IEIs-INFps: what do you want?

[silke]

lol I remember there was a thread on russian socionics forums somewhere titled "IEI - the independent combat unit"

[silverchris9]

I see life as a fight. I see some people as enemies, but most people as friends. I would encourage people to stay off of the enemies list though.

I don't consider myself a warrior unless I have to be. I do however consider life to be a struggle. I consider myself to be somewhat of a spiritual warrior, war displaced into the realm of the soul and the psyche and even the spirit. I wholeheartedly subscribe to Wallace Stevens on this: "Solider, there is a war between the mind/and sky, between thought and day and night." Life and poetry are fights for the truth on a spiritual/psychic plane. It's work to keep your sanity and grow your mind and perception. It's work to avoid lying to yourself or to others. It's a fight.

But I'm quicker to view others as potential allies than potential enemies.

[Reuben]

@silverchris

That's a good way to see it. But I challenge you to move it one more step: to never see people as enemies, but the ideas subduing them as being so. Then attack these ideas to the death, and you would have saved an allies' soul.

Feel free to replace 'ideas' with 'attitude', 'emotions', 'mindset', 'mentality'.

[tcaudilllg]

@silverchris

That's a good way to see it. But I challenge you to move it one more step: to never see people as enemies, but the ideas subduing them as being so. Then attack these ideas to the death, and you would have saved an allies' soul.

Feel free to replace 'ideas' with 'attitude', 'emotions', 'mindset', 'mentality'.

Many ideas are held due to a distinct ethical perspective, which in some cases the individual literally cannot help but adhere to.

[silverchris9]

@silverchris

That's a good way to see it. But I challenge you to move it one more step: to never see people as enemies, but the ideas subduing them as being so. Then attack these ideas to the death, and you would have saved an allies' soul.

Feel free to replace 'ideas' with 'attitude', 'emotions', 'mindset', 'mentality'.

Uh... this post kinda made me cringe.

I mean that's cute and all. But really. If you're going to live practically, (editorial) you have to treat some people as enemies. I mean I want everyone's soul to be saved, but I'm not always the one to do it. And people aren't under the control of some sort of incorrect idea---they're people, there's a hyper-complex series of reasons why they would behave in a way that's unpleasant or disagreeable or whatever.

In fact, many times, they're not any more right or wrong than you are---your interests just clash. And at that point in time, you have to try to ascertain what's best overall and do that, even if it continues to put you in conflict with perfectly nice people who aren't subscribing to some sort of evil idea or anything.

And just 'cause you treat someone like an enemy in one regard, doesn't mean you can't still be friends in other areas. Just like sports. On the field, that guy is your enemy, even if he's your best friend off the field.

So, summary, while I think that's a nice point, it's a touch too idealistic for me, or the wrong brand of idealism, or something. Also the whole "I challenge you to x" makes me think of a high school football coach. Just say what you mean...

(Sorry to like hate on your very short post like that. But, uh, you were curious about IEIs?)

[IEI]

I hate you Mr Bean.

[Leader]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWwCj...feature=relmfu

I hate you Mr Bean.

Damn, that was incredibly corny. I thought he'd atleast accidently push her off the stairs. Part of the actor's appeal and what makes him funny is the fact that his face is nasty looking.

[Absurd]

Part of the actor's appeal and what makes him funny is the fact that his face is nasty looking.

He's Jewish.

[Leader]

Lool...that's life.

[Absurd]

Lool...that's life.

Life is life, unless you want to trade it for 16types.info.

[silverchris9]

This thread has been fun to watch. Which one of you is discojoe?

[tcaudilllg]

I suppose taking action is as much a valid, and shaped, response to emotion as any. Maybe even the only real response. Actions can be variable or invariable with respect to a situation. When we assert that a person has variable response capacity, we call that choice. When the response is invariant, we call that a preference or trait, an expression of nature.

So, beta Ni is action then.

[silverchris9]

I suppose taking action is as much a valid, and shaped, response to emotion as any. Maybe even the only real response. Actions can be variable or invariable with respect to a situation. When we assert that a person has variable response capacity, we call that choice. When the response is invariant, we call that a preference or trait, an expression of nature.

So, beta Ni is action then.

Um, no. Not at all. You're way too external with it. Beta Ni is an introverted function. It's essence is more a mode of thought than a custom of external behavior, imo.

[Taknamay]

Never mind my last post, turns out I am EII.

[GuavaDrunk]

I suppose taking action is as much a valid, and shaped, response to emotion as any. Maybe even the only real response. Actions can be variable or invariable with respect to a situation. When we assert that a person has variable response capacity, we call that choice. When the response is invariant, we call that a preference or trait, an expression of nature.

So, beta Ni is action then.

Um, no. Not at all. You're way too external with it. Beta Ni is an introverted function. It's essence is more a mode of thought than a custom of external behavior, imo.

siuntal has an excellent diagram explaining this.

Ni is internalised intuition, as silverchris said it's a form of thinking and considering data, which may determine actions taken. But it does not directly lead to action. (see other side of dichotomy Se.) The Ni response to something is to consider it. Nothing more, nothing less.

What "Beta Ni" wants depends on the individual. How the individual processes that conclusion is Beta. Ni is a way of thinking, not a type of conclusion.

It may look like "Beta Ni" (Gamma Se, Delta Ne, etc.) wants a certain type of thing on this board because a lot of the members are from rich Western countries. Get a developing country's starving child IEI and the goals will be different. But their way of thinking, although alien due to the cultural gap, will still be Ni-based.

[silke]

Ni is internalised intuition, as silverchris said it's a form of thinking and considering data, which may determine actions taken. But it does not directly lead to action. (see other side of dichotomy Se.) The Ni response to something is to consider it. Nothing more, nothing less.

What "Beta Ni" wants depends on the individual. How the individual processes that conclusion is Beta. Ni is a way of thinking, not a type of conclusion.

Yeah Ni isn't any particular behavior. It is just a way of processing information. I've found some references to what sounds like N-S in literature describing workings of memory, so I am guessing it has something to do with internalizing and retrieving information about the past. What is then done with this information, what actions it engenders, depends on the individual and the context.

I do find that people of same type tend to promote similar kinds of philosophies (as creepy as this sounds). So it may be possible to combine all of Beta's prominent thinkers and philosophers together and distill whatever portion of their thinking that is Ni. But that would be an incredibly difficult task and I don't believe that the end result would really be meaningful.

[InkStrider]

I do find that people of same type tend to promote similar kinds of philosophies (as creepy as this sounds). So it may be possible to combine all of Beta's prominent thinkers and philosophers together and distill whatever portion of their thinking that is Ni.But that would be an incredibly difficult task and I don't believe that the end result would really be meaningful.

Off topic, but this is kind of like my idea of fun.

The problem with typing based on philosophy though, is that different types may be attracted to the same philosophy due to various reasons or through a differing interpretation/affinity with particular aspects of the philosophy. Adding enneagram into the picture, types at various degrees of integration/disintegration may also adopt a particular world view temporarily before dropping it as they grow more healthy/unhealthy.

The philosophy itself may be typed, but it's doubtful that its proponents may necessarily value the same information elements.

[silke]

Off topic, but this is kind of like my idea of fun.

The problem with typing based on philosophy though, is that different types may be attracted to the same philosophy due to various reasons or through a differing interpretation/affinity with particular aspects of the philosophy. Adding enneagram into the picture, types at various degrees of integration/disintegration may also adopt a particular world view temporarily before dropping it as they grow more healthy/unhealthy.

The philosophy itself may be typed, but it's doubtful that its proponents may necessarily value the same information elements.

If one was doing a PhD in socionics in Kiev somewhere with 4-5 years of paid research ahead that would be a fun dissertation topic. You could type individuals and then make them take a survey that say encompasses major philosophical ideas and see if there is any correlation. I wouldn't expect there to be a very strong correlation because as you say plenty of other factors would come into play, but it would be interesting to see if such correlation does exist and the magnitude of it.

on the other hand, may be it is better not to know ...