1. Read about "Hidden Agenda" of XLEs - how Fe Mobilizing works, maybe it's related:
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...averted_Ethics
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...overted_ethics
I've read all the descriptions, many many times. My problem is that I always end up relating to every description! (except for Se dominant ones) I can never figure out which descriptions I identify with more.
Btw, did you read the
socionics.com description? Here's one detail:
yup
Regarding people who say "yeah, yeah..." but don't actually understand, it is a problem to me too. It basically became a reflex to me to ask very often "got it?", "you know?". But I don't usually have this problem with Alphas! That's because they respect their interlocutor and listen, they don't just *talk*, but *say* something.
My boyfriend (I'm almost positive) is in the same quadra as me, so that would make him alpha (If I am, indeed, alpha, which I most likely am). He listens to my ideas, and will usually say something like, "so it's like, blah blah blah..." in order to confirm that he understood what I am saying. Aside from him, I can think of maybe 2 other people I have been friends with who really listened to my ideas (one was some kind of Ne ego - very awkward relationship). My closest female friend (who I think is beta) will usually give me a high pitched, "Hmmmmmm." which tells me that she doesn't give two shits. lol. so I usually stick to gossiping with her.
I have this inclination to tell uncommon things and I'm bothered when people think I'm doing it just for entertainment - also the ones who claim that ILEs (also me) have crazy ideas because they want to be "crazy" (eccentric), this is ridiculous, they have interest in those ideas because they feel that there is something about them or they reveal new aspects of reality, they'd not be so assertive pursuing them if they had no real potential but were "just for fun".
Hmm.. sometimes I like trying new ideas just to see what will happen, and what it will be like. When talking about new ideas that relate to how people's mind work (sociology, psychology, etc), I do this because I want people to have a better understanding of why they do things, and maybe a new world view. But when I'm trying new ideas like a new kind of photography, or new kind of art, I do this because I am excited about seeing the result, just because it's fun to try new things! So basically what I'm saying is: when I'm talking about something new, it's to show people something new. when I'm trying (practicing) something new, it's (basically) for entertainment.
Yes, maybe being a "crackpot" is probably the charm of ILEs, though claiming that they do what they do is intentional, with the purpose to shock or impress is wrong. I personally hate sensationalism, fanciness for the sake of fanciness, it disgusts me when I see people who wear all sorts of "weird" hats, eyeglasses or any accessory that is intended to make them appear "crazy", "dark", "artist", "geek/hacker", "underground", "oriental" and so on - it's all a fake, even if otherwise I relate to some of these categories.
this last part sounds like something I would have written. I can't stand it either. I remember my first day in junior english class, my teacher had said something like, (and this was related to something she was talking about previously) "...and some people just want to be different for the sake of being different, don't they?" and then she looked at me. BITCH. See, I had gotten my hair cut in a pixie (boy cut) style that fall. Because I liked it, because I thought it looked good! and here she was, deciding that I did it to be different??? WTF!
I was really excited to see that you relate to similar principles,
lemon, especially when you said that you're an artist but don't call yourself an artist - how many times I said similar things to people...
Yes! I find that usually when people call themselves artists, they end up being that "wears-weird-clothing-for-the-sake-of-wearing-weird-clothing" type you mentioned above. Bleh!
Haha, yeah! I again identify with something of yours. I use(d) to do that often, it's so fun! Especially pwn'ing Irrationals, though I admit that I may get slightly angry/paranoid if I'm pwn'ed too much myself, esp when they're the same quadra and appear to have conspired against me though they did actually not, LOL!
as long as I can tell they're kidding, I don't mind it. though some people say they can't tell when I'm being sarcastic or not when joking with them.
What do you mean by "I'd like to be able"? - do you have only serious friends?
Oh, I have a couple of merry friends. It's just that I'd like to be able to poke fun at everyone. haha
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Maybe what does not fit with your description considering ILE is being organized. I'm messy and afaik ILEs are messy in general. Indeed I like neatness and structuring my environment (including the files in my computer) but I often end-up in clutter because I'm usually so occupied that I delay sorting things too much. I hate wasting my time to prepare things and clean them up and I prefer if someone else could do them for me.
I don't really like cleaning (does anybody?), but if I don't have my room organized, I feel cluttered, and like I can't find anything I need, which drives me crazy.
No, what I mean was connection principles. For example that:
- positive = 1 = light = full = high = hot = hard = male = odd;
- negative = 0 = dark = empty = low = cold = soft = female = even.
(one could also add the Sun and the Moon, though I'm not usually doing that, LOL!)
And here's a real-life example: there are these
three properties if IAs/IEs, Bodies/Fields, Dynamic/Static and External/Internal, which are fundamental to Socionics. So far so good, but most people I know ignore what is obvious to me, that Bodies, Dynamic and External are the same side/partition of different dichotomies, as Fields, Static and Internal are the other. They can tell, for instance, that Serious=Decisive and Merry=Judicious, because in the first case the IEs are either Bodies+External or Fields+Internal, while the second are the other combination. What they can't understand is actually the similarities between Rational/Irrational and these, Rational (Bodies+Dynamic or Fields+Static) is similar to Serious,Decisive, while Irrational with Merry,Judicious.
I don't think I know well enough what those terms mean to understand what you're talking about (I hate to be on the "what is this ENTp talking about" side of the conversation, but... lol). So far, with socionics, I've tried to stick to the basic principals, mainly due to the fact that as it gets more complicated, I don't know how trustable the information is, I don't identify the ideas in real life enough to state my own opinion on whether or not a complicated piece of socionics information is reliable. So basically, what I mean is, "I 'unno lol"
Similarily, people know about +/- and the Aristocratic/Democratic natures of quadras, but they fail to observe that the "Rational" nature of the Aristocratic quadras (+ Judging/- Perceiving) is given by the concordance between the Externality of the first and second function (in fact each two functions in a block), exactly like how Rationality is given by the concordance between Bodies/Fields and Dynamic/Static. The opposite are Democratic, which are similar to the Irrational functions. This is in fact how I actually recognized the +/- dichotomy, which I initially denied, as no one had justification for it, while the descriptions were vague and could not be observed empirically.
Note that I disagree with the opinions of some users that for instance "Alpha Ti is different than Beta Ti". This is bullshit, all Tis are by definitions the same, that claim is like saying that the policeman's Glock works differently than the thief's Glock
.