What? No he doesn't.Originally Posted by Saberstorm
You have a very poor perception of who people are.
What? No he doesn't.
You have a very poor perception of who people are.
ok.
I do.
No, I don't.
I don't care if Walt Disney is in my quadra or not. I don't think he is my identical. I'm not emotionally attached to the typing. Yet you are.
From what I know of Walt Disney, he was an ENFp and there is a breadth of evidence for this, such as all Disney movies being directly influenced by his style and carrying Delta overtones. He VI's perfectly as an Fi-creative too, and while there's a small window of possibility that he could've been ESFp, I don't think it's likelier than ENFp.
Disney movies are delta things: because they are propaganda designed to brainwash children, and deltas are essentially brainwashed children. BUt that doesn't make the creator a Delta.
Ok...
Pooh is Delta NF
Tigger is SEE
Piglett is probably LSE lol, always chiding Pooh
Gaston, definitely EJ, not SLE...LSE probably, only they could be so proprietary about women. Belle is IEE and Beast is SLI, I guess.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
The Hunchback of Notre-Dame is probably my favorite Disney movie. It’s a complete bastardization of the Hugo novel, but they do get a lot of it right: the darkness and injustice of the times, Frollo’s sexual obsession with Esmeralda, even some of Hugo’s humor comes through. Also, I think the musical score is probably in the top 3 as far as Disney films go. I mean, look at the juxtaposition of "Heaven's Light" and "Hellfire" -- chills, I get:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r9xNKHOekM
Here are my typings:
Quasimodo: EII
Esmeralda: ESI
Phoebus: SEE
Frollo: No clue. He doesn’t seem like an ethical type. Or really extroverted… not sure. The man was just pure unadulterated corruption. Much less nuanced and complex than in the novel.
Clopin: EIE
In the novels, though, I think Esmeralda is EII and Phoebus is a stereotypical SLE. Quasimodo in the novel is untypeable because he’s basically mentally handicapped. Frollo is… a really intense and interesting character in the novel. Not sure about his type. Similar to Javert in Les Miserables, but much more intuitive > sensory. If Javert was LSI, Claude Frollo might be LII? Or even an EII turned bad? He really sacrificed himself for his brother Jehan (probably SLE) and took in Quasimodo out of a compassion and duty to God to make up for his brother’s lasciviousness. Yeah, I’m actually liking the evil EII for Frollo, lol. (BTW, if anyone is interested in reading the novel, I highly recommend Alban Krailheimer’s translation. It’s amazing.)
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Frollo is LSI imo in the movie. In the book he's EII. Imo Quasimodo in the book is SLI.
Yeah, LSI for film Frollo makes sense. And I can see SLI for book Quasimodo from the way he tried to care for Esmeralda after he rescued her.
Edit: Just found this video of the soundtrack ampedup over the finale with the Latin text translated. Holy shit this is even more epic than I remember, lol. Alan Menkin was robbed of the Oscar for Musical Score that year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwl3qrNxQ1s
Last edited by Animal; 05-19-2012 at 04:29 PM.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Quasi is not EII, IMO because when we're the extreme odd person out, I think an EII is more likely to react quite unproductively. I think he would need the help and support of someone to be self sustaining movement/propeller of action; otherwise, if I were quasi, I would have killed myself long long ago and catering to the town by being the bell ringer wouldn't be something I would care much about at that point; it's not like I'm saving humanity from a tragic attack by ringing bells or getting my moral message across in any meaningful way.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
What about Pocahontas? Been a long time since I've seen it, but I would go:
Grandmother Willow: IEI
Chief: SLI
Raccoon: SEI
I'm not exactly sure about Pocahontas..."Just Around The Riverbend" kinda seems like a Beta NF song, but then "Listen With Your Heart" makes me think that she might be Se leading, she needs someone to tell her to stop and listen to herself. Also she's a bit of a daredevil, diving off a cliff and all. Kokoum is LSI, and her conflictor, which works. But then I don't have much interest in typing John Smith, which makes me think he has to be Delta as well. Or is it Gamma that I have no interest in? I've confused myself now.
Or wait, are all the wise old mentors (Rafiki, Grandmother Willow) actually EII is Disney world? In that case, Pocahontas could be ENFp, John Smith could be ISTp, and Kokoum would still be LSE and not the first choice.
Jungle Book
Mowgli - Really not sure, maybe IEE, ILE, EIE? Pretty bank slate-ish. Anyways, 7w6 so/sx.
Baloo - ESE-Si 8w9 sx/so
Bagheera - Some Fi type fo sho, not SEE; probably EII-Fi or IEE-Fi.
King Louie - Beta Extrovert, maybe EIE-Ni 8w9
Shere Khan - EIE-Ni 8w7 sp/sx, like all Disney villains, it seems...
Colonel Hathi - LSE-Te
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Ah, Jungle Book.
I would have thought these two were different:
Baloo - SEI-Fe -- Seems very into the laid-back life, taking in and fully enjoying the "little things" with great relish. Not as active as I think of ESEs being.
Bagheera - EXI (not sure which; I'm not sure of either Ne- or Se-PoLR in him)
baloo SEI; bagheera LIE; king louie Beta extrovert
How is Baloo an introvert? He reminds me so much of more than one ESE-Si I've known, even down to the voice actor...he's a little too "here let me take you under my wing" to be IP rather than EJ, IMO, and more bombastic/expansive than any IP I've encountered.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Bagheera LIE? No wai mang...just no wai...obvious Fi ego is obvious, IMO. EII seems like the best bet.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
baloo lives Si lifestyle in jungle relaxing by himself floating in water tending to his bear necessities and singing loudly then he eats some fruit and scratches himself and most importantly he waits for those bear necessities to come to him and is real chill about it all ... he wasn't all going everywhere in the jungle looking for people and learning who all the peeps are, and always on the move getting shit done (he's a lazy bastard that baloo) ... they just all kind of come his way sometimes, just like mowgli did ... after mowgli showed up he tried to teach him the Si bear necessities lifestyle and get himself a friend but that ahole bagheera showed up and ruined it pointing out all this stuff baloo doesn't wanna think about like long term stuff and how it's not just about him and how much he enjoys mowgli's company, and finally he just had to see it bagheera's way because bagheera was right.
well about bagheera i don't have anything supporting to say regarding say ESI vs. LIE and i could always change my mind
I hear Gilly's voice very vividly in my head just by reading his posts.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
For some reason I really like that. So thank you
Btw you should get in touch with user Sarinana. Last I knew she was on a similar adventure...and she's hot.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
The latter opinion I had heard of but her adventurousness is fuel to my increasing spark of interest. However, she didn't reply anything to my post on her "Hello!" thread so I might avoid any further contact. I'm, after all, somewhat reserved without responsiveness.
What comes to me hearing your voice; it might be due to the factor that you make referance to similar culture I'm very fond of, like South Park.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Turns out her adventures have ended in Whales.
Fuck yeah. South Park is awesome, maybe the closest thing we have to "American Culture." Oh and dubstep. X_x
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
The more fucked up the Land of the Fearful and Incarcerated gets, the more awesome it's counterculture will get. GTA series, South Park and other such entertainment has delighted my mind for long when it comes to critisizing the outdated world we live in. Many aspects of the system errors in the first world are culminated in the Babylonian brothel that is the United States of America.
First we must burn the Old World to make room for the Garden which will use the shit of today as manure of tomorrow.
This turned A BIT offtopic.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Yeah South Park is awesome.
GTA is kind of an odd thing to mention, though, lol.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I know but it's actually very critical about society.
It's basically a parody of the American Dream.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Makes sense.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Been watching some Disney stuff lately (I am a hardcore Disney whore), B&B (Beauty and The Beast) is definitely EII&LSE...
I am actually unsure about the Delta status of the Beast. In a way, he seems rather too harsh. I agree with EII for Belle.
Founder & President of World Socionics Society
http://www.facebook.com/groups/worldsocionicssociety
EJ + ST + E8 maybe = I could easily see this resulting in a "harsh" personality
what's even more confusing, is the gloriously charming and sweet man he transforms into in the end... haha.
so far i think of the beast as follows:
originally - vain, cruel, eie-ish disney a-hole
beast transformation - disney's harsh misguided male character who needs an NF to soften him up
back to prince - such a loving sweetheart! he just loves everyone now, not just belle
it's all so confusing
maybe he was always eie?
I love Disney movies and collect them. One of my favorites is "Fantasia". I lost count of how many times I watched it. I prefer Grimm's fairy-tales though, even as a child.
I also loved reading Hans Christian Andersen's work. I remember reading the little match girl over and over. I felt like she was me.
http://jacobdunn.com/2010/the-differ...tian-andersen/
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Now you confused me about the sociotype of my family member! I was leaning to LSE today in another thread but now I am not sure if he is EIE or LSE. He was married to an EII which softened him and made him kinder. Thanks a lot inumbra.Beauty and the Beast is their story in many ways. hahah
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
well, fortunately your family member is more complex than a disney character. or maybe that's "unfortunately" ...Now you confused me about the sociotype of my family member! I was leaning to LSE today in another thread but now I am not sure if he is EIE or LSE. He was married to an EII which softened him and made him kinder. Thanks a lot inumbra.
What's so EIE-ish about his assholery? Seems like an understandable character development when you're a hideous dog-beast-thing and you steadily lose your capacity to love another after having gone so long without it.
I don't recall him being particularly "sweet" when the film is done either. Hell, I remember next to nothing about his character transformation other than "oh cool I'm normal again"
clearly, i remember the film better than you do. i watched it over and over again after it came out. also, you didn't apparently read my post well. as a beast he's a different kind of asshole than he was before he became the beast. the movie begins with the tale of the vain selfish prince rejecting people on the basis of their external looks, among other things, i'm sure. the witch came to him because he was well-known for being this kind of person. he treated all of his servants in this way too. as a beast, he's a more volatile asshole, more harsh, and animal like. then after belle saves him, he's embracing everyone in the castle, enthusiastically declaring their names as though he *always* so deeply loved them. but i can see ignoring the before-beast and the after-beast on the basis of both those "scenes" being so brief and uninformative. but i am skeptical of this character.
eta: not to mention, that i think one of the things belle fell in love with about him was that there was someone gentle buried under a harsh exterior. but after he turns into the prince again, there isn't any harsh exterior at all anymore, just a really sweet person. somehow, i wonder if belle would still be all into that. i just felt like he wasn't himself anymore in the end. disney had had their way with him. i mean, belle *did* fall in love with the uncouth, uncultured animal. but apparently, that animal was only a feature of the spell itself? neither before-beast nor after-beast were uncouth and uncultured. before-beast was not innocent--not one who is naturally too harsh and knows not what he does. he was *deliberately* cruel. after-beast has lost all hint of that cruelty, as though his heart is like a child's again.
maybe really this is a more complex story of transformation, and *that's* the point. through the animal spell, he was able to recover himself before he became so bitter and cruel. had no one loved him as a beast, still he would have been innocent in a way that only an animal or a child can be (something his vain former self had lost). perhaps, either way, the witch thought this was better.
so putting this together, i suppose i think that the transition from before-beast to after-beast may actually make sense. but 'the beast' himself is actually the character misrepresentation, due to the imposing of animalistic qualities onto before-beast's person. as to why an NF like EIE seems to resonate to me with before- and after- beast... i'm bad at such explanations.
(unfortunately, i had to just keep elaborating on this... :/)
Last edited by marooned; 09-21-2015 at 07:13 PM.
Fair enough. In my defense I haven't seen the film in several years and never got too deeply into it.
well, also in your defense, i have spun it into an overly (unnecessarily) complicated mess.
Last edited by marooned; 09-21-2015 at 11:10 PM.
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