Type me? :))

[Beautiful sky]

I don't see how that applies here. What are we supposed to be competing over, other than correctness of imparted information?

------------------------

Tentatively guessing SEI. Lemon, are you male or female? I ask for pronoun reasons.

Competing over who knows more, who is right, who's opinions are more valuable or acknowledgeable, who has more knowledge, who's smarter, funnier, everything. Any time identical work on the same thing there's always room for competition and tension. I simply did not want to perpetuate pointless discussion outside what the thread's purpose was with creating more out of the topic discussions. I suppose you can email me next time if you want to ask things outside thread topics.

[lemon]

So far I think Alpha/Delta.

How about some pictures and/or video for VI/Temperament.

ehhh I don't know. From what I've read on this site, VI doesn't actually work.

Sounds about Fi DS to me. Certainly weak and subconscious Fi. Certainly easy to break off relations when you don't have a good handle on Fi. Typically SEI have a great time with relations and less so for ESE. You don't seem to value Si over Te, resting and enjoying what you want or what makes you feel good over being productive. You've indicated that productivity and needing to do things rather then being lazy is very much a conscious thing for you...hence in the conscious block.

Your level of preference for organization is something that seems to be valued over Fe also and you wanting or being interested in finding relations in college further gets you closer to Delta Te rather then Alpha. If I were to resort to Alpha quad, I would go for ESE, but ESE are really great at joking and you said that you aren't very good at it.

Yeah, I can definitely see Fe role in myself, actually. LSE seems to be a decent typing right now, but we'll see how that goes.

When I first make friends with somebody, I tend to try to be fun/goofy and try to make them laugh a lot.. but it doesn't last long, and I tend to get more serious after that, and just want to talk about stuff... rather than do goofy/crazy Fe stuff. Either this is Fe Auxilerary (2nd ego block), or it's Fe role. But I am leaning towards role, because I'm usually not very confident when using it, and look for lots of praise, when I do.

I don't see how that applies here. What are we supposed to be competing over, other than correctness of imparted information?

------------------------

Tentatively guessing SEI. Lemon, are you male or female? I ask for pronoun reasons.

Female. And why SEI?

[lemon]

lol, yup, that's me.

[Beautiful sky]

Here are some more questions:

1. Do you make or follow routines for yourself? One of my dual cousin's routine is she cuts her hair every 6 weeks and has some service call her to remind her of the date. She's usually very good about following them, of course there are times when emergencies and other matters come up but she's usually really good at that stuff. She's almost ritualistic with them Some other of my duals take their vitamins on a daily basis at a certain time. Te PoLR people can try to strengthen this function by rationalizing that they need to follow their routines. My SEI friend (who is a single mom) tries to but she's not very good with them.
2. Do you offer people advice about what they can do and how they can do things. With LSE, these people are usually close friends and family members.

3. Do you make rules?
4. Are you more likely to see similarities between things or differences?
5. Glass half full or half empty?
6. Are you likely to give considerate gifts to people?
7. Are you emotionally expressive (likes to give hugs)?
8. Do you find yourself contradicting what you say and do?

I have an example with the last question. My dual cousin says "I'm not a touchy feely person"; then turns around and enjoys a really warm hug (usually from me) and never sneers or looks down on that. That's a contradiction, because they ignore RULES, Ti

Do you agree with the statement:

Time is made for discipline.
You should go to work whenever you feel rested, no alarm is needed; when people go to work whenever they wake up they wouldn't need as much coffee and they would be better rested.

[lemon]

Here are some more questions:

1. Do you make or follow routines for yourself? One of my dual cousin's routine is she cuts her hair every 6 weeks and has some service call her to remind her of the date. She's usually very good about following them, of course there are times when emergencies and other matters come up but she's usually really good at that stuff. She's almost ritualistic with them Some other of my duals take their vitamins on a daily basis at a certain time. Te PoLR people can try to strengthen this function by rationalizing that they need to follow their routines. My SEI friend (who is a single mom) tries to but she's not very good with them.
2. Do you offer people advice about what they can do and how they can do things. With LSE, these people are usually close friends and family members.

3. Do you make rules?
4. Are you more likely to see similarities between things or differences?
5. Glass half full or half empty?
6. Are you likely to give considerate gifts to people?

1. I try to have routines... once I move out, I will definitely form some kinds of routines, just because I will get bugged if I don't. As of right now though, I don't even bother forming routines because I don't have enough control over my life, or money (no job yet) to follow them even if I wanted to. I do have routines as far as the things I can control go... There is a certain place for everything in my room... I drink tea every day in the afternoon, I keep all my skiing stuff in one area so I can grab it quickly before I leave... i don't know, stuff like that. I'm pretty bad about following routines as far as doing schoolwork and going to sleep at a certain time though... so I'm definitely not glued to routines. And I don't mind doing things spontaneously.

2. With my mom, I try to, but she never listens.. She's very stubborn/unrealistic. For example, she has a job (a low paying, invaluable job that does not need to be kept), but she does not like it. But she needs to have a job. So I tell her, well, keep the job for now, but apply for other jobs at the same time, and if something better shows up, take that instead. Her response to this suggestion is always something like... "Ahhh not worth it." ???? lol.
With my one close female friend I try to offer similar advice but she will always jokingly decline it (she does not value the practical-advice-giving-function). She will say, "RAHHH no!" half kidding, but really will never listen to me. Example: she will say something like, "I'm always worried that my sister is going to sneak into my room at night and scare me," so I say the obvious, "well why don't you lock your room's door?" to which I hear, "RAAHhh that would make too much sense. No." Stuff like that.
With my boyfriend, I will offer him advice and he will also make the "that makes too much sense, I can't do that" joke, but he will also say, "that's a good idea. I should have thought of that," lol. which is sweet, but he always forgets to actually follow the instructions I give him. haha. But he tries, so at least he values my advice
But yeah, practical advice is one kind of advice I'm good at.

EDIT: I find that, though, in most cases, people get offended by practical advice, because it makes them feel like I'm trying to make them look stupid or something (I don't understand it, usually I'm just trying to help). So I hold back with the advice-giving unless they are family or close friend, like you said.

3. Sometimes. Actually, when i was younger (12?) I remember thinking one day about what would be the perfect rules to have in a house with kids (weird huh?). But then I learned about different personalities and how too many rules can be repressing to some kids so I kind of scratched those. But I do still make some rules... not a lot though. and they are mostly about things I have already mentioned: managing my belongings. I don't know how specific you want me to get.

4. I notice similarities a lot. The first thing I do when I meet someone is think about who they look like who I already know. I usually do this to most people I see anywhere, just because it's interesting to me. I also notice when the layout of a town is similar to the one I live in, and I notice when people talk or act like each other. I notice lots of parallels between things.

5. Ummmm I guess in my mind, I picture it as half empty. Which does follow the optimistic/pessimistic analogy well. I notice negatives easily, but I notice them constructively, because I don't whine about them, I do things to fix/get rid of them. So I don't view my pessimism as a bad thing.

6. I try to. Sometimes I will think of the perfect gift for someone, but it will be too pricey or I just have no way of finding what I'm thinking of. I have a lot more trouble browsing shops for gifts though, because they don't match the ideal I have in my head of what I want to get the person, and I'm always afraid they will be disappointed. If I know someone will appreciate it, I will make them something.

[Beautiful sky]

You are so SOOO LSE

I take practical advice any day. Especially the kind that supports Si, the kind that affects my health and well-being. One of our members, DJ, is also really great at giving Si type of advice on health. I sent him a PM on how much I enjoyed that practical advice.

[lemon]

You are so SOOO LSE

lol okay

[lemon]

You are so SOOO LSE

I take practical advice any day. Especially the kind that supports Si, the kind that affects my health and well-being.

So, the LSEs you know in person, what are they like? Like, how do they act usually? I'm curious

[Beautiful sky]

So, the LSEs you know in person, what are they like? Like, how do they act usually? I'm curious

My cousin is the love of my life. I'll try to tell you all about her. She was very quiet and almost anti-social when she was going to school, had only one friend and for the longest time, she considered herself an introvert until I explained to her that it had nothing to do with either being shy, quiet, reserved, antisocial, or having few friends (just like you). The difference is that one is oriented towards the objective world the other analyzes and subjectifys what little from the outside world they take in. Being a single tasker (Are you a single tasker - can only do one thing at a time?) she was focused on books and school and so didn't really have the focus on social life, which she is quite adept at doing (now she's getting into it since she's at that stage of her life).

She's very direct with her advice and almost like tin man (lol), not stopping to take emotions into consideration and just presenting one possible thing to try after another. There are variations of extraverted thinkers, some gather and are focused at obtaining more information by reading more others not as much. She had specific hobbies, including wine tasting, soccer, entertaining, home design, etc. She wanted to become an architect (using Ni, sometimes she reflects on not having done so with regret and can't seem to brush her emotions away). She and I do a lot of activities together. She enjoys working out and had routines for that and she also loves to cook and entertain.

She loves emotional support. When going to buy something she loves to have me to discuss her options and choices so that she can decide with rational approach rather then just picking out things she might regret. She has very high aesthetic taste and will decorate her home with quality and very well made items. She's emotional and has high internal emotionality. That means that if you met her, she would try to be polite and follow formality of interaction, but in private, with people she trusts, she expresses a lot of opinions about things, tries to be funny. She's not a mean person. If you went to her home and broke something, she could care less about the material things. She would want to know if you're ok. She's also concerned if the people she loves are ok, and will call to check up on them (these are very few and she can do that). Otherwise, she has a saying, "if people want to see me, they can come to my place; I'm always here."

She loves to travel and when she does, she usually likes to stay at a quality place. She's practical with her clothes now, but when she was younger, she was all about the changing fashion. She's not a super clean freak. She can stand dust but doesn't usually like dirty dishes or water splatter around the sink. She loves it when people take care of her, especially when she's sick, by cooking for her or whatever (can't think of anything else). She also loves it when people (me) do the things she's too tired to do like cleaning. She says she hates it because when she gets started she can't stop because she always finds something else that needs to be cleaned and before she knows it it's consumed a lot of her time.

She's optimistic, for life (does consider suicide as a cop out), and has hope for humanity, as I do.

When she does something she takes a really meticulous approach, covering every detail with care, organization, and until she says, "I'm happy with it now." Other hobbies include dancing, she delves deep into what she like and wants to do it with perfection. Almost anything she picks up and makes it an official project, she will learn almost anything about it and be proficient; from the outside, she looks like a perfectionist (although she has said she doesn't try to be it); she does use Te (gather info) about them.

She's very bad with time; she has a hard time falling asleep, saying that her mind races with thoughts, but when she does sleep she likes to not use the alarm, even though she has to. She's "natural" that way and wants to follow natural sleep cycles. When she's entertaining by the pool, she's always up on her feet working, cooking, watching the kids, scanning the scene to make sure things are ok, people are not drowning, etc. She has consistent and even working energy.

Functionally,
-organizes, gathers info on her hobbies, work and interests, works consistently with even temp, loves to read literature has a few favorite authors she likes to read; she's good at telling people what to do
-creates a warm, cozy, comfortable surrounding, pleasant food, entertains, clean, aesthetic,
-tries to joke, but doesn't interrupt any atmosphere of seriousness. like to and participates in atmospheres where people are joking and having fun. She's not as good with jokes and sudden verbal play like my ESE sister, cousin and boss, who are much more sarcastic then her.
PoLR- she gets either anxious and stress out with time, often watching it like a hawk, or the other extreme where she doesn't care about it and follows natural rhythms
Fi DS- values relationships and doesn't like it when she says something spontaneous out of poor use of Fe and anticipates that she may have hurt one of her relations' feelings, in which case she'll call them back and try to see if they are upset at her or not. Her own emotions are difficult to express, they either come out in rage or sudden reflective melodrama or sudden comment that's made a bit louder then usual. She doesn't like it when her husband makes a remark at her family member that may hurt their feelings. She's very very good about acknowledging my internal emotional states and is very responsive towards my emotions.
-very creative and seeks new ideas as well as like to try new foods. likes doing things by plans, doesn't like it when no one in the party (if we're headed somewhere as a group) discusses about time, place, etc of the plan; she doesn't like to do things half ass, so to say.
demonstrative- she's good about remaining objective about other people's feelings, is good with details, demonstrates that she can submerse herself in sensory experience like how she can delve deep into a bottle of wine (lol) with pleasure and drink up the whole thing.
ignoring-she contradicts herself sometimes; between what she says about herself and what she does. Being Ti my role function, I catch these and I never care because I don't value that and it doesn't bother me, so I don't give her guilt trips over it. I love our relationship.

[Beautiful sky]

You'll have to go back and read my posts as I'm not very organized and I think of other things and add to my post...lack of Te, what can I say.

An example of how my dual cousin makes rules...

She will tell me what colors go together. I'm nearly completely clueless as to how to use sensory information, like coordinating and design. She's really good at the rules of design, as an example. Like she'll say to me, you have a purple cover, get lavender sheets, and white pillows and color curtains and something to tie those in. These are rules. The rule is that you should coordinate with these colors. She's very good with textures and patterns too especially with shapes (characterized by Si).

She will sometimes make sudden gruff remarks, but the gross realization that it may have hurt her close relations is something she fears. She's kind is ready to help the people who are close to her and who she loves.

[Beautiful sky]

1. Do emotions drain your working energy or can you work even though on the inside you may feel down?

Doesn't really matter because they are going to do what they do; Fi is so repressed that it doesn't matter.
If you get too much T, you start thinking the planing is taking away from T, so you're going too far. Have a general idea of what you're doing if you have Specific then you get caught in the details and don't get things accomplished. You (refering to me) looks at the details.
2. Which are you more likely to do:
A. Plan something and go over the plan before you proceed.
B. Leap into one thing after another, working on the fly.

Leap into something.
3. You've already indicated poor time management, does it stress you out when you have to be somewhere at a certain time; do you get anxious and tense?
Yes, a month a go having panic attacks, because I didn't know how long it will take to get there (some thing she needed to do).
4. You already said you're very good with organization. What system or methodology do you follow when proceeding? Do you use methods, work flow, or do you use categorization?
Metaphorically, setting up categories, groups to do, same category get an idea of what to do, see the work that needs to be done.
5. What activity is your idea of relaxation? Why?
Relaxing idea: reading books, because then can detach. If the social scene is not social enough, the Te person will start checking or interacting with their object (cell phone).
6. What activity is your idea of "fun"? Why?
Going out and interacting with people because it provides new experiences that you wouldn't get by staying home and reading a book. Doing something you're in control of; all about controling objects.
7. What quality or trait do you envy or wish you had? Which ones do you envy in others?
Quality you envy in others. Robinson Crusoe figure out the resources and use them wisely. How to manipulate the environment and use resources wisely.
8. Do you have a single track mind or prefer multitasking?
Single track mind. When I go in the store, I'm focused, I think, plates, plates, plates and I can only do one thing at a time. You (refer to me) are an auditory person because you can hear many sounds coming in so you can multitask.
9. Do you like to collect information in things like books, about your hobbies and interests? I'm talking about having facts?
Collects facts, self learner or obsessive about having facts; learn better by doing things.
10. Do you enjoy quotes?
Quotes are managable and control it then you can drop it into conversations. Chunking things into blocks and now you can use it because it's chunked into blocks.
11. Do you make or follow routines for yourself?
Yes. Get up, make breakfast, take vitamines, somewhere between excersize.
12. Do you offer people advice about what they can do and how they can do things.*
That's what I do best and that's why people hate me. It troubles me because I want to speak out and be efficient.
13. Do you make rules?
Yes. I make silly rules about stuff. Don't eat white things.
14. Are you more likely to see similarities between things or differences?
Compare or contrast? Metaphoric thinking; both at the same time.
15. Glass half full or half empty?
Glass half full; optimist
16. Are you likely to give considerate gifts to people?
Yes, I give considerate gifts. I collect info about the person, their hobbies, interests and then when I see something I think is a good gift for them I'll get it.
17. Are you emotionally expressive (likes to give hugs)?
Yes. I like giving hugs even though I said I'm not a touchy feely person. (Ti ignoring LOL)
18. Do you find yourself contradicting what you say and do?
I don't think I contradict between what I say and do, because what you say has as much power as what you do. You can create things with what you say (they become object) as well as what you do. (Even though she did with the hug thing.)
19. Do you agree with the statement:

Time is made for discipline.
You should go to work whenever you feel rested, no alarm is needed; when people go to work whenever they wake up they wouldn't need as much coffee and they would be better rested.
Part of is right; you'll be more productive if you're rested. But also it sounds like it's a rule.

[Timeless]

ehhh I don't know. From what I've read on this site, VI doesn't actually work.

It is not the main course of Socionics, but it is a nice aid to typing. Either way, it doesn't hurt to try.

Up to you. No biggie, either way.

[lemon]

I will bold the parts I identify with or relate to.

My cousin is the love of my life. I'll try to tell you all about her. She was very quiet and almost anti-social when she was going to school, had only one friend and for the longest time, she considered herself an introvert until I explained to her that it had nothing to do with either being shy, quiet, reserved, antisocial, or having few friends (just like you). The difference is that one is oriented towards the objective world the other analyzes and subjectifys what little from the outside world they take in. Being a single tasker (Are you a single tasker - can only do one thing at a time?) she was focused on books and school and so didn't really have the focus on social life, which she is quite adept at doing (now she's getting into it since she's at that stage of her life).


She's very direct with her advice and almost like tin man (lol), not stopping to take emotions into consideration and just presenting one possible thing to try after another. There are variations of extraverted thinkers, some gather and are focused at obtaining more information by reading more others not as much. She had specific hobbies, including wine tasting, soccer, entertaining, home design, etc. She wanted to become an architect (using Ni, sometimes she reflects on not having done so with regret and can't seem to brush her emotions away). She and I do a lot of activities together. She enjoys working out and had routines for that and she also loves to cook and entertain.

She loves emotional support. When going to buy something she loves to have me to discuss her options and choices so that she can decide with rational approach rather then just picking out things she might regret. She has very high aesthetic taste and will decorate her home with quality and very well made items. She's emotional and has high internal emotionality. That means that if you met her, she would try to be polite and follow formality of interaction, but in private, with people she trusts, she expresses a lot of opinions about things, tries to be funny. She's not a mean person. If you went to her home and broke something, she could care less about the material things. She would want to know if you're ok. She's also concerned if the people she loves are ok, and will call to check up on them (these are very few and she can do that). Otherwise, she has a saying, "if people want to see me, they can come to my place; I'm always here."

She loves to travel and when she does, she usually likes to stay at a quality place. She's practical with her clothes now, but when she was younger, she was all about the changing fashion. She's not a super clean freak. She can stand dust but doesn't usually like dirty dishes or water splatter around the sink. She loves it when people take care of her, especially when she's sick, by cooking for her or whatever (can't think of anything else). She also loves it when people (me) do the things she's too tired to do like cleaning. She says she hates it because when she gets started she can't stop because she always finds something else that needs to be cleaned and before she knows it it's consumed a lot of her time.

She's optimistic, for life (does consider suicide as a cop out), and has hope for humanity, as I do.

When she does something she takes a really meticulous approach, covering every detail with care, organization, and until she says, "I'm happy with it now." Other hobbies include dancing, she delves deep into what she like and wants to do it with perfection. Almost anything she picks up and makes it an official project, she will learn almost anything about it and be proficient; from the outside, she looks like a perfectionist (although she has said she doesn't try to be it); she does use Te (gather info) about them.

She's very bad with time; she has a hard time falling asleep, saying that her mind races with thoughts, but when she does sleep she likes to not use the alarm, even though she has to. She's "natural" that way and wants to follow natural sleep cycles. When she's entertaining by the pool, she's always up on her feet working, cooking, watching the kids, scanning the scene to make sure things are ok, people are not drowning, etc. She has consistent and even working energy.

Functionally,
-organizes, gathers info on her hobbies, work and interests, works consistently with even temp, loves to read literature has a few favorite authors she likes to read; she's good at telling people what to do
-creates a warm, cozy, comfortable surrounding, pleasant food, entertains, clean, aesthetic,
-tries to joke, but doesn't interrupt any atmosphere of seriousness. like to and participates in atmospheres where people are joking and having fun. She's not as good with jokes and sudden verbal play like my ESE sister, cousin and boss, who are much more sarcastic then her.
PoLR- she gets either anxious and stress out with time, often watching it like a hawk, or the other extreme where she doesn't care about it and follows natural rhythms
Fi DS- values relationships and doesn't like it when she says something spontaneous out of poor use of Fe and anticipates that she may have hurt one of her relations' feelings, in which case she'll call them back and try to see if they are upset at her or not. Her own emotions are difficult to express, they either come out in rage or sudden reflective melodrama or sudden comment that's made a bit louder then usual. She doesn't like it when her husband makes a remark at her family member that may hurt their feelings. She's very very good about acknowledging my internal emotional states and is very responsive towards my emotions.
-very creative and seeks new ideas as well as like to try new foods. likes doing things by plans, doesn't like it when no one in the party (if we're headed somewhere as a group) discusses about time, place, etc of the plan; she doesn't like to do things half ass, so to say.
demonstrative- she's good about remaining objective about other people's feelings, is good with details, demonstrates that she can submerse herself in sensory experience like how she can delve deep into a bottle of wine (lol) with pleasure and drink up the whole thing.
ignoring-she contradicts herself sometimes; between what she says about herself and what she does. Being Ti my role function, I catch these and I never care because I don't value that and it doesn't bother me, so I don't give her guilt trips over it. I love our relationship.

No, I'm not really a single tasker. Example: right now I am on 16types, photoshopping a photo, and on facebook. I keep jumping back and forth between these things, whenever my computer starts lagging in one of them, so I always have something to do.

You'll have to go back and read my posts as I'm not very organized and I think of other things and add to my post...lack of Te, what can I say.

An example of how my dual cousin makes rules...

She will tell me what colors go together. I'm nearly completely clueless as to how to use sensory information, like coordinating and design. She's really good at the rules of design, as an example. Like she'll say to me, you have a purple cover, get lavender sheets, and white pillows and color curtains and something to tie those in. These are rules. The rule is that you should coordinate with these colors. She's very good with textures and patterns too especially with shapes (characterized by Si).


She will sometimes make sudden gruff remarks, but the gross realization that it may have hurt her close relations is something she fears. She's kind is ready help the people who are close to her and who she loves.

My favorite colors together are dark red, yellow, and teal. Whenever I can I try to arrange those colors together in my room or in artwork I make, etc.

1. Do emotions drain your working energy or can you work even though on the inside you may feel down?

Doesn't really matter because they are going to do what they do; Fi is so repressed that it doesn't matter.
If you get too much T, you start thinking the planing is taking away from T, so you're going too far. Have a general idea of what you're doing if you have Specific then you get caught in the details and don't get things accomplished. You (refering to me) looks at the details.
2. Which are you more likely to do:
A. Plan something and go over the plan before you proceed.
B. Leap into one thing after another, working on the fly.

Leap into something.
3. You've already indicated poor time management, does it stress you out when you have to be somewhere at a certain time; do you get anxious and tense?
Yes, a month a go having panic attacks, because I didn't know how long it will take to get there (some thing she needed to do).
4. You already said you're very good with organization. What system or methodology do you follow when proceeding? Do you use methods, work flow, or do you use categorization?
Metaphorically, setting up categories, groups to do, same category get an idea of what to do, see the work that needs to be done.
5. What activity is your idea of relaxation? Why?
Relaxing idea: reading books, because then can detach. Not social enough so they will start checking or interacting with their object.
6. What activity is your idea of "fun"? Why?
Going out and interacting with people because it provides new experiences that you wouldn't get by staying home and reading a book. Doing something you're in control of; all about controling objects.
7. What quality or trait do you envy or wish you had? Which ones do you envy in others?
Quality you envy in others. Robinson Crusoe figure out the resources and use them wisely. How to manipulate the environment and use resources wisely.
8. Do you have a single track mind or prefer multitasking?
Single track mind. When I go in the store, I'm focused, I think, plates, plates, plates and I can only do one thing at a time. You (refer to me) are an auditory person because you can hear many sounds coming in so you can multitask.
9. Do you like to collect information in things like books, about your hobbies and interests? I'm talking about having facts?
Collects facts, self learner or obsessive about having facts; learn better by doing things.
10. Do you enjoy quotes?
Quotes are managable and control it then you can drop it into conversations. Chunking things into blocks and now you can use it because it's chunked into blocks.
11. Do you make or follow routines for yourself?
Yes. Get up, make breakfast, take vitamines, somewhere between excersize.
12. Do you offer people advice about what they can do and how they can do things.*
That's what I do best and that's why people hate me. It troubles me because I want to speak out and be efficient.
13. Do you make rules?
Yes. I make silly rules about stuff. Don't eat white things.
14. Are you more likely to see similarities between things or differences?
Compare or contrast? Metaphoric thinking; both at the same time.
15. Glass half full or half empty?
Glass half full; optimist
16. Are you likely to give considerate gifts to people?
Yes, I give considerate gifts. I collect info about the person, their hobbies, interests and then when I see something I think is a good gift for them I'll get it.
17. Are you emotionally expressive (likes to give hugs)?
Yes. I like giving hugs even though I said I'm not a touchy feely person. (Ti ignoring LOL)
18. Do you find yourself contradicting what you say and do?
I don't think I contradict between what I say and do, because what you say has as much power as what you do. You can create things with what you say (they become object) as well as what you do. (Even though she did with the hug thing.)
19. Do you agree with the statement:

Time is made for discipline.
You should go to work whenever you feel rested, no alarm is needed; when people go to work whenever they wake up they wouldn't need as much coffee and they would be better rested.
Part of is right; you'll be more productive if you're rested. But also it sounds like it's a rule.

She does sound a bit like me

[Beautiful sky]

No, I'm not really a single tasker. Example: right now I am on 16types, photoshopping a photo, and on facebook. I keep jumping back and forth between these things, whenever my computer starts lagging in one of them, so I always have something to do.



My favorite colors together are dark red, yellow, and teal. Whenever I can I try to arrange those colors together in my room or in artwork I make, etc.



She does sound a bit like me

A lot like you
Umm. I think single tasking is not refered to visual orientation. I've known many LSE types who can jump back and forth on 4 screens on the computer. But you work fast and efficiently and not a single typo in your writing tells me you are object driven and oriented hence Extraverted type.

She likes natural colors now; her favorite is celadon green, but she's designed her room in brown, neutral colors, and painted the walls a sea blue shade.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I might be able to get back to you this evening, Lemon. Most of my browsing is done on my phone, and I would prefer to type the response on my laptop.

I asked about your gender so I wouldn't have to refer to you as "he/she".

[lemon]

A lot like you
Umm. I think single tasking is not refered to visual orientation. I've known many LSE types who can jump back and forth on 4 screens on the computer. But you work fast and efficiently and not a single typo in your writing tells me you are object driven and oriented hence Extraverted type.

She likes natural colors now; her favorite is celadon green, but she's designed her room in brown, neutral colors, and painted the walls a sea blue shade.

So.. so far this thread has been really useful. LSE definitely sounds like it fits, my only doubt is that perhaps I could be SLI? From what I've written here, it seems to you that I am extraverted (that I value Te over Si), but I don't know if I actually do... I am having trouble determining myself if I focus more on Te or Si, so could you maybe tell me why you're so sure of LSE rather than SLI? Sorry if this is a pain, I just really want to make sure I get the right type.

I might be able to get back to you this evening, Lemon. Most of my browsing is done on my phone, and I would prefer to type the response on my laptop.

I asked about your gender so I wouldn't have to refer to you as "he/she".

Awesome, well I'm looking forward to it

[lemon]

actually, thinking about it now, I definitely don't focus too much on sensations.. I am very aware of sudden bad sensations, and I use aesthetic/sensory perceptive skills when there is I time for them, but I don't use them all of the time... I am known to sit in very uncomfortable positions (I don't know why), and there's also that whole not sleeping thing... If I was Si dominant, I would be a strange one not to be using it all of the time, right? Hmmm

[Beautiful sky]

So.. so far this thread has been really useful. LSE definitely sounds like it fits, my only doubt is that perhaps I could be SLI? From what I've written here, it seems to you that I am extraverted (that I value Te over Si), but I don't know if I actually do... I am having trouble determining myself if I focus more on Te or Si, so could you maybe tell me why you're so sure of LSE rather than SLI? Sorry if this is a pain, I just really want to make sure I get the right type.



Awesome, well I'm looking forward to it

Alright, let me help.

LSE differ from SLI in terms of being able to show enthusiasm. (This is why I asked that question.) Being Fe PoLR, SLI are typically incapable of doing this instead remaining pretty emotionless on the outside.

Being Introverted Perceptuals, SLI are more adaptable than LSE; they are not as interested in coming up with new ideas because unlike LSE, they are not Activated by that functions abilities. LSE are activated by EII's Ne, the function that is in charge of planing, coming up with new ideas, looking at possibilties. LSE appreciate analysis where I think that SLI require a lot of praise and prefer a certain sense of "uniqueness"; LSE realize that people are individuals but because they are a Rational type, are able to see patterns that EII points out in people and describes. Patterns such as SEE types all wear red today..and LSE takes this and looks around to see if he can spot the SEE's that wear red...this is just an example.

Being introverts, SLI care less about objective things like keeping things around the home clean, tidy, neat, organized, repairing broken things, etc. as they submerse themselves in their subjective internal world, like listening to music for a long time rather then doing that after working, like LSE tend to do.

actually, thinking about it now, I definitely don't focus too much on sensations.. I am very aware of sudden bad sensations, and I use aesthetic/sensory perceptive skills when there is I time for them, but I don't use them all of the time... I am known to sit in very uncomfortable positions (I don't know why), and there's also that whole not sleeping thing... If I was Si dominant, I would be a strange one not to be using it all of the time, right? Hmmm

There is a possibility that you may be SLI but one who is more developed Te. I would love a VI photo if you could PM me one. Thanks. Yes. If you were Si, you would be much better in tuned with your sensations and would likely know or feel how much sleep was fulfilling, you would stay in longer to rest. LSE do things by more structure like. For instance, and another example, my cousin often says "Saturdays are for sleeping in, that's what you do." The point of this is that that's the day for rest after working during the week. I think that SLI are more likely to let the days run into each other not really paying attention to what days are for what purpose.

[The Ineffable]

I'm thinking of Alpha XXXp.

Yes! I have troubles differentiating between ILE and SEI here. Some things make me incline towards SEI - and lol @ "someone who lets me think". Though her cleanly reasoned principled rules make me thing of ILE, too, there are very many Alpha values there but which are normally not so highly rationalized by SEIs, as far as I can tell.

lemon, I really like what you wrote! Especially your principles, btw I classify ppl into conformists, non-conformists and "non-conformists" (notice the quotes). You are - and I relate to - the second, IMO.

What do you mean? Socionics is Jungian personality types.

"Jungian" doesn't mean "Jung's typology". They're historically related, though, so is chemistry with alchemy.

EDIT: I find that, though, in most cases, people get offended by practical advice, because it makes them feel like I'm trying to make them look stupid or something (I don't understand it, usually I'm just trying to help). So I hold back with the advice-giving unless they are family or close friend, like you said.

I just wrote something similar (but in a way the opposite), this projection is reaaaly bothering to me:

To exemplify, one thing is the incapacity of Deltas to take an impersonal and objective approach on evaluating people's qualities, the opposite of what I'm trying to establish. It's ok to evoke great deeds, predictions or whatever, but not qualities, capacity or value - to them it's one thing to positively evaluate yourself (to them: boasting, or self-promotion), someone in the family (care for them, love, protection, promotion), friends (mutual help, or whatever kind of friendship it is) or "the rest of the world". Now take that "how did I miss that" and put it into two divergent contexts, for example: (1) "that he boasts so much", (2) "that he has such qualities" - and you can figure out one kind of blockage I'm talking about, it's impossible to be fully open or receptive with the approach you prefer versus the other one.

---

4. I notice similarities a lot. The first thing I do when I meet someone is think about who they look like who I already know. I usually do this to most people I see anywhere, just because it's interesting to me. I also notice when the layout of a town is similar to the one I live in, and I notice when people talk or act like each other. I notice lots of parallels between things.

Oh! If this is really a leitmotif of yours, that must be Ne. Possibly combined with Ti. Do you see things like they belong to "sets"? Do you create different sets in your mind classifying things, sometimes how things should be? For example, "what would make the perfect special operation troop?" - should there be four, five or other number? - then eventually compare with the complete set of roles in other field and try to reduce them to a small number based on similarities, compatible qualities that can be learned together by one person, etc, to create a truly autonomous and self-contained group.
(categories, systematization, similarities, correspondences)
---

Question:
- how persistent are your hobbies and occupations? Why do you think that you'll do art and craft in your life and when did you decide this (years ago)?
- do you have facebook or have an opinion for or against it?
---

I read your older posts and I recalled that I thought you're ILE. Though at one point Vero said that your posts remind her of Steve and you said something like "possibly", but I consider he's rather Beta NF - and also a snob - so I began looking into that but then forgot about it, had different other things to do. I personally don't see similarities between your writing styles (maybe Vero's opinion was superficially based on "visualizing energy"), he's talking more like a poet, in some sort of metaphysical, philosophical - for the sake of philosophy - manner, obscurely.

[Absurd]

After reading your post(s) I do agree with other posters saying you're Alpha. Don't listen to Maritsa - she couldn't type/V.I herself looking in the mirror not to mention others.

[Slacker]

Please don't listen to Maritsa. She types almost all men as LSE. You appear to be female and she still types you as LSE, which is slightly off her usual typing, but she's still very unreliable.

Though apparently she thinks only extraverted people care about having positive relations with other people, and that does explain why she types almost everyone as SEE or LSE, since almost the whole world is extraverted by that definition. I'm getting some insight to her method of mistyping.

[Park]

Definitely Si ego. I am leaning towards Si-LSE, though there are a few things that make me uncertain.

A good part of what you wrote sounds like me, as well, only I rarely have the energy (or the skill) to talk about myself in such great detail. You seem more verbose and energetic.

[Filambee]

Can you post a pic?

[Park]

Can you post a pic?

Can you skim through a couple of posts before you ask redundant questions?

[Jarno]

Can you post a pic?

[Filambee]

Can you skim through a couple of posts before you ask redundant questions?

Come on, post one real picture of yourself, pretty please?

[Park]

Preferably a nude, so they can jerk off.

[Beautiful sky]

I might be able to get back to you this evening, Lemon. Most of my browsing is done on my phone, and I would prefer to type the response on my laptop.

I asked about your gender so I wouldn't have to refer to you as "he/she".

Please explain why you think she's SEI.

[lemon]

Yes! I have troubles differentiating between ILE and SEI here. Some things make me incline towards SEI - and lol @ "someone who lets me think". Though her cleanly reasoned principled rules make me thing of ILE, too, there are very many Alpha values there but which are normally not so highly rationalized by SEIs, as far as I can tell.

lemon, I really like what you wrote! Especially your principles, btw I classify ppl into conformists, non-conformists and "non-conformists" (notice the quotes). You are - and I relate to - the second, IMO.

Awesome, thank you

"Jungian" doesn't mean "Jung's typology". They're historically related, though, so is chemistry with alchemy.

I just wrote something similar (but in a way the opposite), this projection is reaaaly bothering to me:

---


Oh! If this is really a leitmotif of yours, that must be Ne. Possibly combined with Ti. Do you see things like they belong to "sets"? Do you create different sets in your mind classifying things, sometimes how things should be? For example, "what would make the perfect special operation troop?" - should there be four, five or other number? - then eventually compare with the complete set of roles in other field and try to reduce them to a small number based on similarities, compatible qualities that can be learned together by one person, etc, to create a truly autonomous and self-contained group.
(categories, systematization, similarities, correspondences)

Ehh, I can't say I've ever thought about troops in particular, but I will try to think of some things that relate to what you're saying.

I think the perfect # of band members in a group would be 4, which is actually based on the fact that there are four different sociotypes in a quadra, therefore a band could be a complete quadra, which I somehow think would make the best music because they'd be in sync with each other etc etc..

The perfect number of people to hang out with at a time is 3, because with 2 people there are awkward silences, and with 4 people, there might be 2 different conversations going on at once, which is not ideal, but okay I guess.

When I was younger I remember trying to figure out all of the basic personality traits that a human being could have (loud, quiet, mean, nice, lol) and then tried to categorize everyone I knew with these qualities, but it was frustrating because I would always think of new traits to add to the list and couldn't decide which ones to get rid of... I was a strange kid. haha.

Not sure if these examples were what you were looking for, but they can at least demonstrate more aspects of my personality to you.
---

Question:
- how persistent are your hobbies and occupations? Why do you think that you'll do art and craft in your life and when did you decide this (years ago)?

I have been very persistent in art throughout my entire life (literally, since I was able to hold a pencil). My mom is *kind of* an artist (I say kind of because she has amazing talent but rarely uses it, because of her bizarre philosophical reasons), so she made sure to introduce me to it at a young age and then motivate me toward that area. My hobbies are on and off, but they are persistent. For example, I will be really into guitar for a month, and then really into photography another month, and then really into bookmaking, but eventually the cycle starts again and I'll be really into guitar again(I have more hobbies than these, but you get the point). Right now I am into photography again, and I'm building a pinhole camera. Despite the fact that all of what I've just written may make me sound incredibly active and all that, I'm not, and still use a lot of time playing video games and browsing the internet (just thought I'd add, in case I was painting an inaccurate picture of myself)

- do you have facebook or have an opinion for or against it?

I do have a facebook, but I think facebook is kind of lame. I can understand why people like it (keeping in touch and all that), but I don't even like keeping in touch with people, unless it's over the phone, so for me, I usually view facebook as a place where girls take pictures of themselves and their boobs, and guys try to make themselves look interesting. Dumb.

Regardless of all that, I do check my facebook on a regular basis, post comments, and read other people's statuses, but will rarely post statuses of my own.
---

I read your older posts and I recalled that I thought you're ILE. Though at one point Vero said that your posts remind her of Steve and you said something like "possibly", but I consider he's rather Beta NF - and also a snob - so I began looking into that but then forgot about it, had different other things to do. I personally don't see similarities between your writing styles (maybe Vero's opinion was superficially based on "visualizing energy"), he's talking more like a poet, in some sort of metaphysical, philosophical - for the sake of philosophy - manner, obscurely.

I did read some of his posts, and although they did seem like things I would think of, I thought most of his ideas were kind of boring. I don't know why.

After reading your post(s) I do agree with other posters saying you're Alpha. Don't listen to Maritsa - she couldn't type/V.I herself looking in the mirror not to mention others.

Come on, post one real picture of yourself, pretty please?

Uhh...

Preferably a nude, so they can jerk off.

...No.


haha, Sorry.

[Park]

Uhh...



...No.


haha, Sorry.

Hey, I'm on your side!

[Suz]

Lemon, beware, Maritsa is not considered a very reliable source of socionics information in the community.

And VI works depending on who is reading it, what sort of understanding they have, and what visual information is available (certain features need to be clearly visible to be useful). VI should also be taken in context with behavioral manifestations. I recommend Ashton and Galen as the more reliable VI socionists on here that I know of.

[The Ineffable]

Awesome, thank you

Is the lack of exclamation mark the dilemma of writing correctly vs coming across as over-the-top?

I think the perfect # of band members in a group would be 4, which is actually based on the fact that there are four different sociotypes in a quadra, therefore a band could be a complete quadra, which I somehow think would make the best music because they'd be in sync with each other etc etc..

The perfect number of people to hang out with at a time is 3, because with 2 people there are awkward silences, and with 4 people, there might be 2 different conversations going on at once, which is not ideal, but okay I guess.

When I was younger I remember trying to figure out all of the basic personality traits that a human being could have (loud, quiet, mean, nice, lol) and then tried to categorize everyone I knew with these qualities, but it was frustrating because I would always think of new traits to add to the list and couldn't decide which ones to get rid of... I was a strange kid. haha.

Not sure if these examples were what you were looking for, but they can at least demonstrate more aspects of my personality to you.

Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for.

I have a very similar reasoning and preoccupations and it fits with NeTi, but unlikely to be SEI. In fact I had a discussion with my SEI gf about buying some things and her conclusion was "I don't understand why you want my laptop/phone 'complement' yours and we can't buy the same or totally different".

Regarding the perfect number of people, random rules of thumb of mine: I think that 3 is something related to change and destruction, but also hierarchy - not made to last; 4 is structure, arrangement, but also cycle - made to last.
From my experience, in threesome, two of the guys will team together antagonizing the third, even if slightly and not always the same pair. Maybe five? - the element of imbalance will oscillate between the two potential poles, preventing the structural fixation. Though 5 sounds too much for putting it in your pocket .
---

but it was frustrating because I would always think of new traits to add to the list and couldn't decide which ones to get rid of

So familiar! It's so painful when the new traits don't fit the magic number (or formula), so I'm in doubt whether to either take it from scratch, find whether some items are subsets/inherited from others or don't belong to the system but conventionally - to be dismissed, am I close to something or rather dismiss the matter entirely :|.

Oh and it also sucks that most people don't see some things so you can't explain them. For example, in the West most people don't understand the meaning of Yin and Yang which is found in everything. So when you take a pair of dichotomies, although you can tell immediately which is "left" and which is "right" in each, you find yourself in the impossibility to express the fact that these choices are not arbitrary, as most people are unaware of these principles and have no notion for them.
---

So I settled on ILE. Did you read ILE descriptions? What do you think of them, are they fit or rather not?

[lemon]

Hey, I'm on your side!

whoops, I know, I was aiming the whole message at the first post. sorry if that was unclear. my baddd, lol.

Lemon, beware, Maritsa is not considered a very reliable source of socionics information in the community.

And VI works depending on who is reading it, what sort of understanding they have, and what visual information is available (certain features need to be clearly visible to be useful). VI should also be taken in context with behavioral manifestations. I recommend Ashton and Galen as the more reliable VI socionists on here that I know of.

Cool, thanks for the tip. I'm going to see how this goes first though, before I have any serious VIing going on.

Is the lack of exclamation mark the dilemma of writing correctly vs coming across as over-the-top?

haha oh wow! you are like me. Well, It was probably the ladder. and it's not because I was trying to "play it cool" or whatever, it's just that an exclamation mark would not have accurately represented my response. It was more like a, "hey, I'm really glad he said that." I always spend way too much time deciding what emoticon to put, if any, lol.

Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for.

I have a very similar reasoning and preoccupations and it fits with NeTi, but unlikely to be SEI. In fact I had a discussion with my SEI gf about buying some things and her conclusion was "I don't understand why you want my laptop/phone 'complement' yours and we can't buy the same or totally different".

Regarding the perfect number of people, random rules of thumb of mine: I think that 3 is something related to change and destruction, but also hierarchy - not made to last; 4 is structure, arrangement, but also cycle - made to last.
From my experience, in threesome, two of the guys will team together antagonizing the third, even if slightly and not always the same pair. Maybe five? - the element of imbalance will oscillate between the two potential poles, preventing the structural fixation. Though 5 sounds too much for putting it in your pocket .

In my experience (being a girl, so it's kind of different), when I'm in a group of three, two will be talking and the third will be listening, and I'm usually the third. I don't usually mind this, because it means I get to pop into the conversation and add random (usually hopefully funny) comments, or wait for them to start talking about something interesting so I can jump in and take more control of the conversation. Four, I'm sure, is truly the best group (I agree with what you say about stability), but I just haven't found the right friends yet for it to work.
---


So familiar! It's so painful when the new traits don't fit the magic number (or formula), so I'm in doubt whether to either take it from scratch, find whether some items are subsets/inherited from others or don't belong to the system but conventionally - to be dismissed, am I close to something or rather dismiss the matter entirely :|.

yes!

Oh and it also sucks that most people don't see some things so you can't explain them. For example, in the West most people don't understand the meaning of Yin and Yang which is found in everything. So when you take a pair of dichotomies, although you can tell immediately which is "left" and which is "right" in each, you find yourself in the impossibility to express the fact that these choices are not arbitrary, as most people are unaware of these principles and have no notion for them.

Problem: I don't understand the meaning of yin and yang (at least, not very clearly)(go figure), but I think I get (roughly) what you're saying. I have always been interested in left and right wing (that is what you're referring to when you say left and right, right?), and the (I guess you could call them) philosophies behind the ideals. More so than that, I am interested in libertarianism and authoritarianism, though I've hardly read anything about them, just thought about them, because most of the information I find is not what I'm looking for (ie: "libertarians are more common in CA than NC, blah blah blah...").
---

So I settled on ILE. Did you read ILE descriptions? What do you think of them, are they fit or rather not?

I have read them, and the thing that puts me off about them is the way that they always say, "ILE's are really good at making people interested in new ideas and bouncing ideas off of people, etc etc." I have trouble relating to this, because I usually bounce my ideas around in my head, not other people, and I'm not usually very keen on introducing new ideas to people. I certainly wouldn't mind it, but I find that the usual scenario is A: they don't care and are just nodding and smiling and pretending to listen/understand, B: they have no idea what I'm talking about and I can never explain it properly, or C: their ideas are way more developed and thoughtful than mine, and so they are bored with me. lame.

I am very good at seeing the potential of things, though (objects more so than people).

info about how I act with people: I often will say less than I have to say to a person, for fear of boring them, or weirding them out ("why is this chick talking so much"). When I thank people (for dinner, helping me with something, etc), I always feel very awkward, and am very sensitive to their response as well as whether or not I came across as sincere. I have trouble showing people that I like/enjoy their company. I feel like I should stay in touch with people (after they have moved or something), but I rarely actually do. I like to be able to joke/poke fun at people and them not get offended.

[Beautiful sky]

Lemon is SEI or ESE people. I couldn't believe that none of you could make a logical argument as to why. I just steered the conversation in an opposite way to see how you all would respond....arg... Just gets me thinking about what confusion does to mass opinion.

[Slacker]

Lemon is SEI or ESE people. I couldn't believe that none of you could make a logical argument as to why. I just steered the conversation in an opposite way to see how you all would respond....arg... Just gets me thinking about what confusion does to mass opinion.

Your dual seeking is deafening.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Lemon is SEI or ESE people. I couldn't believe that none of you could make a logical argument as to why. I just steered the conversation in an opposite way to see how you all would respond....arg... Just gets me thinking about what confusion does to mass opinion.

Lemon: If you personally want an explanation as to why I think you are SEI or why my response took so long, feel free to PM me. I have now officially lost all interest in posting in this thread.

[The Ineffable]

I don't usually mind this, because it means I get to pop into the conversation and add random (usually hopefully funny) comments, or wait for them to start talking about something interesting so I can jump in and take more control of the conversation.
...
I certainly wouldn't mind it, but I find that the usual scenario is A: they don't care and are just nodding and smiling and pretending to listen/understand, B: they have no idea what I'm talking about and I can never explain it properly, or C: their ideas are way more developed and thoughtful than mine, and so they are bored with me. lame.

1. Read about "Hidden Agenda" of XLEs - how Fe Mobilizing works, maybe it's related:
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...averted_Ethics
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...overted_ethics

Btw, did you read the socionics.com description? Here's one detail:

They cannot logically explain their ideas as they are always intuitive and vague. Most people cannot fully comprehend their concepts, they simply believe or do not believe.

Regarding people who say "yeah, yeah..." but don't actually understand, it is a problem to me too. It basically became a reflex to me to ask very often "got it?", "you know?". But I don't usually have this problem with Alphas! That's because they respect their interlocutor and listen, they don't just *talk*, but *say* something.
I have this inclination to tell uncommon things and I'm bothered when people think I'm doing it just for entertainment - also the ones who claim that ILEs (also me) have crazy ideas because they want to be "crazy" (eccentric), this is ridiculous, they have interest in those ideas because they feel that there is something about them or they reveal new aspects of reality, they'd not be so assertive pursuing them if they had no real potential but were "just for fun".

Yes, maybe being a "crackpot" is probably the charm of ILEs, though claiming that they do what they do is intentional, with the purpose to shock or impress is wrong. I personally hate sensationalism, fanciness for the sake of fanciness, it disgusts me when I see people who wear all sorts of "weird" hats, eyeglasses or any accessory that is intended to make them appear "crazy", "dark", "artist", "geek/hacker", "underground", "oriental" and so on - it's all a fake, even if otherwise I relate to some of these categories.

I was really excited to see that you relate to similar principles, lemon, especially when you said that you're an artist but don't call yourself an artist - how many times I said similar things to people...

I like to be able to joke/poke fun at people and them not get offended.

Haha, yeah! I again identify with something of yours. I use(d) to do that often, it's so fun! Especially pwn'ing Irrationals, though I admit that I may get slightly angry/paranoid if I'm pwn'ed too much myself, esp when they're the same quadra and appear to have conspired against me though they did actually not, LOL!

What do you mean by "I'd like to be able"? - do you have only serious friends?
---

Maybe what does not fit with your description considering ILE is being organized. I'm messy and afaik ILEs are messy in general. Indeed I like neatness and structuring my environment (including the files in my computer) but I often end-up in clutter because I'm usually so occupied that I delay sorting things too much. I hate wasting my time to prepare things and clean them up and I prefer if someone else could do them for me.

Problem: I don't understand the meaning of yin and yang (at least, not very clearly)(go figure), but I think I get (roughly) what you're saying. I have always been interested in left and right wing (that is what you're referring to when you say left and right, right?), and the (I guess you could call them) philosophies behind the ideals. More so than that, I am interested in libertarianism and authoritarianism, though I've hardly read anything about them, just thought about them, because most of the information I find is not what I'm looking for (ie: "libertarians are more common in CA than NC, blah blah blah...").

No, what I mean was connection principles. For example that:
- positive = 1 = light = full = high = hot = hard = male = odd;
- negative = 0 = dark = empty = low = cold = soft = female = even.
(one could also add the Sun and the Moon, though I'm not usually doing that, LOL!)

And here's a real-life example: there are these three properties if IAs/IEs, Bodies/Fields, Dynamic/Static and External/Internal, which are fundamental to Socionics. So far so good, but most people I know ignore what is obvious to me, that Bodies, Dynamic and External are the same side/partition of different dichotomies, as Fields, Static and Internal are the other. They can tell, for instance, that Serious=Decisive and Merry=Judicious, because in the first case the IEs are either Bodies+External or Fields+Internal, while the second are the other combination. What they can't understand is actually the similarities between Rational/Irrational and these, Rational (Bodies+Dynamic or Fields+Static) is similar to Serious,Decisive, while Irrational with Merry,Judicious.

Similarily, people know about +/- and the Aristocratic/Democratic natures of quadras, but they fail to observe that the "Rational" nature of the Aristocratic quadras (+ Judging/- Perceiving) is given by the concordance between the Externality of the first and second function (in fact each two functions in a block), exactly like how Rationality is given by the concordance between Bodies/Fields and Dynamic/Static. The opposite are Democratic, which are similar to the Irrational functions. This is in fact how I actually recognized the +/- dichotomy, which I initially denied, as no one had justification for it, while the descriptions were vague and could not be observed empirically.
Note that I disagree with the opinions of some users that for instance "Alpha Ti is different than Beta Ti". This is bullshit, all Tis are by definitions the same, that claim is like saying that the policeman's Glock works differently than the thief's Glock .

[krieger]

And here's a real-life example: there are these three properties if IAs/IEs, Bodies/Fields, Dynamic/Static and External/Internal, which are fundamental to Socionics. So far so good, but most people I know ignore what is obvious to me, that Bodies, Dynamic and External are the same side/partition of different dichotomies, as Fields, Static and Internal are the other.

This is your biggest bogus theory.

[lemon]

1. Read about "Hidden Agenda" of XLEs - how Fe Mobilizing works, maybe it's related:
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...averted_Ethics
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...overted_ethics

I've read all the descriptions, many many times. My problem is that I always end up relating to every description! (except for Se dominant ones) I can never figure out which descriptions I identify with more.

Btw, did you read the socionics.com description? Here's one detail:

yup

Regarding people who say "yeah, yeah..." but don't actually understand, it is a problem to me too. It basically became a reflex to me to ask very often "got it?", "you know?". But I don't usually have this problem with Alphas! That's because they respect their interlocutor and listen, they don't just *talk*, but *say* something.

My boyfriend (I'm almost positive) is in the same quadra as me, so that would make him alpha (If I am, indeed, alpha, which I most likely am). He listens to my ideas, and will usually say something like, "so it's like, blah blah blah..." in order to confirm that he understood what I am saying. Aside from him, I can think of maybe 2 other people I have been friends with who really listened to my ideas (one was some kind of Ne ego - very awkward relationship). My closest female friend (who I think is beta) will usually give me a high pitched, "Hmmmmmm." which tells me that she doesn't give two shits. lol. so I usually stick to gossiping with her.

I have this inclination to tell uncommon things and I'm bothered when people think I'm doing it just for entertainment - also the ones who claim that ILEs (also me) have crazy ideas because they want to be "crazy" (eccentric), this is ridiculous, they have interest in those ideas because they feel that there is something about them or they reveal new aspects of reality, they'd not be so assertive pursuing them if they had no real potential but were "just for fun".

Hmm.. sometimes I like trying new ideas just to see what will happen, and what it will be like. When talking about new ideas that relate to how people's mind work (sociology, psychology, etc), I do this because I want people to have a better understanding of why they do things, and maybe a new world view. But when I'm trying new ideas like a new kind of photography, or new kind of art, I do this because I am excited about seeing the result, just because it's fun to try new things! So basically what I'm saying is: when I'm talking about something new, it's to show people something new. when I'm trying (practicing) something new, it's (basically) for entertainment.

Yes, maybe being a "crackpot" is probably the charm of ILEs, though claiming that they do what they do is intentional, with the purpose to shock or impress is wrong. I personally hate sensationalism, fanciness for the sake of fanciness, it disgusts me when I see people who wear all sorts of "weird" hats, eyeglasses or any accessory that is intended to make them appear "crazy", "dark", "artist", "geek/hacker", "underground", "oriental" and so on - it's all a fake, even if otherwise I relate to some of these categories.

this last part sounds like something I would have written. I can't stand it either. I remember my first day in junior english class, my teacher had said something like, (and this was related to something she was talking about previously) "...and some people just want to be different for the sake of being different, don't they?" and then she looked at me. BITCH. See, I had gotten my hair cut in a pixie (boy cut) style that fall. Because I liked it, because I thought it looked good! and here she was, deciding that I did it to be different??? WTF!

I was really excited to see that you relate to similar principles, lemon, especially when you said that you're an artist but don't call yourself an artist - how many times I said similar things to people...

Yes! I find that usually when people call themselves artists, they end up being that "wears-weird-clothing-for-the-sake-of-wearing-weird-clothing" type you mentioned above. Bleh!

Haha, yeah! I again identify with something of yours. I use(d) to do that often, it's so fun! Especially pwn'ing Irrationals, though I admit that I may get slightly angry/paranoid if I'm pwn'ed too much myself, esp when they're the same quadra and appear to have conspired against me though they did actually not, LOL!

as long as I can tell they're kidding, I don't mind it. though some people say they can't tell when I'm being sarcastic or not when joking with them.

What do you mean by "I'd like to be able"? - do you have only serious friends?

Oh, I have a couple of merry friends. It's just that I'd like to be able to poke fun at everyone. haha
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Maybe what does not fit with your description considering ILE is being organized. I'm messy and afaik ILEs are messy in general. Indeed I like neatness and structuring my environment (including the files in my computer) but I often end-up in clutter because I'm usually so occupied that I delay sorting things too much. I hate wasting my time to prepare things and clean them up and I prefer if someone else could do them for me.

I don't really like cleaning (does anybody?), but if I don't have my room organized, I feel cluttered, and like I can't find anything I need, which drives me crazy.

No, what I mean was connection principles. For example that:
- positive = 1 = light = full = high = hot = hard = male = odd;
- negative = 0 = dark = empty = low = cold = soft = female = even.
(one could also add the Sun and the Moon, though I'm not usually doing that, LOL!)

And here's a real-life example: there are these three properties if IAs/IEs, Bodies/Fields, Dynamic/Static and External/Internal, which are fundamental to Socionics. So far so good, but most people I know ignore what is obvious to me, that Bodies, Dynamic and External are the same side/partition of different dichotomies, as Fields, Static and Internal are the other. They can tell, for instance, that Serious=Decisive and Merry=Judicious, because in the first case the IEs are either Bodies+External or Fields+Internal, while the second are the other combination. What they can't understand is actually the similarities between Rational/Irrational and these, Rational (Bodies+Dynamic or Fields+Static) is similar to Serious,Decisive, while Irrational with Merry,Judicious.

I don't think I know well enough what those terms mean to understand what you're talking about (I hate to be on the "what is this ENTp talking about" side of the conversation, but... lol). So far, with socionics, I've tried to stick to the basic principals, mainly due to the fact that as it gets more complicated, I don't know how trustable the information is, I don't identify the ideas in real life enough to state my own opinion on whether or not a complicated piece of socionics information is reliable. So basically, what I mean is, "I 'unno lol"

Similarily, people know about +/- and the Aristocratic/Democratic natures of quadras, but they fail to observe that the "Rational" nature of the Aristocratic quadras (+ Judging/- Perceiving) is given by the concordance between the Externality of the first and second function (in fact each two functions in a block), exactly like how Rationality is given by the concordance between Bodies/Fields and Dynamic/Static. The opposite are Democratic, which are similar to the Irrational functions. This is in fact how I actually recognized the +/- dichotomy, which I initially denied, as no one had justification for it, while the descriptions were vague and could not be observed empirically.
Note that I disagree with the opinions of some users that for instance "Alpha Ti is different than Beta Ti". This is bullshit, all Tis are by definitions the same, that claim is like saying that the policeman's Glock works differently than the thief's Glock .

That glock metapor is good. I'd never thought about that, and basically just went with the idea that "Se and Ne Ti are different." what you've said makes a lot more sense. I would agree that Se and Ne Ti are used for different things (just like a policeman and thief will use their glock for different things... ) but not that they are different by nature. good point!

[The Ineffable]

Hey lemon, check this out, my gf sent me this right the day we were discussing such things, just I got busy with other stuff:
WTF Of The Day: Artsy Fartsy Students Edition
(Other recommendations: Yoko Ono in action and the film "Who the #$&% Is Jackson Pollock?".)

The youtube video for the lazy: