it has much worth. But that's okay. Like many INTps, I have this urge to state what I believe is the truth, so I do it again.

You're OBVIOUSLY not a feeling type. It's clear to anyone with a pair of eyes and something behind them that this is the case.

This seems to me to be an obviously false statement, since there are many reliable and independent sources of information that suggest that I have two eyes and something behind them.

Reuben Mcnew has, from the very first posts I read from him, given me the impression of being a feeling type. That impression has not changed, it has actually grown stronger. It is based on his style of writing, his way of arguing, and many other little things he says about himself, even that latest thing about women, which it is very similar to what an ENFp friend of mine is like.

IF McNew has typed those ISTjs and ISFjs correctly, I think there is a good case for ENFp. If he hasn't, obviously the case is weaker.

I don't know if he has typed them correctly or not, but there is still a very good case for ENFp. As I said, I have a rather strong impression that he is a feeling type, and ENFp is the type I find the most likely. That guess is based on many small details, which all together fit what I know about real life ENFps.

Expat, you know I think highly of you, but...ENFp? Have you gone off the deep end? Maybe I'm just ignorant, or blind, or...something, but I see absolutely no ENFp in this guy. Not a single bone. What do you think in terms of VI?

My guess about Reuben's type is also based on V.I. In another thread I posted a picture of a Swedish politician, whom I have reason to believe is an ENFp, and I still think he probably has the same type look as Reuben. And even if that might be wrong, I still think that ENFp is the best guess based on V.I.

So, if Expat has gone off the deep end, I proably have too. I can definitely see ENFp in Reuben. In this case I agree with Expat, whom I also happen to think highly of when it comes to typing.

[Expat]

Thank you Phaedrus.

[Expat]

mcnew's issue with women is that he misunderstands what they want out of the relationship and ends up more attached to them than they are to him. he is also possessive. I am not convinced that these trust issues are type related.

Actually, it is totally the opposite. Women tend to like me and they want to get to know me, then they either get agressive because I seem luke-warm about wanting to get to know them and/or eventually give up, and conclude I just do not like them or something, which is not always true. Now, there have been girls I have persued, but I usually end up feeling hurt, miserable, rejected or something so I get depressed and do not try for long periods of time.

I actually like older 25+ women more than the younger ones, because by that age they have atleast learned how not to reject someone if they do reject, so in other words they do not do it in a stupid way that makes me hate women in general, like being indirect and talking about having sex or relationships with other guys until I get the point or complaining about personal problems or something.
.

Both Joy's and McNew's perceptions of what goes on strike me as describing someone who has preference and is exasperated with women who prefer , although from his previous descriptions it appears that he does know how to use to establish the initial contact.

over : Gamma or Delta. Still quite adept at using when he wants to. So ENFp, INFj, ESFp, ISFj. That is based on the above information only.

[Gilly]

Perhaps my statement about Reuban's alignment in terms of rationality was a bit...premature. If someone like Expat, for whom I have respect, is willing to consider a feeling type, then so am I.

Phaedrus-

You have brought to the table the element of VI, as well as the impression of a feeling type. I can respect your impression, and though I don't know how your VI skills are, I am willing to take your opinion into account. However, I maintain that Reuban's communication style is very much more aligned with Introverted Rationals, and appears nothing like an extraverted irrational. This seems immediately obvious to me; I don't know how or why others do not make this connection. Simply compare his writing to other INxjs and ENFps, and you will quickly see that his diction, word choice, and grammar are much more like the former.

As for VI, I am open to what you've said, but for now I maintain, as Reuban has agreed, that his expressions take on the characteristic seriousness of an INTj.

Could we perhaps get a few mugshots up here, just as a reference point?

[Angel von Himmel]

My guess about Reuben's type is also based on V.I. In another thread I posted a picture of a Swedish politician, whom I have reason to believe is an ENFp, and I still think he probably has the same type look as Reuben. And even if that might be wrong, I still think that ENFp is the best guess based on V.I.

That guy looked 95% like a cousin of mine who I am 100% sure is an ethical type, and not only do we look very much alike, we act very much the same and have the same goofy type of humor.

So, I would not say ENFp is off the mark.