I'd agree on typing her as Gamma SF.Originally Posted by Der
But I'd say she is rather ESI-Se.
Mila Kunis (SEE).
Tecumseh, LIE:
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide. Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none.
When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision.When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home."
No opinion on type for Tecumseh, but that's a great quote. Words to live by. I always salute strangers no matter where.
Hermione Granger (ESI) from Harry Potter.
Gen_James_N_Mattis.jpeg
James N. "Mad Dog" Mattis, LIE
From Wikipedia:
"Mattis is a life-long bachelor,[63] who has never been married and has no children.[1] He is nicknamed "The Warrior Monk" because of his bachelor life and lifelong devotion to the study of war.[64] He is known for the intellectual rigor he instills in his Marines, risk-management, and requiring his Marines to be well read regarding the culture and history in regions of the world where they are deployed. Before deploying to Iraq, Mattis had his Marines undergo cultural sensitivity training.[24]"
Nelly Furtado is what comes to my mind, when, I think of ESI/ISFj woman.
existentialistcat ESI so much of @Adam Strange's dual
@yeves, thank you so much for sharing that video.
One reason I'm on this forum is to find out more about a wide variety of people (plus, I like the social interactions and honesty), and seeing examples of my duals is a very important part of that for me. There were no duals in my immediate or extended family, and so I had no experience with them. I was surrounded by Thinking types, and as a result, Feeling types might as well have been from another planet. They were unfamiliar, and therefore strange and weird and unvalued.
I think I have mentioned here that when I first encountered the idea of duality and descriptions of MBTI ISFP's (Socionics ISFj's), I thought they looked like brainless (1D Te) strippers (3D Se). This is a sad result of my innate prejudices, born of ignorance. My experience with ESI's here on the forum and in real life has completely changed my thinking on this. In fact, I have come to realize that ESI's are by far the easiest type for me to get along with from an emotional standpoint. Even when we are arguing, I still feel close to them.
Still, there remains a lingering doubt that I would actually want to date an ESI, and I've once again traced this back to my prejudices. ESI's don't look smart, at least, not in the same manner that I'm used to seeing higher-dimensional Thinking types look smart. I mean, I've looked pretty closely, and I do think that ESI's are smart. I see constant evidence for it. They connect the dots. They see things that I don't. They manage their lives without excursions to jail (which is more than I can say). But they are coming from such a distant place that it is hard to see why we should, or could, join forces to work together.
Prejudices are really hard to overcome, but it has been proven that the best antidote for prejudice is mutual exposure. I need to have some ESI's forced-bussed into my neighborhood. The above video is one way to do that.
@yeves, I've been watching some of existentialistcat's other videos, and I agree that she probably is ESI. I see some LII, some SEE, but mostly ESI. She actually has some micro-expressions that resemble those of an ESI whom I got along really well with, although existentialistcat's face is not my ideal. The weirdest thing is that her IQ is 146 (mine is almost exactly the same) and she still gives me an initial impression of a ditz.This has got to be my faulty association of competency in ethics with lack of rationality, and I need to fix this in order to get my head straight and my life on the sunny side of the street.
More exposure should do it.
Many thanks, again, @yeves, for posting this.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-23-2016 at 01:55 PM.
Merriweather Lewis (ESI) and William Clark (Te-LIE)
Lewis was, in other words, a rather solitary individual, devoted to his family and a few friends, a man with a gift for leadership, who could maintain discipline and get loyal and willing service from his men in the wilderness, but not a man who got along well with ordinary people under ordinary conditions. In the popular jargon of our day, Merriweather Lewis was an "introvert." He was also a rather moody individual.Unlike Lewis, however, Clark was neither moody nor solitary. He was a hearty, genial, socially inclined individual - an extrovert. Given their common interests, long acquaintance, hearty friendship, and similar enthusiasms, they complimented each other in an almost ideal way.
It is a remarkable fact that there is no record of the slightest quarrel between the two, not even under the terrible strain and hardship of wilderness travel, which makes ordinary men's tempers snap like fiddlestrings. Their only known differences relate, first, to the palatability of dog meat, which Lewis rather liked and Clark detested, and, second, to the necessity of salt, which Lewis craved and Clark thought a matter of "mere indifference". It is more than a matter of form when they refer - as both men do - to each other as "my friend, Captain Lewis," or "my friend, William Clark." Even as an old man - so testified a young niece living in his household - Clark could never refer to Lewis's death without tears in his eyes.Clark, the both men of course were military men, Lewis also, Clark was the older of the two. Clark was the the man who had the practicality always to be able to to find a solution, whatever the problem was. I have a sense that in a way, he was he was the the rod in the spine of of Lewis. I don’t mean to say that Lewis was weak because clearly he wasn’t. But it was Clark’s force of personality, his capacity to deal with with the men, all of whom were were not formally educated. That gave Lewis his discipline and his intelligence the the force, the power to make it, make it go, to make it active.In temperament Lewis and Clark were opposites. Lewis was introverted, melancholic, and moody; Clark, extroverted, even-tempered and gregarious. The better educated and more refined Lewis, who possessed a philosophical, romantic and speculative mind, was at home with abstract ideas; Clark, of a pragmatic mold, was more of a practical man of action. Each supplied vital qualities which balanced their partnership.
Their relationship ranks high in the realm of notable human associations. It was a rare example of two men of noble heart and conscience sharing responsibilities for the conduct of a dangerous enterprise without ever losing each other's respect or loyalty. Despite frequent stress, hardships, and other conditions that could easily have bred jealousy, mistrust or contempt, they proved to be self-effacing brothers in command and leadership. During their long journey, there is not a single trace of a serious quarrel or dispute between them.
This is actually a great example of ESI-LIE duality, because:Merriweather Lewis (ESI) and William Clark (Te-LIE)
It's about Time.
It's about Space.
It's about Two Men
In the Strangest Place.
No, seriously, these guys were pretty much opposites, but they came together under dangerous circumstances to explore new lands and identify new resources for the American government. This is the standard forge of ESI-LIE duality, where the two duals have to rely on each other to accomplish some task which is mutually beneficial, and both duals consider it to be worthwhile.
I actually have worked with four ESI's (three males, one female) on mutually agreed-upon goals (work projects or life goals), and I have to say, we never seriously argued with each other, no matter how difficult things got. There were lots of differences of opinion (especially with one guy), but they never rose to the point of endangering our friendship in the slightest.
In case these descriptions seem too vague, a few excerpts from their journals that I found telling:Merriweather Lewis (ESI) and William Clark (Te-LIE)
Lewis
Being now confident that the Indians had taken it, I sent the Indian woman on, to request Captain Clark to halt the part and send back some of the men to my assistance, being determined either to make the Indians deliver the robe or burn their houses. They have vexed me in such a manner by such repeated acts of villainy that I am quite disposed to treat them with every severity.I told Camaehwait that I was sorry to find that they had put so little confidence in us, that I knew they were not acquainted with white men and therefore could forgive them. That among white men it was considered disgraceful to lie, or entrap an enemy by falsehood. I told him if they continued to think thus meanly of us, that they might rely on it that no white men would ever come to trade with them, or bring them arms and ammunition; and that, if the bulk of his nation still entertained this opinion, I still hoped there were some among them that were not afraid to die - that were men, and would go with me and convince themselves of the truth of what I had asserted; that there was a party of white men waiting my return, either at the forks of the Jefferson's River or a little below, coming on to that place in canoes loaded with provisions and merchandise."Typical Clark journals: less personal, mainly concerned with conveying the bare facts, evince a more convivial and even-tempered disposition, etc.While at dinner, an Indian fellow very impertinently threw a poor, half-starved puppy nearly into my plate by way of derision for our eating dogs,a nd laughed very heartily at his own impertinence. I was so provoked at his insolence that I caught the puppy and threw it with great violence at him and struck him in the breast and face, seized my tomahawk, and showed him by signs, if he repeated his insolence I would tomahawk him.
Examined the rapid below us more particularly. The danger appearing too great to hazard our canoes loaded, dispatched all the men who could not swim with loads to the end of the portage below. I also walked to the end of the portage with the carriers, where I delayed until every article was brought over, and the canoes arrived safe.Found 32 persons - men, women, and a few children - sitting promiscuously in the lodge, in the greatest agitation; some crying and wringing their hands, others hanging their heads. I gave my hand to them all, and made signs of my friendly disposition, and offered the men my pipe to smoke, and distributed a few small articles which I had in my pocket. These measures pacified those distressed people very much. I then sent one man into each lodge, and entered a second myself, the inhabitants of which I found more frightened than those in the first lodge. I distributed sundry small articles among them, and smoked with the men.We sent, by him, a talk to the nation, stating the cause of our hoisting the red flag under the white. If they were for peace, stay at home and do as we directed them. If they were for war, or were determined to stop us, we were ready to defend ourselves. We halted one hour and one-half on the S.S. and made a substitute of stones for an anchor, refreshed our men, and proceeded on about two miles higher up, and came to a very small sandbar in the middle of the river, and stayed all night. I am very unwell for want of sleep. Determined to sleep tonight if possible. The men cooked, and we rested well.
Last edited by Averroes; 01-01-2017 at 04:37 PM.
This is a stereotypical LIE (male) - ESI (female) mixed subtype for both famous couple from my area:
Alessandro Benetton (some famous entrepreneur) and Deborah Compagnoni (a former female alpine ski professional)
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
ENTp v ENTj conversation. Chad Crandall talks like @Adam Stranger's posts read.
The other guy is ILE. At time 0:18, look at the smile on his face. That is a characteristic ILE smile.
Yes, he comes off as very extroverted. Still seems very much LII. He has very deep moments where he disassembles and assembles very abstract stuff. New ideas and material no so much.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
ew not a fan of his methods...is this really LIE?
This guy very well could be an LIE e3. I know a lot of LIE's, including an LIE e3, and the guy in the video is a bit beyond every one of them in his hard sell, but he certainly has traits of LIE's and of e3's.
The LIE e3 whom I know is much, much more subdued and actually has a great sense of humor, but he's a lot older than this guy and probably better respected in his field and is very well-off, and these things tend to take the edges off. It is actually hard to get his attention (because he's focused on his own stuff) and he's never "in your face" about things. He does give spectacularly detailed and boring presentations, which bring in money from his clients, but his clients give him money because he gives them results rather than great presentations.
Incidentally, the clothes that the LIE e3 whom I know wears are casually expensive and subdued, not ESTj-like, like the clothes of the guy in the video. I mean, pocket handkerchiefs? WTF? And frankly, a green polka-dot tie tells you something about this guy.
"spectacularly detailed and boring" <3 LMAO
that could be LSE, too, from a LIE's perspective...
The whole thing is a bit painful to watch, the LIE E3 I know are a bit more authentic. Plus, that tie...
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
For illustrative purposes here is an extreme example of an Se + Fi person.
ESFp-Fi E6w7
Here are some things to note about this guy from the video:
- He talks ethics non-stop, not logics. It doesn’t seem logical at all, too "stupid", so F.
- How it sucked in a inter human way (Fi), not how it is bad for society (Ti).
- Ti would say, "it was really bad of us to do that because it gives the wrong message to people."
- This is what Rob Richards stated in the video and is Fi information, "it really made us look bad/made them disrespected."
- It’s the focus, he’s talking about how it feels and how things the feelings of it was, which is essentially Fi.
- Ethics focusing on the feeling of it: "It was just hilarious, it made sense."
- Logicals would FEEL that way too, however would not focus on it in an explanation in my opinion.
- "I don’t see them as human beings, I never will."<-----classification of a person according to value, so Fi.
- The Se in him is just so obvious I don't feel I need to go into it. The Se accentuates his Fi statements heavily. Gamma SFs can be pretty harsh.
Follow up story.
Elon Musk (LIE-Ni) with Leonardo DiCaprio (SEE-Fi), Activity relation.
This show is pretty Gamma SF.
It seems like several of those stylists and judges are ESI.
Aja Volkman (ESI 9w8) and Dan Reynolds (SLI 1w2?)
it's been raining gammas ...
Eva Green - ESI (-Se so/sp 4w5)
Simon Sinek - LIE (-Ni sx/sp 7w8)
Cal Newport - LIE (-Te? sp/so 1w2)
Sam Donaldson - SEE (8w9 sx/so?)
Last edited by silke; 03-16-2017 at 10:13 PM.
Thanks for the heads-up, @silke.
I find Eva Green very attractive. Not so much attractive as in "Let's jump into bed right now", but attractive as in "Let's spend lots of time together". She looks like my oldest and best friend, except my friend is male and has a 5 somewhere. You sure she's an e4?
She does seem like someone interesting to talk to. I'm pretty sure of 4w5 by now, and having seen a few interviews I'd even say she's even a bit stereotypical for a 4. What do you type your friend in socionics?
left to right: Fi-ESI - Ni-ILI - LIE
EIE-Ni, IEI-Ni and SLE-Se IMO.left to right: Fi-ESI - Ni-ILI - LIE
He's got Se-creative and IJ temperament. Beta NF doesn't fit. The other two I'm less sure about.
Seth Everman - Ni-ILI sx/sp
omg what is he <3
Gamma SX/SP, heart eyes alert!
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