What's the reasoning here?

[The Ineffable]

This is why you collude with a dog to mind the goats, and to track them down if they stray.

Wrong, as usual.

1. There's no such thing as dog for goats AFAIK. You can't control goats with the help of dogs, they don't go the other direction but randomly. They also get into dense vegetation or climb abrupt terrain where dogs can't surround them. I took care of goats at my grandma when I was little and I can tell that your metaphor is ignorant.
2. A guard dog does the opposite job than a shpeherd dog. Another misplaced figure of speech.

[Absurd]

2. A guard dog does the opposite job than a shpeherd dog. Another misplaced figure of speech.

You actually use guardian dogs for that. Herding dogs have a habit of chasing goats, in other words, you don't leave herding dogs with goats unattended.

[The Ineffable]

You actually use guardian dogs for that. Herding dogs have a habit of chasing goats, in other words, you don't leave herding dogs with goats unattended.

In other words I use forest dolphins to dig oranges out of the ground, yeah.

[Absurd]

In other words I use forest dolphins to dig oranges out of the ground, yeah.

Trained forest guardian dolphins with protective instincts:



Looks like a forest dolphin to me.

[EyeSeeCold]

pic related

[The Ineffable]

Looks like a forest dolphin to me.

I figured that out already.

[Korpsy Knievel]

1. There's no such thing as dog for goats AFAIK. You can't control goats with the help of dogs, they don't go the other direction but randomly. They also get into dense vegetation or climb abrupt terrain where dogs can't surround them.

AFAIK being the important part, as we'll now demonstrate.

Friends I lived with kept a very talkative pair of pygmy goats on a rustic property occasionally visited by raccoons, bears, coyotes, and fishers. The goats would always make commentary when those predators appeared. When they were let out of their pen to mow the lawn my dog would also busy herself by noisily chasing them over woodpiles and through brambles, so I'm quite accustomed to hearing the full range of their bleatings.

My shepherd/lab mutt stayed on the goats' tails whenever they were loose and had no difficulty following them anywhere in the forest. She's quite agile and loves to walk the length of fallen trees like a balance beam, or scramble pell-mell over irregular, brush-strewn terrain (I watch with concern for eye or facial injury whenever she unhesitatingly throws herself into dense undergrowth in pursuit of varmints or for the pure joy of crashing through brambles; the dog's reckless disregard for this sort of personal danger is why her nicknames include Crash Bandicoot and Smash'n'Crash). She never allowed the goats to wander very far, obstructing their movements and barking to force them back to where they belonged (and it was quite funny to watch her evade their attempted headbutts when they felt she was being too bossy; she seemed perplexed that they'd try such an alien-to-canines maneuver). Even if the goats had split up and escaped it'd have been nothing for the dog to track either of them down. Her olfactory powers are amazingly sensitive. For instance, I can throw a random stick into a thicket and she'll return with the correct piece of wood, presumably sniffing it out by identifying the odor left on it from the sweat or oils on my hand. In any event, the dog is quite obviously hardwired to herd beasts like those two goats because she takes to the task unbidden and with great enthusiasm. Though we've yet to see her reaction to sheep she has tried similar tactics with horses and cattle, albeit with less success; her behavior toward cats, squirrels, rabbits, etc. is decidedly predatory and not at all disposed toward herding or benevolent supervision.

I took care of goats at my grandma when I was little and I can tell that your metaphor is ignorant.

I can tell that you're prone to chronic self deceit via overconfidence in your presumptions. You're correct, however, in asserting that goats aren't the best lawnmowers.

2. A guard dog does the opposite job than a shpeherd dog. Another misplaced figure of speech.

Show me where I said guard dog. If you'd actually read my statement instead of impressionistically reacting to it, or asked me the basis for making it, you wouldn't be showing your ass like this again. Ne base, ho ho.

Anyhow, yes, the main concerns that people have with raw milk are that it might be contaminated, and also that some of its proponents are making fantastically new-agey claims about its wondrous health effects.

[The Ineffable]

Show me where I said guard dog. If you'd actually read my statement instead of impressionistically reacting to it, or asked me the basis for making it, you wouldn't be showing your ass like this again. Ne base, ho ho.

Why show you where you said guard dog? You didn't said that, I said. You didn't get it anyway, so forget about it.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Why show you where you said guard dog? You didn't said that, I said.

Gold star for you, you're correct. But one wonders why you'd produce objections to points that nobody made.

You didn't get it anyway, so forget about it.

Prove it.

[The Ineffable]

Prove it.

I don't want to. I think any intelligent person can understand what I meant and why your comparison of my means to a shepherd dog instead of a guard dog is inept.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I don't want to. I think any intelligent person can understand what I meant and why your comparison of my means to a shepherd dog instead of a guard dog is inept.

my dog = lab + shep

Courtesy of wikipedia:

• The Labrador Retriever is one of several kinds of retriever, a type of gun dog. A breed characteristic is webbed paws for swimming, useful for the breed's original purpose of retrieving fishing nets.
• As part of the Herding Group, the German Shepherd is a working dog developed originally for herding and guarding sheep.

Oh, so there's where the guard dog comes in. And look, shepherds are capable of both herding and guarding. Imagine how much more fun my dog would have had herding those goats if they'd have ventured into the lake (she loves chasing ducks, beavers, and muskrats in the water, too).

Here's another source, STARTING GERMAN SHEPHERD DOGS HERDING OTHER LIVESTOCK:

Debbie Burnette, who has Cardigan Welsh Corgis, highly recommends goats for starting dogs. When I questioned this because their groups break apart very easily. She responded that yes they break apart, but they don’t take off. So, the dog can easily put them back together again. A good alternative when there are no appropriate sheep available. Also, although sheep are known for grouping much better than goats, so many sheep we see today, actually group worse than goats. In some areas, it seems like there are not heavy wooly sheep available to work. No one wants to sheer. Therefore, only light haired sheep which are bad for starting GSDs on are available. However, haired goats can be heavy and therefore are a much better choice for GSDs than haired sheep. If all you have is light sheep in your area, seek out goats.

Cow dog folks often start dogs on goats and then progress to cattle. They find this produces a much better on dog then starting on sheep. Goats behave much more like cattle than they do sheep and aren’t as intimidating for a starting dog as are cattle. After they have a handle on the dog and it has gained in confidence, then they move on to cows.

Hmmm...

About a month ago my oldest dog Ginger and I went to a four hour training and herding instinct class that was put on by the local sheep herding group. Can I just tell you right now? Sheep herding is HARD. Even when the sheep are goats. I literally didn't understand anything in the 2 hours of inside class time, other than our instructor loved border collies, regular collies, even Corgis, but not German shepherds. Which was kind of dumb because half of their class consisted of German shepherds and their people. This woman literally told us the many different ways German shepherds were unsuitable herding dogs. Also? I don't think she spoke english. I've never been more confused about a lesson in my entire life. I had to keep asking people who had done this before "what the heck does that mean?" I'm sure that didn't get old. It really made no sense to me.

We practiced with a titled border collie and I was totally "Yay"ed by the instructor. But I was just walking back and forth, because that much I understood of the "12 and 6". It seems, though, that regardless of what the instructor lady said earlier, German shepherds are pretty good herders as evidenced by my dog's appearance on their mass email about the class. Ginger was one of three dogs on the cover. Isn't she pretty? (and having SO much fun!!!)

One more:


So, Effie, what didn't I get and why should I forget it?

[nanashi]

she was dualized in the setting, Maritsa, so her Ni inertia was less in effect than usual. She was more 'alive' and proactive. She was openmindedly objective in the conversation, pointing out her alleged knowledge of some cases in which non-pasteurization didn't kill people. And she heard the Fi call of your cousin trying to protect you from drinking milk which hasn't been pasteurized (pasteurizing's goal is stated here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization), and she started analyzing your desire for the potentially dangerous thing. And, thinking it might be health and a desire for change from something you found negative about milk from cows, she decided to GIVE YOU THE ACTUAL EXPERIENCE of a potentially less-risky alternative.


* disclaimer:
I don't know enough about the science of goat milk (nor the risks of any of the pasteurize/unpasteurized stuff) to give advice. Don't kill yourselves.

[The Ineffable]

So, Effie, what didn't I get and why should I forget it?

Man, take it easy, we were talking about the metaphors. I acknowledged for two times already that it is possible to exist cases when goats can be driven by dogs. Ok I get it, alright? There are dogs of shepherd breeds and dogs of guarding breeds that can't do either, that's not the point, when we make metaphors we're assuming the general case. You can't compare me - or whoever you think I conspire with - to a shepherd dog simply because that's not applicable, but you can compare us to guard dogs, that was the point you missed.

[Slacker]

As far as fantastic claims, yeah I have friends like that, who think it will cure cancer or whatever, and they also think pasteurized milk is poison. Odd. I d believe that pasteurization kills probiotics that could be useful, but I'm more about the grass-fed local thing than anything else.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I d believe that pasteurization kills probiotics that could be useful

Nutritional changes wrought by cooking are much more sensible and likely-seeming to me, too, since that tends to be the general case.

but I'm more about the grass-fed local thing than anything else.

While living in the boonies where said dog herded said goats, I bought milk and ice cream from a local dairy when possible, though they did pasteurize. It is quite nice to know the people and the methods that produce one's food.