My interaction with dual is stressful - is this normal?

[slownumbers]

Okay, as I mentioned in another post, I met my first dual that I know of a few months ago. Although I really like her, I was thinking back on our interactions and remembering that some of our interactions were quite stressful after the fact. Meaning, after I spent time with her, I would worry that I did or said the wrong thing, and felt on edge about it, or down about myself afterward. Also I noticed that she would frustrate me on multiple occasions.

Is this common for dual interaction in the beginning, or something unrelated to socionics?

[Lobo]

I don't see how anybody here can tell you if it's normal or not... But, I can tell you that it's happened to me.

[slownumbers]

I don't see how anybody here can tell you if it's normal or not... But, I can tell you that it's happened to me.

Interesting... Did it stay that way, or get less stressful over time? Oh and I guess instead of asking if its "normal" I should ask if its "common".

[Creepy-Korpsey]

That's related to introversion, and even more to self esteem, to confidence, and particularly to the general uncertainty of hopes matching with realities in interpersonal affairs.

[Trevor]

It can happen.

[Lobo]

Interesting... Did it stay that way, or get less stressful over time? Oh and I guess instead of asking if its "normal" I should ask if its "common".

Over time they would cause me less stress. However, I've been noticing how I gradually have lost interest in LSEs as that has happened... It's like the attraction has lessened considerable with STs. I do have a couple of good LSE friends, but idk if I'd be interested later in starting anew with another. To me it requires work that I'm not willing to put out anymore.

What Korpsey said is also true with one particular interaction with an LSE.

[Beautiful sky]

Okay, as I mentioned in another post, I met my first dual that I know of a few months ago. Although I really like her, I was thinking back on our interactions and remembering that some of our interactions were quite stressful after the fact. Meaning, after I spent time with her, I would worry that I did or said the wrong thing, and felt on edge about it, or down about myself afterward. Also I noticed that she would frustrate me on multiple occasions.

Is this common for dual interaction in the beginning, or something unrelated to socionics?

Usually no. You should be as verbally expressive as you can. If she's your dual, she'll agree with you or understand you and no matter how hard you try you won't be able to force conflict in. If you do create conflict (like yelling matches) than she's not your dual.

[Creepy-male]

^Is that even true for Beta dual pairs?

Duality gets more comfortable over time. It's quite possible to experience a lot of friction as you learn your dual's language.

[Beautiful sky]

There were a few times I've seen duals (usually at the beginning stage) try to compete and one up each other, but usually, if they don't leave and stick around within a few months they really love each other because of this whole thing that if you don't have a dual while growing up, you yourself try to assume your dual's role in your own mind (like a psychological coping mechanism). Because of this, you have a hard time relinquishing control and recognizing that your dual is naturally good at the thing that stresses you out. Once the roles/tasks are divided within the dual pairing, the relationship is very wonderful.

[shapeofthings]

I would like to hear about this as well. If anyone has some Dual stories to share, please do. Especially about the early stages.

And eh, me and my Dual argue a lot. And then we move on. There's lot of friction, charge. Always something going on, very dynamic, not static at all. I didn't have Duals around growing up, and we definately find it hard to communicate sometimes. It's not boring, to say the least.

Makes no rational sense, why we love each other so much, and why just being in his space energizes, soothes and balances me so much.

I wonder if there's this place that we'll 'reach' or is our relationship going to be like this for as long as it lasts. Then again, after each time and each frustration, I feel closer to him, and we do seem to develop our understanding of each other in the process. I feel like I'm growing, as an individual, a lot in this relationship.

And slownumbers, you shouldn't worry about what is normal. I do best with mine when I just follow my Ni, I've never been as accurate about which course of action to take with a person as I am with him (or maybe I have, but he responds to it in a way that shows me immediately I was correct, and that strengthens my trust on mi Ni). When I start to doubt myself, that's were it all seems to be going to ARSE. The more carefree I am the better my Dual always responds: funny but the more you are yourself the better. So stop doubting yourself I know been there / still there but TRUST ME. The more naturally YOU you are, the better. So just follow your guts and do and say what you feel like doing/saying. Your dual won't judge you.

Maybe the whole Duality relationship is just that. Moving from that getting to know your Dual phase (that can be plenty stressfull and depending on your own maturity, experience with duals, and lotsa other stuff too mebbe) and realizing wow this person really fucking likes you just-as-you-are, meaning you can literally drop all your usual boundaries and stuff to trash you've learnt so well to do during the course of your socialization. We're not naturally programmed to be used to that level of acceptance and expression of our truest selves because we have to keep so much away starting from our most everyday encounters.

But that's just the theory, anyway.

[Ezra]

Weird. It shouldn't be stressful, it should be easy & the interactions should flow naturally. I've never even had an argument with a Dual. If we have a disagreement we can usually talk it out in a way that we both can see each others perspectives. They may lecture on subjects such as strength, drive, & confidence, but that sort of thing helps me become stronger, if anything. Eh, maybe I'm just lucky.

I remember talking to a SLE poster through PM who said the SLE - IEI dynamic was a bit difficult in the beginning. Strangely, I've never had experience with that. I think you all over analyze these things.

It does happen.

I think you're just lucky.

[Krig the Viking]

There were a few times I've seen duals (usually at the beginning stage) try to compete and one up each other, but usually, if they don't leave and stick around within a few months they really love each other because of this whole thing that if you don't have a dual while growing up, you yourself try to assume your dual's role in your own mind (like a psychological coping mechanism). Because of this, you have a hard time relinquishing control and recognizing that your dual is naturally good at the thing that stresses you out. Once the roles/tasks are divided within the dual pairing, the relationship is very wonderful.

Awesome. I agree. Your understanding of socionics has really grown deeper since you got here, Maritsa.

Maybe the whole Duality relationship is just that. Moving from that getting to know your Dual phase (that can be plenty stressfull and depending on your own maturity, experience with duals, and lotsa other stuff too mebbe) and realizing wow this person really fucking likes you just-as-you-are, meaning you can literally drop all your usual boundaries and stuff to trash you've learnt so well to do during the course of your socialization. We're not naturally programmed to be used to that level of acceptance and expression of our truest selves because we have to keep so much away starting from our most everyday encounters.

But that's just the theory, anyway.

I think you're on to something there. For undualized people, it's extremely strange to find someone with whom you don't have to pretend, because most of us have forgotten how to not pretend.

[buckland]

Awesome. I agree. Your understanding of socionics has really grown deeper since you got here, Maritsa.

With the number of posts she's got, she's statistically bound to bump into something true every once in a while.

[nanashi]

There were a few times I've seen duals (usually at the beginning stage) try to compete and one up each other, but usually, if they don't leave and stick around within a few months they really love each other because of this whole thing that if you don't have a dual while growing up, you yourself try to assume your dual's role in your own mind (like a psychological coping mechanism). Because of this, you have a hard time relinquishing control and recognizing that your dual is naturally good at the thing that stresses you out. Once the roles/tasks are divided within the dual pairing, the relationship is very wonderful.

Aestrivex, I wonder if you and I have done this? I know I'm 5w6 sx/so and INTp-Te, but occasionally I confuse people, and once in a blue moon get weirded out at seeing myself, because I sometimes assume SEE-Fi 7w8 behavior. I just saw the need for SEE-ness when I was little. And it's weird because I'm sometimes enjoying my new dual but chameleon as them, too, at first.

[lemontrees]

There were a few times I've seen duals (usually at the beginning stage) try to compete and one up each other

My duals have tried to tell me how to cook things, since they're "clever" and have "mastered" the best way (......)

The other day an ILE told me that the color I wanted to paint my dresser was "gaudy" and that I should use a "stain rather than a paint." He told me that he knew better because he had studied color theory.

[fen]

My duals have tried to tell me how to cook things, since they're "clever" and have "mastered" the best way (......)

The other day an ILE told me that the color I wanted to paint my dresser was "gaudy" and that I should use a "stain rather than a paint." He told me that he knew better because he had studied color theory.

That kinda stuff drives me crazy. :S

[blackburry]

My duals have tried to tell me how to cook things, since they're "clever" and have "mastered" the best way (......)

The other day an ILE told me that the color I wanted to paint my dresser was "gaudy" and that I should use a "stain rather than a paint." He told me that he knew better because he had studied color theory.

AGHHH LIEs do this to me alllllll the time. but so does my mom. but she sucks at a lot of things though she tries so hard.
LIE friend irl thinks he's perfect and has mastered everything. so wha? I like to try things out for myself... sure, the new dish I made was DISGUSTING. i just won't make it again.

[Beautiful sky]

My duals have tried to tell me how to cook things, since they're "clever" and have "mastered" the best way (......)

The other day an ILE told me that the color I wanted to paint my dresser was "gaudy" and that I should use a "stain rather than a paint." He told me that he knew better because he had studied color theory.

Ne, Ne, Ne.......

I try telling an LSE to do something [fill in a number of things], then I get a wall of "no" then followed by thinking then followed by trying it themselves and then by liking what I asked them to do in the first place; results could have been achieved much more efficiently and conserved time HAD THEY DONE IT THE WAY I SUGGESTED IN THE FIRST PLACE. *but* try saying that to an LSE!!!! Response is "you're controlling."

Me: *********DIES************

[Exodus]

Okay, as I mentioned in another post, I met my first dual that I know of a few months ago. Although I really like her, I was thinking back on our interactions and remembering that some of our interactions were quite stressful after the fact. Meaning, after I spent time with her, I would worry that I did or said the wrong thing, and felt on edge about it, or down about myself afterward. Also I noticed that she would frustrate me on multiple occasions.

Is this common for dual interaction in the beginning, or something unrelated to socionics?

ok, I'm not one to argue that Duality is some perfect kind of relationship, but this seems highly unlikely.

[Suz]

I agree with a lot of what's already been said here in this thread.

I've come to realize that one of the big tests of whether someone is a dual (or fellow quadra-member for that matter) is how comfortable vs neurotic do they make you feel. If you feel comfy with a particular person, there are, on some subconscious level, shared socionic values. If you feel tense, nervous, judged, things always coming across the wrong way both ways, even though both are approaching each other with a neutral to good intent, suspect conflict or supervision. A distinction to make in assessing this, though, is do you feel nervous/judged because of some outside reasons like there are rumors the person is mean/intense/judgy/crazy or, say, self-criticism because of special feelings like a crush (as a few people have already mentioned)? What I mentioned does not apply then. This is something you will need to sort out via introspection.

The thing with conflictors is they can seem like your duals, until you realize they arent (they are your duals' quasi-identicals). With conflict, you can actually get along if you keep interaction to a minimum and dont take what your conflictor says too much too heart. Dont plan on getting close with your conflictor though because that is when it can become painful. To illustrate this a bit, one of my bosses (I have a bunch of bosses right now) is likely an LSI. Right off the bat when i started having exposure to this boss, I just felt this inexplicable need to cower and avoid interaction. I felt highly intimidated. I felt like everything i did was met with haughty disapproval and that my contributions were worthless. As a result i kept interaction to as minimum as I could. I could have sworn this guy hated my work. Well, turns out he actually gave me a glowing eval. I suspect the positive view was in part influenced by this LSI's right hand person, who I suspect is an LSE. LSE thinks very highly of me and values me a lot. Now that I know the LSI thinks well of me, it feels a little better working with him, but he still will often say things that, to me, seem totally hurtful, but just being aware that he is my conflictor I think to myself that he likely didn't mean it the way I took it. He also wants me to work more closely with him next year but I know that will be bad news (seeing how he slave-drives his current minion - not sure what type she is, ESE maybe). No freaking way. Even though I like him. That's how it is with conflictors. You dont mesh well and cringe at each other but keep saying to yourself, "he/she means well", "he/she didn't mean it that way", etc. This is why conflict leads to neurosis but isn't actually outright literal "CONFLICT" and isn't the most explosive of intertypes. You tend to sense the need to keep your distance from both sides.

Supervision can be, for some reason I cant explain, like a relationship trap; many bad marriages or failed friendships turn out to be some variety of supervision, which means they did like each other enough to fall in love/get married or become good friends in the first place.The badness/misunderstanding doesn't manifest until later. In conflict the sensation it's like right off the bat, and you know to watch out.

Duality, or activity or identity for that matter, when juxtaposed with conflictor relationships, the difference is really noticeable. You gravitate to these people, because you feel "safe". You know they like you, without needing an eval to tell you that. You dont get misunderstood. Things you say dont get misconstrued. You dont wonder why they made a certain comment. You value what they provide to you. They value you. You just feel free to say what you want to say. In conflict you sense your comment was unwelcome or stupid right away. In supervision you may feel free to be yourself at first but turns out deep down your supervisor was judging you negatively the whole time; then you lose trust in them, and that's a HORRIBLE feeling.

I recently had an excellent experience with an LSE boss for a month (activity). She, however, had a reputation of being "intense", "stern," and "particular" and "forcing" her minions to work long hours" with her, so I went into this stint a bit nervous, expecting the worst. However, i quickly realized that we were particular in the same way, so there was no friction there, and she was basically a teaching machine, so i actually didn't mind the long hours... I'd spend more time working with her if i could--miss her already! (I did get exhausted physically and didn't sleep a whole lot that month though). At first, i could tell she was a bit skeptical (probably because so many people working for her just didn't meet her expectations), but when both of us realized we were likeminded and had similar work standards in mind, it just became fun, and tbh relaxing, working with her. We would laugh, joke, confide in each other. When I was having a bad day or stressed about something, she would walk in a give me a hug or be like "are you ok?". And then the all-important question... "did you eat?". She's like 20-30 years older than me and knows 1000x more than me, but instead of feeling intimidated, it just totally felt like we were friends. Easy. Though, as is the case with activity relations, a bit exhausting.

[FoxOnStilts]

I don't think you're stressed because it's your dual. You're stressed because it's someone you met and want to impress/want to like you, so you overthink and worry about it. It's human to do so. Whether or not this person is your dual is irrelevant to that.

[betterthan]

If you think you can't fight, get pissed off or stressed with your dual, you need to get out of the socionics bubble!

[thePirate]

If you think you can't fight, get pissed off or stressed with your dual, you need to get out of the socionics bubble!

/thread

[Korpsy Knievel]

*cough*

[Absurd]

Hmm, wonder why interactions go so smoothly between duals on this forum.

[aisa]

Hmm, wonder why interactions go so smoothly between duals on this forum.

cause it's a forum and no one needs to take the trash out
(yeah, even SEIs get tired of the mundane, despite whatever the stereotypes say about dust-cleaning smiley fairies awaiting to pass the newspaper and slippers to their SO)

@Maritsa - the number of times that I asked my SO to do sth a certain way and he just needed to keep experimenting... and in the end he did it my way anyway... But. I actually recently heard him say - "hmm I might actually do this your way right away, cause I guess you know what you're saying" (FINALLY! lol )

[Absurd]

cause it's a forum and no one needs to take the trash out

I wasn't serious and I am perfectly capable with the latter. Killing people as well.

[Azure Flame]

I have a dual who doesn't STFU. I hate her and she is therefore a stupid bitch.

[Sol]

Duality is only one of important traits for good relations. So to have not perfect relations with any human is common. Relations can be improved with efforts, where duality allows to make lesser of them for good result.

Also it's often wrong types, with today typing methods. An average chance to identify correctly IR ~20%. Between dual and superego/conflictor the difference is not so huge. To have significant and stable doubts in yourself in communications, to feel badly after - the trait common for not good IR.

[blackburry]

^ on unrelated note.. I broke his faucet by accident. He was so pissed and couldn't wrap his head around that I accidentally broke it...somehow, (i don't even know how.. didn't do anything spectacular to it, just pushed it up for on, down for off.) he was convinced I did it on purpose... hurt my feelings. And I cried. like a useless puddle. I tried to fix it but I was kind of just in the way. I did pay for parts. Thank goodness he was able to fix it. and the damn thing turned out to be really really old and needed replacing anyways.

I....have a a tendency to not be perfect a lot of the time. and I might zone out for a few moments and break something. burn something. spill something. miss my exit. doesn't happen all the time. but enough.

[Azure Flame]

^ on unrelated note.. I broke his faucet by accident. He was so pissed and couldn't wrap his head around that I accidentally broke it...somehow, (i don't even know how.. didn't do anything spectacular to it, just pushed it up for on, down for off.) he was convinced I did it on purpose... hurt my feelings. And I cried. like a useless puddle. I tried to fix it but I was kind of just in the way. I did pay for parts. Thank goodness he was able to fix it. and the damn thing turned out to be really really old and needed replacing anyways.

I....have a a tendency to not be perfect a lot of the time. and I might zone out for a few moments and break something. burn something. spill something. miss my exit. doesn't happen all the time. but enough.

Get back in the kitchen and quit breaking shit

[Leader]

IEI are insane (especially the women due to estrogen) on the inside, it gets worse as they get older.

[Beautiful sky]

IEI are insane (especially the women due to estrogen) on the inside, it gets worse as they get older.

Some people get worse as they get older, regardless of their type; but, I've discovered that people come to know their best self just before their exist to life.

[Leader]

Some people get worse as they get older, regardless of their type; but, I've discovered that people come to know their best self just before their exist to life.

Come to know there best self just before their exist to life?

[Beautiful sky]

Come to know there best self just before their exist to life?

Yeah, I've seen it happen many times; my SLE friend, a few months before he had a massive heart attack was speaking to me about his mistakes with women he's made in life; he was unshakable optimistic that he was going to build himself up to being a strong man again and find what he NOW knew was exactly the type of woman who was the right match for him; I asked him to describe the woman and him never having known any type in socionics, began to describe the characteristics of his duals, in such vivid detail that it left me at shock because I had never since, in any conversation with another human being known anyone who know exactly what would in another person substitute their selves; it was a beautiful enlightened moment but a sad one too because he left shortly after. I hope his spirit, energy, transforms into another SLE's heart. He was a wonderful friend.

[blackburry]

I hope his spirit, energy, transforms into another SLE's heart. He was a wonderful friend.

So that's what happens when we die?



ESIs of the world. beware..

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

[sarinana]

Has anybody experienced that?
I just got out of a relationship with my "dual" and well it was far away from perfect to say the least.

[blackburry]

Never. I'm in love with each and every one of my duals. It's like a wonderland.










(I'm kidding). (and yes, naturally).

[sarinana]

On the other note I got an LSI friend of a different subtype whose past life experiences were more similar to mine and we get on just great. Makes you wonder...