Carl Jung's type

[chip]

I have never posted a video link prior to my present post so I'm uncertain the link will not break. Putting aside all doubts, here is an interview of the man himself. Honestly I'm suspending judgement. When he talks about feeling 'love at first sight' I have to question that can indicate INTP hidden agenda to love but by your own standard I do not think that is clear evidence.



the next video is his view on death of the body but he posits the psyche remains unrecognizable prior to death. His view of death is reminisent of Socrates discussion of life, death, pleasure and pain in the Crito. A common pre-sentiment toward death is fear but Carl Jung suggests to embrace death without fear. Socrates held such a view but for different reasons. Socrates argued the immortality of the soul based upon protagathorian logic. I'm undecided on how to best interpret that. Socrates is regarded as a INTP on ricksocionics.com but Plato is an INTP according to typelogic which utilizes the myers-briggs model so after converting that to socionics model his type is INTJ.

As a lasting point his facial expressions seem sparce, and he has the arch eyebrows and boneless cheeks best befitting the physical descrption of INTJ. However he has a protruding nose which is a facial feature of INTP.

[Beautiful sky]

Can we please get back to this?

I would like to see if anyone can pose a good argument of why Carl Jung would be ESTp.

[Pookie]

Ni + Ti
Ni > Ne
Ti > Te

IEI

[Beautiful sky]

Pookie that's a nice suggestion but why?

[Pookie]

He built a system internally that was based on a collective of inferences, and tried to balance out the system by doing his best to have none of the components in the system overlap in any but intended ways. All of this while working with a minute amount of facts, and not really producing any real facts himself. All that makes me strongly believe Ti>Te. And i can attempt to explain the Ni, maybe at a later point, i just know that i work in a similar manner internally.

[Beautiful sky]

He built a system internally that was based on a collective of inferences, and tried to balance out the system by doing his best to have none of the components in the system overlap in any but intended ways. All of this while working with a minute amount of facts, and not really producing any real facts himself. All that makes me strongly believe Ti>Te. And i can attempt to explain the Ni, maybe at a later point, i just know that i work in a similar manner internally.

I agree with Se/Ni valuing, as you've stated above, but I disagree with him being an introvert. What argument can you make for that?

[Pookie]

I agree with Se/Ni valuing, as you've stated above, but I disagree with him being an introvert. What argument can you make for that?

To be able to create this kind of thing,singlehandedly, and not get exhausted by the task doesnt seem likely for someone with an introverted creative function. To me it speaks of someone who gets charged/energized by introspection, which is typical of an introverted base function.

And also, Dynamics. The whole creation was a means of describing intertype dynamics and the dynamics within the human psyche. I don't honestly think a static type could come up with this without it coming across in a much more reductive and seperated manner. I could be wrong about the I, but i know i'm not wrong about the dynamic portion, so if Jung was indeed an E, i think you'd have to argue that he was an EJ

[Beautiful sky]

To be able to create this kind of thing,singlehandedly, and not get exhausted by the task doesnt seem likely for someone with an introverted creative function. To me it speaks of someone who gets charged/energized by introspection, which is typical of an introverted base function.

And also, Dynamics. The whole creation was a means of describing intertype dynamics and the dynamics within the human psyche. I don't honestly think a static type could come up with this without it coming across in a much more reductive and seperated manner. I could be wrong about the I, but i know i'm not wrong about the dynamic portion, so if Jung was indeed an E, i think you'd have to argue that he was an EJ

He wasn't gathering his material from inside of himself.

[Absurd]

He wasn't gathering his material from inside of himself.

Exactly, he cut open other people and got their material instead. As for his type, a long time ago I have had a brief encounter with Jung. I think I was 21 or 22 yrs old back then, but that's not the point. I found him to be quite aristocratic socionics-wise and I don't think delta which leaves beta.

[Sol]

INTP

He wasn't gathering his material from inside of himself.

His theories were muchly an insight and speculations, not empirical.

[mfckr]

.

[Beautiful sky]

I type Carl Jung ESTp.

I type Sigmund Freud ISTp.

[Gilly]

I type Carl Jung ESTp.

I type Sigmund Freud ISTp.

[jet city woman]

LII obviously; although I've argued LSI before, I don't believe he is. He's way too big of a wacko to be LSI lol......

[Gravolez]

I am almost sure that Carl Jung is ILI or IEI (has leading Ni). The way he writes is very very pleasant and comfortable for me to read (Ashton correctly pointed out the features in Jung's writing that are probably Ni related)

[Gilly]

Oh, he did it correctly, did he? Thanks for being the standard of Socionics wisdom.

[Gravolez]

You are so lucky to have me on this forum, Gilly

[Gilly]

Exactly, he cut open other people and got their material instead. As for his type, a long time ago I have had a brief encounter with Jung. I think I was 21 or 22 yrs old back then, but that's not the point. I found him to be quite aristocratic socionics-wise and I don't think delta which leaves beta.

Lmao

[Absurd]

Lmao

Ahh, another satisfied customer. When I was little I had this squirrel that could speak like an owl. When you visit Ukraine there be very clever socionics people that can share more.

[mu4]

I type him IEI or LII, he has strong Ni and is Ti valuing. He is an introvert.

There are good arguments for IEI or LII.

[Gilly]

I type him IEI or LII, he has strong Ni and is Ti valuing. He is an introvert.

There are good arguments for IEI or LII.

wuss

[Nowisthetime]

INTj harmonizing

[Korpsy Knievel]

After reading Gerhard Wehr's Jung biography I decided Uncle Carl was IEI.

Also: bump, motherfuckers.

[Ath Is Cool]

As much as I typically disregard "authority" as beeing a reason to trust one's opinion... what is the actual liklihood that these "socionists" (I'm assuming they're somehow professionals in this "field") are ALL wrong?

[Ath Is Cool]

Excuse my overuse of snobby internet air quotes, and misspellings which I couldn't correct because fuck my computer.

[mfckr]

.

[Ath Is Cool]

Professional socionists have as much authority as professional palm readers and astrologers.

lol

Higher than you might think. Many "experts" are prone to incestuously conforming their opinions to one another, esp. when a more preeminent authority among them makes a decree.

Gross.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Professional socionists have as much authority as professional palm readers and astrologers.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Jung was EIE.

[Amber]

LII or ILI, less likely IEI

[Erk]

Jung is the functions.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Based on his perception, yes, he'd be LII and Emma was dominant, maybe SEI.


Reading his works though, he seems heavily obscured by imaginary...I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't actually correctly type himself according to his own typology - which was somewhat limited in how it was defined at any rate. I just feel I won't ever be able to have a strong opinion on his type.

[Amber]

Based on his perception, yes, he'd be LII and Emma was dominant, maybe SEI.


Reading his works though, he seems heavily obscured by imaginary...I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't actually correctly type himself according to his own typology - which was somewhat limited in how it was defined at any rate. I just feel I won't ever be able to have a strong opinion on his type.

and which type was Sabina Spielrein?
I don't totally discard the possibility of Jung being Ni dominant, because a lot of his theory is indeed in that direction - the tension of opposites in the psyche from which energy derives, the whole concept of the Shadow, synchronicity, his belief in the significance of dreams (he is said to even have shown some faith in what Tarot can do to unlock hidden content in the psyche). However Analytical Psychology is rather a Ti system. He's a complicated guess. Most LIIs have less interest in human psychology than in developing more abstract 'hard science' systems. ILIs are usually more pragmatic than that - dreams can only be indicative of some fears/wishes in the personal subconscious, but not related to a "meta" reality. Jung did have such a bent, one towards occultism and mysticism, which was one of the reasons why this relationship with Freud was severed. So of course there's still the possibility that he was a IEI with a very strong scientific background.

[Nevero]

He mentioned that he was primarily a Thinking type with "archaic" (meaning less developed) Intuition in both works and interviews. I think this interview might have it, but I don't recall.

archaic in jung's interpretation meant "existing at deeper levels of psyche" or in other words "original" which doesn't translate to it being "less developed" but shows that he viewed his intuition as constitutional. i looked it up on ref. lexicon of jungian terms and what struck me as odd is that his own interpretation of this word had blatant parallels with his own description of introverted intuition:


"Archaism attaches primarily to the fantasies of the unconscious, i.e., to the products of unconscious fantasy activity which reach consciousness. An image has an archaic quality when it possesses unmistakable mythological parallels. Archaic, too, are the associations-by-analogy of unconscious fantasy, and so is their symbolism."


calling his intuition as "archaic" jung means an intuition that functions by "associations-by-analogy of unconscious fantasy" and "possesses unmistakable mythological parallels". isn't this how Ni is conceptualized in socionics? this is all too far-fetched and contradictory as an account of Ne.

[xerx]

archaic in jung's interpretation meant "existing at deeper levels of psyche" or in other words "original" which doesn't translate to it being "less developed" but shows that he viewed his intuition as constitutional. i looked it up on ref. lexicon of jungian terms and what struck me as odd is that his own interpretation of this word had blatant parallels with his own description of introverted intuition:


"Archaism attaches primarily to the fantasies of the unconscious, i.e., to the products of unconscious fantasy activity which reach consciousness. An image has an archaic quality when it possesses unmistakable mythological parallels. Archaic, too, are the associations-by-analogy of unconscious fantasy, and so is their symbolism."


calling his intuition as "archaic" jung means an intuition that functions by "associations-by-analogy of unconscious fantasy" and "possesses unmistakable mythological parallels". isn't this how Ni is conceptualized in socionics? this is all too far-fetched and contradictory as an account of Ne.

Well alright, maybe "less developed" is the wrong choice of words, but archaic functions are still more associated with the unconscious than waking reality. A big component of Freudian psychology is the idea that inappropriate actions or beliefs are repressed and driven into the unconscious. Jung took that a step further by suggesting that conscious extraverted functions "repress" introverted ones and vice versa.

Model A attempts to emulate this with its distinction between conscious / unconscious blocks (superid = Animus/Anima Archetype; id = Shadow Archetype(?); both unconscious), but without the robustness of the former.

Btw, I have no problem calling Jung something other than INTj in Socionics -- Socionics element descriptions are built around more palpable qualities that don't necessarily resonate with the more etheric functions described by him. Socionics is a mechanistic system (or attempts to be) on every level.

Fun fact: both agree about Kant's type ( Ti-base ). The guy is as predictable as a clock or something...

[Kill4Me]

ILE

[Kill4Me]

Added: https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/ili-ni/

The VI best fits ILI-Ni.



Not coincidentally, Jung displays a similar output of force as other Socionics New Wave exemplars for ILI-Ni.







Ni/Te converts inner worlds into new modes of thought.

[Soupman]

Not coincidentally, Jung displays a similar output of force as other Socionics New Wave exemplars for ILI-Ni.

Ni/Te converts inner worlds into new modes of thought.

I'm going by socionics britannica's "podlair" inspired view of "Ni", were he's a clear example of an interpretive-perceiver (as opposed to directive-perceiver). Interpretive-perceivers interpret the world so they end up with a distorted view of reality.

And that is done on a "theoretical framework" so you never see where exactly he's coming from (this annoys objective "Ne" information types because they like to verify such interpretive views with observations).

Secondly SB's new view of "logic" is interesting - conceptual reasoning (conceptual-logic) is what the so called "F/ethical" types have. Those types are logical but aren't interested in "factoids" as much as the idea they push. Jung's "logic" isn't a precise adherence to facts and it shows which is why his reasoning isn't easy to explicitly articulate and follow. (Which is instead something SB's "pedantic-logic" "T/logical" types have hence much more explicit and precise - you see it clearly in both NTs & STs, NTs apply their precision to fantastical ideas)

The guy is information-wise IEI but with clear Delta quadra values, given his humanitarian and empathetic angle, unlike the beta conquest-idealism combo

[vesstheastralsilky]

ILE ENTP-Ne

THE VISIONARY FUTURIST per my archetypes list.

[Tranquility]

I always thought he was an LSI. I believe that's what he typed himself as, at least. He obviously was a introverted thinking type, based on his introverted thinking definition. It was very well written out, unlike the other types, and had many examples of both positive and neurotic manifestations of thinking and feeling in this type. Also, his creation of an abstract structure to later apply to reality screams Ti as a leading. As for the sensation as a creative, I'm not as certain, but he is most definitely either LSI or LII.