Taking Inventory: Aleksei's type poll

[Aleksei]

I'm not really doubting my type at this point; but I'm curious about exactly what the forum's general opinion is on my type. So I'm putting up a poll.

[Cat King Cole]

OBviously ESI brah.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

You are hard to psychoanalyze because I haven't really gotten enough of your essence yet.

I could see a fi polr entp I suppose.

[woofwoofl]

sorry, sexy Aleksei - had to go Ne-ILE for you!

I tried to respond to all that you posted towards me, and I was unable to get stuff done with the thinking at all - aside from me having to put you as separate from Golden, Gilly, and the EIEs I've met in person, I had the same thing where I get along with you great, but it's damn near impossible for me to think in such a way that I'd find to make sense for you, and perhaps vice-versa... this sort of thing has happened, and is happening currently between me and Ne-ILEs (it's a bit rougher with Ti-ILEs)...

I got weak from you in the chatbox, when you talked about being up for that huge amount of time, but I don't know if it's enough to set as a Polr (you also went in explicit detail about enjoying the coffee flavored drink, right down to all of its specific contents, the flavor and texture of the crunchy stuff; if I'm just cooking for me, then food is healthy and cost-effective and I require no more, I go fancy when cooking for others though)... I'm trying to remember the moment that I swore you had (you asked me for it, I want to be able to deliver), but my brain is completely shitting the bed here...

I don't feel a usage of F from you that would place it in an Ego block; I'm in a Serious quadra, I might not be connecting with it as much as I should, but I'd expect a different sort of F from an EIE (the EIE girl I saw a few days back would be a huge contrast, I couldn't make much sense of that kinda ups and downs stuff, absolutely bewildering, but some of the things she said about passion were pretty profound and stuck in my mind)...

I see no reason for personalities to be completely set in stone (they're not), so if you can find a way to buff the shit out of your and your , then you'll be in Beta for sure

[Anglas]

Maybe alpha NT

[Raver]

You are ILE just like Gilly. You confuse your HA for your dominant function and it's actually quite hilarious seeing you over use it. The PoLR is also quite evident in a lot of your posts.

[silke]

Ti-ILE, you don't have that directed, energetic EJ approach but rather more spontaneous, carefree manner about you that is common for EPs

Why you're Ti subtype imho is that you seem to get sort of fiery and aggressive when you run into disagreements and have a propensity to state your opinions categorically, with confidence. Ne-ILEs have a more of this free-flowing, more harmonious attitude. You do remind me of Ineffable but he is stronger on Ti, you're more Ne-ish but still correspond to what I know of Ti-ILEs the best.

but not like it matters much, just stay EIE and come hang out on beta forum

[Aleksei]

I wasn't gonna actually start a discussion, but what the hell.

ILE. You use Ti in an irritating, blocked-with-Ne way, like Bolt and some ILEs I know IRL.

How do you mean?

I guess it could be Ti-DS, as if you actually meant, "These are my theories, correct me please!"

Ahh, here's the crux of the matter. you'd expect an EIE's Ti to actually appear sufficiently weak to be suggestive, correct? Which is reasonable, except that if the EIE in question is an image type (3 especially), and immersed in an NT atmosphere (like a debate forum), they'd carefully conceal the fact they have trouble with it, lest they be consider morons, non?

You also miss subtleties and inflections in other people's posts too often for me to consider you Fe-ego.

Like?

[Hemoglobin]

Total ILI-Ni

[Aleksei]

Total ILI-Ni

DINGDINGDING WE HAVE A WINNER!

[Aleksei]

I also don't see aristocracy, or much Ni/Se valuing. Every time this comes up, you respond with "I am so!"... do you have good examples?

On Aristocratic, very little I can post here without being admonished by the mod staff for either personal attacks or racism. I do have an accounting from a friend on it though -- which I'd posted on Woof's wall earlier.

[7/8/2011 10:14:55 PM] Winter: after talking to you heaps
[7/8/2011 10:14:59 PM] Winter: you're definitely an EIE
[7/8/2011 10:15:10 PM] Winter: when i compare you to other EIEs
[7/8/2011 10:15:21 PM] darkmasterjoey: Half the Socionics community thinks I'm ILE.
[7/8/2011 10:15:30 PM] darkmasterjoey: Half the Socionics community are tards, however.
[7/8/2011 10:15:32 PM] Winter: well... they're wrong.
[7/8/2011 10:15:35 PM] Winter: end of story
[7/8/2011 10:15:38 PM] darkmasterjoey: heh
[7/8/2011 10:15:52 PM] Winter: i know lots of ILEs
[7/8/2011 10:15:57 PM] Winter: and you certainly are not one
[7/8/2011 10:16:12 PM] darkmasterjoey: How so?
[7/8/2011 10:16:28 PM] Winter: you dont have the same skittish energy
[7/8/2011 10:17:21 PM] darkmasterjoey: I was actually seriously having issues with that before -- I'd fit pretty much every marker for Beta NF, except... Ni use. I couldn't find where I use Ni.
[7/8/2011 10:17:55 PM] Winter: well i dont see you as an alpha...
[7/8/2011 10:17:58 PM] Winter: for a simple reason
[7/8/2011 10:18:01 PM] darkmasterjoey: Problem is though that 1) I've developed my suggestive (it is actually still very shitty though), and 2) psychology debates don't lend themselves to Ni use.
[7/8/2011 10:18:17 PM] Winter: you're very mujch aware of social dynamics and structure
[7/8/2011 10:18:22 PM] Winter: you see the heirarchy
[7/8/2011 10:18:31 PM] Winter: and you beeline to where you need to go and who you need to talk to
[7/8/2011 10:18:45 PM] darkmasterjoey: Yeah, kind of instinctively so
[7/8/2011 10:19:05 PM] Winter: indeed, which indicates Beta > Alpha to me
[7/8/2011 10:19:11 PM] darkmasterjoey: Anyway, I went back into the Politics forum and BAM. Pure Ni after 3 or 4 posts.
[7/8/2011 10:19:17 PM] Winter: hot
[7/8/2011 10:19:33 PM] darkmasterjoey: Yeah
[7/8/2011 10:19:52 PM] darkmasterjoey: I posted two Ni-riddled posts from PoFo on the thread I made.
[7/8/2011 10:20:08 PM] darkmasterjoey: one on the min wage, one on India.
[7/8/2011 10:25:04 PM] Winter: sorry internet died!!! [7/8/2011 10:25:25 PM] darkmasterjoey: hahaha don't worry.
[7/8/2011 10:25:46 PM] Winter: but yeah, i dont see you as an alpha
[7/8/2011 10:26:00 PM] Winter: i see you a lot as a beta... you talk about your friends a lot
[7/8/2011 10:26:07 PM] Winter: which to me shows me group mentality
[7/8/2011 10:26:18 PM] darkmasterjoey: I'm definitely aristocratic as hell
[7/8/2011 10:26:18 PM] Winter: but also i notice we talk about emotions in a very controled manner
[7/8/2011 10:26:24 PM] Winter: between ourselves
[7/8/2011 10:26:28 PM] darkmasterjoey: Which is why I never bought Alpha
[7/8/2011 10:26:36 PM] Winter: like... we'll be open about it, but never so much engaging said emotion
[7/8/2011 10:27:15 PM] Winter: also you have the same sexual energy i get from other betas
[7/8/2011 10:27:39 PM] darkmasterjoey: oooh, typology by boners
[7/8/2011 10:27:42 PM] darkmasterjoey: me likey
[7/8/2011 10:27:52 PM] darkmasterjoey: in what way do you mean
[7/8/2011 10:27:55 PM] Winter: its totally true though
[7/8/2011 10:28:21 PM] Winter: at my gatherings its really obvious... Sam Bradley (Moredhel) is one of the only non betas in my group of friends
[7/8/2011 10:28:47 PM] Winter: well... you're a lot more open about sexuality but not in an aggressive manner. it's just casual conversation
[7/8/2011 10:28:56 PM] Winter: but not unlike any other topic
[7/8/2011 10:29:24 PM] Winter: i noticed betas seem to be very casual about sex as a conversational topic and dont have to change the mood
[7/8/2011 10:29:42 PM] Winter: like.. alphas can be open too... but they seem to focus solely on that... and its almost like an effort
[7/8/2011 10:29:52 PM] Winter: while betas switch back and forth between that and other topics
[7/8/2011 10:31:17 PM] darkmasterjoey: Yeah, that makes sense
[7/8/2011 10:31:54 PM] Winter: also your flirting is more daring
[7/8/2011 10:32:01 PM] Winter: *shrugs*
[7/8/2011 10:32:11 PM] Winter: btw, i think Limit is an SLE
[7/8/2011 10:32:25 PM] darkmasterjoey: It's because 1) sex is not any sort of pressing concern for us, and 2) we're fairly uninhibited as far as what we can say or cannot say -- particularly in atmospheres where we feel comfortable.
[7/8/2011 10:32:46 PM] darkmasterjoey: So for us it's like talking about hte weather.
[7/8/2011 10:32:47 PM] darkmasterjoey: *the
[7/8/2011 10:32:49 PM] Winter: yes, i definitely noticed that.

As for the aforementioned Ni, it pops up in pretty much every other post I make about politics. Example:

Zero. While it is true that labor has a highly inelastic supply and a highly elastic demand leading to a steep wage drop if the minimum wage is eliminated, the real underlying reason for this is the very existence of unemployment, which is a function of investment rates (as investment is the basis for economic production, is the basis for employment). lower wages generate higher profit margins, which allow for greater investment and greater economic growth, which assuming increasing capital intensity and containment in job market growth (which means not letting fucking wetbacks come in and take all the new jobs), it eventually results in the bargaining position turning in favor of the worker

That's the problem. There's nothing to indicate that India possesses the necessary elements to sustain its present economic growth, which is based mostly on comparative advantage and will likely peter out within a few years. India lacks the necessary infrastructure to support an advanced industrial economy, the necessary human capital and the necessary rate of capital investment. And it appears to be making no headway in improving any of those.

In the long run, it would be very costly to abandon space exploration. Resource depletion is a very real problem in industrialized Earth, and while technological solutions are readily available to allow us to utilize our resources more efficiently, ultimately we will end up running out of necessary minerals and the like. And the natural solution to that (that is, the natural solution that doesn't require us to become cavemen, something that I'm not even inclined to consider) is to colonize space.

Incidentally, 1) I count at least six EIE typings (off the top of my head) from other threads, and 2) one of the typings here was a joke. I'll allow your awesome NiFe skills of people-reading to figure out which.

[NewBorn STAR]

I also don't see aristocracy, or much Ni/Se valuing. Every time this comes up, you respond with "I am so!"... do you have good examples?

On Aristocratic, very little I can post here without being admonished by the mod staff for either personal attacks or racism. I do have an accounting from a friend on it though -- which I'd posted on Woof's wall earlier.



As for the aforementioned Ni, it pops up in pretty much every other post I make about politics. Example:

In the long run, it would be very costly to abandon space exploration. Resource depletion is a very real problem in industrialized Earth, and while technological solutions are readily available to allow us to utilize our resources more efficiently, ultimately we will end up running out of necessary minerals and the like. And the natural solution to that (that is, the natural solution that doesn't require us to become cavemen, something that I'm not even inclined to consider) is to colonize space.

Incidentally, 1) I count at least six EIE typings (off the top of my head) from other threads, and 2) one of the typings here was a joke. I'll allow your awesome NiFe skills of people-reading to figure out which.

Nobody cares

[Gilly]

Don't worry, everybody's just out to make you angry.

Don't worry, I don't. Funny how precisely you, who don't even hide the fact that you're his follower, deny you're in a clique. Because that's what you do, since you're suggesting it's all in my mind.

Lol thank you. Galen and Poli pretending they aren't Ashton's minions is kind of like Dick Cheney claiming to have no interests in Haliburton so he could start a war. They are clearly "together," always parroting the same typings and jumping in bed with one another in any thread they get the chance. Their claims otherwise only serve as some facade of objectivity.

[The Ineffable]

Yeah but Galen is also an official on pokemonix.com of landlord Ashton. It's not just "it looks like".

Edit: oh and preaches Ashtonics(TM) too.

[strrrng]

The contradiction is that if he were were Fi-PoLR instead of Fe-Base, he probably wouldn't give a shit about your opinions since long ago. He is visibly craving for social acceptance, while I personally am not that disturbed each time the crowds go kookoo, neither I think voting someone's type has any use.

that's Fe-seeking, not Fe-dominance. people don't depend on their base function's expression from others.

Ok I have to step in here because you and I have had this same debate and neither of you are properly representing both sides of the argument.

Obviously Jung and Augusta are trying to describe basically the same psychological phenomena. I don't think anyone disputes that. But, given the generalized descriptions and vague criteria that each give, some pretty large discrepencies rear their ugly heads, not simply in a purely definitional sense (in fact to a true theoretical purist they describe the exact same things, really), but when you look at what each one is actually attempting to describe, if you can look through their eyes and imagine the kinds of people that each describe, you get a pretty different picture. Granted this is theoretically easily reconciled with a mental band-aid if you presume them to be different types, because obviously different types would have different subjective takes on the same [kinds of] people, but that's a mental shortcut and a half, and amounts to nothing more than an excuse to go on believing what you believe, because obviously there is no consensus on their types, and it's also circular reasoning. For example, having read chapter 10 of Psychological Types about half a million times, I don't see how anyone could type Tcaud, for example, as anything but an Ni type, given jung's description, what with being a classic "crank" and having all sorts of strange ideas about how things interconnect and giving odball descriptions of sociological processes and different EM archetypes and all this other nonsense. But it's obvious to anyone who knows the theory that he's just a loopy-ass LII, and his REAL thinking processes seem to fit Ti perfectly.

alright, I never suggested or implied that one system was more theoretically relevant than the other; I highlighted their implicit continuity because I feel that synthesis with respect to time period and theoretical boundaries is the most effective way to develop a cohesive idea of types. I take from each what is relevant, and go from there; it's idiots like aleksei who are unable to conceptualize things past the degree to which they're predefined for them.

hence:

I think Jung and Augusta just give different emphases to the natures of the same functions, which are still essentially the same psychological processes, by definition and heritage, but wind up looking like completely different things in light of the real insights of the two different creators. Personally I think it's amateurish and misguided to assume that both systems give congruous definitions and emerge as analogous theories with identical precepts, but it's also rather naive to assume that just because they have different criteria that they are talking about entirely different things.

agreed completely, which is why, say, back in the day I always told YOU it was flawed to write off my understanding as Jungionics, or better yet, Model X Dogma. and yet you're clarifying this point now like some kind of arbiter? please.

my attitude towards the systems amounts to: Jung gave a phenomenological basis that aushra refined; I find his insights into the nuances of functions superior, as aushra reduces them to not only abstract qualifiers but actual behaviors/"types" of information, i.e. force and facts; but ultimately I find aushra's model extremely useful. the latter can only be predicated on a solid understanding of functions, otherwise you end up coming on forums to get yourself validated as an EIE and then copout, "all my friends think I am, you're retards!" etc.

In the end, neither theory comes close to apprehending a cohesive model of information processing, so to assume that they are "the same" just because what they are ATTEMPTING to describe is the same totally ignores the fact that both are probably wrong, and yet to assume that they are totally different ignores the fact that they stem from the same ideas and are aimed at the same target. It's a fucking conundrum but if you think there is some obvious way around it, then the only obvious thing is that you are dogmatically attached to the ideas of either/both systems and thus completely full of shit.

again, this is the same position I had back when you and the rest of the Classical Socionists were drawing social boundaries to justify theoretical adherence.

[Aleksei]

The contradiction is that if he were were Fi-PoLR instead of Fe-Base, he probably wouldn't give a shit about your opinions since long ago. He is visibly craving for social acceptance, while I personally am not that disturbed each time the crowds go kookoo, neither I think voting someone's type has any use.

that's Fe-seeking, not Fe-dominance. people don't depend on their base function's expression from others.

So, craving for social acceptance = Fe-seeking? o.O

[Gilly]

that's Fe-seeking, not Fe-dominance. people don't depend on their base function's expression from others.

See here's the conundrum. He doesn't showcase the trademark insouciance/lack of caring of others' opinions like Fi PoLRs usually do (case in point Pinnochio), and yet he does show a kind of "attention seeking" that isn't uncommon for Fe HA types. So one for, one against.

The only thing is, other EIEs demonstrate this kind of uncertainty AND seeking for "approval" of their type: Kristiina did the same thing, I do it, NewBorn Star openly claims attention whore status...so I'm not sure how much it's really an indicator of Fe HA. I mean, the real for sure 100% ILEs around here (1981Slater, Pinnochio, hkkmr, HaveLucidDreamz) don't go doing that kind of thing, at least not in the same openly solicitous manner that Kristiina, myself, and other self-typed EIEs do, so I would wonder if it's even Fe-HA related at all.

[Absurd]

The monkey comes out of the sleeve.

[NewBorn STAR]

The monkey comes out of the sleeve.

Hey its absurd

[NewBorn STAR]

that's Fe-seeking, not Fe-dominance. people don't depend on their base function's expression from others.

See here's the conundrum. He doesn't showcase the trademark insouciance/lack of caring of others' opinions like Fi PoLRs usually do (case in point Pinnochio), and yet he does show a kind of "attention seeking" that isn't uncommon for Fe HA types. So one for, one against.

The only thing is, other EIEs demonstrate this kind of uncertainty AND seeking for "approval" of their type: Kristiina did the same thing, I do it, NewBorn Star openly claims attention whore status...so I'm not sure how much it's really an indicator of Fe HA. I mean, the real for sure 100% ILEs around here (1981Slater, Pinnochio, hkkmr, HaveLucidDreamz) don't go doing that kind of thing, at least not in the same openly solicitous manner that Kristiina, myself, and other self-typed EIEs do, so I would wonder if it's even Fe-HA related at all.

THis is very much me how you descriped uncertaintly and seeking aproval for my typing.

I want someone to convince me. But then again im not sure how much my mental ilness is affecting me right now in my behavior. So we will see when the storm has calmed down.

Also i dont think im not an attention whore in a similiar way than he is. I usually have point to my ways. Whereas he is more like trying to be funny for its own sake and being entertainning cool and other alpha shit.

I cant see him as my identical.

[Gilly]

THis is very much me how you descriped uncertaintly and seeking aproval for my typing.

I want someone to convince me. But then again im not sure how much my mental ilness is affecting me right now in my behavior. So we will see when the storm has calmed down.

Yeah I'm the same way; I'm bipolar and I don't know if maybe that has something effect on how I perceive my type, but I am always looking for confirmation; even though I'm very introspective and have a pretty high level of self-awareness, I have a lot of insecurity about what my real, direct presence is like and what it's like to be around me (Si PoLR I suppose), so type is kind of a confusing thing for me.

By the way I think I've said that exact phrase multiple times: that I want someone to convince me of my type, because I don't see how I could be certain of it on my own. Ti-seeking covering up weak Si to the max.

Also i dont think im not an attention whore in a similiar way than he is. I usually have point to my ways. Whereas he is more like trying to be funny for its own sake and being entertainning cool and other alpha shit.

I cant see him as my identical.

Well I don't think he is, personally; you seem more IEI to me. I do think Aleksei is either ILE or EIE; I'm not really sure which, but I think the reasons most people are lumping him as an ILE are superficial and based more on his persona than the way he processes information.

[1981slater]

that's Fe-seeking, not Fe-dominance. people don't depend on their base function's expression from others.

See here's the conundrum. He doesn't showcase the trademark insouciance/lack of caring of others' opinions like Fi PoLRs usually do (case in point Pinnochio), and yet he does show a kind of "attention seeking" that isn't uncommon for Fe HA types. So one for, one against.

The only thing is, other EIEs demonstrate this kind of uncertainty AND seeking for "approval" of their type: Kristiina did the same thing, I do it, NewBorn Star openly claims attention whore status...so I'm not sure how much it's really an indicator of Fe HA. I mean, the real for sure 100% ILEs around here (1981Slater, Pinnochio, hkkmr, HaveLucidDreamz) don't go doing that kind of thing, at least not in the same openly solicitous manner that Kristiina, myself, and other self-typed EIEs do, so I would wonder if it's even Fe-HA related at all.

1981slater= Dominant
Pinocchio= Creative
Hkkmr=Normalizing
HaveLucidDreamz=Harmonizing

[Gilly]

1981slater= Dominant
Pinocchio= Creative
Hkkmr=Normalizing
HaveLucidDreamz=Harmonizing

You might actually be right about this, lol. Kind of convenient.

[Gilly]

my attitude towards the systems amounts to: Jung gave a phenomenological basis that aushra refined; I find his insights into the nuances of functions superior, as aushra reduces them to not only abstract qualifiers but actual behaviors/"types" of information, i.e. force and facts; but ultimately I find aushra's model extremely useful. the latter can only be predicated on a solid understanding of functions, otherwise you end up coming on forums to get yourself validated as an EIE and then copout, "all my friends think I am, you're retards!" etc.

*shrug* It is a pretty weak copout, but not as weak as what I see as stereotyping the kid as a typical ILE nerd king and throwing the rest out the door.

again, this is the same position I had back when you and the rest of the Classical Socionists were drawing social boundaries to justify theoretical adherence.

The thing is, the way you talk makes it seem like everything Jung says is directly relevant to Socionics, which it's not necessarily, as per the reasons we've outlined...but I guess it still boils down to subjectivity re: what is relevant and what isn't...etc...ad infinitum...

/suicide

[NewBorn STAR]

I voted Lie

[ashlesha]

my opinion isnt very strong but its where ive been sitting for awhile