Idea about how I can figure out my type

[Beautiful sky]

Hmm... well, how good would you say I am at Ti, exactly? And which block do you see it in? Ego? Id? Superego?

The main problem I have with Ti, is that I would also have to value Fe... which I'm not sure that I do.

I actually read that Fi description, and I do think I definitely relate to it more than Fe... but it could very well be a valued function in some other part of my psyche. It may not be Ego.

Based on everything you've said, including the dichotomies, the only valid type I can see is ILI... but I'm not convinced yet. I think I'm going to keep on researching this for a while.

It's not in your ego block; because it seems to be used in exchange with Fi or Ni and that you devalue Fe, you seem to have Ti either in your Role Block or Demonstrative.

Yeah...I really do see you switching off Fi with Ti and having Ti as a role function, which is very strong for Fi base types.

Well, I used to do so frequently. I was always interested in being informed. I still keep up with certain stories that I'm invested in, like the Wikileaks thing, but I've recently started ignoring the most of news, because it's too depressing (the economy and the middle east unrest). I still keep up with things related to my friends and their personal lives, as well as technology/science news, though.



I wouldn't think so. If I have Sensing in my Ego by some chance, it's more likely to be Si.



I'm beginning to think so as well.


I'm not sure what to make of Quadras, but that's an interesting way of going about things. Even when I followed MBTI, I always believed that you must value one function pair, and devalue the other. Most people didn't think that way, and it made them believe ridiculous things about their type. I was one of the most successful typists as a result of this belief. Now I'm starting over again...

So, Alpha and Delta value Ne/Si, while Beta and Gamma value Se/Ni, right? Looks like all I have to do is figure out whether I value Fi/Te or Ti/Fe, and I should have my Quadra, at least.

I think this qualities for both base, because with base function if you value Fi than you definitely don't really care for Fe too much, so you ignore it, even though you can take part in it briefly, out of being polite, sociable, respectful, and other Fi qualities. And, you would devalue Se if you were EII because than you valued Si atmosphere. That is why I asked for what you ignore and what atmosphere you enjoyed.

Don't take maritsa seriously. She can be a bit sharp with her opinions.

Quaris, I don't appreciate comments like this and I will report every single one of anyone's posts that addresses my name in a negative way. I'm tired of you and others like you treating me this way.

[mirrorsoul]

If you want to know what Fi, or any of the IE's mean, you can read them yourself here

Those are pretty good descriptions. I may use those more in the future.

Can you give some real life examples of how you would use Fi to judge and approach situations? Why do you believe Fe is is too presumptuous and chaotic? Can you describe these functions in your own words?

Well, actually, it wasn't my own words that lead me to view it that way. Look at this, I don't relate AT ALL to the bolded:

Types that value Fe like creating a visible atmosphere of camaraderie with other people. They enjoy a loose atmosphere where anything goes, where people don't have to watch too carefully what they say for fear of offending others. This means these types try not to be too thin-skinned, taking jokes with a grain of salt. However, they are very conscious of the fact that the way something is said is very important to how it will be received, so they tend to add emphasis, embellishments, and exaggerations here and there to keep people engaged. The best way to say something is highly dependent on the situation and the implied purpose of the exchange, so of course levity is not appropriate in some situations.

Even after explosive arguments, these types find it hard to hold grudges, and can tolerate people they in principle don't like, as long as the situation is primarily social and doesn't require too close contact. They prefer misgivings to be out in the open; they believe that the silent treatment is one of the worst things you can do to a person, and only aggravates the underlying problem.

All of those things about Fe really bother me. I don't feel that I'm like that. Whereas, with Fi, I identify with all of the bolded:

Fi is generally associated with the ability to gain an implicit sense of the subjective 'distance' between two people, and make judgments based off of said thing.

Types with valued Fi strive to make and maintain close, personal relationships with their friends and family. They value sensitivity to others' feelings, and occasionally will make their innermost feelings and sentiments known in order to test the possibility of creating closeness with others.

Also, these types convey emotions in terms of how they were affected by something (such as "I did not like that"), rather than an extroverted ethics (Fe) approach that would describe the object itself without clear reference to the subject involved (such as "That sucked"). Much of their decisions are based on how they themselves, or others in relation to them personally, feel in contrast to considering how "the big picture" is affected (such as groups of people.)

From what you have said I'm going to go with either ILI or IEI. Seems like both sensory functions annoy you lots while you value both of the intuitive functions just as lots, so that would point towards you being dominant in intuition of some sorts.

Interesting, thank you.

mmm not sure about that ... I'm a Ni-Fe-Ti-Se type in MBTI and in socionics same - Ni leading Fe creative. All of my functions match up. The type profiles assigned to the function though I found vary quite a bit which can lead to confusion.

Ugh... I'm very sure that the functions are different. I mean, COME ON! Is it not obvious that MBTI Se is NOTHING like Socionics Se? Or that MBTI Fe is more like Socionics Fi?

I don't think that even makes sense. Sorry.

It's not in your ego block; because it seems to be used in exchange with Fi or Ni and that you devalue Fe, you seem to have Ti either in your Role Block or Demonstrative.

Thanks for the analysis.

I'm still trying to analyze Socionics, everyone... I'm learning a lot here.

[Beautiful sky]

Looks like EII to me

I would take it that you would like to move away from your family as a cultural influence. I do believe that because I'm from an Armenian family, and our families tend to be extremely tight knit and very Fi (almost all family members are Delta, hence they promote that atmosphere) we do, out of cultural context, promote more Fi. Since you have only a few close members, that might be a cultural reasons why you'd like to explore.

[Marie84]

I would appreciate it if you didn't mention my name at all while offering your input, which has no analysis and lacks total capabilities of Ti. And, for your information and lack of viewing, I did offer her EII as an options, which by the way has Fi, wouldn't you think?

Nope, as long as you or anyone else posts on this board you're open to getting quoted or named dropped, same thing applies to me

You have this careless habit of butchering what I write rather than reading. I think because if you actually read, you might come to agree that you don't qualify to be Fi base under my rules.

oh I'm not disagreeing with you on that

[mirrorsoul]

Looks like EII to me

I would take it that you would like to move away from your family as a cultural influence. I do believe that because I'm from an Armenian family, and our families tend to be extremely tight knit and very Fi (almost all family members are Delta, hence they promote that atmosphere) we do, out of cultural context, promote more Fi. Since you have only a few close members, that might be a cultural reasons why you'd like to explore.

Ah, yeah... that makes sense. I had almost ruled out Fi because I was beginning to think that Fi meant you would be close to your family, and I kind of felt bad about not knowing how to get along with them anyway.

Although, now that I think about it, I'm actually closer to them (at least my immediate family, like my parents and grandparents) than what's considered normal in my culture. I'm 22, and I've really done very little on my own. The only time I ever managed to get a job was working for my father, and eventually he fired me because I was in a bad mood one day. I've lived with my parents my whole life... and I'm constantly bombarded with messages that I've "failed to individuate" or "failed at life," and such. It's normal for children to leave home at 18, or at least have a job or be in college living on campus by then.

I feel that independence and self-sufficiency is a nice ideal, but it's also terrifying. Finally, the last thing that doesn't help... is that I think most of my family (aside from my mother) is in a different quadra. I don't know what you call it, but it's this creepy suburban thing... where they're all obsessed with materialistic displays of status, winning, getting "more," and being all paranoid, conservative, and intolerant of others (based on race, religion, and sexual orientation), and it's just... ugh. It all seems very shallow to me. And they don't seem to appreciate it when I try to use Fi with them, they just tease me and call me a wimp.

Most of them have all but told me that they don't really want me in their lives, but feel like they have to tolerate me because I'm a family member.

My mother and grandmother are MUCH more like me, though. They're actually nice to me. I'm not sure that I totally click with them, but we're comfortable with each other. There is a chance that I'll try to maintain ties with them, but I'm already all but cut off from my other family members anyway.

I can assure you, though, that if there is such a thing as cultural influence on type... Fi is not exactly encouraged in the United States... at least not this part.

So, at the very least, I'm painfully aware of being an Fi valuing type of some sort... because it seems like the people around me are not.

[Beautiful sky]

Nope, as long as you or anyone else posts on this board you're open to getting quoted or named dropped, same thing applies to me



oh I'm not disagreeing with you on that

Ok then you should know that I'm super persistent...here it goes...
If you want to behave like a juvenile with me, I will do the same. If name dropping, is considered ok by you and immature by me, than all be it, I'll play that game....

EVERYONE DON'T TRUST MARIES TYPINGS THEY ARE INACCURATE AND INCORRECT.

DOEST THAT MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD? NO? BECAUSE THAT'S JUVENILE BEHAVIOR, SOMETHING WHICH YOU DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND.

[Ave]

You could be ENTj. Your description of Se sounds familiar to me as Se hidden agenda, especially with beneficiaries. Se does make me happy using it I mean, but its also the most vulnerable spot in my psyche to mess with so to a large extent I empathize with what you wrote on it. Now, you could also be ENFj, but by the little information you brought to the table on these functions, you seem to prefer Fi over Fe, so Im guessing youd be more gamma.

[Beautiful sky]

She's a serious type. She doesn't take part of much. Nor has she tried to produce this information at all. So far, with her "should's", "why's", and "how's" she uses /

[Sir Knight]

I can assure you, though, that if there is such a thing as cultural influence on type... Fi is not exactly encouraged in the United States... at least not this part.

So, at the very least, I'm painfully aware of being an Fi valuing type of some sort... because it seems like the people around me are not.

Supposedly the US is Te/Fi valuing if you buy into ethnosocionics. Also, you'll find that you can interact easily and naturally with most any member of your own quadra, especially Activity and Mirror members.

[Beautiful sky]

Ah, yeah... that makes sense. I had almost ruled out Fi because I was beginning to think that Fi meant you would be close to your family, and I kind of felt bad about not knowing how to get along with them anyway.

Although, now that I think about it, I'm actually closer to them (at least my immediate family, like my parents and grandparents) than what's considered normal in my culture. I'm 22, and I've really done very little on my own. The only time I ever managed to get a job was working for my father, and eventually he fired me because I was in a bad mood one day. I've lived with my parents my whole life... and I'm constantly bombarded with messages that I've "failed to individuate" or "failed at life," and such. It's normal for children to leave home at 18, or at least have a job or be in college living on campus by then.

I feel that independence and self-sufficiency is a nice ideal, but it's also terrifying. Finally, the last thing that doesn't help... is that I think most of my family (aside from my mother) is in a different quadra. I don't know what you call it, but it's this creepy suburban thing... where they're all obsessed with materialistic displays of status, winning, getting "more," and being all paranoid, conservative, and intolerant of others (based on race, religion, and sexual orientation), and it's just... ugh. It all seems very shallow to me. And they don't seem to appreciate it when I try to use Fi with them, they just tease me and call me a wimp.

Most of them have all but told me that they don't really want me in their lives, but feel like they have to tolerate me because I'm a family member.

My mother and grandmother are MUCH more like me, though. They're actually nice to me. I'm not sure that I totally click with them, but we're comfortable with each other. There is a chance that I'll try to maintain ties with them, but I'm already all but cut off from my other family members anyway.

I can assure you, though, that if there is such a thing as cultural influence on type... Fi is not exactly encouraged in the United States... at least not this part.

So, at the very least, I'm painfully aware of being an Fi valuing type of some sort... because it seems like the people around me are not.

Have you aggitated the feelings of your family members to try to bring them closer to you in any way in the past?

An example of me doing this is when I noticed that my emotionless SLI father often introverted and kept his emotions away from us, even though he cared and provided all the care that we needed, wasn't being physically and verbally lovey dovey with me, I called him on it and started crying, saying, "you don't say 'I love you' to us, ever. Why don't you say you love us. Is it so hard for you to say those words." He was baffled that I wanted verbal affection just as much as physical. So, from there on he was slowly adapted to saying I love you on occasion.

Have you tried things to bring your family members closer to you?

[mirrorsoul]

Have you aggitated the feelings of your family members to try to bring them closer to you in any way in the past?

An example of me doing this is when I noticed that my emotionless SLI father often introverted and kept his emotions away from us, even though he cared and provided all the care that we needed, wasn't being physically and verbally lovey dovey with me, I called him on it and started crying, saying, "you don't say 'I love you' to us, ever. Why don't you say you love us. Is it so hard for you to say those words." He was baffled that I wanted verbal affection just as much as physical. So, from there on he was slowly adapted to saying I love you on occasion.

Have you tried things to bring your family members closer to you?

Well, I've tried tried that sort of thing with them, but a lot of them respond negatively, like I said. That's the sort of thing that generally causes them to tease me and call me a wimp. They just don't appreciate my need for verbal affection. They think it's weird. Well, except for my mother and grandmother.

I'm not sure why it is that they're like that... hmm.

[DividedsGhost]

Out of curiosity, what do you think about LSE?

[Beautiful sky]

Well, I've tried tried that sort of thing with them, but a lot of them respond negatively, like I said. That's the sort of thing that generally causes them to tease me and call me a wimp. They just don't appreciate my need for verbal affection. They think it's weird. Well, except for my mother and grandmother.

I'm not sure why it is that they're like that... hmm.

Well, from all your responses and posts, I do see that you're an introvert, who has good use of Ti, and demonstrates Fi sometimes. From this, I conclude my typing of you and it's official in my book, for you as SEI

You're also a good Mediator, that is why in socionics your type is The Mediator -This is very clearly observed in your interaction with others in Dj and I thread. You're friendly and good natured.

You can carry a good argument without getting emotionally hurt, which is more of an Fi thing, it also tells me you view emotions as objective things outside of your own personal self, and any attacks in your direction are bounced away from your internal feelings, for the most part, making you an Fe type instead of Fi; you're also a Process type but not with any intention of making your own theory or exploring your own ideas...hence no Ne in your ego block; you aren't easily carried away by wild ideas, as I am or as an Ne type would be. You're much more realistic, hence S as a function; Si to be exact.

[ashlesha]

i think you're probably EII based on your forum posts in general.

what i notice you talking about the most is expressing your personal sentiments about what feels right/good and what feels wrong/bad to you. (maybe those things are just what stand out to me, but they're what i've noticed.) and your views that you expressed earlier about people deserving to be treated like human beings regardless of certain behaviors, that was like classic delta NF imo. i think most of the posts i've directed at you have been in disagreement, lol, but not because i think you're upside-down with where you're coming from or anything, i respect you even if it might not look that way.

i'm not absolutely positive you're EII, but i feel fairly solid about it.

[mirrorsoul]

Well, from all your responses and posts, I do see that you're an introvert, who has good use of Ti, and demonstrates Fi sometimes. From this, I conclude my typing of you and it's official in my book, for you as SEI

You're also a good Mediator, that is why in socionics your type is The Mediator -This is very clearly observed in your interaction with others in Dj and I thread. You're friendly and good natured.

You can carry a good argument without getting emotionally hurt, which is more of an Fi thing, it also tells me you view emotions as objective things outside of your own personal self, and any attacks in your direction are bounced away from your internal feelings, for the most part, making you an Fe type instead of Fi; you're also a Process type but not with any intention of making your own theory or exploring your own ideas...hence no Ne in your ego block; you aren't easily carried away by wild ideas, as I am or as an Ne type would be. You're much more realistic, hence S as a function; Si to be exact.

Ah, I see... interesting.

If I do sometimes create my own theories, but don't usually do so, and don't really trust my own theories without a lot of affirmation from others... I could still be an SEI using Ne, right?

Most of the time, when I do come up with a theory, someone else provided the impetus, and hinted at the theory, and then I just flesh it out and envision a large theory that reveals what I think all the implications and details will be.

SEI really is the only Sensing type I've seriously considered, so it's interesting that you've typed me that way.

[Jarno]

Idea about how I can figure out my type...

yeah, use the 4 dichotomies instead of functions.

[Computer Loser]

Here's a start. Choose one from each that best fits you.

1) higher energy level, sociable
lower energy level, reserved, soft spoken
2) interpret matters literally, rely on common sense
look for meaning and possibilities, rely on foresight
3) logical, thinking, questioning
empathetic, feeling, accommodating
4) organized, orderly
flexible, adaptable
5) outgoing, make things happen
shy, do fewer things
6) practical, realistic, experiential
imaginative, innovative, theoretical
7) candid, straight forward, frank
tactful, kind, encouraging
8) plan, schedule
unplanned, spontaneous
9) seek many tasks, public activities, interaction with others
seek more private, solitary activities with quiet to concentrate
10) standard, usual, conventional
different, novel, unique
11) firm, tend to criticize, hold the line
gentle, tend to appreciate, conciliate
12) regulated, structured
easygoing, "live" and "let live"
13) external, communicative, express yourself
internal, reticent, hold things in
14) consider immediate issues, focus on the here-and-now
look to future, global perspective, "big picture"
15) tough-minded, just
tenderhearted, merciful
16) preparation, work-minded
go with the flow, play-minded
17) active, initiate
reflective, deliberate
18) facts, things, seeing "what is"
ideas, dreams, seeing "what could be," philosophical
19) matter of fact, issue-oriented, principled
sensitive, people-oriented, compassionate
20) control, govern
latitude, freedom

After we tally it up, it may better help us see our choices.

yeah, use the 4 dichotomies instead of functions.

Yup. Do that for now. Analyze functions at the end.

[mirrorsoul]

yeah, use the 4 dichotomies instead of functions.

If I go by that, I'm INFj, because I already know that I'm an INFJ in MBTI. The four dichotomies are not different between the two systems, though the functions are. I thought Socionics was supposed to be different?

[Computer Loser]

If I go by that, I'm INFj, because I already know that I'm an INFJ in MBTI. The four dichotomies are not different between the two systems, though the functions are. I thought Socionics was supposed to be different?

The functions/intertype relations in MBTI are kinda iffy in relation to Socionics. Example: They recommend ISTJ with ESFP because Se and Si align well together - Uh, this doesn't work in real life. Therefore IMO, MBTI functions are flawed from a practical standpoint. However, the description of each type between the systems are similar enough to give you a good place to start.

Did you read a lot of the INFj/EII descriptions? What did you think of them?

Also, use that same approach with many people you are close with. Then, check up on your intertype relations with them. Do this as much as possible and ask yourself if it makes sense.

[mirrorsoul]

Did you read a lot of the INFj/EII descriptions? What did you think of them?

They seemed to fit reasonably well, but then a lot of the descriptions fit me well... The only thing I can really get out of the descriptions, is that I'm definitely NOT an Ego type... it's easier for me to say what I'm not, than what I am.

Yeah, I know the functions and intertype relations are different, but the dichotomies are pretty much the same.

Also, use that same approach with many people you are close with. Then, check up on your intertype relations with them. Do this as much as possible and ask yourself if it makes sense.

That's a little difficult... I'm not really close to anyone in my life except my mother, and she's not sure of her type. She thinks she's Alpha, though. I'm fairly isolated, and generally have little more than superficial interactions with other people about subjects like asking the time, buying stuff, and getting directions.

[Computer Loser]

That's a good start. Now you can try comparing some stuff. Which one are you/seek MORE?

SEI VS EII

1) Temperament

IP vs IJ

IP- relaxed, go with the flow. Wait and see.

IJ- rigid, somewhat stubborn. Plan ahead.

2) Dual-seeking

Ne dual seeking- Appreciate people that believe in your potential. Have difficulty identifying your own unique talents.

Te dual seeking- Thirsty for new information. Appreciate people that are efficient, get things done. Have difficulty determining whether you're achieving your goals.

---

The only thing I can really get out of the descriptions, is that I'm definitely NOT an Ego type... it's easier for me to say what I'm not, than what I am.

That's good. Perhaps that could point towards Se-PoLR, an INFj's least preferred function.

...I'm fairly isolated, and generally have little more than superficial interactions with other people about subjects like asking the time, buying stuff, and getting directions

Are you/Have you ever been weary of socializing at first? INFjs have Se-PoLR which causes them to have, at first glance, a general "withdrawal attitude" from living in the moment.

ISFps, on the other hand, are more instinctually likely to "let go" and live in the moment.

[mirrorsoul]

IP- relaxed, go with the flow. Wait and see.

IJ- rigid, somewhat stubborn. Plan ahead.

Well, it kind of depends on the situation. If I've been given tasks or duties to perform, I can be very rigid and plan ahead. But if I don't have any responsibilities, or anything weighing on my mind, then I'm more relaxed and tend to wait and see.

Does that help?

Ne dual seeking- Appreciate people that believe in your potential. Have difficulty identifying your own unique talents.

Te dual seeking- Thirsty for new information. Appreciate people that are efficient, get things done. Have difficulty determining whether you're achieving your goals.

Well, I do appreciate people who believe in my potential, and I don't have a clear idea of what I'm good at.

I am thristy for new information, but I don't have difficulty determining whether I'm achieving my goals, or what goals I want to pursue... I just have difficulty finding ways to acheive them.

When I need to, I can force myself to be efficient and get things done. I appreciate it when other people can do the same, rather than just waste my time and get me in trouble when I'm in a hurry. I'm not sure if that's what you mean, though.

That's good. Perhaps that could point towards Se-PoLR, an INFj's least preferred function.

Actually, I've heard that the ignoring function can be strongly disliked as well, at least according to Reinin.

Are you/Have you ever been weary of socializing at first? INFjs have Se-PoLR which causes them to have, at first glance, a general "withdrawal attitude" from living in the moment.

ISFps, on the other hand, are more instinctually likely to "let go" and live in the moment.

Well, I don't quickly get tired of socializing... I just tend to be cautious about engaging in it, because I'm not sure whether I should trust people or not, or whether I'll make a bad impression. When I am socializing with people I trust, though, I enjoy it completely. I'm more willing to live in the moment if I don't feel threatened by the situation.

[ashlesha]

what is it about SEI that you think might fit?

[mirrorsoul]

what is it about SEI that you think might fit?

Hmm? Well, I'll pull up a description and highlight what I think applies.

SEIs have and in their ego, which means that they are extremely attuned to the internal atmosphere of their bodies, and the external atmosphere around them in daily lives. This in effect means that an SEI knows when to use to raise the mood of a group or an individual on account of their ability to sense physical states of people and groups gifted by . This pairing makes them especially skilled with interpersonal relationships.

1. Introverted Sensing
SEIs have a strong connection to and ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others. They understand how these states are reached and are able to easily recreate or avoid them if desired. They are innately drawn to situations that satisfy their inner physical needs and experience. They are usually skilled at the art of recreation, enjoyment, and positive aesthetic experience.

SEIs often feel that they are in a rush, both mentally and physically. Therefore, they can sometimes feel like they need to get everything done at once (which can be explained by the SEIs base and role functions). When an SEI starts a personal project, they often have the tendency to try to get concrete results in the shortest amount of time, which can lead to rushing and carelessness. This could lead to the SEI becoming stressed and overworked.

Often unable to express their feelings well using words, the SEI will instead create "art" (artwork, food, writing, or any other aesthetic situations) to illustrate the comfort or discomfort that they are experiencing internally.

SEIs try to make their living space comforting and appealing to the senses and strive to improve the lives of those they are close to.

2. Extraverted Ethics
SEIs are sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around them, either from an individual, a group, or even from inanimate objects and their physical environment. A positive emotional atmosphere is essential to their sense of well being and inner peace, and they either try to create that atmosphere by directly influencing their surrounding, or by simply removing themselves from the situation or people that in their view is the cause of a negative emotional environment. In the former case they often use humor to lighten the atmosphere by cracking jokes and lighthearted teasing.

A SEI can also take the role of a "clown" of sorts to ensure all people are emotionally light and comfortable. SEIs are also capable of creating an intimate open atmosphere where others can be comfortable sharing their emotions or talking about their problems. SEIs also tend to mirror and heighten the emotions experienced by the group dynamically.

SEIs are generally unable to conceal their feelings because their faces are so emotionally expressive. They display their comfort and discomfort vividly, and can often be seen wearing the widest smiles or the longest frowns.

Some of these are less obvious or applicable online, compared to real life.

[ashlesha]

i want to respond sometime on my laptop when i can actually see bolded text and quote more than one thing and stuff, so i'm not ignoring this ftr.

[Computer Loser]

Well, it kind of depends on the situation. If I've been given tasks or duties to perform, I can be very rigid and plan ahead. But if I don't have any responsibilities, or anything weighing on my mind, then I'm more relaxed and tend to wait and see.

Well, I was asking the question assuming the same condition. If all of us are given a huge assignment, each type will handle it differently. So If you had a ton of responsibilities on hand, you would be more likely to be rigid and plan ahead over being laid back about it, right?

If yes, IJ > IP
If no, IJ < IP

Well, I do appreciate people who believe in my potential, and I don't have a clear idea of what I'm good at.

I am thristy for new information, but I don't have difficulty determining whether I'm achieving my goals, or what goals I want to pursue... I just have difficulty finding ways to acheive them.

When I need to, I can force myself to be efficient and get things done. I appreciate it when other people can do the same, rather than just waste my time and get me in trouble when I'm in a hurry. I'm not sure if that's what you mean, though.

Well, ask yourself then, which quality is more important to you during a stressful situation?

Let's say you had a mission to kill someone. The stakes are high- the country will be bombed if you fail. There are two people that can help you kill that person, but you can only choose one person.

Person A- Sees different ways of killing that person
Person B- Gets the job done, efficient killer.

Who would you choose? (Just pick one)

Now can you apply this same question to your life, overall? Think about some current, stressful, life situations.

If you can see person A as more useful in your life --> +1 for ISFp
If you can see person B as more useful in your life --> +1 for INFj

[mirrorsoul]

Well, I was asking the question assuming the same condition. If all of us are given a huge assignment, each type will handle it differently. So If you had a ton of responsibilities on hand, you would be more likely to be rigid and plan ahead over being laid back about it, right?

If yes, IJ > IP
If no, IJ < IP

Yes, that's right.

Well, ask yourself then, which quality is more important to you during a stressful situation?

Let's say you had a mission to kill someone. The stakes are high- the country will be bombed if you fail. There are two people that can help you kill that person, but you can only choose one person.

Person A- Sees different ways of killing that person
Person B- Gets the job done, efficient killer.

Who would you choose? (Just pick one)

Now can you apply this same question to your life, overall?

If you can see person A as more useful in your life --> +1 for ISFp
If you can see person B as more useful in your life --> +1 for INFj

Person B... but only because I think an efficient killer would be more effective at their job than someone who can come up with lots of possibilities for killing someone.

To be honest with you, I would rather have Person A plan out various ways of killing the person on paper, and Person B select and carry out the one they thought best. But Person B seems to be the one with the correct knowledge for the job.

There's also the fact that person A would probably come up with the plan, and expect me to carry it out... where as person B would probably kill the person themselves.

[Computer Loser]

Yes, that's right.



Person B... but only because I think an efficient killer would be more effective at their job than someone who can come up with lots of possibilities for killing someone.

To be honest with you, I would rather have Person A plan out various ways of killing the person on paper, and Person B select and carry out the one they thought best. But Person B seems to be the one with the correct knowledge for the job.

Haha, cool. So now apply it to life. Think about your life goals. Think about the times you've been stressed out. Which source of external assistance would better get you moving? Is it correct knowledge (Te) to get where you want, or seeing the various ways (Ne) you can go?

For me, the thing I need most is passion, some energy... More so than knowledge, possibilities, etc., If I have that, I feel like I can do anything.

---

I hope that helped a little...Sorry if it didn't.

Time to study..

[mirrorsoul]

Haha, cool. So now apply it to life. Think about your life goals. Think about the times you've been stressed out. Which source of external assistance would better get you moving? Is it correct knowledge (Te) to get where you want, or seeing the various ways (Ne) you can go?

Well, when I'm stressed out, I usually want to push everyone away and don't want any external assistance... I just want to be left alone, and shut down.

Hmm... but more often, I just want to be reassured, or have the person take care of things for me... I guess that could be Te?

[Beautiful sky]

Well, when I'm stressed out, I usually want to push everyone away and don't want any external assistance... I just want to be left alone, and shut down.

Hmm... but more often, I just want to be reassured, or have the person take care of things for me... I guess that could be Te?

Mirrorsoul, LSEs are very controlling, how would this fit with you as a choice of partners?

Also, I'm still thinking of Te PoLR and what that really means; so far, Te is focusing on external action and Fe is focusing on external emotions.

Can you explain what things about others bug you? When they do this to you; if you can, without socionics, describe what your weaknesses are or what would be considered your point of least resistance.

[mirrorsoul]

Mirrorsoul, LSEs are very controlling, how would this fit with you as a choice of partners?

I have no clue, honestly... I haven't interacted with a whole lot of different kinds of people. I don't know what I would want in a partner, and doubt that I want one at all...

Also, I'm still thinking of Te PoLR and what that really means; so far, Te is focusing on external action and Fe is focusing on external emotions.

That seems like a reasonable assumption, I guess.

Can you explain what things about others bug you? When they do this to you; if you can, without socionics, describe what your weaknesses are or what would be considered your point of least resistance.

I don't like aggressive people. I don't like people who try to assert their dominance, tell people that there's only one right way to be, and make them feel horrible about themselves. I don't like people who are deliberately cruel, insensitive, and/or unreasonable.

There are a few archetypes of things that I can point to as examples of what I dislike:

1. Dogs. I'm very uncomfortable with the behavior of dogs. I don't like the way they run towards the door barking as soon as you walk in... I don't like the way they try to lick you or sniff you, or how I'm expected to "trust" this animal that evokes the mental image of a wolf. I hate the way they bark at everything, the way they chew on things, all that energy they have... I just hate how they're so demanding of people, how people have to let them take a dump anywhere they please, and then go clean up after it. People who behave like a less extreme version of this are also annoying.

2. Guns. I don't really like people owning their own guns... I don't like the anti-authority mentality that's usually behind it. Most of the people who own guns are the sort of people I would trust least with them. I hate the primitive attitude of "I gotta protect my own home," that seems to be behind it. Great, you think you should go around shooting people who do bad things instead of calling the police. How civilized. NOT. I especially dislike people who expose their children to guns, and train them to use them from an early age. For instance, I know someone who let their kids fire real rifles at targets when they were only 8 and 9.

3. Rap music/Black culture. Note that I have nothing against Black people as a race, but I really dislike American Black culture. I get along fine with Black people from other places, or who don't follow that culture, however. I don't like how violent they are, or how chaotic and crude Rap music is... I don't like that intimidating thug look, or that horrible distortion of English that I can barely understand, the way they call women "hoes and bitches." It all gets on my nerves.

4. Country living/Nature. I don't really like the whole idea of living out in the middle of nowhere, completely at the mercy of nature. I'm not really a big fan of the whole "farm" thing, especially since I don't trust crops that have been grown by some random farmer as much as I trust stuff from the grocery store. I also don't like the paranoid, pessimistic attitude many of these people have about civilization, that it will all fall apart, and how it will be necessary to build walls and protect their property themselves. I don't like how hard you have to strain to survive in such an environment, and I don't like all the hard work and expectation of being satisfied with nature as it is, without taking advantage of opportunities to improve on it. I also don't like being expected to enjoy the outdoors, or outdoor activities. I especially hate camping, and all the bugs and dirt, and limited selection of food, etc..

5. Driving cars. I don't actually mind other people driving cars, but I'm terrified of the idea of doing it myself. It's just way too much for me, that whole expectation of paying attention to the road while maneuvering a large hunk of metal careening down the street at high velocity, taking my own life and the lives of people around me into my own hands. I would much rather ride as a passenger, walk, or use public transportation. I also kind of dislike the whole mentality behind people purchasing huge gas-guzzling cars as a status symbol, rather than a compact car. Along with their whole assumption that they "need a car or two," and that that's how "Americans" live, calling it "freedom," and being dismissive of the potential for public transportation supplanting personal cars to some extent in the future.

Does any of this help?

[Slacker]

Mirrorsoul, LSEs are very controlling, how would this fit with you as a choice of partners?

This is a very poorly worded question and is specifically trying to get a particular answer. Try to learn to be unbiased, Maritsa.

[Slacker]

Mirrorsoul - I think you understand the theory well enough already to figure out your own type if you give it a little time. I don't know if this thread will be useful to you if people are trying to argue you into accepting the type they think you are instead of helping you find your type on your own by explaining parts of the theory you might not get yet.

It seems like most people are able to figure out their type eventually unless people start confusing them by arguing about what type they must be. You are the authority on you, and so long as you don't get confused about the theory, you should find your type on your own without too much trouble if you relax and give it some time.

[mirrorsoul]

Mirrorsoul - I think you understand the theory well enough already to figure out your own type if you give it a little time. I don't know if this thread will be useful to you if people are trying to argue you into accepting the type they think you are instead of helping you find your type on your own by explaining parts of the theory you might not get yet.

It seems like most people are able to figure out their type eventually unless people start confusing them by arguing about what type they must be. You are the authority on you, and so long as you don't get confused about the theory, you should find your type on your own without too much trouble if you relax and give it some time.

Well, I've been studying the theory since some time in 2006, off and on... and I still have no clue.

I'm beginning to think that perhaps I don't have a type in Socionics. Maybe I'm just too different from the assumptions it makes about people.

I tried reading off descriptions to my mother, and she said I seemed almost exactly like an ILI now, but that when I was younger, I was much more like an ILE. Of course, online, people often type me as EII or LII... sometimes ILI. The problem with ILI in particular, is that I don't value ... and according to Socionic theory, I would. My own self image just happens to be somewhere between EII, IEI, and SEI... which doesn't help matters at all.

It seems like everything that fits on one level, just doesn't fit on another. I can choose a type that fits, but the quadra values won't fit. I can choose a quadra that fits, but the type won't fit perfectly. I can choose a type that fits other people's idea of me, but it won't fit my own self-concept... I can choose a type that fits my own self-concept, but I'll have doubts and think I'm idealizing myself, and others will feed that doubt.

It's too much...

[Slacker]

I think you probably have a type but maybe need to step back for a bit. Reading type descriptions is an issue because there's a tendency to read yourself into them - forer effect. The more you read the more confused about which you are you might get. I'd just keep posting about Socionics in general, and in Anything Goes, and not worry for now what type you are and I bet at some point you figure it out.

[pianosinger]

Mirrorsoul, an idea--

Is there anyone else close to you whom you might be able to type with more confidence than yourself?

I was sure of my husband's type before I was sure of my own, and once he was typed I could look at the intertype relation descriptions to get more clues about my own type. Sometimes, we may seem to sort of match with other relation descriptions, but we are such a perfect example of Mirage, it's really scary how accurate Socionics can be...

The more people you can type in relation to yourself, the more confident you will be of your own type.

Maybe pick a "best fit" type for now and just wear it for a while as you begin to type and compare yourself to others. If one type doesn't fit after a while, you can try on a different one.

[Slacker]

The only problem with picking a "best fit" type is that people sometimes then learn the theory around the assumption that they are that type, which can get everything confused.

[mirrorsoul]

Mirrorsoul, an idea--

Is there anyone else close to you whom you might be able to type with more confidence than yourself?

I was sure of my husband's type before I was sure of my own, and once he was typed I could look at the intertype relation descriptions to get more clues about my own type. Sometimes, we may seem to sort of match with other relation descriptions, but we are such a perfect example of Mirage, it's really scary how accurate Socionics can be...

The more people you can type in relation to yourself, the more confident you will be of your own type.

Maybe pick a "best fit" type for now and just wear it for a while as you begin to type and compare yourself to others. If one type doesn't fit after a while, you can try on a different one.

I think that part of the problem is that I don't know how I am in relation to other people, because I'm so socially isolated. The one family member I'm close to claims that their personality changes all the time, and that they don't believe that people can be categorized... so I can't type them.

I feel as though I'm just a ghost... I only exist in the shadows of the reality everyone else inhabits. People are only aware of me in a negative or indifferent way.

I believe that it might be impossible to determine your type in a state of relative social isolation, which is what I've been trying to do for the past 5 years without success.

It's also possible that I have a poorly developed Ego in the first place, and thus have no sense of self or identity. There's the intellectual version of me, there's the robotic version of me, there's the passionate, visionary version, there's the attentive, kind version... and I don't know which one is REALLY me. I only know that there are certain ways of being that I've never been. It's easier for me to say what I'm not, than what I am.

[pianosinger]

The only problem with picking a "best fit" type is that people sometimes then learn the theory around the assumption that they are that type, which can get everything confused.

Maybe. It might not work for everyone...

But for instance, in MBTI I thought I was INFj. I thought that way for a good three months before learning about Socionics. When I came to these forums, I started out still assuming I was INFj (and also was looking and INFp, but rejected that idea pretty quickly).

But when I started reading about intertype relations, it really just did not make much sense when applied to RL and the few people I had typed (husband, MIL and FIL for starters).

Interestingly, all three-- husband, MIL and FIL-- were still the same type in Socionics as in MBTI (INTp, INFj, and ISTp respectively).

It just didn't make sense to me that my husband could be my Benefactor. Nor-- when I really admitted it to myself-- could my MIL be my Identical; we had some things in common, but not nearly enough. My FIL was such a perfectly stereotypical example of what I understood about ISTp's and no other type fit him nearly as well; I liked him a lot, and felt quite comfortable around him, but Activation just didn't make sense.

But when I re-typed as ENFp, and looked at my relationships from the ENFp perspective, suddenly it all made sense.

If a person is confused about the theory, being self-typed a certain way, then that probably means they are mis-typed. If the theory makes perfect (or at least near-perfect) sense when applied to RL people and relations, then they are probably typed correctly.

[pianosinger]

I think that part of the problem is that I don't know how I am in relation to other people, because I'm so socially isolated. The one family member I'm close to claims that their personality changes all the time, and that they don't believe that people can be categorized... so I can't type them.

I feel as though I'm just a ghost... I only exist in the shadows of the reality everyone else inhabits. People are only aware of me in a negative or indifferent way.

I believe that it might be impossible to determine your type in a state of relative social isolation, which is what I've been trying to do for the past 5 years without success.

Well, all that ^ certainly would make it more challenging.

So go on then! Put yourself out there. Make a friend. Or at least an acquaintance with whom you can manage to spend a good deal of time being yourselves-- even if you end up being Conflictors