I meant more memories related to events/experiencesOriginally Posted by Azeroffs
Depends on what memories you're talking about.types will remember things within the realm of
will remember things with the realm of
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Never memorize something that you can look up. --Einstein.
That's my mantra
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I have a good memory but I don't think that's the most important thing in life (creativity is probably more useful than a set of meaningless data); is this another fact that goes against my ILE self-typing?
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
--> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
I have terrible memory, especially for dates, heck I dont even know when the major holidays are or when is my brothers/mothers birthday...
On the other hand I do remember quite a lot of details of certain events, what I usually dont remember is WHEN it happened, I can be off by months of the actual event, or I can even mix up two related events. For example one birthday party was at the age of 23 and another at the age of 24, I can mix up which exact birthday it was, but will remember in detail what was actually happening. Somehow such data just doesnt register for me.
Same with directions, I dont remember street names, or house numbers or the like, BUT I do remember near what it was, like a certain shop or a interesting looking tree or where I met my friend or something like that. Somehow I find it easier to asociate to things like that than street names, heck I dont know the names of major street names in my hometown but I know every corner of it.
Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.
ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
The Ineffable IEI
The Einstein ENTp
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Yeah, of course you would. Dates is in the realm of Ni. You're Ni ignoring
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I don't have a problem remembering important or historical dates.Yeah, of course you would. Dates is in the realm of Ni. You're Ni ignoring
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Choose: a or b
a (supervision)
These relations are also asymmetrical as are relations of Benefit. One partner, called the Supervisor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Supervisee.
Relations of Supervision can give the impression that Supervisor is constantly watching every step of the Supervisee. The latter usually feels this control even if the Supervisor does not say or do anything. The explanation for this is that the Supervisee weak point is defenceless against the Supervisor's strong point. This makes the Supervisee nervous and expect the worse.
Although the Supervisor can seem self-satisfied, petty, faultfinding and narrative, the Supervisee pays attention to their actions and considers the Supervisor as consequential. The Supervisee normally wants to gain recognition and commendation from the Supervisor. However, it may seem like the Supervisor always undervalues the abilities of the Supervisee. This stimulates the Supervisee into proving their own worthiness with various actions, yet there is little chance that they will succeed.
The Supervisor sees the Supervisee as quite interesting and capable, but incomplete and therefore in need of some help and advice. The Supervisee does not respond to this aid as expected and this will often increase the Supervisor's attempts to change the Supervisee. Because the Supervisee naturally does not understand what it is that the Supervisor wants from them, this may irritate the Supervisor, who thinks that the Supervisee simply does not want to understand.
In relations of Supervision it may also appear as if the Supervisor patronises the Supervisee, which can be quite obtrusive for the latter. When there are more than two people present, the Supervisee often attempts to release themselves from the control of the Supervisor by starting arguments for the sake of it or by attempting to manoeuvre themselves into the commanding position. Unfortunately, these attempts lead nowhere. The Supervisor may think instead that the Supervisee simply requires more attention.
Supervision partners often look like good friends. The reason for this is that in these relations both partners can sense their social value: the Supervisor as a "guardian angel", without whom the Supervisee will get into trouble, and the Supervisee as the object of attention.
b) illusionary
These are relations of growing laziness. There are no other intertype relations that can deactivate partners so much as Illusionary relations. Illusionary partners find it comfortable being relaxed together, discussing different subjects. What one partner is talking about is always interesting, but in order to understand the partner better the other partner needs to force themselves. This difficulty in making an effort also makes achieving goals together almost impossible.
Mutual business or other activity is complicated, because Illusionary partners do not understand the reasons and motives of each other's actions. Whatever one partner tries to achieve usually appears insufficient and worthless to the other. Because partners expect different kinds of activity from each other, they become negative and may criticise each other's intentions and objectives. For an observer, this misunderstanding between partners can appear to be humorous.
The introvert partner usually tries to free themselves from the attempts of the extrovert partner to impose their opinions. The introverts seek independence. The extrovert partner wants to make their introvert partner into what they consider to be a "normal person". Both partners are distrustful of each other abilities.
Disagreements in these relations are usually short because partners are drawn to each other. From time to time Illusionary relations become really warm and caring. It normally happens when partners work together but not on the same task. Partners may feel inspired with the result of a successfully finished project, however when they try to start a new project, they again meet the same difficulties in co-operation.
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Removed at User Request
It seems we usually memorize mostly what we pay attention to, so I suppose IEs probably have influence on that.
Gulenko mentions memory in Forms of Thinking, but I'm not sure how it's supposed to work - probably only as far as the kinds of information we're attuned to or not are concerned, too. The difference he makes is between static and dynamic types.
1.1. Intellectual level.
Here the statics is to the dynamics as thinking fragmentary - analytical - is to thinking associative - synthetic.
Analysis, as it they treat in the majority of sources, this separation of whole into the fragments, clearly delimited from each other. Sense of analytical activity in the laying out of boundaries. However, synthesis akin to the associative property, by which are understood associativity, T. e. the association of two or several concepts by the illegible, but high speed service, when one of them, after appearing, immediately causes in the consciousness others. Integral synthetic means with the effaced internal boundaries as a result is formed.
The absolutization of the dynamic pole of thinking became the basis of the explanation of nature of mental processes in the theory of [assotsianizma]. First Aristotle advanced idea about the fact that the spontaneous means of consciousness can so tightly converge between themselves that form on the basis of contiguity, similarity or contrast the plural associations. Then J. Locke asserted that the ideas of any degree of complexity appear in the process of the association of simple sensations. In this case the association of ideas it contradicted against the purely semantic connections, which, in his opinion, were second.
And really [eydetika] it proved that with the aid of the visual associations it is possible to connect in the mind everything, anything. Here some of the eidetic the technician of memorization. They entered into the use even in the antiquity.
Ancient-Roman speaker Cicero for rote learning of his speeches by heart used the method “of tying to the locality”. It mentally spread information on the angles of its room, and then so mentally it returned to one or other angle or another and was extracted that required. Medieval monks - Dominicans, being trained to rhetoric, used the same method. They took familiar by it to the trifles road and mentally passed on it, consecutively spreading by means of the assertions, which should have been then presented before the audience. Coming out, they again mentally dispatch by this method, “raising” the decomposed there previously key concepts.
To the dynamic pole of human thinking skillfully beats contemporary advertisement. It is predominantly built on the mechanism of associations according to the contiguity (courageous cowboy next to the bundle cigarette) or to contrast (usual washing powder and advertised). In view of this in statics, if we judge by the criterion of motive to the purchase, advertisement influences much less than on the dynamic loudspeakers. Memorization in statics is more effective when material is structured by more rigid semantic connections. In this case each concept is fixed in its storage cell as in the computer.
Thus, the dynamics are more strong in the operation of synthesis (not simple connection, but confluence through the mixing), and the statics - analysis (not any separation, but stable - clear delimitation). The known pair of oppositions discretion/continuality is more connected precisely with the polarity statics/dynamics, than with the the customary rationality/irrationality. But if this is so, what is then the specific character of last dichotomy? Irrationality indicates situationality (predominance of context above the installation), and the rationality - regularity (predominance of the installation above the context).
Exactly!
In my opinion, ET types tend to have good memory. On the other hand, ethicals complain they forget things but aparently they do not even try to remember them!
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
If the OP's theory would be correct to some degree then I'm definitely
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
And Ne bases will be able to construct new Ne information from remembered Ne, etc.Depends on what memories you're talking about.
Makes me wonder if there's some sort of link between I/E and how memory-intensive elements are. Because humans obviously have limited storage space, right? Eventually you run out of space. I would think different elements leave less or more unused space.
I have a strangely good memory of information. I recently took a class with someone. They were always pissed about how I wouldn't study and often did just as well or better than them when they studied their ass off. In the right context I often recall random facts that I've heard somewhere. I don't always remember the source. I think I told you about how I don't remember my childhood very well. I do remember facts that my dad has told me about math and physics when I was a child every now and then. He used to give me logic problems to solve when I was kid, and he'd give me general facts to help me solve them when I couldn't figure them out.
I've read somewhere that we use a very tiny fraction of our brains. So yeah, it may be finite, but we certainly don't/will not use it all and may not know what it's to be used for.
I've also read that information your brain deems unimportant will be 'thrown out'. One once described it to me as a warehouse where sacks of memory are strewn about, and the seemingly useless sacks will be thrown out to make way for new ones by the janitors.
That would imply a socionics correlation to memory if a type with undervalued Te throws out real life facts it subconciously deems as unimportant or detrimental to Fe related memories which it would preserve in favor of the Te related information.
Socionics already claims that this already happens to an extent (undervalued Te, valued Fe); whether it's related to memory or not is not within socionic's means to say at this time.
I honestly can't remember the circumstances I was told told these things and can't account for their credibility, but I trust my memory
I read the same.
I've read somewhere in a type description that ILI's have the best memory.
Which seems plausible.
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If you see, say, and write something you're more likely to remember it than if you do one of those things in isolation. The more senses that are involved - the better the storage. Even though people are often better at one sort of memory storage than another, ie better visual than auditory, they are still more likely to remember that visual input with the added auditory input associated. They help each other. It's like when you run and jump you can get a pretty good jump, and if you jump off of a trampoline you can too, but if you run to the trampoline and then jump off of it, it's better than either in isolation, even if one of those methods by itself yields better results for you normally than the other.
It's like when someone tells you an address, and you write or type it down while repeating it to them, later on, hours and even days later you can easily recall the address from the picture on the screen/paper that's in your head and the sound of it in your ears. But, you can look at an address written down, get distracted by something else, and five minutes later have to check it again because it's gone.
Possibly. I have a good memory for numbers, unless they're years. For some reason dates in history don't have any meaning for me (although that probably has very little to do with socionics.) House and building layouts are easy to recall, and I can close my eyes and see various buildings and houses I've visited only once and walk through them in my mind, even if more than 10 or 15 years have passed. I'm not trying to remember any of it when I walk in, and it's not particularly important information, so I don't know why I remember it.
Not necessarily type related... (haven't read every post leading up to this one, sorry)
I think each type is going to have its potential strengths and weaknesses when it comes to memory. And even then, it could depend more on interest rather than functions. For instance, I love music and singing, and have memorized hundreds of songs (music and lyrics) that I can sing at a minute's notice (and btw, it drives me nuts to hear someone singing the wrong lyrics; I struggle not to correct them when I know I know the right words). Ask me to recall the quadratic equation, though, and I'm even surprised that I could just now manage to recall the term "quadratic equation," let alone tell you what it is...
My life's work (haha):
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
Input, PLEASEAnd thank you
Overkill guys. However it is true in that while processes do occur in these parts of the brains, we have no direct ability to affect them. However, it's been shown that once we become aware of certain body processes we can regulate it, i.e. listening to a heart beat allows the otherwise unaware individual to speed it up or slow it down without moving. How far reaching this goes is uncertain and hasn't been tested, but it could mean that the brain has potential to be used a lot more. <- Example of
Well given that the IEs have often been described as a lens to see reality it would follow that the world is a mix of subjective IEs. Whether or not it is us who are the subjective ones and not nature (if nature perpetuates the subjective IEs as objective values) is kind of ambiguous; I don't know if we could prove or explain it in favor of either one.
Right.
I think I agree with you… but then I suppose I'm not quite sure where you're coming from when you say this, so maybe I should hold off.
My conflict with this would be whether one regards IE-relevant information as something which exists 'out there'—i.e. as objective properties inherent to the natural world—or 'in here' as something which only meaningfully 'exists' in the context of a human mind to parse, interpret, and/or synthesize it ('metabolize' it). In which case then, so-called
I generally don't have that good of a memory. I find that most conscious memories from the first years of my life (that would be from about 0-6 more or less) are quite fragmentary. And most of my memories are quite vague and not vivid and I don't have a good visual memory at all.
And with movies for example, although I can appreciate some of David Lynch's movies and some of the stories and humanism, I often space out or get easily distracted with movies and find that I wasn't really paying attention at all at certain times. I can also get bored, and often if I'm watching a movie at home, I may often pause it at times, or have to rewind it or something because I wasn't paying attention. As much as I may sometimes try to appreciate Ni-things it can sometimes be a bit of a strain, and I often don't know if I really understand it.
I often have a bad short-term memory, and I may remember a variety of things from the past (usually not extremely distant past or early childhood) especially if it has some sentimental or personal value, or something that interested me. For example, I may be listening to a song, and I find that a melody or something in the song reminds of another song I heard in the past. And usually at first I won't remember what the other song was, until eventually I remember all of a sudden. Or sometimes I know there's a word I'd like to use or remember, and often I have to wait days more or less to remember the word, especially if I have a hard time searching for it. There are probably some times where I never find out what the word I wanted to use was.
Here are some interesting quotations on the brain and memory:
The Psychogenic Theory of History
'Since, as the neurobiologist Gerald Edelman has put it, "The likelihood of guessing how the brain works without looking at its structure seems slim," we will begin with a brief overview of brain structure. The brain is composed of over 100 billion neurons, with trillions of connections, dendrites, which are branching extensions from the body of the neuron that pass stimuli received by axons on to other neurons through synapses, the specialized connections between neurons. Since this synaptic activity is either excitatory or inhibitory, much of mental life and therefore also of the social life is either manic or depressive, and one of the main tasks of leaders, as also of psychiatrists, is to adjust through social projects the level of excitation of the brain. Memorization is thought to occur through repeated stimulation of synapses, making them grow bigger and stronger, as neurotransmitters are released across synaptic gaps. Specific memories are stored all over the brain, in a much more fractured way than a computer stores memory in many files. As with a computer, however, the crucial task is retrieval of the memory, using neural networks or brain modules that serve as "indexes" for the fractured memories. As discussed in the previous chapter, early emotional memories are indexed in a network centering in the amygdala, while the conscious self system is indexed more in the hippocampus and orbital prefrontal cortex, giving the brain the ability to retrieve information stored elsewhere and providing a "working memory" system that receives emotional signals from the amygdala. A PET scan of the brain, for instance, made during "free association" shows increased blood flow in this orbitofrontal area, thus showing why the psychoanalytic process can tap into uncensored private thoughts.'
'5:1 The human brain
The amygdala is predominantly excitatory, stimulating externally oriented behavior, and the hippocampus is predominantly inhibitory, comparing current information with existing knowledge. In current situations of danger, the amygdalan system is the first to make your muscles tense and heart beat faster, while the hippocampal-prefrontal cortical system will remember whom you were with and what you were doing during the danger, so as to be able to avoid it in the future. It is the growth of the hippocampus, prefrontal cortex and related areas that represents the main evolutionary development of self consciousness (beyond simple growth of cortical storage areas), allowing Homo sapiens sapiens to delay responses while comparing them to past experience and self concepts. When one dreams, one's amygdala lights up in the brain scanner like a pinball machine, as powerful early emotional memories are accessed and incorporated by the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex with current daily events into long-term personality modules. The hippocampal-prefrontal cortical and amygdalan memory systems are, in fact, the real "two brains" that dissociate more rational conscious self systems from unconscious emotional memories-not a simple "right-brain," "left-brain" split. The earliest regulation of emotion in a specialized amygdalan-prefrontal-orbital network first occurs during the mother-infant mutual gaze dialogues:
The common involvement [in infants] of orbital, temporal, and amygdala neurons in the processing of sensory (particularly visual) information of emotional significance has suggested that they 'may form part of a specialized neural system for the processing of social stimuli.'..The furthest terminus of this circuit, the orbitofrontal cortex, represents the hierarchical apex of this system. This is functionally expressed in its unique capacity to categorize, abstract, store, and regulate the practicing infant's emotional responses to the face of the attachment figure.
When emotional memories are traumatic either because the trauma was so early that the hippocampus was not yet functional or because it was so powerful that the hippocampal-prefrontal cortical system couldn't fully register it-they become permanent, dissociated fears of anything that might resemble the traumatic situation. Traumas that are inescapable because of helplessness can actually severely damage the hippocampus, killing neurons. Survivors of severe childhood abuse and veterans with post-traumatic stress syndrome are found to have smaller hippocampal volumes than other patients.This damage is caused by the release during traumatization of a cascade of cortisol, adrenaline and other stress hormones that not only damage brain cells and impair memory but also set in motion a long-lasting disregulation of the brain's biochemistry. Animals that are traumatized when they are young grow up to be cowardly bullies, with less vasopressin, which regulates aggression, and serotonin, the calming neurotransmitter, which has been shown to be low in delinquents and in children who have been regularly beaten by their parents. Low serotonin is the most important marker for violence in animals and humans, and has been correlated with high rates of homicide, suicide, arson, antisocial disorders, self-mutilation, and other disorders of aggression. Early emotional abandonment by the mother or significant family members regularly lowers the serotonin level of children. Harlow's motherless monkeys who became extremely fearful and socially violent as adults like Coleman's eleven-month-old patient whose serotonin level dropped by half following the death of his sister, demonstrate the dramatic effects of trauma on serotonin levels. Imbalances in neurotransmitter levels resulting from trauma can last for decades in post-traumatic stress disorders and even in Holocaust survivors.
Consciousness which Llinás believes is a 40-hertz oscillation in the entire brain network that binds together cortical and limbic systems is present during wakefulness and dream (REM) sleep. Dreaming is a sort of "down-time" for current experience, when daily memories are evaluated against early amygdalan emotional memories, processed into long-term memory and stored in the neocortex. But traumatic stress seriously interferes with the processing of these memories and their accessibility to consciousness. The fears, anxieties and hypervigilance of traumatic stress sets off a cascade of hormones and neurotransmitters that disrupts hippocampal functioning, leaving memories to be stored as dissociated affective states or body memories that are incapable of being retrieved through normal hippocampal indexing. Van der Kolk believes that often these memories are dissociated because they were never really stored in consciousness in the first place. Moreover, the "lack of secure attachments may produce the most devastating effects," he says, "because consistent external support appears to be a necessary condition in learning how to regulate internal affective states....Dissociation is a method of coping with inescapable stress [allowing] infants to enter into trance states and to ignore current sensory input..." As Eigen puts it in his book, The Psychotic Core, "The aggression perpetrated on the young in the name of upbringing is often tinged with or masks madness. Both parent and child live out this madness in a trancelike state akin to dreaming." It is these early trance states that are repeated in the social trances of history.'
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