INFp visionaries

[Singu]

I just watched the new "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward" movie (ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011), which features Jacque Fresco. The movie advocates what Fresco is basically advocating, which is called the "Venus Project" or whatever. I don't necessarily agree with the ideas presented with the movie, but there were some interesting ideas. It was kind of too radical and idealistic for my taste, but basically, I thought the movie was rather INFp, and maybe anti-Te or anti-Si, or whatever. What the movie does is it actually advocates the overthrowing of the current currency system, in favor of a currency-less "resource-based economy". That sort of thing is maybe... Beta. Fe > Te? What I didn't really like about the movie was that perhaps in the stereotypical Beta fashion, it gets too... lofty? And the talks of a "revolution" and all that, which gets messy. Obviously, not all Betas are like that, but they can be.

Jesus Christ... I just realized that nutcases like Jared Lautner have ate this stuff up and killed a bunch of people. These kind of ideas can be dangerous... when it's handed to the wrong kind of people.

A third that I think is worth mentioning is Karl Marx. It is rather strange and dubious thing that people are so strongly inclined to slap the ENTp label on this guy given that he has been dead for more than a century and most of the information available about him is at least as old. This kind of certainty doesn't fit the epistemic difficulty in establishing his type. I suggest INFp as an alternative typing:

Yes... that's what I thought too. I don't know too much about the guy, but it's like, come on. His whole ideas are kind of too idealistic, and authoritarian. Now, I'm not saying that ALL INFps or Betas are like that, but they can be. His idea of transitioning from Socialism to Communism seems like the typical "to make an omelette you'd have to break a few eggs" kind of thinking that some Ni/Se types entertain in. Again, not all Ni/Se types are like that, some will become wise enough to realize that human lives and values are more important than their lofty ideals about the future. But if you focus too much on Ni, as you will, then you can forget about the moment and focus too much about the possibilities of the future.

So, basically, I think that there are many INFps, who identify themselves as the so-called "futurists", who paint a fantastic picture of the future and get everyone to get excited or motivated toward that goal. I think that they can be either very successful or unsuccessful, have a very novel or destructive goals and ideas, depending on how grounded they are. Obviously, not all INFps are going to be either too idealistic or lofty. In Socionics terms, maybe we can say that they are "developed in Te or Si", or whatever. Or maybe we can just say... that they are more grounded in reality.

[krieger]

Let's also not forget the the violent overthrow of classes was always a part of Marx' ideas. People like to say that Marx was the perfect example of a naive Alpha type that had his ideas usurped by Beta, but it wasn't like that. Marx was no kitty. He really saw revolution as a violent, bloody act from the start.

A lot of that runs counter to the image projected by the description of Si/Ne quadras in socionics.

My personal impression of ENTps is also that they are rather a-political and uninterested in societal movements and political dynamics; i.e. they just want to be left alone in a stimulating environment and come up with ideas, not get involved in all this political tug-of-war. Marx was something different. Precipitating the political movement was his pointed intent all along.

[Crispy]

My personal impression of ENTps is also that they are rather a-political and uninterested in societal movements and political dynamics; i.e. they just want to be left alone in a stimulating environment and come up with ideas, not get involved in all this political tug-of-war.

I don't know about Marx but from watching the new Zeitgeist movie this is exactly what Jaque Fresco is advocating. He says all political organizations are inherently corrupt and outdated. The Venus Project was made to turn the world into a stimulating environment where ideas will be freely exchanged and the problems initially caused by political dynamics are removed. He really sprung out to me as ENTp upon first impression. Also the ENTIRE film was anti- and pro- at every corner (Eliminate power/authority to bring good health to all). It surprises me that a decisive type would be suggested for him.