Ne types vs Ni types and memory

[1981slater]

Between who? In case you answer, I'd also need to know who's the Supervisor and who's the Supervisee.

Obviously I mean the both of us: provided that you are LSI, what is in your opinion the Socionics intertype relationship between us? Supervision (I am an ILE) or illusionary (I am a LIE)

Sorry, thread hijacked

[1981slater]

Our two avatars are alike IMO!

Another possibility: I am Ne-ENTp, you Ti-ENTp

Another one: I am Te-ENTp, you Ti-ENTp

And: I am Ni-ENTp and you Te-ENTp

Aaaand: I am Ni-INFp and you are Michael Jackson

[Words]

Maybe it's just me, but women seem to be better at remembering birthdays, sending christmas cards and such.

I dunno how to relate memory to type, rather, if it should be to a great extent. I guess a cliche - although some truth in it, is that given a situation, S are remembering 'details' N are 'big picture' although this might be misleading.

So perhaps going a little further, to specifics of sorts going from the leading function, Si types will be prone to remember the pleasant experiences of a situation, Te types prone to remember the facts of the situation, N types the overall impression of some sorts of a situation, ie Ne types will remember peoples potential, personality, what they are like, Ni types ... patterns of interaction perhaps or something.

Of course, leading S, N etc means having both Si-Se, Ni-Ne, so they are both there, except one is given more importance in recollection, the other usually below the surface somewhat.

Hmmm, maybe i'll think of something cool to say later, dunno *shrug*

[redbaron]

Our two avatars are alike IMO!

Another possibility: I am Ne-ENTp, you Ti-ENTp

Another one: I am Te-ENTp, you Ti-ENTp

And: I am Ni-ENTp and you Te-ENTp

Aaaand: I am Ni-INFp and you are Michael Jackson

[silverchris9]

Type-related, but rather subjective. I'll go with the theory that the type of information that's remembered is IE-related. Memory of events, especially events with dates, would be most suited for Gamma NTs. On the other hand, we know what Alpha NTs like to discuss... and that's also what we'll remember: theoretical constructs. Whether someone has a "good memory" will depend on what they're asked to remember.

Okay, I'll buy that. It probably doesn't have a perfect correlation to type (nothing does), but I'd bet it would be a statistically significant relationship, were it possible to test for such things reliably.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

I'm bad at remembering objective contexts, but good at remembering weird visions that have nothing directly to do with what someone was explaining to me.

[Microknight]

I have pretty good short term memory as it pertains to written things and excellent long term memory. In a psychology class I took one time, they gave us a test to remember numbers that were flashed on screen for about 5 seconds. Afterward, they asked us to recall the numbers in sequence. We repeated this several times. Afterward, they told us the average was about 7. I got every number right for every sequence (each sequence was 15).

My long term memory I consider a personal strength. It's common of me to remember facts about people and things that I learned many years before. One of my friends will wonder if so-and-so likes such-and-such, and I will answer the question. They will wonder how I know the answer, and I'll say "He said that six years ago..." or similar. Often, the person in question won't even remember this, and will be really spooked that I know this about them. I'm also really good with raw facts; once I've received a fact it tends to stick with me forever.

I do, however, have a couple weaknesses with memory. I constantly lose things. Any time I enter/exit a doorway I count the contents of my pockets to make sure I have what I'm supposed to have(usually it's 3, wallet, cell, and keys). I will also place something somewhere and never be able to remember where I put it. I actually have to go back and act out what I did from the moment I last remembered having the object to find it, and even then I'm not always successful in finding it.

Another weakness, I have bad memory with most spoken things, like movie lines. I rarely remember movie lines correctly and in the right sequence. The meaning will be preserved, but I won't get the words right. If somebody gives me directions to do something or go somewhere, I must write it down before I'll remember it(although I have excellent memory with maps and locations). I guess I have trouble with aural presentation as it relates to specific structure and format. If I really want to remember something 100% specific that somebody says, I'll close my eyes and write it out in my head.

To summarize, good visual memory, extra good long term retention of facts, horrible memory for my physical surroundings, bad aural memory.

[Beautiful sky]

I have terrible memory, especially for dates, heck I dont even know when the major holidays are or when is my brothers/mothers birthday...

On the other hand I do remember quite a lot of details of certain events, what I usually dont remember is WHEN it happened, I can be off by months of the actual event, or I can even mix up two related events. For example one birthday party was at the age of 23 and another at the age of 24, I can mix up which exact birthday it was, but will remember in detail what was actually happening. Somehow such data just doesnt register for me.

Same with directions, I dont remember street names, or house numbers or the like, BUT I do remember near what it was, like a certain shop or a interesting looking tree or where I met my friend or something like that. Somehow I find it easier to asociate to things like that than street names, heck I dont know the names of major street names in my hometown but I know every corner of it.

Yeah, of course you would. Dates is in the realm of Ni. You're Ni ignoring

[xerx]

Yeah, of course you would. Dates is in the realm of Ni. You're Ni ignoring

I don't have a problem remembering important or historical dates.

[HERO]

I generally don't have that good of a memory. I find that most conscious memories from the first years of my life (that would be from about 0-6 more or less) are quite fragmentary. And most of my memories are quite vague and not vivid and I don't have a good visual memory at all.
And with movies for example, although I can appreciate some of David Lynch's movies and some of the stories and humanism, I often space out or get easily distracted with movies and find that I wasn't really paying attention at all at certain times. I can also get bored, and often if I'm watching a movie at home, I may often pause it at times, or have to rewind it or something because I wasn't paying attention. As much as I may sometimes try to appreciate Ni-things it can sometimes be a bit of a strain, and I often don't know if I really understand it.
I often have a bad short-term memory, and I may remember a variety of things from the past (usually not extremely distant past or early childhood) especially if it has some sentimental or personal value, or something that interested me. For example, I may be listening to a song, and I find that a melody or something in the song reminds of another song I heard in the past. And usually at first I won't remember what the other song was, until eventually I remember all of a sudden. Or sometimes I know there's a word I'd like to use or remember, and often I have to wait days more or less to remember the word, especially if I have a hard time searching for it. There are probably some times where I never find out what the word I wanted to use was.

Here are some interesting quotations on the brain and memory:
The Psychogenic Theory of History

'Since, as the neurobiologist Gerald Edelman has put it, "The likelihood of guessing how the brain works without looking at its structure seems slim," we will begin with a brief overview of brain structure. The brain is composed of over 100 billion neurons, with trillions of connections, dendrites, which are branching extensions from the body of the neuron that pass stimuli received by axons on to other neurons through synapses, the specialized connections between neurons. Since this synaptic activity is either excitatory or inhibitory, much of mental life and therefore also of the social life is either manic or depressive, and one of the main tasks of leaders, as also of psychiatrists, is to adjust through social projects the level of excitation of the brain. Memorization is thought to occur through repeated stimulation of synapses, making them grow bigger and stronger, as neurotransmitters are released across synaptic gaps. Specific memories are stored all over the brain, in a much more fractured way than a computer stores memory in many files. As with a computer, however, the crucial task is retrieval of the memory, using neural networks or brain modules that serve as "indexes" for the fractured memories. As discussed in the previous chapter, early emotional memories are indexed in a network centering in the amygdala, while the conscious self system is indexed more in the hippocampus and orbital prefrontal cortex, giving the brain the ability to retrieve information stored elsewhere and providing a "working memory" system that receives emotional signals from the amygdala. A PET scan of the brain, for instance, made during "free association" shows increased blood flow in this orbitofrontal area, thus showing why the psychoanalytic process can tap into uncensored private thoughts.'

'5:1 The human brain


The amygdala is predominantly excitatory, stimulating externally oriented behavior, and the hippocampus is predominantly inhibitory, comparing current information with existing knowledge. In current situations of danger, the amygdalan system is the first to make your muscles tense and heart beat faster, while the hippocampal-prefrontal cortical system will remember whom you were with and what you were doing during the danger, so as to be able to avoid it in the future. It is the growth of the hippocampus, prefrontal cortex and related areas that represents the main evolutionary development of self consciousness (beyond simple growth of cortical storage areas), allowing Homo sapiens sapiens to delay responses while comparing them to past experience and self concepts. When one dreams, one's amygdala lights up in the brain scanner like a pinball machine, as powerful early emotional memories are accessed and incorporated by the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex with current daily events into long-term personality modules. The hippocampal-prefrontal cortical and amygdalan memory systems are, in fact, the real "two brains" that dissociate more rational conscious self systems from unconscious emotional memories-not a simple "right-brain," "left-brain" split. The earliest regulation of emotion in a specialized amygdalan-prefrontal-orbital network first occurs during the mother-infant mutual gaze dialogues:

The common involvement [in infants] of orbital, temporal, and amygdala neurons in the processing of sensory (particularly visual) information of emotional significance has suggested that they 'may form part of a specialized neural system for the processing of social stimuli.'..The furthest terminus of this circuit, the orbitofrontal cortex, represents the hierarchical apex of this system. This is functionally expressed in its unique capacity to categorize, abstract, store, and regulate the practicing infant's emotional responses to the face of the attachment figure.

When emotional memories are traumatic either because the trauma was so early that the hippocampus was not yet functional or because it was so powerful that the hippocampal-prefrontal cortical system couldn't fully register it-they become permanent, dissociated fears of anything that might resemble the traumatic situation. Traumas that are inescapable because of helplessness can actually severely damage the hippocampus, killing neurons. Survivors of severe childhood abuse and veterans with post-traumatic stress syndrome are found to have smaller hippocampal volumes than other patients.This damage is caused by the release during traumatization of a cascade of cortisol, adrenaline and other stress hormones that not only damage brain cells and impair memory but also set in motion a long-lasting disregulation of the brain's biochemistry. Animals that are traumatized when they are young grow up to be cowardly bullies, with less vasopressin, which regulates aggression, and serotonin, the calming neurotransmitter, which has been shown to be low in delinquents and in children who have been regularly beaten by their parents. Low serotonin is the most important marker for violence in animals and humans, and has been correlated with high rates of homicide, suicide, arson, antisocial disorders, self-mutilation, and other disorders of aggression. Early emotional abandonment by the mother or significant family members regularly lowers the serotonin level of children. Harlow's motherless monkeys who became extremely fearful and socially violent as adults like Coleman's eleven-month-old patient whose serotonin level dropped by half following the death of his sister, demonstrate the dramatic effects of trauma on serotonin levels. Imbalances in neurotransmitter levels resulting from trauma can last for decades in post-traumatic stress disorders and even in Holocaust survivors.

Consciousness which Llinás believes is a 40-hertz oscillation in the entire brain network that binds together cortical and limbic systems is present during wakefulness and dream (REM) sleep. Dreaming is a sort of "down-time" for current experience, when daily memories are evaluated against early amygdalan emotional memories, processed into long-term memory and stored in the neocortex. But traumatic stress seriously interferes with the processing of these memories and their accessibility to consciousness. The fears, anxieties and hypervigilance of traumatic stress sets off a cascade of hormones and neurotransmitters that disrupts hippocampal functioning, leaving memories to be stored as dissociated affective states or body memories that are incapable of being retrieved through normal hippocampal indexing. Van der Kolk believes that often these memories are dissociated because they were never really stored in consciousness in the first place. Moreover, the "lack of secure attachments may produce the most devastating effects," he says, "because consistent external support appears to be a necessary condition in learning how to regulate internal affective states....Dissociation is a method of coping with inescapable stress [allowing] infants to enter into trance states and to ignore current sensory input..." As Eigen puts it in his book, The Psychotic Core, "The aggression perpetrated on the young in the name of upbringing is often tinged with or masks madness. Both parent and child live out this madness in a trancelike state akin to dreaming." It is these early trance states that are repeated in the social trances of history.'

[pianosinger]

Not necessarily type related... (haven't read every post leading up to this one, sorry)

I think each type is going to have its potential strengths and weaknesses when it comes to memory. And even then, it could depend more on interest rather than functions. For instance, I love music and singing, and have memorized hundreds of songs (music and lyrics) that I can sing at a minute's notice (and btw, it drives me nuts to hear someone singing the wrong lyrics; I struggle not to correct them when I know I know the right words). Ask me to recall the quadratic equation, though, and I'm even surprised that I could just now manage to recall the term "quadratic equation," let alone tell you what it is...

[Aleksei]

My memory sucks. My IEI best friend's memory is awesome.