How did she (your supervisor etc) reprimand you for breaking the rule?
How did she (your supervisor etc) reprimand you for breaking the rule?
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
She just raised her voice at me and went into a 5 minute diatribe on why I shouldn't have broken the rule. It wasn't a reprimand in the technical sense of the word but I have the feeling that if I was caught doing it again, it probably would be.Originally Posted by Maritsa33
I don't like it, but I am going to be more careful about reinforcing the rule when she's around. Maybe I'll break it when she's not around but then word might get out that I'm letting adults in the kids restroom so she may still find out.
Call me a coward or a hypocrite but I would really like to keep my job and as is much as it pains me, I feel kind of stuck with following a rule I really don't believe in. Librarian jobs are fiercely competitive right now and I can't afford to act in ways that threaten my job. If I lose my job, I have the feeling I'd be struggling a great deal to find a new one.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I see that some people have proposed that the supervisor is an LSI. As a LSI, I put myself in the supervisor's position and came up with some scenario where I might act in a similar way.
1) Legal liability issue: I personally would have explain that it is a legal liability issue in detail after the part about adults having washroom emergency.
2) Insubordination issue: I see the OP as blatantly ignoring rules. I sense the OP became augmentative, I dug in my heel in response to save face.
(I am not sure about the one as I can't yet think of a concrete example where I acted this way)
Yea I don't like that either, but in my situation it was worse because the supervisor I had really had no business being a supervisor. She had no patience with other people, was a lousy teacher, had bad moods and couldn't keep it professional, and would complain constantly about having headaches. Apparently she was the manager of the food court at Target because she worked as a short order cook for a few years, but she really had no knack for having people under her supervision. She acted more like she was a victim for having people to deal with, instead of like someone who was a director/supervisor. She had no business being the supervisor, what she should have done was work in the food court with a high pay instead, she clearly was skilled, but had horrible skills as a supervisor.
The food court I worked at was pretty odd, everyone that worked there was rough around the edges... it was like a farce comedy, and it was only a summer job to make cash, my memories of my experiences there are hazy and its hard to believe I actually worked there lol.
It all comes down to choosing between:1. Preserving personal freedom and integrity, at the risk of being disliked, treated differently, and deprived from certain things. (e.g. unappreciated and kicked out of the workplace.)Now I guess you can take these relatively, or in "by all costs" manner. Either way, I think most people are split between the two, although some kind of balance is probably reachable.
2. Preserving financial security (e.g. keeping a job), social status, image, etc., at the risk of whoring yourself. (e.g. being compliant to people you depend on in some way)
Last edited by Park; 02-06-2011 at 04:24 AM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I remember during my chem final freshman year of college, I had to skip the last 7-8 questions because I had to leave to take a massive dump.Well why not? Do you have weak?
If strong
Never eating those cafeteria eggs ever again, ever.
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Personally, I'd give exceptions to rules like this... If ya gotta go, ya gotta go. When I used to work in the cafeteria, sometimes students would forget their IDs, and I'd tell them to just go in since I knew they were students. Whatever, no big deal. This other time, when my bro and I went to the school gym, and my bro unsurprisingly forgot his student ID (he's INFp, what do you expect). The student-worker ended up hunting him down for it (literally, all over the gym)...Most people would just let it go, but this chick was on him like white on rice. Its like dude, just chill the fuck out, stop taking your job so seriously.
With that said, I guess I could see arguments for LSI- I can be pretty strict about doing things my way, or "by the book," while resisting change and such. But perhaps as people have already mentioned, she perceived it as no big deal/dealt with it many times before with no problems.
Need more info I guess.
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Holy crap...I just realized you work in the library and your name is warrior librarian! Oh mah lawd! It all makes sense now.
Last edited by Computer Loser; 02-06-2011 at 06:33 AM.
This is what I've been trying to say; that the person has weak and unvalued Ti
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Everybody becomes
Most intelligent post in the thread. Without a broader expose of the supervisor's behavior there are too many unknown variables to realistically deduce her sociotype. To engage in this kind of speculation with the merest whiff of pertinent information is to engage in smoke-blowing and projection.
Consider this. Media-stoked paranoia about child abduction and molestation is widespread (and these are real problems, btw, just blown out of a proportion by paid sensationalists, though that's a different subject). The US (where I assume WL lives) is a ridiculously litigious country full of get-rich-quick schemers dreaming of that icy staircase or unseen puddle. And by dint of increased reliance of digital media, reduced public funding in a shaky economy, and a glut of fresh graduates looking for work, it's no secret that librarians are very concerned about their careers, often even wondering why they didn't get into other fields entirely (read any librarian-written blog for all manner of horror stories). WL's supervisor has to be cognizant of all these hazards, try to reduce the library's liability to them, and retain her job in a highly competitive market. And if she's looking to get promoted, why not uphold the standards that she believes (correctly or otherwise) will earn her the marks necessary to do so? Much of the supervisor's behavior is determined by external factors.
If the actual intent is to get a finger on the supervisor's sociotype it'd be smart to provide more information on her mien and habits.
Also: Librarians are HOTTTTTT
Is it even legal to prevent emergency access to bathrooms where you are? I know here you're not allowed to deny access on retail property to any occupant that's legally within the vicinity
adults should not have bathroom emergencies.
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
O lol how idiotic.
Anyway, I think your supervisor was simply going on a power trip. If I were his (her) supervisor, I would have fired him (her) immediately. This attitude is what destroys efficiency in a workplace.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Everybody becomes
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
FDG is now hereby banned from both restrooms.
Last edited by Ozz; 02-06-2011 at 06:21 PM. Reason: Changed my mind..
I am sorry to hear that. I know it's tough to be on the front line trying to enforce rules that you don't believe in. In these kind of situation through, I think it is better to just avoid the supervisor's wrath.
Everybody becomes
I don't think the supervisor is stupid or power-tripping. The rule is understandable. I mean, what's the alternative? If you let it be known that you allow room for exceptions, people will take advantage of it.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
no rule and just everyone chaotically going in whatever restroom he-she prefers!
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Warrior LIIIIIIbrarian!
Your supervisor knows you are right, but Se egos are scared of Ne people and he will bash you because of that. They will never say "I agree with you". The only thing those cavemen can do is undermine ne people.
Who said my supervisor is se? All stupid bosses are se.
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
--> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
You know I thought about this further, I think the most ingenious way to balance both sides of the issue, is to put in children looking letters "Children's Restroom" you know like little infantile blocks or something cute, and leave it unlocked. Then to name the other restroom "Adults".
Most people already realize the difference between Men and Women's Restrooms and the stigma for a Guy walking into the Women's Restroom is awful and embarassing and No one would ever dream of doing it unless they were desperate to use a restroom and their was no Men's restroom.
Same thing with the children's restroom, if you make it look all child like, no one will want to use it for the stigma, it would be like seeing a grown up in the "baby pool".... plus they may look like a molester and get stares from other adults. The only people who would go there are the extremely desperate. They probably would still ask, out of the possibility of being embarassed for just walking in without permission and looking like a molester.
This way, its still an open option, but depends on social forces to keep people in line rather than explicit brute force.
I think that's a really good idea.
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
And a really cool way to approach her supervisor and/or boss, and get an epic kick-out.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Priorities, priorities... I don't blame you. Just take it easy and don't obsess over it.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Lol I don't think she should approach her supervisor and/or boss and propose that idea, I was just saying I think if I were the supervisor that's how I'd handle it, of course I am not the supervisor, nor is warrior librarian.
Apparently there is this thing people always hear about leadership.... "good leaders are able to listen to other people for there advice whether they agree or disagree".... unfortunately there is this thing people always hear about too.... "life isn't perfect".
So yea considering how her manager took it the first time around, you are probably right to say she doesn't push the issue.
I still however feel like the manager is power tripping because she isn't open to other points of view.
You are very correct that it is a sign of poor leadership. A concept related to (often contrasted with) leadership is called management. What's astonishing is that the situation here fits 'management' to the t. In the case of dealing with managers (managers as opposed to leaders), just stay out of the way and do the tasks.
An article describing the difference between leadership and management.
I guess that's an interesting idea but I don't frame the world in that dichotomy.
Last edited by male; 02-07-2011 at 07:35 PM.
who lets their children alone in a public restroom anyway.i don't think letting adults in every now and then would be so dangerous.i mean,don't you have cleaners?
Depends on how improbable. I'm sure even alpha NTs would agree that seriously considering outrageous possibilities beyond just the thought of it would be ridiculous.
"Well what if some guy has a timed explosive up his ass and he needs to get it out right now?"
a pretty much universal response from any supervisor:
Someone needing to throw up is a perfectly reasonable consideration. Your supervisor just sounds like they're on some power trip or maybe they just felt like you were being condescending somehow.
Okay, that example is pretty ridiculous.
But it could happen. You never know............
I don't consider myself at all condescending but I suppose there have been people in my life who wrongly perceive me that way. I think this happens with people who have weak thinking, and I'm throwing logic in their faces.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
The point isn't that that is extremely unlikely and policies shouldn't be made around stupid scenarios.
The point is that if that were to happen you'd expect people to bend the rules a little bit, instead of be like "sorry sir, your just going to have let that explode in your ass! rules are rules!"
I'd be shocked if there was someone who wouldn't bend the rules under such a scenario.
Maybe what should be argued is that Ne types or alpha NTs may have a higher tolerance for bending the rules? Idk if that's true though. I don't really see any particular reason why they would be especially more tolerant.
Yea I'm not particularly sold on the idea of it being type related...
My whole whatever on this topic, is that I think occasional bending of the rules isn't a bad thing.
I understand the supervisors position of needing to have her subordinates follow the rules and her orders because that's basically management and what its about, making sure the "ship" is functioning properly and managing people to tasks (I worked a minor managerial job at a supermarket/grocery store -- and hated it)... but in certain circumstances bending the rules and allowing subordinates to improvise difficult situations is almost vital.
I think the manager could have said something like "Well I'll consider that, but you need to stick by policy as much as possible, and ideally have a manager handle it if its outside normal procedures if at all possible". Then the manager should go up the chain of command and let the administrator know about the suggested policy change, keeping warrior librarian anonymous unless the administrator liked the idea. That kind of a model benefits the workplace a lot more in my opinion.
Also I wouldn't suggest Warrior Library do anything crazy and get fired from her job, but my sympathies are with her, because I feel that is a bit excessive personally.
If I got yelled at for doing this, I'd probably say, "I'm sorry that i broke the rule, but I made a judgment call that it was the right thing to do at the time. I'll take more care in making those kind of decisions from now on." and that would be it... I'd hope.He said it was an emergency that he felt like he absolutely couldn't hold it in any longer. So I did what I thought was the common sense thing to do. I let him use it. Sometimes exceptions have to be made.
I think you did the right thing, personally. Sometimes people in a management position do in fact need to tell you that you did something wrong, even if it's probably the right thing to do. Think about it, a person runs up to your supervisor and begs for the key and it's toooootally clear that the person's about to "go" in their pants... I wonder what their course of action would be? On one hand their a hypocrite if they let them use it, on the other they are a complete bastard for causing someone to "go" in their pants...lol. I don't see a clear wrong or right here if it's an actual emergency. Again, they'd have to be somewhat convincing that it's an actual emergency.
If somebody denies me the use of his restroom, I just shit on his couch. So, no problem.
Not sure about Alpha NT, but totally Ne, not only because it means rather the imperativeness to consider a potential, but also because IME Ne types are the most vocal against this "we/they will handle it somehow". The question is *how?*.
Don't be dumb. It's rather unvalued Si/Ne, if anything. I totally disagree with that and IMO not understanding the limits and feeling above nature is a big mistake.
No, it's rather weak Se or Ni. Please spare us of your bullshit typing, you're a whiny Alphan, LSI makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.If strong
Here too, it's illegal to obstruct access to restrooms, private property may even get shut down by law if they have no functional ones.
LOL! I'd pee on their walls somewhere in the back. The need to take a dump is however an aggravating circumstance.
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It's decided: people who support WL in this thread can't keep in
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