the delta NFs and foul language

[ashlesha]

i.e. not ALL.

i understand, but thats not the point. i'm sure a "good chunk" of SLEs are opposed to vulgarity, as well. the thread is baseless, imo. frankly, i think the entire point is for ryu to further solidify his conception of delta NFs as ideal stepford wives, which is a characterization i resent, and since he is the most prominent self-typed LSE on this forum, his characterization of delta NFs holds some weight, which is unfortunate because it is so patronizing and wrong.

[Suz]

i understand, but thats not the point. i'm sure a "good chunk" of SLEs are opposed to vulgarity, as well. the thread is baseless, imo. frankly, i think the entire point is for ryu to further solidify his conception of delta NFs as ideal stepford wives, which is a characterization i resent, and since he is the most prominent self-typed LSE on this forum, his characterization of delta NFs holds some weight, which is unfortunate because it is so patronizing and wrong.

I never thought ryu thought of delta NFs as stepford wives. In fact, i dont think ryu would want a "stepford wife".

Oh and ime, betas enjoy foul language very much (this isn't about vulgarity). As do gammas. As per Ashton for example, he sees bad language as a mark of sincerity

though i do agree with pianosinger in that upbringing does influence this to an extent. My mom (ESE) always looked down upon others swearing. however she herself does swear (in russian) when she gets mad or annoyed or hurt at someone (the swearing is mild though). Something i've never had the desire to emulate, tbh.

[ashlesha]

I never thought ryu thought of delta NFs as stepford wives. In fact, i dont think ryu would want a "stepford wife".

Oh and ime, betas enjoy foul language very much (this isn't about vulgarity). As do gammas. As per Ashton for example, he sees bad language as a mark of sincerity

ok, then we have different insights into ryu's motivations (i'm sure he would say he doesn't want a stepford wife, even if his posting history tells a different story) and very different interpretations of how quadra values manifest. if you're satisfied with the stereotype of the submissive and "prissy" delta NF, then fine. i personally have a problem with it, and i'm especially bothered by it being perpetuated by someone who types LSE.

[Suz]

ok, then we have different insights into ryu's motivations (i'm sure he would say he doesn't want a stepford wife, even if his posting history tells a different story) and very different interpretations of how quadra values manifest. if you're satisfied with the stereotype of the submissive and "prissy" delta NF, then fine. i personally have a problem with it, and i'm especially bothered by it being perpetuated by someone who types LSE.

I dont know, i've chatted quite extensively with Ryu over AIM and i didn't get the impression that he's looking for someone who is submissive at all. In fact, he shared with me some things that make it clear he actually doesn't like it when someone is acting submissive. Also, prissy =/= submissive. Prissy on the contrary is a descriptor of snobbishness, which wouldnt' be out of character for a member of an aristocratic quadra. I admit, i can come across a bit snobby/prissy to certain people, especially if they feel inferior to me (probably for good reason).

I'm not really sure where you got the thoughts you expressed, but I dont think delta NFs represent submissiveness in the least, in fact ime we are the some of the least likely members of the socion to be ok with submissiveness (instant turn off to me). I never saw this stereotype as being a delta NF descriptor and i'm not sure where you got that association from. Instead, my stereotyping of submissiveness belongs to the "victim" types: IEI, ILI, EIE, LIE (the introverts> the extroverts). Of course my stereotype could be wrong, so please correct me, anyone, if so.

[ashlesha]

I dont know, i've chatted quite extensively with Ryu over AIM and i didn't get the impression that he's looking for someone who is submissive at all. In fact, he shared with me some things that make it clear he actually doesn't like it when someone is acting submissive. Also, prissy =/= submissive. Prissy on the contrary is a descriptor of snobbishness, which wouldnt' be out of character for a member of an aristocratic quadra. I admit, i can come across a bit snobby/prissy to certain people, especially if they feel inferior to me (probably for good reason).

I'm not really sure where you got the thoughts you expressed, but I dont think delta NFs represent submissiveness in the least, in fact ime we are the some of the least likely members of the socion to be ok with submissiveness (instant turn off to me). I never saw this stereotype as being a delta NF descriptor and i'm not sure where you got that association from. Instead, my stereotyping of submissiveness belongs to the "victim" types: IEI, ILI, EIE, LIE (the introverts> the extroverts). Of course my stereotype could be wrong, so please correct me, anyone, if so.

the only thing i can concede here is that maybe i'd have a different impression of ryu if i knew him as well as you do. other than that, we seem to be on completely different pages and i'm not really sure where to start.

um, as for swearing...i swear sometimes, as does almost everyone i know. i feel more comfortable in environments where i know it won't be frowned upon if i let a curse word slip.

[Suz]

the only thing i can concede here is that maybe i'd have a different impression of ryu if i knew him as well as you do. other than that, we seem to be on completely different pages and i'm not really sure where to start.

yeah i'm not sure why or how that happened...

um, as for swearing...i swear sometimes, as does almost everyone i know. i feel more comfortable in environments where i know it won't be frowned upon if i let a curse word slip.

LOL sounds like passing gas...

[ashlesha]

LOL sounds like passing gas...

lol, never. as a delta NF lady, there are certain bodily functions i am incapable of.

[Simon Ssmall]

There is no such thing as MILD swearing in russian.

[Suz]

There is no such thing as MILD swearing in russian.

LOL!!!

Well my mom was criticizing a friend of hers for using really bad BAD BAD words in her presence, and was saying that even though she swears, she would never use such words.

It's interesting the distinction between myself and her where I choose not to swear, but wont bother criticizing someone for swearing in my presence (not very bothered by it, and sometimes find it funny even), whereas she swears occasionally but is very vocal about voicing her disapproval of others swearing in her presence.

[stray]

i understand, but thats not the point. i'm sure a "good chunk" of SLEs are opposed to vulgarity, as well. the thread is baseless, imo. frankly, i think the entire point is for ryu to further solidify his conception of delta NFs as ideal stepford wives, which is a characterization i resent, and since he is the most prominent self-typed LSE on this forum, his characterization of delta NFs holds some weight, which is unfortunate because it is so patronizing and wrong.

Yeah, I'm not a female, but it is patronizing in an indirect way. Not sure what it has to do with his type though. From a distance, I can see that that other Te posters.. For example, DeAnte, had pretty well rounded perceptions and could make decent lists type of examples for Delta NFs (not that they were necessarily right.. but at least he tried). Same with Ashton. Same with INTps.

[Absurd]

Show me those lists, for I love lists and live by the code of lists.

[stray]

Show me those lists, for I love lists and live by the code of lists.

Not even sure if Ashton runs that socionix site (thought he did).

http://gallery.socionix.com/Delta/

I ran across DeAnte's list on wikisocion

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...r:DeAnte#Delta


Now before somebody gets upset that some vulgar, ill mannered clown like Olivia Munn is ENFp (), all I'm saying is that at least those posters try. Try is a good thing. Better than being stuck in some boyhood fantasy of prissy housewives.

[Galen]

Now before somebody gets upset that some vulgar, ill mannered clown like Olivia Munn is ENFp (), all I'm saying is that at least those posters try. Try is a good thing. Better than being stuck in some boyhood fantasy of prissy housewives.

Olivia Munn is not vulgar or ill-mannered
Definitely ENFp though, no objections to that.

[stray]

Olivia Munn is not vulgar or ill-mannered
Definitely ENFp though, no objections to that.

Just a little tongue in cheek there. If she is ill-mannered, she's ill-mannered in a funny way. I'm not exactly like her myself, but this thing with Deltas NFs being martyr like, prissy people is beyond stupid. There's no other word for it. There's probably close to a billion Deltas in the world (if we were to believe there is such a thing as "Delta"). You don't need to be a T type to realize it's illogical and not even close to the realm of possibility that everyone could fall in place so closely with their behavior. Cognitive theory is not about behavior.

Blah blah blah. It's probably all a joke on his part. Here's hoping at least.

Anyways, Here's an example of "ill mannered" Olivia. link

There is some part of your persona that is tough. And I mean, like, someone who seems like they’ve always had to fight. And it comes across in different ways. For one thing, you cuss a lot. And I wondered where that came from.

It sounds better. Nothing says "bitch" like "bitch." "Cunt" is a great word. Underused and overanalyzed.

You can see the defensiveness in other ways, too, though. Like there is a post on your blog after the Maxim cover shoot where you say, " If you have any problems with me in this spread, I have two things to say to you: 1. Just don’t look. And 2. You sound like you just need a good fuck."

Because at that time I was in my last relationship [with "Star Trek" actor Chris Pine], and I was fed up with comments on the blogs, when girls I’d never met were like, she’s only dating him because he’s a movie star. And I really still believe that anybody who's sitting there judging my relationship does need to get the shit fucked out of them.

[ashlesha]

straytk! i am so glad you are seeing the same thing i am and i'm not just nuts, lol. i'm happy you're back posting because i've felt more normal when you're here.

i was thinking about possible links between delta NFs and profanity and the only thing i could think of was this idea of Fi not wanting to offend. but for me, with my family and the environment around me, it would be considered somewhat offensive to almost everyone i know irl to wrinkle your nose every time the "f word" is used or to take a derisive attitude towards curse words. so assuming there *is* a link, my stance would still be alligned with it. the only other link i can think of is Se polr (edit- er, weak/unvalued Se since we're talking about both delta NFs), but eh...i can't bring myself to seriously entertain the idea of Se having anything to do with swear words.