"Disagreement"

[stray]

So.. I'm kind of disturbed by a post I came across. I'd like to get to the bottom of it.

Originally Posted by CILi
Don't know if anybody'll see this, but anyway:

Is the inability to disagree with what other people say (even when all logic suggests otherwise) indicative of a certain type, function, PoLR, or something?

YES. It means you're definitely not a type; probably an introverted ethical type.

I would guess EII or SEI. But if you really are anxious about health etc. I would say EII.

^Is this true? I've seen the agreeable behavior in Enneagram 9 like workaholic said in that thread, but it's hard to agree with otherwise. As for Fi doms, lets take the more "colorful" example of "disagreeableness". Why are ESIs, for example, able to be very critical?

"ESIs tend to evaluate people's ethical behavior "as it is" and not "as it could be" or "as it could be interpreted according to the context or another person's point of view". That means that they can be perceived as unrelentingly harsh, even unforgiving or vindictive, when correcting, punishing or even avenging what they see as unethical behavior, especially betrayal of trust. "Evil must be punished" or even "destroyed" is one of the ESI's mottos."

"Accordingly, the ESI is very confident in spotting when another person is "spoiling" a group emotional atmosphere without noticing it, and will discreetly warn that person if the ESI judges it to be advisable in that situation. However, the ESI does not regard such social missteps as a character flaw in the person, and may even be reassured by this kind of awkwardness.

The ESI's ability to merge into a pleasant social atmosphere if he sees no strong reasons for not doing so, and yet actively go against it if he considers it called for, may be perceived as intentional "bitchiness" by those more sensitive to Fe."

Additionally, how do intertype relations even apply across all types if some are intrinsically agreeable? How can an ESI ever operate as an SLE's supervisor, or an ENFp conflict with ISTj? How about when people make a post that expresses disagreement - are they a closet type? Is anyone who relays a story about arguing with someone at work or has an opinion on any political situation or even wants to make a correction on some mundane procedure in daily life a Ti type? I'm not just being rhetorical here - Honestly, it's thrown me for a loop. It isn't my system, so I'd like to understand it clearly.

[FDG]

An ESI will rarely outright disagree with you in person if you don't know him-her well. Even if you know him-her well, he-she will generally disagree only if he-she wants to make a really strong point. Generally IxFx types are quite unsettled by disagreement.

[Aiss]

I don't think there's a clear correlation with socionics type. Maybe some with enneagram, but even 9s are often like "no, no, let's look at it this way..." in a mediating sort of way, working out a compromise. If it makes sense.

Though I kinda agree with thehotelambush that F types may be more likely to not argue against something which makes no sense (regardless of what they think) for the sake of smooth communication or relations. I've often heard that it doesn't matter if it's accurate or not, can't I just nod and be nice and sociable? No, sorry, I can't.

[krieger]

When I "disagree" with someone/something, it feels more like a choice than like a real commitment. In this particular sense, I can not disagree the serious way.

[stray]

When I "disagree" with someone/something, it feels more like a choice than like a real commitment. In this particular sense, I can not disagree the serious way.

I don't have a commitment either. For the most part. When I disagree, there are concerns for "truth", but it's not "ultimate truth". I'm up for correcting myself if it comes to that. I just voice my thoughts when I'm looking for consistency, when someone's incorrectly labeling something, or when I'm saying some method won't work. I'm not big on debating, but it comes out in these subtle ways. I try to respect people and not go overboard.. I get where some of these other F types are coming from, but it seems to be on a more intense level. This is what I would think is just type 9. And not all F's are type 9. Why would an 4-individualist or 1-idealist not want to disagree?

On another note, what type is Morgan Freeman? I saw that socionix typed him as EII (and I don't know if he is now.. it's not a bad choice though). I thought this video illustrates an emphatic disagreement with some issue - but he's creative in his solution to it too. Is Socionics so extreme that this guy must be Ti?

[Slacker]

I'd say I generally try to not outright disagree with people, or at least not state my disagreement. Two reasons - one is fear of confrontation or argument, but the other is that I try to find some place for us to come together, like some area where we do agree, instead of focusing on the disagreement.

[stray]

I'd say I generally try to not outright disagree with people, or at least not state my disagreement. Two reasons - one is fear of confrontation or argument, but the other is that I try to find some place for us to come together, like some area where we do agree, instead of focusing on the disagreement.

I can understand that, and do it to an extent, but I also associate (or associated) Fi as another abstract layer of ethics, that supercedes the interpersonal area. I'm coming from MBTI btw, so it seems to line up.

It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life’s situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, “Sometimes, some things just have to be said.” On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.

Some things just have to be said. And this is something I've been doing since I was a little kid.. I didn't really "grow into it" so to speak. Sometimes it came out in amusing ways, even at a young age. I remember there was a teacher in the 4th grade or so who seemed to like bouncing girls on his lap a bit too much. I was aware/imaginative enough of scandoulous things going on about that, and it pissed me off. So one night I actually broke into the school, and urinated all over his desk, in his cabinets, etc.. It was an immature thing to do, but I had a habit of "disagreeing" like this. Then it transferred later into confronting bullies, then into jobs.. I remember one time I even caused a little insurrection and got five other people to quit with me. I riled them a bit because I thought the employer need to feel some consequences to his attitude, and my own quitting and "disagreement" was not enough. I had to get others to do it too.

Now I don't know what type I am. I'm not as Se oriented as an SLE or SEE exactly. Maybe ILE. It doesn't round right, but maybe these are the types most associated with these kind of antics. Not sure.