How to attract women:
1) have a hot body
2) have a lot of money
3) let them know you have more women in your life
4) be famous
5) put some magnet in their clothes and switch on a magnetic device
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Alright. Super creepy that you posted my name and not sure how you know my name.Delete it. Or @mods- mind editting it out from her post? (Bc you and I have never talked) (as I so graciously asked you in pm what you were referring to in regards to your vague, strange post above). To which you respond here instead. And yes, I do stand by my post that you overreacted at FDG's post. Just as you are overreacting to my post.
*edit: confused threads-- name is mentioned in Mirror thread.
Last edited by blackburry; 10-02-2015 at 01:25 PM.
Quite nice insights especially the last line is correct. I noticed it in myself at some age that I used to predict on forehand what kind of reaction a certain sentence would give to another person before i said it. It's even more pronounced in writing. Also I once worked with an ENTJ/LIE where the difference was striking. He was explaining stuff in a way that was more like spilling out words, so he got rid of them, but he had not thought of whether i would understand his words. But the ILI usually thinks and searches for the right words, so the opposite side understands what is being said. I guess subtle button pushing is second nature for ILI. They secretly play with it sometimes. They are usually very aware of what kind of impressions they will activate in the other.
It was a shit analogy.........was trying for the Gotta be a Gamma to understand, glad you picked up on it.Took me a minute to get what you meant with the black thing i almost thought you were pulling a race card on me... Jk
I almost understand the caregiver attitudes and then i date an SLI and cringe. I'm a grown ass woman please do not even try cutting my steak for me i will put you in friend zone so quick...
Also, when people try to court me assertively my response internally "HELPPP"
Lmao yeah the romantic attitudes are very accurate.
The romance attitudes are stunningly accurate. Yes
Trying isfj on for a little while?............please tell
YES. The way you go on about the Ni/Se perfection.......I totally hear you. For me it feels like your favorite and softest sweater..........fits and feels perfect. I read your enthusiasm and nod, I can tell you fully believe in the quadra dynamics..........so do I.......fits and feels perfect. We are frustrated actors who has been playing all the wrong roles and now we have this amazing script with this amazing character that we feel we were born to play, and we understand his failures and his heartbreak and his frustration and we know that all he wants is to be happy, he just never knew how to do it and this new script shows him the way. This story has a happy ending.Previously (before Socionics) i did not know or have words for these preferences. It was just a bunch of confusion
Liebes,, das ist wunderbar.As a Victim type, it is good to see some people actually appreciating the "challenge" I make myself to be. Those who don't like it just judge this behaviour as "playing hard to get". But they don't get it. I am not playing; this is real and authentic, I can't be anything else! I am not even consciously thinking to myself: "Okay, I will do this and that just to play hard to get." I do it naturally, unconsciously. I believe this idea of "having to play hard to get" is a realization by non-Victim females, whose crushes were Aggressor males disinterested in someone not "challenging enough" (and likely too Caretaker-ish).
I could see most other Victims relating to this feeling that oneself is the main challenge, and the little challenges in order to "get me" are the steps towards the top. Essentially, those challenging tasks are ways to test the strength and worthiness of the (Se) pursuer.
Now, in regards to male Gamma NTs with female Gamma SFs... Their challenging is much more subtle, than the one employed by female Beta NFs with male Beta STs.
As @hatesyardwork has illustrated, male Gamma Victims show their challenge in being (mostly) unapproachable, and (seemingly) unfazed by most of the things anyone does to "seduce" them. @carrina has nicely described the Aggressor's response to that as this endless "poking". The Gamma Aggressor keeps poking the Gamma Victim. Especially the female SEE will do so, and with the male ILI she'll think all the while: "Why is he not responding like a normal human being, is he dead?! (I have to find out!)" Gamma SFs find great pleasure in "(re-)animating" the Gamma NT. By being physical with the ILI (e.g physical touch), the SEE will try to bring the ILI out of their physical apathy and immobility, first and foremost. Whereas the main goal of the ESI will be to "animate" the LEI's conscience (Fi) through ethical stirring: "Do you really think that way? Don't you have a heart? It's truly immoral, you should know better! This is how it is right..."
So... I could see SEEs, male or female alike, being attracted to people who seem "immovable" and removed from the natural flow of life. Someone who seems very much to be their own microcosm internally (Ni lead). You could say, someone who has an "otherworldliness" about them. (SLEs and LSI-Se are likely to find this intriguing, too.)
The ESI may find a similar despondence attractive as well (esp. when Se subtype), but their main attraction would be to someone who seems to be in need of help with matters of the heart and/or morality. Someone who seems so polished, accomplished, knowledgable, directive (Te lead), but has got that vulnerable soft spot they guard so strongly (weak Fi).
EIIs are drawn to a similar person, given their dual is also Te lead and Fi-seeking. The way the interaction with their Dual, the LSE, plays out is different, though. The EII will attract the LSE by exuding a Childlike disposition, someone in awe of wonders in the world, while being extremely concerned with properly taking care of people/humanity, usually through humanitarian efforts (pseudo-caretaking). The LSE will take on the responsibilities of a practical Caregiver more and more the closer he gets with the EII, thereby removing the stress that has accumulated in the EII. Also, the LSE won't "play games" as much as the LIE will. The LIE is much more more "immovable" like the ILI (Ni/Victim), and by doing so tests the ESI. The LSE may seem "immovable" emotionally because of weak Feeling, but not physically nor erotically – the latter applies much more to the ILI and LIE-Ni. There is no to little "testing" of strength with the LSE; their Dual is not supposed to be "strong" anyhow, having Vulnerable Se. When the LSE is interested, they are more prone to let it be known, whereas it can be a guessing game with the LIE for as long as you have not "convinced" them of your worth yet (Victim mindset). EIIs will be confused by such an attitude and likely experience low self-esteem as a result, whereas ESI will find it intriguing and stimulating, making them want to "prove themselves".
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Reads like an essay.
I think all types do something similar in their own way. (matched to the types they desire, or think they desire)I could see most other Victims relating to this feeling that oneself is the main challenge, and the little challenges in order to "get me" are the steps
towards the top. Essentially, those challenging tasks are ways to test the strength and worthiness of the (Se) pursuer.
Lack of Fe makes things seem stiff. But nuances and all that.Now, in regards to male Gamma NTs with female Gamma SFs... Their challenging is much more subtle, than the one employed by female Beta NFs with male Beta STs.
As @hatesyardwork has illustrated, male Gamma Victims show their challenge in being (mostly) unapproachable, and (seemingly) unfazed by most of the things anyone does to "seduce" them. @carrina has nicely described the Aggressor's response to that as this endless "poking". The Gamma Aggressor keeps poking the Gamma Victim. Especially the female SEE will do so, and with the male ILI she'll think all the while: "Why is he not responding like a normal human being, is he dead?! (I have to find out!)" Gamma SFs find great pleasure in "(re-)animating" the Gamma NT. By being physical with the ILI (e.g physical touch), the SEE will try to bring the ILI out of their physical apathy and immobility, first and foremost. Whereas the main goal of the ESI will be to "animate" the LEI's conscience (Fi) through ethical stirring: "Do you really think that way? Don't you have a heart? It's truly immoral, you should know better! This is how it is right..."
Yeah.So... I could see SEEs, male or female alike, being attracted to people who seem "immovable" and removed from the natural flow of life. Someone who seems very much to be their own microcosm internally (Ni lead). You could say, someone who has an "otherworldliness" about them. (SLEs and LSI-Se are likely to find this intriguing, too.)
HAHAHHAHA. Sorry I know, you're being serious. But that just sounds so funny.The ESI may find a similar despondence attractive as well (esp. when Se subtype), but their main attraction would be to someone who seems to be in need of help with matters of the heart and/or morality. Someone who seems so polished, accomplished, knowledgable, directive (Te lead), but has got that vulnerable soft spot they guard so strongly (weak Fi).
ESI are very staunch, but kind of rigid. I think they want to help in general, it's just that a type like LIE gives them enough to keep them entertained or whatever it is they get out of it.
TBH, I think ESFp wear out most types. But INTp come pre worn out. And don't get more worn out.
Anything wrong with that?
Hm, good thought. I could see that. Everyone has some kind of internal checklist in terms of what they desire. Well, just with Victim-Aggressor people in particular it becomes like a tournament of sorts. With Childlike-Caretaker, it is more like literally going through a checklist at the doctor's, haha: "Got this? Yes? Okay, let's move on. How about this? Okay. Yeah. What do you think about this issue? Okay, I can work with that."
Haha, I know what you mean. I was trying to write down what an ESI in love with an LIE might think, haha!
It also sounded a bit weird to me, personally. I certainly would not think this way. xD
Yeah, true. ESI are more selective with their help, in a way. LIE puts them in the position of wanting to try harder somehow.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
At the very beginning of the relationship between my LSE father and ESE mother, she told him she wanted kids.
He: "How many?"
She: "A lot... like 6 or so."
He: *Is she crazy? Well ...*
He: "Oh, sure..."
They've got 3 kids. I guess they've made a compromise, and/or he was not being entirely serious back then.
Haha.
Last edited by Olimpia; 10-03-2015 at 10:56 AM.
Yeah, but it's unrelated to this topic
I see it more like a game?Hm, good thought. I could see that. Everyone has some kind of internal checklist in terms of what they desire. Well, just with Victim-Aggressor people in particular it becomes like a tournament of sorts. With Childlike-Caretaker, it is more like literally going through a checklist at the doctor's, haha: "Got this? Yes? Okay, let's move on. How about this? Okay. Yeah. What do you think about this issue? Okay, I can work with that."
I think it's like they see such potential, but need to make this and that improvement.Haha, I know what you mean. I was trying to write down what an ESI in love with an LIE might think, haha!
It also sounded a bit weird to me, personally. I certainly would not think this way. xD
Yeah it's from being wrong I think?Yeah, true. ESI are more selective with their help, in a way. LIE puts them in the position of wanting to try harder somehow.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The one LIE that I dated very briefly just wanted to hang around and be affectionate. He loved people and was observant and orderly but not aesthetic. I like that LSE are not that touch feely. Also the LIEs mind was always on far off ventures and tasks like traveling to Greece and taking a documentary of the country. I also like that LSE are homebodies. Makes me feel like I'm not going to be on the ship by myself. My dual will always have home and family at heart and under his direct control. Even if sent far away on a job will always want and miss home something that I see LIE less care for as they like ESI to man up and manage home life and all else.
Delta and Gamma Fi are a bit different with regards to how relationships are viewed and managed
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-03-2015 at 11:26 AM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I totally see that!
My LSE-Si father is E3 (Sp instinct), hence some kind of work-a-holic, but he enjoys coming home after every work day. His motto: "Home, Sweet Home."
He also dislikes travelling, partly because he'll "just waste money", partly because he is a homebody.
In comparison, I could see LIE guys more likely to invest in expensive vacations and whatnot because of their Se HA. Their Si PoLR also makes them care less about a comfortable home.
An LIE will probably just expect the ESI to take care of those matters, being Si 4D and all.
I wonder how the roles are in a female SEE - male ILI relationship... Does the SEE take care of household duties and go out all the time when she doesn't? While the ILI is mostly staying home – and possibly being a "slack", like @hatesyardwork has said? I am still contemplating how an SEE (or SLE for that matter) could be attracted to people who seem like they never go out? Haha.
It's a dual so my Se is activated, so I enjoy other company with them outside the home. I just don't like to entertain at my house, love to go out with SEE though, it's never dull. Inversely "home" to them is enriched by me, if that makes sense.
I wonder how the roles are in a female SEE - male ILI relationship... Does the SEE take care of household duties and go out all the time when she doesn't? While the ILI is mostly staying home – and possibly being a "slack", like @hatesyardwork has said? I am still contemplating how an SEE (or SLE for that matter) could be attracted to people who seem like they never go out? Haha.
Yeah SEE and company outside the home seems to be a thing. I like company at home. Mess up the place then go home and relax and I'll do the clean up
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Originally Posted by Maritsa
I also like that LSE are homebodies. Makes me feel like I'm not going to be on the ship by myself. My dual will always have home and family at heart and under his direct control. Even if sent far away on a job will always want and miss home something that I see LIE less care for as they like ESI to man up and manage home life and all else.
Delta and Gamma Fi are a bit different with regards to how relationships are viewed and managed
I travel a lot, both for business and pleasure. Business travel is not "just a waste of money", but rather brings in more money than it costs. I do like to be home on the weekends, though. Vacations are not an investment, but rather are ways to spend some time wandering around some places and cultures I've never been before, because I find that to be both fun and interesting.
Embarassingly true. I don't care that much about my comfort, and can live almost anywhere and not care about my surroundings. I've been to a lot of other countries, and slept in some nice places and in some sketchy ones. I do like to have a nice home, but only for abstract aesthetic purposes. Not for the comfort.
Exactly true. I'm presently tearing up the inside of my house to install radiant heat (a nice techy thing to have, also comfortable in the winter, and efficient) and to upgrade the electrical service and whatever else needs to be done, and I'm confident of my technical choices here, but I need someone with good taste to make the place look like something other than a factory. I have no confidence in my ability to make the place look like a home.
So, I've hired an ESI to do that for me. So far, she has suggested several "looks" for a room, I told her which of them I really like or don't like, she plans to modify whatever she thinks is necessary to fit into the space and, after the ceilings are back in and the walls painted (according to her color choices), she will go shopping to check out the stuff in the real world. That seems to matter to her, so it is OK with me.
It is a nearly perfect arrangement, and if I were married to my Dual, it probably would not proceed any differently.
So yes, an LIE would expect an ESI to take care of the aesthetic stuff.
Sounds about right but also sounds a bit sleazy and unobtainable for most ILI men out there, not to mention the blatantly immoral behavior required which would likely violate the mobilizing function of a "good" ILI. Hot bod is easy enough, hit the gym. Can't do that? Well, if you don't work out or research how to deal with that I got nothin' for ya. Work out, get buff, you can do it with just your own body weight and a steady source of protein which ain't hard to lock down if ya don't mind where it came from. You can eat Possums and Insects, just sayin', and they pack a ton of the stuff. Protein on the cheap, it's out there and if you're serious about this shit you ain't got a right to complain.
The rest is not as easy. Can we substitute time for money? If you're a minimalist you can have plenty of free time with next to no money. Thus you can "seem" rich on a bare bones budget. Time=Wealth, not cash. Saying that Cash=Wealth is a delusion. Yes, money can buy you time in many ways, but it is not the only path towards obtaining it. More women? Bitch please, we don't socialize enough to maintain a friggin' harem, let alone obtain one! Hell, why even bother? Harems are too much damn work and I ain't about to castrate some other dudes to make the eunuchs required to guard it while I'm away doing my own shit (while also being doubly damn sure I'm the only dick they're getting, which is why they made eunuchs in the first place). Fame? We're allergic to that! NO! No fame! Last thing we want is for some random douche to ask us for an autograph while we're out shopping for groceries. The magnets? Yeah, we have some, quite bewildered as to how they'd help us "detect" our ideal mate however. That's way out there and I thus would like an explanation.
Last edited by End; 10-05-2015 at 03:51 AM.
There are plenty of men who are in happy relationships without fulfilling most (or even all) things on that list.
Really, ILI guys (or all guys for that matter), it is actually much more simple than you think.
To attract the one you really want and is right for you, you have to be yourself.
Wait, what? Yeah, I know.
But really. An SEE woman will find herself drawn to a healthy and well-rounded ILI, who shows his strengths (like Ni-Te ) clearly and effortlessly, without a strain.
Given ILI is not a type inclined to be buff anyways, you don't even have to focus on that. Just be the best version you can be, and you'll attract the women/men you truly desire. Trust me.
Well, let's see how ILIs will respond to that. @hatesyardwork
They're being slow. Think need to tag some more. @End
I can agree with that. In the end, especially in romance, I want it simple, clean, and efficient. Why don't girls just kiss the dude they want to be with romantically? It's a very primal form of communication, it passes on a great deal of information without requiring words (and it feels oh so very nice ). Same goes for intimate moments characterized by the various non-verbal forms of communication involved on top of what words are said.
The problems come when we get into instinct stackings and the animal nature we all harbor. The damn monkey complicates matters, makes us think we've found "the one" when really we've just found someone we can procreate with. Everything is sunshine and roses until the honeymoon effect wears off in that event. Remember, the quasi-identical of the dual is the conflictor. So mistakes are bound to happen and boy will they hurt, a lot. Romance, the worlds most dangerous game...