Rationals (Judgers) xxxJ

[consentingadult]

I wonder, do rationals see themselves as having a kind of disadvantage?

From my perspective (perceiver), I tend to see them that way. If somebody calls me to go to a party, I stand up and go. But judgers can't do this, they need to know it in advance, so they can prepare for it. They are also easely stressed and can't change their mind quickly.

This is how I see many rationals as well. I used to have an LSE friend who I used to call on Friday evenings asking "What are you doing tonite?", he'd typically answer "Uhhh, nothing, just watching TV". So I would ask him if he wanted to join going somewhere, and he never ever accepted. If, however, I would ask him 3 weeks ahead, it would pretty much always be a yes.

Same thing with my current rational friends, acquitances and even family members. You always have to file a request in three-fold five weeks ahead if you want to meet with them. Consequence: I only meet them very occasionally. Fortunately, there are also irrationals in my network!

[Bardia]

I don't have a problem with spontaneous plans. Someone can call me up when I'm not busy and say lets go do this, meet in 10 minutes and I'll be good if I'm not doing anything. The problem is if I already have plans I will most likely go with whatever I have planned unless the new thing is a rare opportunity such as someone calling me up saying they have an extra ticket to a concert of a band I really like or something like that. Also, it's really frustrating when people cancel plans, change plans to something I don't want to do, or are consistently an hour late late. Those are the kind of things that annoy me.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Guys, this isn't Myers-Briggs.

[Galen]

I always interrupt the things I'm doing in order to do completely different things. If you aren't like me then you're just a weird person and I don't want anything to do with you. True fact.

[The Ineffable]

I always interrupt the things I'm doing in order to do completely different things. If you aren't like me then you're just a weird person and I don't want anything to do with you. True fact.

Do you sometimes cancel plans too, like the bad examples of Bardia, cracka, etc?

[Absurd]

Unless I, actually, planned something already knowing it will benefit me in some way or another, I don't sway off the course, saying I'm busy.

As to the spontaneous part, I am spontaneous, I take risks, but what I've said above still stands.

[Galen]

I always interrupt the things I'm doing in order to do completely different things. If you aren't like me then you're just a weird person and I don't want anything to do with you. True fact.

Do you sometimes cancel plans too, like the bad examples of Bardia, cracka, etc?

I have broken every plan I have ever made.

[Brilliand]

Irrespective of Judging/Perceiving, the disadvantage of being spontaneous is being unable to pack a series of activities efficiently into a span of time. Spontaneity naturally results in task switching at less-than-optimal times, which causes wastage. In that particular distinction, I'm more the spontaneous sort most of the time IRL, though I tend to play computer games in an inflexible, high-efficiency manner.

[cracka]

I don't have a problem with spontaneous plans. Someone can call me up when I'm not busy and say lets go do this, meet in 10 minutes and I'll be good if I'm not doing anything. The problem is if I already have plans I will most likely go with whatever I have planned unless the new thing is a rare opportunity such as someone calling me up saying they have an extra ticket to a concert of a band I really like or something like that. Also, it's really frustrating when people cancel plans, change plans to something I don't want to do, or are consistently an hour late late. Those are the kind of things that annoy me.

I concur with everything said in this post. The easiest way to not be friends with me is to cancel on me or be late most of the time. I usually will give someone a chance or two but after that I won't go out of my way to hang out with someone. If this makes anyone feel that I'm at a disadvantage in life, oh well...lol.

[FDG]

I don't have a problem with spontaneous plans. Someone can call me up when I'm not busy and say lets go do this, meet in 10 minutes and I'll be good if I'm not doing anything. The problem is if I already have plans I will most likely go with whatever I have planned unless the new thing is a rare opportunity such as someone calling me up saying they have an extra ticket to a concert of a band I really like or something like that. Also, it's really frustrating when people cancel plans, change plans to something I don't want to do, or are consistently an hour late late. Those are the kind of things that annoy me.

Yeah, same.

[Begoner]

This is how I see many rationals as well. I used to have an LSE friend who I used to call on Friday evenings asking "What are you doing tonite?", he'd typically answer "Uhhh, nothing, just watching TV". So I would ask him if he wanted to join going somewhere, and he never ever accepted. If, however, I would ask him 3 weeks ahead, it would pretty much always be a yes.

I probably act this way, too. If I've settled down comfortably, made some popcorn, and started watching a good movie, I'd be loathe to interrupt what I'm currently doing. On the other hand, if I weren't doing something particularly engaging, I would be very open to suggestions of doing something else. It's not so much that I need to prepare for something, but that I don't want to interrupt an activity in midstream. Consequently, 2 hours' notice is almost always plenty, and even no notice at all is fine in some cases.

Edit: obviously, I can interrupt an activity under certain circumstances. If the house is burning down, I don't need three weeks' notice to evacuate: I'll put down whatever I'm doing and leave, like any sane person.

[DirectorAbbie]

Irrationals are at a disadvantage because they're not as dependable.

[consentingadult]

Irrationals are at a disadvantage because they're not as dependable.

I agree they are not as dependable, but why is it a disadvantage in your opinion?

[Bardia]

Irrationals are at a disadvantage because they're not as dependable.

I agree they are not as dependable, but why is it a disadvantage in your opinion?

Idk about Abbie but if people are not dependable I will cease trying to hang out with them. Inconsistency signals a lack of interest imo.

When I have something planned I think I unconsciously prepare for it. So when plans are canceled it is a disappointment or when asked to do something I wasn't expecting I may not feel like doing it because I wasn't storing energy or thinking about it.

[DirectorAbbie]

When I have something planned I think I unconsciously prepare for it. So when plans are canceled it is a disappointment or when asked to do something I wasn't expecting I may not feel like doing it because I wasn't storing energy or thinking about it.

[717495]

My Ti-ENTp brother often tells me, stop thinking ahead or plan it out so much, with good ideas. Just see what happens and go with it. If it's a boring idea or plan, then of course I'm not going to care. But I get disappointed if plans change, it feels like it drains energy just to rethink the course of things, or have to reprepare for a sudden change. A little bit of planning only wastes a little bit of time, but pays off in the end.

But c'mon, if there's a cool party or something in a half hour and I have nothing else going on/in the mood, of course I'm going to go.

[consentingadult]

I agree they are not as dependable, but why is it a disadvantage in your opinion?

Idk about Abbie but if people are not dependable I will cease trying to hang out with them. Inconsistency signals a lack of interest imo.

When I have something planned I think I unconsciously prepare for it. So when plans are canceled it is a disappointment or when asked to do something I wasn't expecting I may not feel like doing it because I wasn't storing energy or thinking about it.

IMHO, this still doesn't explain why it is a disadvantage to the irrationals themselves. Wouldn't they be better off in the first place by mingling with other irrationals instead?

Speaking as a student of Sociology, I know there are societies where rationality (in the Socionics sense) is more or less the social norm, and irrationals are at a disadvantage in some respects (e.g. economically). But there are also societies or social groups that could be characterized by by an emphasis on irrational (in the Socionics sense) social norms, where unpredictability is not an issue, and within these groups, rationals are at a disadvantage.

Or isn't this what you mean?

[Trevor]

I wonder which type is evolutionary older. Rationals? Irrationals? Neither?

[The Ineffable]

I've zero punctuality, often forget plans or don't make them in the 1st place, and generally make major decisions upon impulsive whims.

Yeah, since you type yourself LIE it means you never read the LIE and SEE descriptions. Can you tell where ENTj contrasts with ESFp? (no need to explain now, just yes or no)

I have broken every plan I have ever made.

Smart move. Respect.

[ashlesha]

When I have something planned I think I unconsciously prepare for it. So when plans are canceled it is a disappointment or when asked to do something I wasn't expecting I may not feel like doing it because I wasn't storing energy or thinking about it.

i was skimming through the thread and trying to think of how to explain my attitude toward plans and then i saw this which i can relate to a lot.

i'm not a planner but i tend to see things going a certain way - not necessarily like a goal or anything, but just what i expect to happen, i guess. as opposed to just seeing everything up in the air, which is a perspective i have a hard time imagining.

i have no problem doing things at the last minute on principle, but i can feel blindsided by things - like if i'm sitting around in sweatpants and expecting to spend the day reading and somebody invites me out, it takes some mental/mood adjusting and that adjusting in and of itself might take more energy than i feel like expending. or i might get excited and really want to go. lol. depends on anything, i guess.

[golden]

When I have something planned I think I unconsciously prepare for it. So when plans are canceled it is a disappointment or when asked to do something I wasn't expecting I may not feel like doing it because I wasn't storing energy or thinking about it.

i was skimming through the thread and trying to think of how to explain my attitude toward plans and then i saw this which i can relate to a lot.

i'm not a planner but i tend to see things going a certain way - not necessarily like a goal or anything, but just what i expect to happen, i guess. as opposed to just seeing everything up in the air, which is a perspective i have a hard time imagining.

i have no problem doing things at the last minute on principle, but i can feel blindsided by things - like if i'm sitting around in sweatpants and expecting to spend the day reading and somebody invites me out, it takes some mental/mood adjusting and that adjusting in and of itself might take more energy than i feel like expending. or i might get excited and really want to go. lol. depends on anything, i guess.

Kassie and Bardia expressed how I experience this. And whether I'm up for doing something spontaneous depends in part on whether I was imagining being spontaneous in advance, lol.

If I'm blindsided or pulled off course a lot, I get irritated or even exhausted.

[EyeSeeCold]

Irrationals are at a disadvantage because they're not as dependable.

Manage to oblige me and I'd go to the end of the world to fulfill a task.

[Jarno]

Irrationals are at a disadvantage because they're not as dependable.

yes I was interested in the opposite view too.

I guess being dependable is something that others like, but I myself don't find it a disadvantage. Actually you can depend more on me to say yes to a new sudden event than a rational, so I guess it also depends on what you call dependable.

[pianosinger]

Irrationals are at a disadvantage because they're not as dependable.

Not necessarily true.

I am pretty good at keeping my schedule open much of the time. I can often be ready at an hour's notice to drop everything and help a friend, and I often do. How is that not dependable?

Disciplined, I am not. Dependable, I believe I am.