He's dead. It was him.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/0...ells-pakistan/
He had a wife. He had 20 kids. They don't deny paternity.
Unless the US paid these people to play the roles. I guess that's possible
He's dead. It was him.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/0...ells-pakistan/
He had a wife. He had 20 kids. They don't deny paternity.
Unless the US paid these people to play the roles. I guess that's possible
lmfaoOriginally Posted by Ryu
PSH
Oh, right
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-security.html
The raid by elite US troops was kept secret from the government of Pakistan. Only a tight circle within the Obama Administration knew of the operation.
In December 2009, the government of Tajikistan warned the United States that efforts to catch bin Laden were being thwarted by corrupt Pakistani spies.
According to a US diplomatic dispatch, General Abdullo Sadulloevich Nazarov, a senior Tajik counterterrorism official, told the Americans that “many” inside Pakistan knew where bin Laden was.
The document stated: “In Pakistan, Osama Bin Laden wasn’t an invisible man, and many knew his whereabouts in North Waziristan, but whenever security forces attempted a raid on his hideouts, the enemy received warning of their approach from sources in the security forces.”
Intelligence gathered from detainees at Guantanamo Bay may also have made the Americans wary of sharing their operational plans with the Pakistani government.
One detainee, Saber Lal Melma, an Afghan whom the US described as a probable facilitator for al-Qaeda, allegedly worked with the ISID to help members flee Afghanistan after the American bombing began in October 2001.
His US military Guantanamo Bay detainee file, obtained by Wikileaks and seen by The Daily Telegraph, claims he allegedly passed the al-Qaeda Arabs to Pakistani security forces who then smuggled them across the border into Pakistan.
He was also overheard “bragging about a time when the ISID sent a military unit into Afghanistan, posing as civilians to fight along side the Taliban against US forces”.
He also allegedly detailed “ISID's protection of Al-Qaida members at Pakistan airports. The ISID members diverted Al-Qaida members through unofficial channels to avoid detection from officials in search of terrorists,” the file claims.
Pretty much the sort of thing you'd expect, right? There wouldn't be any other way for him to hide for so long if it weren't for getting inside help.
The bigger issue is : why?
Is everyone in the US intelligence community so stupid to think that Pakistan might not be capable of 'sheltering' him?
I doubt it.
It's all a lot of........... hogwash to me, really. ...........
Just to add more to the discussion:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/lawrence-...-and-al-qaeda/
Watching the interview with Rice, it made me thought of how Rice was perfectly psychologically selected for her job. She stuck to her script with all the passion of an LSI fulfilling a specific duty - everything to the contrary was met with staunch refusal.
it also makes me think about how so much of the stuff debated on TV, even though it has some actual bearing, it's just . .. so pointless.
Well... I mean, it's certainly not out of the question. It would be deliciously ironic if that were the case. It could be down to internal politics, communications failures, red tape, unwillingness to carry out this kind of Op on a ally... any of a hundred things. What I think you're hinting is a mixture of willful ignorance and malevolent indifference to the obvious. And, well... I guess this could count as solid enough evidence to base a pretty good conspiracy theory on, but it just seems more likely that things have never just aligned properly before now.
Realistically speaking, I'm sure that's the case.
I don't think there is a conspiracy theory per se, I just think a lot of huff and puff is sort of arbitrary and I feel awkward debating certain minor points when major points trump the minor ones so much.
But the problem is I don't know all the details about the major points, so, it's limited analysis. I'm just being bitchy right now, though, oh well.
I do think that if the USA wanted to find bin laden 100% balls to the wall desiring of it, it would have happened years ago. But there was an endeavor into iraq instead, and a 'war' in Afghanistan. Blah blah blah
Yeah. It was a rather spectacular waste of time, money, and human life for all involved.
Meh I think there is a lot of incompetency;
Especially the way the wars are fought, there is no way we are going to make a long term change in middle east in any way but a negative way. The source of the conflict is ideological and people aren't going to be able to resolve that conflict regardless of what they think. There are two ways to resolve an ideological conflict; either diplomatic resolution or complete annihilation of the culture.
You either learn to reconciled your differences or you kill/convert the populus in a direct way.
America is somewhere strangely in the space between these two options, because of our democratic system, and no leader is capable of having the balls to dedicate to one or the other and bring results.
Also, as an aside... Politicians and the media constantly want to hide the brutality of war or glorify it, instead of trying to find something noble in it amidst the shitstorm of all the bad stuff that happens that makes up the majority of war.
WTF KNOW WEIGH
Wait...what happened to Ghaddafi?
Gaddafi Survives a NATO Air Strike, as Fighting Intensifies
By Vivienne Walt Sunday, May 01, 2011
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...068773,00.html
Six weeks after NATO bombs began pounding Libya, Muammar Gaddafi's youngest son, Seif al-Arab, 29, and three of the Libyan leader's grandchildren were killed in an air strike near Gaddafi's house late Saturday, government officials said. The attack narrowly missed Gaddafi himself, according to officials who accused NATO of breaking international law by trying to assassinate the leader. But while residents reported hearing the unmistakable sounds of bombs exploding on the capital, few other details emerging from the war this weekend were certain — including even whether Gaddafi's son, the least famous of his eight children, was really dead.
Can you say "decoy"?
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musical interlude
heh
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_857026.html
"He's not in a cave", eh?
She should've made a multi-million-dollar bet.
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I care far more about obamas economic policies than this towel wearing fear monger 12500 miles away.
Just for the record, I tend to favor the theory that the controversy over Obama's nationality amounts to a clever act of subterfuge on the part of the Obama administration. It's clear that Obama is a natural born US citizen, and yet he has made only a halfhearted effort to dispel rumors to the contrary. I suppose it's possible that his strategists counseled him to avoid the subject for fear that his involvement in the controversy would serve to further legitimize birther skepticism. I doubt this to be the case however. I suspect the Obama administration sees the controversy as a golden opportunity to make its opponents look bad and potentially to draw the attention of the media away from topics more dangerous to the administration.
In other words, I'm starting to think Obama's vacillation over the citizenship issue has all along amounted to a magnificent tarbaby. By refusing to release a long form birth certificate early in his campaign, Obama successfully managed to lure a few injudicious, republican affiliated politicians (e.g. Donald Trump) into the arena with this non-issue, thereby creating a media shitstorm bound to make the republican party look racist and worthless. Has anybody else noticed the incredible lengths to which the republican establishment has gone to dissociate from Trump? For the entire month of April, the Drudge Report turned its propaganda machine away from Obama and towards Trump. Quit simply, the Republican party as a whole wants no part of this controversy cause they know it is bound only to make them look bad.
Some speculate that Obama timed the release of the long form birth certificate to distract from economic issues. I think this is a shitty theory. If this were the case, Obama should have continued dancing around the birth certificate issue rather than attempt to put the issue to rest once and for all. A more credible explanation, IMO, is that Obama was preparing to make the Bin Laden announcement and, knowing his credibility would be called into question on the matter, wanted to make prevailing conspiracy theories look maximally stupid and secure as much trust from the public as possible beforehand.
Obama is a slip, slip, slippery character. Upon announcing his decision to release a long form birth certificate, he feigned disappointment and bewilderment over the level of attention given the story. Sure Obama, sure that wasn't exactly what you were expecting and indeed hoping for all along.
Oh yeah, and I'm entirely open to the possibility that the Osama announcement/operation was calculated to distract from the economy. Although, if this be the case, I do have to wonder why Obama specifically chose this moment in time to throw the Osama card (I suspect he'll have more opportune moments from an economic vantage point over the course of the remainder of his term).
Obama is definitely no dummy, that's for sure. An incredible strategist.
My feeling was that the timing of the birth certificate announcement just prior to the Bin Laden operation was to more solidly bolster and bring home the fact that he's been concentrating on more serious matters than the frivolous birther issue. And to demonstrate that Trump picks on stupid little things that really dont matter much in the bigger picture.
I too think the timing was intentional. And effective.
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My question is, if she got this tip from "a very knowledgeable" source, why didn't she go to the CIA with this info?
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Lol pre-meditation or not, I still think its fucking pathetic people waste their time with stupid stuff like this when they could be debating real issues. Pre-meditation on the part of Obamas staff doesn't make me all of a sudden say... poor manipulated republicans, mean manipulative liberal elites that control the media! It makes me say, who gives a shit, now, and who gave a shit, then, obviously doesn't give a shit about the important stuff.
The real enemies to the economy are the republicans, they worry more about control of the White house than the nation's economy, I have near absolute confidence republicans would love to sabotague our nation when there is a democrat in power just to have the opportunity to come in and gloriously save the day. That's the true color of American politics, is about partisan dominance and not the greater good for the nation. I'm telling you, if it was ever discovered by a republican that a democrat did something positive for the nation, they wouldn't feel a sense of gratitude, they would first immediately invent a conspiracy theory, no not be skeptical, as skeptics are equally as skeptical of conspiracy theories, they would INVENT one... then if that fails they would kill themselves or go delusional. America isn't shit because of the republicans or democrats, its shit because of our partisan politics, narcissism, hypercompetitivity, and materialism. If more people thought for themselves instead of attempting to interface with a particular "party" and go to political prep rallies for adults, learned to see the universe as consisting of more than themselves and their own lives, cultivated an appreciation for learning from failures instead of having a neurotic fear of loosing, and learned to enjoy the non-material in life.... I promise you things would improve vastly. Too many people buy into partisan lies... the figures don't lie, in this era of American politics its increasingly common to see Americans flip-flop between parties. After a president from one party is elected, its common for a congress of the opposite party to get control at the next election. If we as citizen were looking at a politician like this, we would say they are a flip-flopper and are confused. Why aren't americans looking at themselves like this, afterall in a democracy aren't the citizens the politicians in a sense as all political power is ultimately derived from their votes? Why aren't americans aware of the faults of bipartisanship? Why don't americans decide what it is they support and think for themselves. All the republicans and democrats are, are aristocracies much like those that ruled over Europe 300 years ago. America is becoming less and less free everyday, more polarized, the executive branch bigger, and our role in international politics more imperialistic.
Republicans are ruled by the upper echeleons of society which have the most wealth and influence to win at political campaigning. Looking at the last election, republicans are represented by three main categories.
- The Military
- Corporate America
- Evangelical Christians
Each of these three ruling elements of upper class American society, constantly campaign to the American people for their support, claiming they will
- Make our nation strong/proud
- Make our nation moral/holy
- Protect our nation
It's pretty much the protestant work ethic on steroids; chrisitian moralism mixed with the military-industrial complex. Is that what you really support?
Even if the republicans are the tougher and more work/industry oriented class. They fail to realize that what is going to save America isn't adherence to the old way of doing things, the Post WWII "Let's overthrow dictators - GO UN!" mentality in terms of international politics, and the Post WWII modernistic industrial work ethic... what needs to happen is a paradigm shift, we need someone to ride the wave and dynamically adapt to the world that is forming around us.
I'm not saying obama is the one to do this, I'm saying I think the american people should be the ones to do this.
Last edited by male; 05-11-2011 at 01:14 AM.
Whenever I see people still posting in this thread, I keep hoping to pop in here and see that Osama has risen from the dead. Preferably as a zombie.
u mean like Jesus?
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More like
Teddy Roosevelt vs Zombie Osama
: /
Come on now. Do you think the CIA really didn't know and someone like her did, and it's just a matter of her not telling the mighty CIA?
pretty much
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well true... but private people can tell each other insider info that the CIA could conceivably not know yet. Though if the CIA didn't already know it, they did once she revealed it on national TV for the whole world to hear.
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Gee, that didn't take long.
PhotoBlog - American jihadist leads pro al-Qaida rally in Somalia
http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...a/from/toolbar
Notice how similar this guy is to bin Laden. It's like the position of al-Qaeda leader requires very specific credentials and abilities.
lol and what would those qualities be?
ability to stoke the fires of your base and be outrageous or have big plans, give people an excuse to get angry and have some sense of fulfillment or duty in their life? Take some sort of moral high ground while emphasizing the negative or inhuman qualities of another group?
It's the same deal in a lot of places.
But man al-Qaeda is a shadow of it's former self. You get the sense that the CIA has eyes everywhere, that it's like a game of cat and mouse, and the mouse is completely unaware it is being toyed with by the cat.
Like that Chinese tale of the mouse that ran around the sleeping cat day after day after day, till one day the cat reaches out and flattens it with its paw.
You make do-it-yourself demagoguery sound so easy.
Lol those evil people, can you believe that people dislike America... the sole bastion of freedom which stands proudly atop a hill, the white city, abundant with its noble citizenry and lush material wealth.
The evil muslims, the outlanders, come in hoardes from the harsh and desecrated lands of the east, where they live in a barbaric culture. They don't shave, their women are treated like slaves, and like godless heathens worship evil gods which command them to slay innocents so that they may be rewarded greatly in the afterlife.
Now is the critical time to strike, a vanguard of patriotic warriors stands ready to answer the call of freedom in one climatic showdown between those who like America and those who dislike America. Now is the time for action, you must choose sides. Those who are not part of the solution are part of the problem. Those who see evil and do nothing are just as guilty.
UH-MERIC-CAH, FUCK YEA!
We will chant this and hold our flag high as we defend this nation down to the last Wal-Mart.
Yes the al-Qaeda is much like a stalk of corn from which the cob has been removed and only the husk remains. The very heart of al-Qaeda which once sustained Islamic fanaticism with its vitality has been bored out in a swift and decisive move on behalf of America. Osama's defeat comes swiftly on the eve of our economic peril, turning the tide towards an optimistic future for America, giving hope to those that have none, answering the desperate supplication of the masses. Americans finally have something to feel proud about.
That something is the dead body of Osama bin laden. Now some of the skeptics (the "non" americans) may say "What is so special about this dead body compared to other dead bodies much like the ones I can go see at the local funeral home or morge". Well... the difference is quite simple. Those dead bodies were not decreed to be killed by America -- Osama was. See... this death shows the competency of America to the rest of the world. It shows we can say "We will kill you" and follow through with it. It shows that if America wants to kill you, it will happen. "YES WE CAN!"
At this point I hear some skeptics in the crowd saying "Oh geee.... killing people that sounds cruel"..... HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH "cruel if you are a spineless liberal pussy or a terrorist". Let me explain.... this death is not merely a man's death. This death is the death of injustice and so like the phoenix symbolizes death-rebirth. The rebirth of a new era of justice and freedom and the death of terrorism and evil. Now that Osama is dead the US can rise again to great heights that it was previously unable to do under the shackles of terrorism.
These shackles, now removed, symbolize the dawn of a new era, in which Al Qaeda runs around like a cockroach scurrying in the newly lit torch of liberty ignited by the passionate hearts of patriots. While brave men stand perched high like an eagle watching it's prey scurry ever vigilant.
I should write propoganda, this is fun....
Now I just need a megaphone
Last edited by male; 05-12-2011 at 11:21 PM.
Good news, deathers!
Bill Warren, a California diver who makes his living discovering shipwrecks is setting out a new mission: recover Osama bin Laden's remains. The treasure hunter is plotting to find Bin Laden's remains in the north Arabian sea. According to Warren, "It is the most exciting and maybe dangerous project."
Warren, who says he has discovered 150 wrecks, is plotting a two-week expedition which includes renting a remote-operated submarine. He wants to prove that he is in fact, dead.
After the United States proclaimed that bin Laden was killed in this Pakistani compound and that DNA tests verified his identity, his body was placed in a weighted bag and buried at sea. But photos of his corpse were never publicized, which some say breeds skepticism.
"If we are successful and find him with sonar and recover him with a remote-operated vehicle, we'll recover the body in the bag and take photographs, video, and a DNA test", Warren stated. ''I'm not sure. I know his family lives in Arabia."
With money from associates, Warren says this hunt could cost nearly one million dollars.
One part that's probably a lie is that they gently lowered him into the sea. It's waaaay more likely that the soldiers drew penises all over his face then threw him overboard while shouting: "drown in cock, you mooslim bastard". Or something like that.
Last edited by xerx; 06-15-2011 at 03:32 PM.
imo, it is not Bin Laden. I believe Bin Laden died around December in 2001.
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