The Problem with Socionics

[maze]

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[maze]

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[maze]

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[science as magic]

(reminds himself not to go all theorhetical) Intj forum members have made note of how their awareness alters under the effects of certain medications. I was thinking of variances in environment like that. Not things like "being raised in a loving family" or something but rather as being influenced by (insert specific physical interactions that occured in the specific "loving family" context so that the variances in other persons with similar experience can be noted and the different effects catalogued)

[maze]

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[science as magic]

you obviously saw something in me that deterred you from engaging with me in your natural theoretical ways....I think.

not at all. people in general tend to disregard the observations of those that are too "pie in the sky"-ish (perhaps arbitrary or non-related to typical associative material would be a better choice of words. i prefer to think of it as a form of xenophobia. a sort of infamiliarity with the jargon involved that breeds contempt). i do not view myself as speaking directly to you but to whomever should read my posts.

[maze]

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[science as magic]

GRACIAS

[maze]

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[flower]

It literally makes me cringe to follow this conversation. Socionics is a theory that still lacks a solid empirical foundation. It's something to have fun with, to perhaps analyze miscommunication between people and to understand to some extent why you feel more drawn to certain people than others. And people, that's it. No more can come out of it at this point. To use type in determination of your talents is a dangerous and pointless thing to do because a) we can never know for sure if we have typed ourselves correctly and b) belief is a powerful thing. You realize you might have some sort of PoLR and even if you didn't have it before, now you have it because *gasp* some random person says you do.

Seriously, people, don't do this. It limits you beyond belief. Even if it is true that we have PoLRs, there surely must be exceptions to the rule and don't forget that people have life histories.

Beware of a bunch of Socionics zombies muttering "need my dual, can't think logically, have no empathy, am a shallow bitch."

I believe in socionics, I have known about it for a long time and have seen many parts of it in real life, even though it doesent of course predict everything, far from it, it just tend to get the general jist most of the time.

I do think we have POLR's and other weaknesses, and I dont think there is anything wrong with acknowledging them, however the thing to watch out for is not letting something become a self fulfilling prophecy, if a supposed weakness dosent exist in practice, or you have found adequate ways of dealing with something or strengthened that weakness etc

The idea of only looking for your dual is dangerous in my opinion, although the relationship may have the potential to be the most fulfilling, its only potential, and depending on the individuals involved it may not be as good as the the oportunities someone may have let pass them with other types who may be more compatible due to non-socionic reasons.

[snowyc]

In my universe, with another tool like Socionics I can view all relationships in terms of a good-for-me/bad-for-me ratio.

I would also say that from my NT (core) temperament i view relationships as investments that somehow fits into the grand strategy of my life. As an INTj particularly, I like to think that everyone serves some useful purpose due to a 'figure things* out' reflective nature (Ti) coupled with a 'what is your potential' wonder (Ne).

*which can include people amongst other things. Once I have attained an understanding my mind is usually at rest.

[Kristiina]

In my universe, with another tool like Socionics I can view all relationships in terms of a good-for-me/bad-for-me ratio.

I would also say that from my NT (core) temperament i view relationships as investments that somehow fits into the grand strategy of my life. As an INTj particularly, I like to think that everyone serves some useful purpose due to a 'figure things* out' reflective nature (Ti) coupled with a 'what is your potential' wonder (Ne).

*which can include people amongst other things. Once I have attained an understanding my mind is usually at rest.

wow, cool
That's the kind of mindset that made me sure of being INTj for so long. I can totally agree with you. For me it's more about my trying to be the most effective (Te) by finding out where certain time-lines would take me (Ni). Achieving Te through the use of Ni. I need realistic information about people in general to see where my future takes me, because people have an enormous effect on the world. :wink:

[snowyc]

In my view, an ENTj can equate to an extroverted marketing genius e.g. Bill Gates (Microsoft) with QDOS that started it all (and Win98 - see short video clip) whilst an INTj can equate to an introverted marketing genuis e.g. Steve Jobs (Apple) with IPODs and a (superior?) MacOS that nobody uses - now that's genius - see marketing video.

Hmm... difference of xNTj's in a nutshell:
Extroverted ~ Think Mass-Market, Introverted ~ Think Niche-Market and get wealthy in two distinct ways, perhaps?

[FDG]

In my view, an ENTj can equate to an extroverted marketing genius e.g. Bill Gates (Microsoft) with QDOS that started it all (and Win98 - see short video clip) whilst an INTj can equate to an introverted marketing genuis e.g. Steve Jobs (Apple) with IPODs and a (superior?) MacOS that nobody uses - now that's genius - see marketing video.

Hmm... difference of xNTj's in a nutshell:
Extroverted ~ Think Mass-Market, Introverted ~ Think Niche-Market and get wealthy in two distinct ways, perhaps?

Bill Gates - INTp Te subtype

Steve Jobs - ENTp

[Sarah]

Bill Gates - INTp Te subtype