well...i'm not gonna take credit for a joke i didn't make up
well...i'm not gonna take credit for a joke i didn't make up
just forget what i said...it was a stupid joke and i'm sorry
Introversion/extroversion isn't a hard and fast dichotomy in socionics...it's just sort of a tendency that goes along with having subjective/objective IMs. And Fi types are generally more subdued than Fe types anyway.Originally Posted by sar
Plus, even the definition of social intro/extroversion that MBTI uses has little to do with being outgoing or quiet or friendly or reserved and everything to do with whether a person gains energy from social interaction or loses it (something that is nearly impossible to tell if you don't actually know a person).
Stan is not my real name.
hmm... interesting points
Ni is the role function of Si bases, so the person can switch off and look like they are Ni, by momentarily using it, which is what he does in this case, when he talks about what he did that night. You gotta look at the big picture when typing people.
I'm suggesting Ne to you so that tells me that you have weak Ne. The question is will you pick up on my suggestion (which would indicate you being Ne activation type). HUMMMMM .....Socionics is interesting stuff.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 05-29-2011 at 05:21 AM.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Don't apologize. It was funny. At least I laughed.just forget what i said...it was a stupid joke and i'm sorry
lol thanks Sumer1an...Maritsa33, you are just...the mother of all whores.
What are you doing?
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
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Fidei Defensor
yeah...that'll probably get me banned...but it's all good. it's been fun. I was angry...couldn't help it...someone needed to say it...for what it's worth i feel bad...i apologize maritsa...
and it's recently occured to me i misunderstood what you were saying...yep...i'm fucking stupid... again, sorry...
Last edited by sar; 05-29-2011 at 07:14 AM.
I have no need to apologize to you. I do realize that I have a tendency to have an air of aristocracy about me (this is associated with me being a Delta member) and sound "important" when I speak about Socionics and I do value my knowledge very highly which also makes me sound condescending to Fe valuers. You, however, need to realize this about me as well. That will help smooth over our misunderstandings and help us communicate better.
And, furthermore, I do like Te, which is stating things as though they were a matter of fact and facts are indisputable in my dual pairing, which also makes me sound righteous and condescending. And, which you have to again realize about me.
I realize a lot of things about you and because I do that doesn't mean I will reject from speaking with you. I am Fi, I do strive to closer relations, harmony, and understanding as well as evolution.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
you don't sound condescending to us, you sound idiotic.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" isand not
accept it!!! because you might sound the same way to me, but you don't see me react to you like you react to me
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Yes the only reason Maritsa sounds condescending is she is a Delta - so she will always have this excuse, and that is an important thing, for her and for all of us to understand and accept. I know for fact that no Fi's on this board are offended by her knowing everything about all of it that there is. If you don't like how she talks to you it is your problem. Adjust your attitud!
Last edited by Snorkle; 05-29-2011 at 07:33 AM.
"This is a very hostile environment." --No Longer a Dating Site
I can back up my claims with traceable correlations, you are just a heap of fallacious bullshit.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
Haha.
I think you have Se but weak Si, that makes you LSE.
The right thing as far I can tell.
Yup.
You think I'm Beta too, right? What type do you have in mind?
Not EII that's a given. Lay off the crack pipe and I'm willing to reconsider if you know what I mean.
The thing is I hate these Delta NF complaining, misrepresenting and projecting on *this forum*. I have not problem IRL with Delta NFs, we discuss trivia and gossip, but where I want to discuss natural/formal/logical fields (in opposition to humanist) I'm sick of their shit - of course, not all are like that, but pretty many (for instance Lobo is EII but can use that brain). I find their activity an intrusion at least. This paparazzi pop-science parroting psychanalysis gibberish has no place in my interests, and this mobbish way they aggressively try to impose their fallacious judgments onto others turns them into odious maggots, all I wish is wash them off.
I like to mock the insecurities which make them act, hence my decorations. Following their intellectual simplicity, they actually are predictable and one can easily tell their reasoning and mental level, let them scream until they explode, especially Microbrain (also known as laghlagh).
I'm really sorry to hear that. What can I do to make you feel better ? Forcibly ram a lightning conductor up your arse and wait for the storm ?
That's a good thing as far I am concerned.they actually are predictable and one can easily tell their reasoning
Let me do the exploding, Hans.let them scream until they explode, especially Microbrain (also known as laghlagh).
You're the very man, Max.
Well, one might think so...
However...speaking of supervisors-- when I first started working at my current job, there was this coworker that i thought was very quirky, but extremely "sweet". I started out not totally trusting her based on her ultra-sweetness, as well as sort of her nosiness into EVERYTHING i was doing (including what I talked about at my meetings with my boss). but over months we talked a lot about random things, and we seemed to have a lot in common--we're both twins, sort of had similar situations growing up, some common attitudes towards life. And I started seeing her as an albeit "quirky" friend, started letting my guard down (not completely though).
At one point around that time I showed Ashton a group photo of my colleagues (to VI a different person), and even though the photo wasn't the most conducive to typing, he did note that this particular coworker looked LII. I was like really?? So that's how supervision is? it's not so bad...
Fast forward maybe another 4 months... the LII and I continued being friendly, and the LII even excitedly volunteered to help me get started with some new project and teach me the techniques (she is about 20 years older than me and has a lot more experience). I was excited too (at first) that we could work together on something. When we started working closely, the first thing i noticed was that she would never answer the questions that I was asking, instead she would answer a different question that she "thought" i was asking. That led to probably 5 more questions from my end so that I could get the answer to my actual question. She was also often too vague for my comfort as to advising me what the best way to do a particular thing would be--like if i ask "If we use this would that be better?" instead of being like "Yes because..." or "no because..." she would be like "whatever you like..." or "i dont know... you can try it if you want..." when i was looking for guru guidance from someone that's supposed to be an expert on this.It was almost like she was taking my question subliminally as a sign that i didn't want to do it her way. So in these cases I started becoming irritated with her and would lose my patience a bit and go into "deep voice" mode.
Oh also i thought it was a little crazy of her that whenever i would ask a question (even if it's a tiny little question about where something is located or a yes/no question), she would DROP everything she was doing, come over to where i am, i would finally get an answer and she would CONTINUE babysitting me for like half an hour, just making conversation about random things or just making sure i was ok doing everything else. It would sort of make me chuckle inside, but hey if she wants to come keep me company while i work that's fine...
Regardless we still continued to be friends--i just viewed her as the quirky sort of type that jumps to conclusions and doesn't answer questions straight and i figured it was probably the Te vs Ti mismatch. But still, I wasn't finding socionic supervision THAT bad.
After about 2 months of working CLOSELY together like this... Everything blew up in my face. I found out she'd been spreading vicious false rumors about me. So I made us sit down and talk it out. Turns out the extreme "sweetness" was indeed totally fake. She'd been extremely resentful inside about having to answer so many questions and spend so much time helping me, and apparently had been giving me some subliminal "hints" about bothering her less (that i was supposed to somehow mind-read). Turned out she was getting in trouble for not being productive with her own projects. But heck, she was always initiating nonwork-related conversation with me, which I confirmed when I stopped talking to her as much (after i heard of the rumors)--to which she reacted by becoming offended!!And she would literally talk for HOURS with me, the difference being that I can talk and work at the same time, AND I'm still very productive even if i do spend an hour just talking. I told her that if she has so much work to do, she also doesn't need to come babysit me for like an hour whenever i ask a simple question--i actually like working independently.
Anyway, this supervision relationship actually did play out as socionically predicted, and without any preconceived forcing of the relationship to fit socionic terms. I actually had no idea supervision could get this bad. It took a year to manifest, and perhaps may have been longer if we had not had the opportunity to (like socionics says) work CLOSELY together on a project.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
According to my experience, socionics works fine, exactly as it is described in type descriptions and relationship descriptions.
Just find it out and you'll notice it too.
Yet there is always the possibility that you are too stupid to understand it, like some people on this forum are, and that instead of admitting your stupidity you blame it on socionics. Sure that is possible.
wow, this is the meanest post i've ever see you make Ineffable.The thing is I hate these Delta NF complaining, misrepresenting and projecting on *this forum*. I have not problem IRL with Delta NFs, we discuss trivia and gossip, but where I want to discuss natural/formal/logical fields (in opposition to humanist) I'm sick of their shit - of course, not all are like that, but pretty many (for instance Lobo is EII but can use that brain). I find their activity an intrusion at least. This paparazzi pop-science parroting psychanalysis gibberish has no place in my interests, and this mobbish way they aggressively try to impose their fallacious judgments onto others turns them into odious maggots, all I wish is wash them off.
I like to mock the insecurities which make them act, hence my decorations
The discrepancies between your thinking and delta NF thinking, however, might actually represent our better insight into people and relationship that you lack, and that we can't neceesarily explain enough to fit into your Ti framework, because people and relationships just dont always work that way. Thus, delta NF conceptions of socionics might actually be more accurate than your own. Have you considered that possibility?
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
well I agree with you but not in such black/white terms.
If intertype relationships aren't manifesting as socionics predicts it could be one or more of a few factors:
a) you have the people mistyped
b) you dont quite have a handle on what the intertype relationship description really manifests as
c) the people involved have not gotten close enough
d) the people are keeping their personal feelings about each other hidden
e) There might be a non-socionic factor involved (e.g. if people hate each other because of some disagreement over political ideology, etc).
coming to an understanding of socionics doesn't have to mean the person is "stupid", but rather just hasn't studied socionics enough, or has misconceptions about what the terms mean or manifest as (the vague descriptions in machine-translated russian dont help matters), or just hasn't had enough real world experiences with socionically-identifiable intertype relations. Heck I've experience duality, supervision, mirror, identity, superego, and conflict but at the moment I'm not sure how to quite identify quasi-identity vs benefit. I'm not sure I could tell when I'm supervising someone. I can identify some SEEs i think, but am still not quite sure what a "business partner" intertype is actually supposed to be like, etc. Learning socionics is truly a process, and i think also HOW you go about learning socionics is somewhat type-related.
Last edited by Suz; 05-29-2011 at 01:23 PM.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I would like to add:
f) People can be in a certain period in their life, often at a young age, when they are not sure of who they really are and looking for strong/cool role models etc. I know of one example when conflictors became almost best friends, but now later when they are more mature they discovered that they are incompatible and they don't see each other anymore.
YES! thank you!
oh and my list is not exhaustive, please everyone keep adding! those are just the possibilities I could think of right then and there (and what i've done in the past myself and thus came to those realizations).
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
In fact such reasoning is part of the problem. IMO if we have reasonable arguments we talk, otherwise we shut up, allegations, undercurrent and personal interpretations are inappropriate, precisely because we're not discussing ethics, art or politics.
The point you miss is that my answer addresses Absurd's suggestion that I'd be Beta, based on these conflicts I had with Delta NFs, not who's more knowledgeable in Socionics. Your rambling about who understands Socionics better has nothing to do with what I said, providing further evidence in support of my argument. Misrepresentation is a conscious act, perhaps not type-related, it may be just a coincidence that Delta NFs we know misrepresent others to a larger extent, though I think we can draw a correlation.
Your original statement is emotionally loaded. Socionics is a theory which means there is evidence to support or disprove the theory. When two people who would be identified as duals have a successful and fulfilling relationship as lovers, friends or buisness partners that is in support of the theory. The opposite outcome of a dual relationship disproves the theory. Simply put: how do the facts add up? All I'm suggesting is apply the theory appropriately and that is case by case instead of a sweeping all or nothing generalization (i.e. what if Socioics is BS)
Jung - the father of psychological types - read Niteszhe too and as a medical practioner he noticed psychological patterns in Nietzsche's writtings that would suggest to not completely entrust in the word of Nietzsche. Of Jung's commentary one comment stood out: Nietzsche was extremely egotistical. Another was: his writings were devoid of all facts. Jung was a genuwine psychologist and Nietzsche was a self-proclaimed psychologist who considered himself better than a real psyschologist.
As a lasting point: I recently realised duality at work. I was having a conversation with an ENTP-ISFP dual pair. The ENTP was giving me advice that was basically all about trying out different places to have sex. Bascially as the conversation would progress I noticed there is a real harmony between them. Not in terms of what he says and what she says but their interaction was in harmony. They disagreed and she would be offended by his lack of etiquette but even still her actions seemed in proportion to his. The energy between them seemed so natural and even. There was no sense of dominance and submission whatsoever. Common sense would say they seem like an odd couple because he is so outlandish and she is classy but when you sense their energy and the way they both act with each other - that sense of complete consciousness comes across. They are a perfect couple because they are perfect for each other. It hit me. They have a yin and yang relationship but they hardly ever do the lovey dovey mushy "I'll love you forever and ever" b.s.
Conflict with whomever you want apart from two persons.
Absurd, i do have weak si...good catch. but i'm not LSE...btw, SWEET FREAKING PICTURE! lol
Then it doesn't work. We move on in life.
Good thing I was serious.
Thanks.btw, SWEET FREAKING PICTURE! lol
yikes. sorry about thathaven't quite gotten the hang of the sense of humor around here
People who feel the need to tell you that they have an excellent sense of humor are telling you that they have no sense of humor, so I'm not going to do that.
Ineffable there is a woman in my RL I want you to have meet. when she refuse logic and force helpy pop caring on you, will you tell her to die??? please
"This is a very hostile environment." --No Longer a Dating Site
ehh...nietzsche>jung imho, simply because philosophy is greater than psychology to me...it's the "base" of everything we know...including politics, mathematics, psychology, sociology, art etc. psychology highlights our limitations as human beings while philosophy does the same and says "fuck it" and attempts to transcend them.
What if socionics is b.s.?
I fixed your typo. Humans aren't as omniscient
as we'd like to think. With a limited perspective,
it's difficult for anything to be "right" or "true".
Especially with such a high level of innate
self-interest.
smartest post yet.
there are people who can interface with reality and people who can't.
"Humans aren't as omniscient
as we'd like to think. With a limited perspective,
it's difficult for anything to be "right" or "true".
Especially with such a high level of innate
self-interest. "
smartest post yet.
lol..."reality"...we know nothing of this sort. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspectivism
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