Sylvia Plath

[Braingel]

A noteworthy pattern is that Qaz has mistyped two IEI social 4’s who have faced significant childhood trauma and who would have cptsd as 4D Fe sensors.. I have no idea on Plath’s SCS type though. My best best is that Qaz misconstrues his cptsd can affect someone overtime and cause personality altering, making someone’s inherent leading functions seem lesser like their type, and how shadows can ensue. It may also be the bias of his own experience, not having enough childhood abuse cases in 1D Se types and falsely attributing the visceral reactions to higher dimensional Se, and his own bias and spite of Se ignoring and polr Fe, that make him unable to look at this elements in actuality, well.

[Braingel]

The Narcissistic Parent – Licensed Mental Health Counselor



How black magic killed Sylvia Plath | Sylvia Plath | The Guardian

Sylvia Plath was a huge narcissist and she was involved in some kind of satanic magic so, whichever type worships the devil and kills themselves to get at other people. Probably EIE in socionics? Anything beta NF. Not surprising given the stereotypes.

that’s not npd, that’s bpd what you’re describing in the context of “getting at others”.
She would’ve also had a case of complex ptsd theming around loss.

[Braingel]

I actually believe it’s ubiquitously believed by mental health professionals, including ones who specialize in borderline personality, that she had this condition (bpd). I would’ve said cptsd with bpd features. Bpd and npd overlap, but aren’t same.

[Braingel]

That whole quote does have narcissistic elements, but it ultimately sounds bpd to me, because it’s also a self-devaluation, even if she believes it “love”.

It sounds like an envy of those who have received care.

[Braingel]

A narcissist doesn’t split on their own self. She says she loves herself, and yet says she hates what reflects her inner world and devalues characteristics and qualities about herself. Highly borderline.

[Braingel]

And yes, C-PTSD and BPD look Fe base and SEE, but they aren’t. They just cause behavior that can look Fe and Se.. And Fe-.. But this is a maladaption to trauma and abuse. All cptsd and bpd will cause a person to have 4D Fe and Se ish and EIE ish behavior, but this doesn’t make a person of this. It has do with emotional dysregulation and outbursts and emotional hemorrhaging. Which look sometimes less intuitive, because it’s on impulse. You’ve to look at how a person was before they became traumatized, or know who they are well via personal interaction. It’s rather pointless to be typing a person with severe enough cptsd and/or bpd.

[Braingel]

“Quiet bpd” is like modern socionics Fe ignored borderline.

[necrosebud]

It has been a while since I read it but maybe sensing
I have read several of her poems and her prose (bell jar)
for the latter I remember feeling perplexed at the seeming choppy/staccato and lack of any overarching organization/idea/vision (or maybe I just read it that way) just one scene after another very sensing very devoid of intuition
her darkness come from being a 4

also extreme sensory focus (setting and environment) in her writings as opposed to the richness of the abstract self that I would expect of NFs but it might also be SP

[Braingel]

In cptsd and bpd emotional dysregulation, it’s important to realize that the amygdala is damaged from trauma and/or abuse. It has nothing to do with cognition, other than maybe an Fe ignored borderline would have that dysregulation internally. This can make an IEI and SEI borderline, so have Fe in the ego, look and behave EIE-SEE area, and maybe ESE in some models. You can’t assume this behavior is exclusively on function placements. You’re dealing with an amygdala whose skin got all bit off and burnt away and is can only hyper react to guard itself when it’s touched.

[Braingel]

And even a quiet borderline esi/eii would still have emotional outbursts. That can show up when dysregulation happens enough.

[Braingel]

A noteworthy pattern is that Qaz has mistyped two IEI social 4’s who have faced significant childhood trauma and who would have cptsd as 4D Fe sensors.. I have no idea on Plath’s SCS type though. My best best is that Qaz misconstrues his cptsd can affect someone overtime and cause personality altering, making someone’s inherent leading functions seem lesser like their type, and how shadows can ensue. It may also be the bias of his own experience, not having enough childhood abuse cases in 1D Se types and falsely attributing the visceral reactions to higher dimensional Se, and his own bias and spite of Se ignoring and polr Fe, that make him unable to look at this elements in actuality, well.

This is pivotal in Qaz’s bias. It shows he has a hard typing traumatized enneagram 4 cores with complex formative year trauma. And assumes this as “4D Fe sensor”.

[Braingel]

It has been a while since I read it but maybe sensing
I have read several of her poems and her prose (bell jar)
for the latter I remember feeling perplexed at the seeming choppy/staccato and lack of any overarching organization/idea/vision (or maybe I just read it that way) just one scene after another very sensing very devoid of intuition
her darkness come from being a 4

also extreme sensory focus (setting and environment) in her writings as opposed to the richness of the abstract self that I would expect of NFs but it might also be SP

While I haven’t read the bell jar, my impression of what I know about her is that she was an INFJ who was into a reversal of ESTP..

She had a deep case of clinical depression and cptsd with borderline features and never was in her healthy default state.

[Braingel]

Intuition is quite evident from her early childhood and onward with visionary focus, and this is what matters make before childhood trauma jacked her inherent faculties. https://mcgrath.nd.edu/assets/316752...lvia_plath.pdf

She was very unhealthy and primarily lived her early adulthood in her estp grip/reversal and enfp shadow.

[Braingel]

Intuition is quite evident from her early childhood and onward with visionary focus, and this is what matters make before childhood trauma jacked her inherent faculties. https://mcgrath.nd.edu/assets/316752...lvia_plath.pdf

She was very unhealthy and primarily lived her early adulthood in her estp grip/reversal and enfp shadow.

I’d say second page of this describes Plath in a highly shadowed or gripped state.

[Braingel]

What I personally noticed is that John Beebe directly overlaps Aushura. I had shown my findings to eastern socionists, and they’d agreed. This would mean if beebe is aligned with Aushura, that shadows, grips and loops are literally also apart of socionics their own self. Gulenko calls things type shifts, but they wouldn’t be the correct types that you go into.

[Braingel]

I wrote things in wrong thread. I wrote out more thoughts on Plath on page 8 of here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...90#post1596190

[Braingel]

Seven deadly sins as personality disorders:

Pride: Narcissistic personality disorder
Envy: Borderline personality disorder
Sloth: Dependent/avoidant personality disorders
Wrath: Paranoid personality disorder
Greed: Schizoid/schizotypal personality disorders
Gluttony: Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder
Lust: Antisocial/histrionic personality disorders

Best option: Don't do any of these things.

Everyone engages a deadly sin or them plural, just at lower severity for most.

[Braingel]

And you also are so stupid too, that you don’t know jack about shadows, reversals, loops, and this sort. Intuitive types can literally reverse into sensory functions amid stress or loop them, and sensors can intuitive.. irrational leads can become opposing thinking and feeling looped.

And the fact you used to see me as eie (even though that is wrong too), before I got even more unhealthy with fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis just further shows that I’ve been gripped. @qaz00. But you don’t listen and never will, because you’re a thick skulled, psychologically inert Si base 9 that is unhealthy and can’t get his ass out of his head past his own experience that’s biased and clouded with his own shit stain. And smear and touch others with that typing crap on your hands and label.

Both the EIE typings of me and your even worse SEE one stem from my severe complex ptsd with bpd feature emotional dysregulation. That isn’t even inherent to my personality and that is completely maladaptive.

[Braingel]

To even have others confuse my abuse reactions with who I am makes me want to harm myself, but I am not going to do that.. one day though, when this world gets tougher for me, I may.

And much more it makes me have these wishes, when a person has called me literally delusional for viewing myself as I do, when he is the one who is literally conflating my abuse impact with my personality. And when he disregards everything I say and show as if it means nothing, and yet he has the audacity to view me and compare me to others he uses a false example for.

It’s just disgusting. I don’t even believe people realize the impact this has on me.

[Braingel]

You can say this is my fault for being in the community, when I have open wounds of invalidation, gaslighting and severe, pathological image issues, but.. I didn’t honestly expect for people to have such hideous views of me. I didn’t expect people online to be the way they are.. And this is making me tearful. I am not just talking about this website or typology for the ladder statement, I’ve been treated like dogshit and slandered by many people for my reactions to trauma and for some views I’ve had, and I’ve evolved them and have my own takes, but my parents have taken my access to those sites.

I don’t like comparing myself to others, but to just make a point for others to grasp, because I don’t feel they would otherwise, my harassment online is sort of like with Chris Chan’s.. But of course milder scale. I got super viewed on some places. Counting people in my life, I’ve been harassed and/or abused maybe 500 people. In person, this would’ve been over a hundred something, counting 12 schools, 6 facilities, sports my parents enforced me, ABA interventions and my immediate family, maternal side of family and my father me brother who is imprisoned now lifelong. The rest of that 500 or about would have been from online people. Primarily taking place on YouTube, discord and Quora, but I got put other places and it’s nasty. I haven’t even bothered to keep up with all the harassment and avoid it, because it hurts my mental health and would just flare my fibromyalgia and rheumatoid A.

I have theory of mind issues and am socially aloof. I didn’t expect people to be like this.

I am socially awkward with extreme interests (autism fixations) in aromatherapy and enneagram and also with 18-25 development.. I make a lot of social errors and often get into trouble because of this, because I never had any friends growing up or any social interactions beyond being harassed and just otherwise plain ones with people barely engaging me, but not being mean, I never got socialized well. I am so awkward, introverted and fixated on my autism special interests, this makes going just anywhere extremely difficult. I used to go to a clairvoyant circle prior COVID, and I was treated well there and viewed gifted, but this circle went away after the pandemic. It was all 45+ people mostly, and I was at time a teenager and the only one aged such.

I do not mind being alone, but I desperately want compassion and love. I have never been given this, and I am at a point where even a mild act of kindness wouldn’t absorb in me and would go right through. I am love starved.

You can say my autism predisposed me to more trauma, with me having atypical reactions and make social aloofness and making mistakes that have wounded me into the nets of social errors that feed on trolls, bullies and pathological people with high dark triad traits.

[necrosebud]

I know ppl might blame someone for “putting themselves ina situation” but I tend to view it as a deeper desire for potential transformation/integration of self that mysteriously pulls one into these situations

and also when I experienced gaslighting and bullying online I didn’t even realize I was being abused for a long time. So it was all disjointed and guts strewn everywhere metaphorically so why didn’t I put myself together and leave? I literally didn’t understand what was happening. Eventually I did! There are so many reasons for things like these

I know enneagram says self expression which can also be a “reason” but I kinda find the first one ^ more interesting/have a bit more potential maybe

[youfloweryourfeast]

I have also had temper issues and have yelled at both my parents who are sensors, because I was upset at the time, and like simply anyone could interpret that as a type like call me ESI for that so. It also because sensors can be more dominating with their words in environments thus its not exclusive to just se egos.ect.,

[necrosebud]

https://youtu.be/g2lMsVpRh5c?si=BdkwInPJ1GTwPd9d

https://youtu.be/aPbCHUqD294?si=j_-X6cYEoCQpwfT0

[Braingel]

I would like to introduce grip functions and also John Beebe’s shadow model.

For now, I will just provide this grip information: https://www.psychologyjunkie.com/inf...ur%20feelings.

I will be directly quoting John Beebe’s book, so people can have the actual literature.

[youfloweryourfeast]

Any type can be a narcissist or appear so and not just EIE or labeling this as beta nf n creating this wrong stereotype

[Braingel]

Here is how shadow functions work, and one of a few reasons why a very pathological individual may seem lesser like their own type (there is also a grip and a loop state this wouldn’t cover). This has do with why most people have thought me an EIE. As in cognitive-based typology, I am FiNe (IEI modern socionics, EII classical). I have unhinged access to Fe.

One of the shadow archetypes of consciousness, the opposing personality, consists of a cluster of defenses of the self that are used to oppose, rather than one and work with others. The opposing personality fuels the defensive character styles— passive aggressive, paranoid, avoidant and histrionic— we sometimes see in our patients. Deployed internally, this consciousness can end up opposing one’s own best interests in perverse ways.

-John Beebe, Energies and Patterns in Psychological Type, page 58

This has everything to do with why I have become more overt emotionally and less reserved, in response to my trauma, opposing my inherent Fi. This has do with my histrionic, emotional displays and fits (4 core down into 2 also represents this)..

Sylvia Plath, I do not know her type in classical socionics. I can tell you that she was most likely an NiFe in cognition, though, who would’ve had a dysfunctional NeFi (perhaps what flower/E was seeing), and a fall right into ESTP. Sylvia Plath was highly suicidal and pathological and wasn’t in her natural functions.

[Braingel]

The shadow

With his deceptions, manipulations, and rule flouting, the trickster can be an effective archetypal force for self-defense in a dangerous world, but his is not the only available approach. Sometimes we fend off threats by pulling rank, by identifying and pointing out the opponent’s weakness, with chilling, withering remarks. This is the bailiwick of the senex archetype— the critical, saturnine, old man, who metaphorically speaking, paces up and down inside each of us, waiting for his chance to put troublesome people in their place. Or we may respond to perceived danger in still make unconscious ways, undermining and devastating a potential enemy through actions, formulations, and revelations that are nearly as surprising and unexplained to us as to others. This is the work of a part personality, or archetype, that I call the demonic personality. Or finally. /3 may defend ourselves through avoidant or passive-aggressive actions including seduction, of through direct attack, the realm of what I call the opposing personality. These four archetypes— trickster, senex, demonic personality, and opposing personality— comprise, in my judgment, the cast of characters that make up the enormous region of individual personality that is repressed by most people— what Jung called the shadow.

The shadow is repressed because it is felt to be incompatible with a person’s moral values. It retains, and from time to time expresses, feelings, motives, desires, and ambitions that the person has long since decided are unworthy, because they do not accord with the individual’s idea of how people should feel, let alone behave.
Since it usuallt is not owned as part of the person, the shadow has a great deal of autonomy, which allows it from time to time even to escape repression, so that it can act out the very striving that the ego has rejected as incompatible with its standards. I have found it helpful to think of the shadow as the ‘ego-dystonic’ part of our consciousness. Just as the ‘ego-syntonic’ personality will develop over time, so too does the shadow develop in the course of life, differentiating itself in ways that are decidedly contrary to the ideals associated with the ego’s usual identity.
The types of consciousness deployed by the shadow are precisely the ones not preferred by the ego-syntonic parts of the personality. For example, in a person for whom extroverted thinking predominates, introverted thinking will be in the shadow.

-page 57-58 (John Beebe Energies and Patterns in Psychological Type)

[youfloweryourfeast]

She may be some depressed xSI LSI idk

[youfloweryourfeast]

It must been bc she was forced to use se and te in life, some things creating depression manifestations and her writing is her intuition self

[Braingel]

This has everything to do with why I have been typed as an EIE for the past 3 1/2 years in the community. In truth, I am an FiNe in psychological-based typology, not an NiFe. I should really change my typing in my IME to EII, but the thing is, I wouldn’t be an EII in modern socionics, because of how differently defined it is from classical Aushura. I am an EII in SCs, with mental Fi, Ne, Se and Ti and vital Ni, Fe, Si and Te. Though, my Si does like to act mental sometimes. I would have “eternal Si child” in Beebe, which is why I love to play around with others in aromatherapy and whatnot, and in infantile uses of my Si.

[Braingel]

This has everything to do with why I have been typed as an EIE for the past 3 1/2 years in the community. In truth, I am an FiNe in psychological-based typology, not an NiFe. I should really change my typing in my IME to EII, but the thing is, I wouldn’t be an EII in modern socionics, because of how differently defined it is from classical Aushura. I am an EII in SCs, with mental Fi, Ne, Se and Ti and vital Ni, Fe, Si and Te. Though, my Si does like to act mental sometimes. I would have “eternal Si child” in Beebe, which is why I love to play around with others in aromatherapy and whatnot, and in infantile uses of my Si.

People have observed me in my shadow state.

If you will ever have bothered notice, my Fe NEVER works in harmony with others. This is a direct opposition to my inherent mode. My trauma controls me at my ENFJ shadow. I bleed out FeNi from my trauma and abuse. Now, as far as sensory looking at times, this would have do with my grip and reversals. I sometimes reverse into an ESTJ, this is why I can get bossy and dump pure facts and whatnot.

I fit every placement of a John Beebe INFP— I have Fi competency and mastery as my leading, my heroic function that is my best aptitude, Ne good parent, looking out for the potentials of others, always giving possibilities of why something can be, and with providing hidden alternatives to others that aren’t apparent, Si eternal child and play, Te anima, with my whole societal aspirations to enforce my own ideals from my hero function, in a utopian world.. Opposing Fe REALLY fits me. And arguably, this function has a great reign over my life, likely having do with my semi personality-disordered self (borderline), that is an extension of complex ptsd.

[Braingel]

My Fe works against my own self and others. It is never harmonious. Until I can healthfully learn to integrate Fe into my conscious, I will have my cptsd fight mode, I “fight” with Fe. I don it fight with Se. It’s Fe dramatics and histrionic displays, vitriol emotional outbursts, histrionic displays of my own self that land me in trouble and that go against my inherent Fi lead. My Fe is not 4D. My Fe is 3D and it’s in a spot that is exceedingly un harmonious and that cannot use to my advantage.

[Braingel]

I have told people over and over, this isn’t my real personality. This is a reaction to trauma and abuse. All my abuse and trauma holds in my opposing Fe cognitively at a lead, and feeds into the senex, trickster and demon.

[Braingel]

Even how I went at Qaz was oppositional Fe. I was fighting him, speaking for the collective that the community does not need him. That is a collectivistic, generalizing inclusion of everyone. I was spilling emotionally loaded pejoratives, that were devoid of physical action, movements and appearances, which is Fe>Se.

The truth is that I am FiNe. But in modern socio, you’ve to have me as beta NF, because how function placements are defined aren’t representative of how they are in beebe or in aushura, which are closest to how someone’s true essence and its processes unfold are.

Fe is my “weapon” that causes me discomfort and even works against my own self and shoots me in a process.

[Braingel]

John Beebe’s model may be the only one that is currently able to accurately type someone amid severe, complex and chronic trauma. With complex ptsd and personality disordered features.

[Braingel]

So. I am a classical EII, and I am a modern IEI, with how that system shifted, and an IEI is actually closer to a classical EII.

[Braingel]

When I made my enneagram aromatherapy sever and assigned oils as symbolism to one’s essence, this was a great example of eternal child Si. How I believe essential oils are able to cure a bunch of means and are a panacea is very eternal child Si.

[Braingel]

How I try and relive memories of certain pleasurable means that aren’t vivid is eternal child Si, as is how I want be taken care of in all sensory ways of pleasure. And will fantasize comfort sensory rooms.

[Braingel]

Whatever personality you have is your real personality. Nature and artifice come together like two poles of a magnet. It's one thing to argue that you're misunderstood or defamed, and another entirely to argue that you're not actually yourself.

johnirons: A translation of Goethe's sonnet about nature and art

My point is in that the FeNi isn’t my true function use and that’s an adaption to trauma and abuse and is my shadowed zone. It is where my trauma behaviors show up.

Half the people on this site try type me as FeNi. And it is wrong, even though FeNi is a set of maladaptive function use for myself with my shadow. I have “oppositional Fe” (Beebe term, Beebe is a direct extension of Jung)

You can argue that FeNi is a set of my personality, but it’s not my inherent default.

[Braingel]

I think her book "The Bell Jar" expresses her personality and not really her poems, and the book I read most of it but not the end, it shows her condition/cognition. I would highly recommend those to read this to understand her. She has NiFe in her shadow and uses Ni, but I think primarily herself is expressed first from Ne and Fi.

Ne: Gaining the inner concepts and content shows the person ability to see the potential energy of one's shadow, they are constantly studying underlying phenomenon, he/she becomes scientist/writer, and can find many to of increasing potential energy of objects. Enjoys discussing idealized circumstances or what could be rather than what is has high standards those around self
I can see some aspects for InfJ how ever it seemed she was more-so with people, she didn't really talk about great isolation, and had a lot of relationships why I think IEE more, and yes she was functioning in unhealthy way why people think she uses sensing when she was in stress. Not only she was far better at crafting some kind of image of herself which fits Enfx more for her and wanted to show this to the world, not very introverted in my opinion how she outputs herself too in interviews did not come off as shy, even if she express how she was lonely of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbNcRhxfF-A
- A here she is reminiscing and uses images with Si inferior, talking of psychological depth Ne-Fi, expanding sounds very NF talking about magic ect...then says she became more realistic and depressed..cannot see how she is not showing intuition
I also don't really see great usage of Fe for EIE and not IEI even if she cognitively can use Ni and Fe strongly, she expands in her writing with Ne.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM4ie9lQOyY

things Abt Sylvia and her writing
There were, of course, many fine impulses and a most commendable initiative in her nature; but everything in her seemed to be perpetually seeking its equilibrium and not finding it; everything was in chaos, in a state of agitation and restlessness. Perhaps the demands she made upon herself were too severe and she was unable to find in herself the necessary strength to satisfy them."
"she traces in these poems of the relationship between the poet, the beehive, and the beekeeper. She moves from her father as beekeeper in the three pre-Ariel bee poems to an image of the village midwife as beekeeper and finally to herself as beekeeper in Ariel"

Plath directs the symbolic significance of the bees and the beehive toward her relationship with her father. In "Lament," an awkward early poem, her father is described as a god-like figure oblivious to storm, sea and lightning, who was nevertheless and ludicrously struck down by a swarm of bees. "

Why should she feel any relation to it? But more crucially, there is in Sylvia Plath's work no imagination of the future, no utopian or even anti-utopian consciousness. There is a dialectical consciousness in her poetry of the self as simultaneously object and subject, but she was unable to develop in her particular social context a consciousness of herself in relation to a past and future beyond her own lifetime.- Ne
The previous onset of depression, at the age of 20, was associated with overwork and failure to get into a Harvard writing class on which she had set her heart. To begin with, there was a constant dissonance between the bright, buoyant, high-achievement persona whose ideals of success, social status and domesticity are conveyed in the letters to her mother, and the dark sense of isolation and inner emptiness that finds expression in her journals and poems. ‘No matter how enthusiastic you are,’ she wrote as a young student, ‘... nothing is real, past or future, when you are alone in your room’, and later ‘I look down into the warm, earthy world... and feel apart, enclosed in a wall of glass"

NeFi in NiFe shadow isn’t impossible