What do you think or would like to learn about them?
What do you think or would like to learn about them?
Jean Gabin, The Craftsman
Jean Gabin - the French movie actor.
1. An iceberg in the ocean. He is obstinate, reclusive, almost always equally cold and enigmatic. His movements are quiet, precise, and very economical: other people often get an impression that his results disproportionately exceed the efforts invested. He is characterized by non-ostentatious quiet persistence and reliable accomplishment of everything he commenced, internal responsibility for deeds and modesty. Like a typical Briton, he is not ostentatious in his attitude towards work, as well as not demonstrative in revealing his feelings at all. At first he may seem to do everything coolly, carelessly. But gradually it becomes clear that his unhurriedness reflects his general tempo of life: a combination of relaxation and perfection.
2. Talented laziness. Unlike The Searcher, he will scarcely spend his energy for futile work. He is a born inventor, but he does not hurry with the implementation of his ideas, until conditions for maximum effect will ripen. He is proud of his capability of not doing unnecessary things; adores comfort and conveniences. When performing common tasks together with somebody else, everything very easily and without pressure from his side goes the way he likes. All space accessible to him is organized ideally for work and rest. He is an aesthete who completely trusts his taste. He dresses very neatly, with taste, but as a rule not challenging convention. His skin is sensible: "a princess on a pea" must have been said about a woman of this type.
3. Reserved richness of emotions. It is his aptitude for hiding emotions under the mask of inapproachability and coldness that makes them finely ‘polished’ and expressive (there are many actors among representatives of this type, e.g. Vladimir Vyssotsky, Adriano Celentano). He is calm under any circumstances, but calm in a different manner. He remains cold and unapproachable when he loves, and does not hurry to trust feelings of his somewhat frivolous dual (The Psychologist). He is very jealous and mistrustful: he is horrified that his emotions will be ridiculed. In dangerous situations he stubbornly fears nothing, approaches the source of danger very calmly. This is his best move – to go directly towards the opponent, and the stronger one shall prevail. This is also the main pose of the actor Jean Gabin - impertinence, non-compliance, internal correctness and courage. The more lonely he is, the more unapproachable.
4. Goals and methods. Sometimes he may be mistaken for a lazybones and a chatterbox, especially when being without his dual for long: he speaks a lot but does nothing, as if waiting for something. In such a situation he is really waiting: for a scream for help. He will not work without a goal, and is not capable of inventing goals himself. Only The Psychologist, the ardent enthusiast, has a key, which starts up the precise and flawless mechanism of The Craftsman. As a reward The Craftsman considers the joy he has brought by his labor. He judges about sincerity of others by voice inflection, which automatically mobilizes him. Both desire and joy are often best expressed by his dual – The Psychologist – who is in addition a great specialist of finding talents and admiring them sincerely. And The Craftsman has to be a favorite, for he does not tolerate equal rewarding regardless of contribution. Only sincere feelings expressed by the eyes and intonations can win him over.
Your dual (psychologically complementary type): Tom Sawyer, The Psychologist (intuitive-ethical extrovert).
ISFPs have a characteristic stout or chubby, rounded figure. They often have short legs and a bouncy gait, giving the impression of a big springy ball. Their faces are usually smooth and round without any obvious projections. Sometimes ISFPs can have slightly upturned noses. Their eyes are often round. Their mouths sometimes have an uneven line. In moments of passionate conversation they often swallow air like a fish.
When ISFPs try to explain things, they can move their eyebrows considerably. This is the reason why they often have horizontal wrinkles on their forehead. ISFPs generally appear to be soft-hearted, but can become quite assertive if required. Their facial expression can change suddenly and unexpectedly from friendly one to a stern one, especially when they wish to distance themselves psychologically from someone. ISFPs are often inclined to give advise concerning will power and initiative.
ISFPs have a well developed aesthetic taste. Their clothes are usually neat, colourful and radiate a warm, comfortable feeling. They like to touch things in order to appreciate their physical qualities. When interacting with others ISFPs try to maintain a closeness. They are often outwardly sociable, charming and friendly. They know well how to endear themselves to others and how to make people trust them. They prefer to interact in a democratic fashion, avoiding the spotlight.
ISFPs do not usually try to push friendships. If they feel that a person does not want to establish contact with them they do not insist. They usually make just one attempt and if it is not successful they hardly ever try again. They maintain contact only with people that they find interesting. ISFPs find it fairly difficult to interact with people that they dislike, even if it goes against their interests. In these situations they lose their personal magnetism, and their speech may become unintelligible.
ISFPs enjoy gathering and sharing interacting facts and news. However, they always add a certain degree of colour to their narrative hoping to make it more interesting. This is the reason that ISFPs are rarely caught telling a story the same way twice. They can easily talk about a single subject for a considerable amount of time, especially about their recent experiences. They also like to read a variety of newspapers.
ISFPs do not like to unload their problems on others. When asked "How are you?" they usually reply that they are fine regardless of weather they are or not. ISFPs do not like to make promises. If someone asks them for their help they will often reply "I cannot promise but I will try..." or "If I can..." If they were not able to fulfil a promise they will continually apologise until they feel that they have been forgiven.
ISFPs have a strong desire to experience as much as they can and to enjoy themselves as much as possible. They love spending time and having fun with their friends, often joking and playing pranks. They do not like to be the centre of attention, but they also do not like to be too far away from where it is all happening. ISFPs behaviour can be so independent and original that they may confuse and bewilder other people. Because of this people can consider ISFPs to be light-minded.
ISFPs can usually only be productive when working for themselves. In all other cases it is rare for them to work hard. They try their best to avoid strenuous physical exercises wherever possible, unless it is in the course of a particular sporting activity that they enjoy.
Another behavioural pattern peculiar to ISFPs is their tendency to try and stay in the middle. To be neither the best or to be the worst. This is the reason that they do not like to openly criticise people and do not get involved in confrontations. ISFPs always try to keep well away from bosses and other authoritative figures. They do not like briefings and other boring business meetings. They try to negotiate on an informal level using only safe and reliable acquaintances. ISFPs try to maintain peaceful relations with everybody.
These subtype descriptions by Valentina Meged - Psychologist (intuitive-ethical extrovert) ENFP and Anatoly Ovcharov - Craftsman (sensory-logical introvert) ISTP, can be confusing and opinions on them are divided but nonetheless they should be worth looking at, in my opinion they can be of some use in typing.
This description was from www.socionics.org
Sotsionicheskaya newspaper: № 01 (01), 22.11.2002
Note of editorial staff.
Attention! Until now in sotsionike there is a large problem because the authors of the different theories of subtypes so did not agree about the general terminology. There exists as the minimum of 3 theories of 32 subtypes (authors of present article, V.V.Gulenko and Ye.S.Filatovoy). In each of these theories the type is divided into two subtypes, as the authors consider, with the "intensive" first or second function (i.e. for example logico- intuitive introvert it can be "logical" or "intuitive" subtype). Problem in the fact that each divides type in in own way own way, and here terms are used the same. We request to consider this with reading of article.
We focus attention on the fact that also the pseudonyms of types all the more subtypes, used in this article, they are not in sotsionike conventional.
Sensory- logical introvert: MASTER, ISTP
View SLI is variable: first it is directed toward one point, then, unnoticeably entire noticing, slides along the surrounding objects. The eyes calm, cold, serious, but if collocutor causes arrangement - soften. The expression of eyes reflects the general relation to those surrounding - it the ironic, the affectionate, the politely- apathetic.
Mimicry - monotonous, frequently thickened, sometimes animated, but only according to the situation it is short-term. In essence face looks like the impenetrable mask. Smile is more frequent that restrained, although it is unexpectedly open. The expression of face usually is a little mocking.
It is held confidently, but not it is demonstrative, with the merit, it does not love, when they scrutinize it, it prefers to be in the shadow. It is cold, unapproachable. Poses assume convenient, weakened, frequently slightly it slips down from the chair. The least discomfort in the situation notes: noise, unpleasant smells, a change in the temperature. It is very enterprising in questions of creation and maintenance of the necessary comfort, but without the excesses. Values, first of all, convenience.
Sensory subtype is modest and nedemonstrativen, is restrained and polite, obstinate and beskompromissen in settling of its interests. It argues its position by logic and by facts, but by the not devised reason. At times it is pensive, it departs to itself, it distances itself from those surrounding, being immersed in its problems. Are somewhat forged in the contact, it is laconic, but now and then he tries at raspolagayushche to smile, if he feels, that appears the tension in the conversation. It dresses with the taste, it loves original, qualitative, but modest things, it follows the health, the figure, the appearance. Aesthete, loves manual work. It is thorough and tedious. It is patient and persistent. If its matter carries along, it untiring improves its production - material or intellectual. Sometimes it needs change in the occupations, but he tries everything to lead to the end. It usually has the gracefully- lazy gestures, smooth and in this case confident and precise motions. Gait somewhat weakened, elastic. It does not love to hurry, but also it is not sluggish. It seems a little haughty.
Logical subtype is held on the distance, they will lock, now and then cuttings it is straight-line. It is very independent and proud, it enters in the manner that to it it is convenient. In the conversation it is prickly and ironic, but it becomes affable and interested, if sympathy and respect are experienced to the collocutor. After noting that it offended man, it will regret about this, it softens, converts everything into the joke or it begins to be apologized, to calm. The vulnerability and sensitiveness hides itself behind the external inaccessibility. It is impatient and mobile, it loves constant changes and new impressions. It is active, operational and it is very thoughtful. It does not love discomfort in any manifestations. Therefore he tries to correct everything, to repair and to adapt for the convenience. It is required, reliable and punctual. It is exacting to itself and by others. It behaves with the cold merit, but it is emotional. Behavior is not predicted: the unexpected passages from the cold contemplativeness to the impulse actions. The gestures are impulsive, are decisive. Gait rapid, measured off.
I figure I need to stir up some trouble in the delta this morning. Question. Why is the description of ISFP found under ISTP? Surely and oversight but not the worse thing that could happen. The ISFP seems so much kinder anyway. I dont think ISTP would visit a socionic site, at least not unitl it was well established in the culture like it seems to be in Russia.
I love you but I've chosen darkness
Good point. I guess we all miss Malyshka and were hoping she would come to fix this soon. (I am not a moderator on this forum.) Meanwhile I thought I might as well add the actual ISTP type description by Victor Gulenko, translated by Sergei Ganin:Originally Posted by Topaz
ISTPs normally have a very characteristic passionless facial expression, indeed their whole appearance shows a lack of emotion which may be interpreted as calmness, mystery or inaccessibility. Some ISTPs hide their lack of emotion behind the slightly artificial smile of a person who is seeking sensible pleasures. Their facial expressions often show scepticism or mistrust. Their faces are usually oval in shape and get more narrow towards the bottom, however more square faces are not rare.
Their mouth line is often calm, straight and turned slightly downwards at the corners. ISTPs have a characteristic one sided smile which when combined with their scepticism can sometimes be interpreted as self-satisfaction. Their teeth are often of equal width and their mouth is usually kept tightly shut even when relaxed. ISTPs also have a characteristic springy gait with the knees slightly bent giving them a characteristic surreptitious walk. In many cases ISTPs have athletic physical structures. ISTPs prefer informal or sporty style clothes which look more comfortable than aesthetic. Clothes usually fit ISTPs well.
ISTPs are quite sceptical in their evaluations and even more stubborn in their opinions. Often even before the conversation has begun, ISTPs opinion is already firm and non-negotiable. Debates with ISTPs can go on forever. Even if ISTPs seem to agree with you, their opinion is unlikely to alter. ISTPs have difficulty in controlling their emotions. When they do loose control, they may become biting, rough and excited, raising their voice and gesticulating fervently. ISTPs also like consonant sounds which can make their speech slightly rough and resonant.
ISTPs never share their feelings with people they do not know well and will hardly ever share them with their friends. They try to avoid people who make too much effort to get inside their emotional world. They appreciate a spiritual balance very much and therefore they can be interested in all sorts of meditations, etc. Generally ISTPs do not like shaking hands, hugging and similar forms of greeting. When outside their territory, ISTPs may openly ignore people that they have met before.
Whatever ISTPs do, they try to extract a practical use from it. They are definitely not the type who will work powered only by enthusiasm. They may seem a little slow to start new work, but once they are in motion they will try to achieve the maximum possible return. They are very practical people.
ISTPs demand complete independence. They only allow people to get close up to a certain point, where they are still out of the range from outside influence. ISTPs value their friends and friendships very much. ISTPs actively seek excitement and thrive on the rush of adrenaline.
ISTPs have their own convictions that they will usually follow, even if they are different from common norms and moralities. This may give the impression that ISTPs are not interested in other peoples opinions of them. ISTPs also have a great deal of persistence which probably comes from their stubbornness giving them a reputation as obstinate, rebellious people and even delinquents when young.
"Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
I really like those macho ladies as they are more masculine than I am so I like if they are little bit dominating over me. Don't know why and I am sure at the moment I am being ENTp so this all makes me wander a lot.Specially this energy blast one ISTp with her agressivnes gave me.
What about it?Did you ever watch American Gladiator?
Now just how could you get an ISTP to "open up"? Doing the things they enjoy doing? PDAs? This is an interesting topic. Thanks.
You don't... Well, there is something called alcohol or drugs which may just do the trick.Now just how could you get an ISTP to "open up"?
Have patience. Talk about your own life and ask them about theirs. You may have to coax them. If they think they can trust you not to betray this "inner personality" that they hide, they will spew forth much information, glad to finally have someone in which they can confide in and share things with. Try to add a little of your own experiences to it, ISTPs don't like giving information without getting some in return.
--(I'm an INTP who tries to be perceived as an ISTP, and most people seem convinced by my attempts. I really should make this my signature so I do not have to keep repeating myself.) However, the information above only pretains to the type I was attempting to be, and wouldn't necessarily work. Some ISTPs actually convince themselves that they have nothing to share and thus can't "open up". I know a few like that.
Haha. That last post made me smile. *high 5*
Hmm...I can see what you're getting at...I've been doing that unknowingly and have had success...But you're making sense to me...Like I've said before, I've known him for two years, and I only found out about a week ago that he had a dog. Maybe it's because no one ever asked him, but I can tell he's been more comfortable in confiding with me more.
As for your personal experience as an "ISTP", what would you recommend to non-ISTPers trying to win an ISTP over? Muchas gracias!
Well, you have to win their trust. I would think 2 years would be long enough to have won their trust. Sounds like you sort of have.
Another thing is, ISTPs like being direct. They like it when people are direct to them, as well. Try to always provide reasons in anything you say to them. A good way to ask an ISTP out, for example, would be, "So, do you want to go to the movies with me Friday night? I heard there is this really FUN, ACTION-PACKED movie with PEOPLE DYING IN IT out."
Seriously, the above works, although I will not explain how I realized that. All of that appeals to them. Even if it doesn't, ISTPs can't resist the urge to act macho and take up going to a movie like that - not going would be "wimpy", one of their prime fears.
If you like them, just tell them, simply, because ISTPs have Fi as their last function, and it will take them ages to figure it out themselves. They hate suspense in their own lives, even if they are action-oriented.
This information on hedonists may be more useful.
Exactly.Originally Posted by Anonymous
I see now...*rubs chin*...So I must appeal to his sense of masculinity, eh? Interesting, very interesting...*evil grin*
Guest: skips off into horizon
asexual fairgeek: [rolls eyes]
How didja know? I (INFJ >.<) was planning on telling him straight up tomorrow...hehe...Well then, there's always that hot guy in my history class... :wink:
Well then, hmm...Jeez man. You're gonna make me stay up all night planning this out..*kicks her J function* LOL
I would like help on how to get along with ISTP. I have trouble getting along with my brother who is ISTP. They usualay scare me too as when I say hi they usually don't give a smile. Give a very serious look. In my experience with guys who are ISTP as also teenagers, are jerks to me and enjoy it too. There ysually big, somewhat buffed too.
Not all ISTps are big and buff, but all ISTps want to seem intimidating to others, because they don't want people getting too close and understanding them (although their hidden agenda is to love). ISTPs who are completely reserved in their emotions rarely smile, but it doesn't mean they can't have fun. As is said on http://the16types.info/types-ISTP.php:
"...remains cold and unapproachable when he loves, and does not hurry to trust feelings of his somewhat frivolous dual (The Psychologist). He is very jealous and mistrustful: he is horrified that his emotions will be ridiculed..."
ISTps will let loose around a select number of people they trust and understand, and then they will smile and actually talk.
I have met female ISTPs before who are a high percent sensing. Very active, competitive, and reserved although they have emotional outbursts that get way out of hand (ISTPs can have a weak Fe just like INTPs). When they have these outbursts they can get very physically violent and throw things; do things they regret later that get them into trouble. Most of the ISTPs I have met and befriended are guys, though. They don't seem to enjoy being jerks, that just seems to be something with teenage guys in general...
Also, just because they are sensors does not mean they aren't interested in philosophy or deeper subjects, they are always good to have along for a reality check on crazy ideas. An ISTp friend of mine loves philosophy, he just approaches it from a practical perspective.
Note, ISTP and ISTp are used interchangeably in this post, however, all references to this type should be considered socionics references that I have pieced together from socionics descriptions & personal experience.
So I don't have to keep repeating it: (75%I 60%N 87%T 82%P)
Thanks I forgot to mention that I haven't meet anyone who is ISTP who is also an adult. My brother really gets along with ENFP's. I don't mean to mean to ISTP.
As an ENFP has a wild child switch, ISTPs have just as much an emotional switch I think. We become emotionally unstable because we dont want to think about how we are feeling and try to keep it bottled up. Numbness is better then being overwhelmed by the strong feelings you can have for someone. Believe me as an ISTP, you can truly have strong feelings for friends and family, even though you will appear cold to others around you and even yourself for trying not to feel those emotions. When they do boil over, since an ISTP is so attached to the physical environment around him or her, it is natural that this overwhelming anger/sadness manifests itself in the ISTPs violent behaviour through some destructive or unproductive outburst of energy.
I dunno Ive had a lot of coffee this morning, just a thought from an actual ISTP . I hate crying.
oh btw what movie has people dying in it? Im there
I'm glad someone here is finally ISTp so I can stop assuming things and posing as one.
Looking at a list of movies that are currently playing, these are the likely candidates for having people dying in them. I don't know for sure, though, because I haven't seen any yet:
War of the Worlds
The Land of the Dead
Kingdom of Heaven (strong violence and "epic warfare")
There aren't that many overtly violent movies out, except for maybe that last one.
And don't forget the ultimate male adrenaline rush -- Fight Club!
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
I love movies with violence, but I prefer when it isnt senseless... Killing with a purpose... Killing of all sorts is usually stimulating though. I mean the ISTP could find more enjoyment in the drive there if it was fast enough (not to encourage any erradic driving). Kingdom of Heaven is an alright movie but it wasnt as good as I thought it had been. I would go for War of the Worlds, I havent seen it yet though. I am ashamed that Tom Cruise is supposedly an ISTP
Good luck, and remember even if you get them us out of our shell... We still might resist or seem to be reluctant to pursue the relationship.. I think ISTPs take a lot of effort to build a relationship with and the challenge makes us attractive but you can only only work on a challenge so long until it becomes a bore and you move on (especially for our ENFP duals). However, once you catch an ISTP the rewards can be plentiful, if you dont cheat on us (then we go back to the death and destruction theme... ). We really are looking for love even if we dont admit it to the outside world or ourselves. Especially harder for the guys who really equate loving with being a wuss unfortunately. Enuff said.
Damn these people coming here and wanting to win an INTj or ISTp or whatever over. Ever notice how noone asks for help on winning an INTp over?
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
That doesn't surprise me, because I don't think Cruise is an ISTP. I don't think Joe Butt is a very reliable typist. He seems to be very superfical and doesn't really understand the types.Originally Posted by ice
They claim that Trump is an ISFP.They say that Abe Lincoln and Micheal Jordan are ENFJs. They also say that Martin Luther King Jr. was an INFJ, but he was really an ENTJ. Jerry Seinfeld's an ISFJ and even Jung is said to be an INTP.
BrainTypes.com claim that Cruise is an ENFJ, which seems more likely. And that would make him your conflict .
This is because every "T"-type seems "J" to an "F"-type once they get to know them...Originally Posted by Cone
How utterly confusing...*shakes fists at strong emphathetic abilities*
How exactly can we detect or pick up on these "strong feelings that ISTPs carry beneath the surface"?
Here are the corrected subtype placements.Originally Posted by Curious
Aha! I knew it! He did have a mushy interior this whole time! :-D
Decorator is the sensory subtype and Innovator is the logical subtype. (just switch on your logic to understand that )Take it from an ISTP female
(I am of the sensory subtype myself)
I was wondering too. Maybe there is some connection with the influx of these ENFPs who seek INTJs. Something like when Herzblut came some INFPs popped-up
hm. it's half-serious.
I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.
EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!
I had previously changed the subtype titles (i.e. "sensory subtype") to fit with the appropiate decriptions...but I just forgot to switch the headings too.Originally Posted by Anonymous
so the original posting is correct
ISTP women are very interesting. I observed one at my gym and I saw that she saw me. She never said a word to me and I never spoke with her... However, after watching her for a bit I realized how damn unapproachable I really am. We must epitomize hard to get. For a female I was especially surprised. Its like she looked like a soldier, ready for battle, even while lifting weights. I can see why others see us as enigmas. Its frustrating. I was pursued by an ENFP before, but never even knew it even though all the signs were there in retrospect. Whenever there was a sign I would tell myself otherwise. Now of course I think about her all the time damn it (being my dual ). This might sound very weird to others but I feel like kissing is pointless lol, and I only hope one day I can master such an odd thing to me. I LITTLE NOTE FOR THOSE LOOKING FOR AN ISTP: TELL US HOW U FEEL CAUSE WE HAVE NO BLOODY CLUE. I swear I always wondered why someone would think I was fucked up for having a weird sick sense of humour at such a young age.
Its funny I look back and when I was younger kids used to try to scare other ones by making a fast move and going oh you flinched. Now I know why I flinched almost everytime, even when I knew what was coming. We are so connected to our physical environment. Looking back I loved sports and play fighting. Bullying is not in an ISTP or for that matter INTPs vocabulary in the school yard at least (although who knows who is laughing on the sidelines). I think this has to do with the hidden agenda to love. I really enjoy talking with INTPs because we are both so logical in our approach to any matter. ENFPs I love to talk just because of the energy I feel. I know that sounds weird but its the only way to describe it. I touch an ENFP of the opposite sex and it feels like Im driving a ferrari at 200km/h. I get along with ISFPs and ESTPs extremely well because we are all hedonists and can drink the nite away and can talk about anything. ESTJs I get along with, and I envy specific aspects of them (can you say ORGANIZED???). My room is always a mess, and Ive learned I cant fight it, I hope to get a maid some day lol. This was a specific source of conflict with my judging parents, mom being an INFJ so she was more empathetic to me... Though my ESTJ father was far less understanding. Another aspect I love about the ESTJs is their loyalty and devotion to friends and family.
ISTPs have a lot to offer for sure... Ive had some bad experience with my semi-dual, ENTPs though. I find them crafty, shifty, and with the tendency to lie, although these are just my encounters in the early twenties, I hear they are more matured in certain matters when they reach 30s and 40s. I hope so.
I become depressed when I havent been exercising, I lack sleep, and or am having bad interactions with friends. After encountering my dual, I feel like thats all I can settle for now, which narrows the possibilities down a bit. I definitely hope thats not a mistake. Anyways, April if ur reading this, private msg me, Im curious to really get into the mind of a female ISTP.
If it wasnt for certain connections, my liscence wouldve been revoked by now because of the amount of speeding tickets (at least my insurance would be INSANE). In other words the speed limit is a guideline for the others to follow for whatever reasons. I can see the need and purpose for them but know I can get away it usually so I do. I almost enjoy predicting radar setups by the cops now, and try to slow down by potential ones and feel happy when I get em right.
Now thats a post. I didnt even bother checking my spelling Im so tired, just had some trouble sleeping tonite though.