According to Gulenko, something like this:
Beta: to suffer and conquer.
Delta: to help and protect.
Gamma: to cooperate and acquire (or attain)
does anyone know Gulenko's motto for Alpha?
Quadra Mottos
According to Gulenko, something like this:
Beta: to suffer and conquer.
Delta: to help and protect.
Gamma: to cooperate and acquire (or attain)
does anyone know Gulenko's motto for Alpha?
What's your source?
I'm all for peace but I don't like working in teams. Also, acquire what? That's pretty ambiguous.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
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Fidei Defensor
http://www.socionika.com/agenda.html
"To reflect and to delight in." for Alpha.
Material wealthOriginally Posted by EyeSeeCold
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Hehe I don't really know. The object of desire could be anything Se is going for I'd imagine.
Gamma: To prosper with your loved ones.
ά - To reflect and delight in
β - To suffer and conquer
γ - To collaborate and acquire
δ - To protect and help
To prosper with loved ones seems very much what Gamma is. To collaborate and acquire seems fitting too.
Gamma is very much about material wealth, as far as I can see IRL.
Beta people often strike me as idealistic, and I think they rebel in the off chance that whatever's created from it, if anything, is somehow better.
My understanding is that no one likes to suffer, however the difference for Betas is that they are willing to suffer for a purpose, not just aimless suffering. The purpose for Beta STs comes from the Beta NFs - their Ni helps them to believe in their fantasies, gives them purpose and meaning so that they can strive for it, while their Fe helps to keep their spirits up during these hard times.
A Beta suffering for no reason, no purpose is a dying Beta.
I think that suffering for no particular reason or cause is more in line with Delta. For instance, if you go to companies, most of the positions of the lower levels, the 'dogsbodies' are comprised mainly of Delta types. They don't need that aspiration to achieve something better, some purpose, instead they are quite happy to go in day after day, with the menial tasks, happily getting caught up in the daily details of it all. You might find some Betas at this level, but they aren't really 'there', their mind is somewhere else, something else to idealise to or aspire to, rather than the daily grind going to weekly, monthly and forever.
Correct me if i'm wrong?
Last edited by Words; 11-04-2010 at 08:58 AM.
x
To which quadra belongs Robocop?
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
--> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
LOLTo which quadra belongs Robocop?
I think your descriptions of Beta and Delta are generally accurate, but your understanding of suffering is a little off. Deltas who work these "menial" tasks are not suffering -- they actually enjoy a hard day's work. There's no negative emotions being experienced there. Betas, on the other hand, while they of course prefer happiness to suffering, would rather suffer than feel nothing at all. Intensity of emotion is what's important to them.
Funny you should mention that, I just watched that movie for the first time the other day. I typed Robocop as SLI.To which quadra belongs Robocop?
Quaero Veritas.
You mean the 1987 version?
I thought he/it was ESI, but now your SLI makes more sense to me
BTW
Lewis = SEE
Sergeant = LSE
The Old Man = LIE
Dick Jones = LIE
Bob Morton = LIE
Johnson = ILI
Clarence Boddicker = SLE
Leon = LSI
Joe = EIE
Emil = SLE
Steve= LSI
Unemployed person = ILE
Gas station nerd = LII
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Yeah, it always seems a problem to me, using one word eg suffer to describe such a big concept. Personally I don't like any type of suffering that I can think of.
Perhaps in Beta, in an emotional sense, the NFs like to suffer over feeling nothing, and the STs like to make the other suffer, as it shows they feel something, rather than nothing. Although when it gets a bit deeper, eg like this, my understanding of it becomes vague.
(this is the first time I've used that multi-quote feature so forgive me, I think these are in the wrong order)
I think you could be right about that. But of course we know that what's created from it IS BETTER!!!! lol
yes yes yes.My understanding is that no one likes to suffer, however the difference for Betas is that they are willing to suffer for a purpose, not just aimless suffering. The purpose for Beta STs comes from the Beta NFs - their Ni helps them to believe in their fantasies, gives them purpose and meaning so that they can strive for it, while their Fe helps to keep their spirits up during these hard times.
I don't think the beta STs *like* to make the other suffer. They are able, however, to contribute to the intensity of any experience, good or bad. And they enjoy these intense emotional experiences that kind of mark their progress through life, to their goal(s). They enjoy recounting that later, even when it was really bad and it stands out in their memory as being an important happening. This is not to say that betas look for suffering, only that they're often willing to pay the price to achieve their vision, even if that means lots of hardship. My brother and SIL (IEI/SLE) own a business and have been self-employed their entire working lives. It's been a HUGE rollercoaster. They've been successful but they've also had lots of dramatic set-backs. But they absolutely would not have it any other way. Working for someone else is too boring and limiting for them. Their spirits would stagnate in that type of environment.
IEI-Fe 4w3
an INTj would have kicked those thugs' asses.Gas station nerd = LII
And blow the place up themselves cause it looks cool.
More on Betas and Suffering.
Perhaps it also helps to point out that betas see suffering as an inevitable consequence of experience (full experience), and as such, the fact that we continue to suffer is proof that we are still alive (that is, still capable of full experience). The only difference between SLEs and IEIs is that SLEs seek to experience or know everything external, whereas IEIs seek to experience or know everything internal.
Betas don't necessarily enjoy suffering as such... but suffering is the best route to experience, I guess.
The rebellion is just a natural consequence of seeing the chaos in things. When you notice how chaotic things are, regardless of how sane and secure they seem to be, you're eventually going to reflect that chaos in some way. The act of faith is to believe in a deeper level of order behind the chaos ("deeper magic from before the dawn of time")... but in order to get there you have to go into the abyss and keep tunneling...
Now that I think about it, both suffering and conquering are seen as inevitable by beta quadra values (especially beta irrational): conquering is necessary because things will be in a constant state of fighting, and since you're always going to be fighting, you might as well be on top.
Also, re: happiness vs. suffering, betas do prefer happiness to suffering, but they also prefer "truth" (in the idealistic Ni sense) to happiness. So if I must lie to myself to be content, I will refuse that, and rather experience the full suffering in order to experience the full truth.
Not every beta is an end times prophet, of course. This has to do with deep values, how you ultimately determine to live your life. Shrug. I'm not going to talk about this any more 'cause I'm not making sense. Sometimes I wish I could just sit in solution and think, and have my thoughts in their raw form pumped out directly into other people's brains, and they as a team would figure out the best way to communicate the thoughts in language.
Betas are never quite sure whether deltas are intuitively aware of the deeper magic from before the dawn of time (as we are intuitively aware of the deep magic from the dawn of time), or if they're just distracted by glittering surfaces. Especially INFjs. They're confusing.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
I'll try making up some mottos.
Beta: "We are the champions."
Gamma: "Pay me."
Alpha: "Numerical charades, anyone?"
Delta: "I'm home!"
Yeah I think the same way and I'm alpha. "To reflect and delight in" is the motto that probably fits me the closest but it doesn't mean I never think/do any of the other ones. Sometimes I feel some guilt towards overdoing my motto as if I should be doing something more productive in society. And I certainly don't want to experience hedonistic pleasure if its going to be at someone else's expense.
Yeah, I first read that beta motto and I was thinking, who in their right mind would want to suffer? I can see where Silverchris is coming from but that it so not me.Yeh I guess thats why it is clear im in opposite quadra of Beta or the very least opposite to its values. I never saw suffering as a positive thing, im very averse to any kind of suffering. And every time I hear that suffering is positive and somehow makes us more human and whatnot it makes me eyeroll. Conquering part is meh but at least I understand it although I much more prefer cooperation.
As for Delta ones they sound ok, although cheezy but more or less as cheezy as others.
I think I'd rather feel nothing at all than suffer. I avoid intensity of the negative sort. Which is why I'm not beta and I'm clearly a -Fe valuer.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
That's gay. Why would I wanna suffer? A better Beta motto would be:
"For Victory! And for the Lulz!"
What do these signs mean, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Alpha: "Whoa"
Beta: "Fuck"
Gamma: "Damn"
Delta: "Darn"
I'm still not sure of my type yet, but I can certainly agree with Beta's focus on suffering and silverchris' interpretation of it.
To use a physical analogy, suffering, for me, is like being in a sauna: its hot and its stuffy, and its certainly unpleasant, but at the same time, it lets you sweat out all of the poisons and nasty junk that's been collecting in your system so that you can feel calm and nice and alive when you exit and sit in the cool night breeze and sweat evaporates right off you into mist.
Being melancholy sucks and I hate it, but at the same time its perversely enjoyable since it helps me to seize upon my frustrations and my feelings of inadequacy and just wring them all out. I feel a hell of a lot better after going through it. Like I've come through the Long Night ready to face the New Dawn, or something hokey like that.
So, its not like suffering is a fixture of my life, just a phase in the predictable cycle of my emotionality.
Quaero Veritas.
Shucks.
Rap Mottos
Beta: "Never let a nigga take me out my zone if he try it them blow him and go with no remorse kid itīs the cold hearted."
Alpha: "Light another spliff."
Gamma: "We form together to acquire what we desire."
Delta: "Police, donīt move or Iīll blast your head off. I love it how all you fucking rappers think you're so tough."
Gammas are Voltron?
lol
itīs in a Cypress Hill song... the Beta quote is from Mobb Deep's 'Get Away'.
...no.
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