On the effect of I/E shift on the taciturn and narrator cycles

[krieger]

i am 100% in alignment with Gulenko on this.

[tcaudilllg]

Consistent with my experience as well. I remember when my INTJ mom took an MBTI test and scored ESTJ. She immediately concluded that there was something wrong with how she was relating to her work, that a part of herself so important had been compromised by environmental pressures. But she does do the delegation thing decently well... although unlike an ESTJ, she ended up doing the lions share of the work herself, where an ESTJ would probably just restrict themselves to the management end.

But Lab this is interesting, because you seem to be questioning model A itself at this point. However, I do resist making plans that specifically involve other people, unless they ask me for direction.

[Trevor]

These taciturn narrator cycles work like a charm when it comes to people who are a mixed subtypes. aka balanced subtypes. The others? What about the others?

[EyeSeeCold]

These taciturn narrator cycles work like a charm when it comes to people who are a mixed subtypes. aka balanced subtypes.

Agreed. I'm a believer. Took me a while though.

[FDG]

Yeah, it's good. Now that I've had time to observationally digest the matter, it seems to work perfectly.

[Aiss]

So there's a claim of superficial type "change" happening depending on circumstances:

For example, an INTj, once in a management setting, will be prone to decentralize and devolve/delegate authority the same way an ESTj would. But an INTp, by contrast, will develop authoritarianism, like ESTp would. An ENFj in a social environment, to gain a foothold there, will be prone to moralization, like ISFj would. But an ENFp will go towards accommodating, the same thing ISFp does.

And relations within each cycle happen to be mirage, semi-dual, super-ego (with super-ego always being opposite each other in a cycle).

From socionics masks article:

Semi-dual
This "mask" is associated with learning problems.

Mirage
This "mask" is associated with the problem of inner freedom: restraint, the inability to make an independent move, stress, escape from reality into a world of illusions. Internal stress accumulates in the person, which he does not know how to manage. As a consequence, he creates a tense atmosphere for others, withdraws into the world of illusions: computer communication, which replaces real life, or computer games, the feeling of being lost, disconnected from reality.

Super-ego
This "mask" is associated with the problem of survival. The person does not live freely, but "survives" and does what he "must", not comparing this with his strengths and abilities. No balance of work and rest necessary for recuperation.

I didn't go through each pair to see how it matches, but at the first look it seems like the same thing might be the source of both. One interpretation might be more accurate still, of course, for example it might be that cycles are "closed", that is, only three of those masks ever happen, or that cycles only show the most popular masks while all are possible.

[krieger]

are those three relations the only ones capable of forming a "mask"? if so this could well be getting at the same phenomenon.

[EyeSeeCold]

I'm stuck between :

ENFj-INTj-ESTj-ISFj-ENFj (taciturn, rational, negativist cycle or "temperament")
INFp-ENTp-ISTp-ESFp-INFp (taciturn, irrational, positivist cycle or "temperament")
ISTj-ESFj-INFj-ENTj-ISTj (narrator, rational, positivist cycle or "temperament")
ESTp-ISFp-ENFp-INTp-ESTp (narrator, irrational, negativist cycle or "temperament")

And :

ENFj-ESFp-ESTj-ENTp-ENFj (Process, Extravert, Taciturn cycle)
ISTj-INTp-INFj-ISFp-ISTj (Process, Introvert, Narrator cycle)
ESTp-ENTj-ENFp-ESFj-ESTp (Result, Extravert, Tactiturn cycle)
INFp-ISFj-ISTp-INTj-INFp (Result, Introvert, Narrator cycle)

There's no conclusive evidence to suggest either one over the other.

[krieger]

the second is just wrong. Rational/Irrational is a deep, structural trait. Extrovert/Introvert is just a superficiality. i will cease exchange with you if you ever raise this issue again.