Cosmetics and authenticity

[xerx]

ITT, I like wearing makeup.

[Wynch]

Men should ice their tips and purse their lips.

[Creepy-bg]

I'm mostly indifferent about make-up and probably one of the people Jessica hates. There are a lot of days where I couldn't give a shit what I look like and other days where I like being well put together just for the aesthetic appeal of it. Make up is still largely a play thing for me. I do it when I'm going out, predominantly because it's fun. I don't have the skill to find the nuanced/natural look for daytime make-up wear anyways. Fuck, I don't even dry my hair out of the shower....Or do it at all most days. Ponytail so it stays the fuck out of my face.

do you even know how incredibly hot this response was to me? (serious!)

[Creepy-bg]

Men should ice their tips and purse their lips.

AntiDuckface

[Creepy-]

i don't wear makeup. just occasionally(very rare) i used some eye liner and optionally some eye shadow but nothing more. some years ago someone gave me a full makeup and i didn't liked it. i absolutely hate the foundation/facial powder and the mascara. it felt like i had dirt on my face.

I don't think most women look better without makeup. I wish they'd wear more, to be honest. I dunno, I personally refuse to leave my house without it just because I like looking put together at all times. So often people get lazy and its unnattractive to me. You're basically saying you don't care about putting in an effort.

i guess some women may need a little bit of makeup to look better or to emphasize certain parts of her face but i don't think using makeup it's a must in order to look attractive. and if it's done wrong it can turn a good looking woman into a hideous beast. there are women who use too much of this stuff and end looking like clowns.
also not using makeup doesn't mean that it is laziness and not putting an effort. i use a lot of stuff to clean my skin or to protect it (mainly moisturizers, sun protection creams and lip balm)

Should men wear makeup too then?

i know guys that use concealers. one of the used once some sort of glitter lip gloss.



edit:
this is disturbing:

[Wynch]

do you even know how incredibly hot this response was to me? (serious!)

[07490]

I don't think most women look better without makeup. I wish they'd wear more, to be honest. I dunno, I personally refuse to leave my house without it just because I like looking put together at all times. So often people get lazy and its unnattractive to me. You're basically saying you don't care about putting in an effort.

No offense, and I know you have probably heard many people say that it isn't the looks that will matter but the internal connection you can form with someone. But in all honestly, guys doesn't like girl who are always high maintenance and always have to be aware of how good they look physically. I am not saying that guys like ugly girls either, just not so uptight and anal or imagine conscious about the look. something like what Vero said, it sounds very liberating and free; like you can feel good about yourself and not worry about vanity for a moment. it helps both person's self esteem and the relationship doesn't evolve about physical beauty. In turn actuality, girls who think in a way that does not depend on make-up/ emphasis on their look, actually create a more sexier vibe than those who worries too much about their look, because no one likes conceited people deep inside.

[Park]

I love that kind of indifference and spontaneity Vero described about herself. I think it's a common trait among ENXp females, and one that often spontaneously draws my attention to them. There's nothing more appealing than a girl that can charm you with her character and god given looks without all the superficial shit and contrived games that most girls use to draw attention to themselves. The lack of importance they place onto those things has an amazingly refreshing effect on me. Well, unless they are ugly or something... which can still be a completely subjective thing. Obsession with looks is a definite minus, at any rate.

[squark]

No offense, and I know you have probably heard many people say that it isn't the looks that will matter but the internal connection you can form with someone. But in all honestly, guys doesn't like girl who are always high maintenance and always have to be aware of how good they look physically. I am not saying that guys like ugly girls either, just not so uptight and anal or imagine conscious about the look. something like what Vero said, it sounds very liberating and free; like you can feel good about yourself and not worry about vanity for a moment. it helps both person's self esteem and the relationship doesn't evolve about physical beauty. In turn actuality, girls who think in a way that does not depend on make-up/ emphasis on their look, actually create a more sexier vibe than those who worries too much about their look, because no one likes conceited people deep inside.

You're erring on the opposite side. Jessica wearing makeup doesn't make her more conceited than someone who doesn't. You get dressed every day I assume. You probably care how you look when you do. Whether a person pays attention to one particular aspect of their appearance or does not, does not mean they are conceited, nor does it mean on the other hand that they don't care at all about how they look.

[Park]

In turn actuality, girls who think in a way that does not depend on make-up/ emphasis on their look, actually create a more sexier vibe than those who worries too much about their look, because no one likes conceited people deep inside.

[07490]

You're erring on the opposite side. Jessica wearing makeup doesn't make her more conceited than someone who doesn't. You get dressed every day I assume. You probably care how you look when you do. Whether a person pays attention to one particular aspect of their appearance or does not, does not mean they are conceited, nor does it mean on the other hand that they don't care at all about how they look.

But did I say specifically that she was conceited because she wore make up everyday? I gave an example of what a guy would rather choose, but I never said what she done was conceited, just a bigger idea of what guy's preference would lean towards if it chooses two extreme.

[squark]

But did I say specifically that she was conceited because she wore make up everyday? I gave an example of what a guy would rather choose, but I never said what she done was conceited, just a bigger idea of what guy's preference would lean towards if it chooses two extreme.

I doubt she has any problem attracting guys. And you're just one, with one opinion.

[Park]

I doubt she has any problem attracting guys. And you're just one, with one opinion.

Did he say she had a problem? Why do you keep implying things he did not mean?

[07490]

I doubt she has any problem attracting guys. And you're just one, with one opinion.

well I clap my hand two times and said congratulation to her genetic fortune And also you are wrong because I am not the only one and there are two opinions

Also what is with the cynical response? if you think I am wrong tell me what you don't agree, but you seem weak in your logic if you pull off some non nonsensical response like that.

[squark]

Did he say she had a problem? Why do you keep implying things he did not mean?

He started his post with "no offense" which is a phrase that specifically directs a post at a particular person acknowledging that they may take offense. If there was no recognition of the potential for offense, the phrase would not be needed. He then elaborates on his position.

[Park]

He started his post with "no offense" which is a phrase that specifically directs a post at a particular person acknowledging that they may take offense. If there was no recognition of the potential for offense, the phrase would not be needed. He then elaborates on his position.

I think the "no offense" disclaimer was more directed towards the potential for disagreement, and to specifically state he's not making the assumptions you are accusing him of. And the fact that he recognized the potential for offense was a thoughtful thing, which people in general should consider doing more often.

Also what is with the cynical response? if you think I am wrong tell me what you don't agree, but you seem weak in your logic if you pull off some non nonsensical response like that.

I hope this wasn't directed at me.

[squark]

Look, it's just irritating, having some people on one hand saying "you don't care enough" and others saying "you care too much" when really, neither one has any business telling a person how much they should or should not focus on any aspect of themselves, whether it's appearance or something else. Let people do whatever the fuck they want. If they like getting dressed up every day and wearing makeup, awesome. If they like throwing their hair into a ponytail and heading out the door, great. Comparing them though, and telling them that EVERYONE SHOULD be like this or that is such bullshit. It's nice you have a preference in what you like in women. Guess what? That means that you CARE about appearances. You want women who seem like they don't put a lot of effort in, because it takes the focus off of that aspect. Good for you. Different people like different things, and you know, one's not more shallow than the other.

[07490]

He started his post with "no offense" which is a phrase that specifically directs a post at a particular person acknowledging that they may take offense. If there was no recognition of the potential for offense, the phrase would not be needed. He then elaborates on his position.

I have no problem with Jessica and what she uses before she gets out of the door. I don't know her. I can care less to say I have a problem. But, I want you to know that I am saying what MY ONE OPINION means and what I know of other guys think. I use the word No offense because some will take it that way, but does me saying that automatically mean I have a problem? earlier in the thread, you voice your opinion about cosmetic, did it mean you have a problem as well, just as if I said "no offense"?
The meaning of "no offense" you interpret is only for cynical people, I had no intention of offending Jessica, I said it because I know she might take it that way, do not think just because everyone uses it like that, I should also hold responsible to that meaning, or how you suppose to interpret it, because saying, "no offense" does not always mean what you think.

[07490]

I hope this wasn't directed at me.

that was directed to ms. logical sensory introvert.

[Park]

Look, it's just irritating, having some people on one hand saying "you don't care enough" and others saying "you care too much" when really, neither one has any business telling a person how much they should or should not focus on any aspect of themselves, whether it's appearance or something else. Let people do whatever the fuck they want. If they like getting dressed up every day and wearing makeup, awesome. If they like throwing their hair into a ponytail and heading out the door, great.

I agree. But I don't think he was telling anyone what they SHOULD or should not do. He was simply expressing a personal sentiment, and made it clear he didn't intend to offend Jessica, or anyone else.

And also, why would you be irritated by what people are saying, when you know it is not their business and (you) have no reason to care?

[squark]

that was directed to ms. logical sensory introvert.

Not cynical.

your words: "I said it because I know she might take it that way"
my words: "acknowledging that they may take offense"

These two things are saying the same thing.

[07490]

your words: "I said it because I know she might take it that way"
my words: "acknowledging that they may take offense"

These two things are saying the same thing.

Yes I agree, and read my post again.

[Park]

This looks like a case where your dual is totally misinterpreting your intentions, and your conflictor is understanding you perfectly.

But nah, it's probably the gender relation that plays the main role here.

[squark]

I agree. But I don't think he was telling anyone what they SHOULD or should not do. He was simply expressing a personal sentiment.

And also, why would you be irritated by what people are saying, when you know it is not their business and have no reason to care.

Huh? Why wouldn't it be irritating to have various people decide they were the arbiters of the "best" way for all women to present themselves on a daily basis?

An opinion or matter of taste is one thing, and who cares. People can say that all they want, and it's not irritating in the least. Neither what jessica said, nor numbers' response fit that category however, and so it was irritating. It wasn't just a personal sentiment, "nobody likes" took care of that. Hey, I know it sounds nitpicky, but language is for communication, and you can't communicate one thing and then deny that's the message that was sent. Maybe it's not the message you meant to send, but it's still there loud and clear, and it sucks that I have to break down the phrasing piece by piece to show how it came across like that, but there it is.

[07490]

Huh? Why wouldn't it be irritating to have various people decide they were the arbiters of the "best" way for all women to present themselves on a daily basis?

An opinion or matter of taste is one thing, and who cares. People can say that all they want, and it's not irritating in the least. Neither what jessica said, nor numbers' response fit that category however, and so it was irritating. It wasn't just a personal sentiment, "nobody likes" took care of that. Hey, I know it sounds nitpicky, but language is for communication, and you can't communicate one thing and then deny that's the message that was sent. Maybe it's not the message you meant to send, but it's still there loud and clear, and it sucks that I have to break down the phrasing piece by piece to show how it came across like that, but there it is.

squark, you were only irritating once I said what I said, and not what Jessica said. this thread was evident of that, you were for cosmetic use, and had no problem t all what Jessica said, now you said it is irritating about what me and her said, you are such a hypocrite.

[squark]

Squark, don't play dumb. You are on the side cosmetic use, this thread is an evident of that from the very beginning. you said what you said and now you want to say that it is irritating on both side to decide what is the best way for women to present themselves. you voiced your opinion, I simply voiced mine. don't be a hypocrite, and therefore that means you are saying you yourself is irritating.

Bah. If by "on the side" you mean that I think women can wear makeup if they want to, then sure, but then I'm also "on the side" of those who don't want to wear it. Whatever someone wants to do is fine by me.

[Park]

Huh? Why wouldn't it be irritating to have various people decide they were the arbiters of the "best" way for all women to present themselves on a daily basis?

Well, even if that was the case, why would you care? Various people can "decide" or think whatever they want, but that doesn't mean you need to agree. And how can anyone "decide" for you in the first place? The only way that would work is if you actually weren't capable of deciding for yourself and went ahead and act in accordance to what someone else thought was the best, or whatever. You do what works for you best, and that's it.

An opinion or matter of taste is one thing, and who cares. People can say that all they want, and it's not irritating in the least. Neither what jessica said, nor numbers' response fit that category however, and so it was irritating. It wasn't just a personal sentiment, "nobody likes" took care of that. Hey, I know it sounds nitpicky, but language is for communication, and you can't communicate one thing and then deny that's the message that was sent. Maybe it's not the message you meant to send, but it's still there loud and clear, and it sucks that I have to break down the phrasing piece by piece to show how it came across like that, but there it is.

I'd say you get stuck on the meanings you want to see. Telling someone what they meant is ridiculous. You can interpret their words in whichever way you want, but not wanting to understand their intended meaning makes you narrow-minded and offensive, not them.

[squark]

squark, you were only irritating once I said what I said, and not what Jessica said. this thread was evident of that, you were for cosmetic use, and had no problem t all what Jessica said, now you said it is irritating about what me and her said, you are such a hypocrite.

You changed your post. I don't suppose you read my response to jessica, did you? Go read it and then call me a hypocrite.

[squark]

Well, even if that was the case, why would you care? They can "decide" or think whatever they want, but that doesn't mean you need to agree. And how can anyone "decide" for you in the first place. The only way that would work is if you actually weren't capable of deciding for yourself and went ahead and act in accordance to what someone else thinks is the best, or whatever. You do what works for you best, and that's it.

Um, I never said anyone was making my choices for me. Are you purposely being dense or something? Tell me, when someone says some dumbass thing that you disagree with, does it never irritate you? It never bothers you in the least to have to listen to ignorance?

I'd say you get stuck on the meanings you want to see. Telling someone what they meant is ridiculous. You can interpret their words in whichever way you want, but not wanting to understand their intended meaning makes you narrow-minded and offensive, not them.

I wasn't telling anyone what they MEANT. I was explaining what their words and phrasing communicated to me. And obviously I'm having some sort of failure of communication myself for you to misunderstand that.

[07490]

ok

roux lash and brow tint. Darkens your eyelashes and eyebrows, and you don't have to think about it for the next 4-5 weeks. That's what I do. Takes like 10 minutes to dye them. And I'm with you about not wanting to mess with the whole routine and crap. I only wear makeup very very rarely. I've never worn lipstick ever. I do however have an addiction to chapstick/lip gloss when it's very dry out, and my lips get dry.

here, you were giving make-up advices. which makes sense that you took my post as a sensitive attack and did not take the opposite side's opinion as sensitive as mine, which is Jessica's stand and she said this.

I don't think most women look better without makeup. I wish they'd wear more, to be honest. I dunno, I personally refuse to leave my house without it just because I like looking put together at all times. So often people get lazy and its unnattractive to me. You're basically saying you don't care about putting in an effort.

When Jessica voices that she thinks people are lazy and don't care about putting on make up it bothers her, you responded with this,

I don't think makeup should have to be part of looking good or put together. You can look very classy with or without it, and trashy with or without it. There are so many other factors. It's actually more work to look good without it, hah, because nobody looks good if they're not in good condition physically, and healthy, and it takes more effort to keep a good healthy complexion and nice skin than skillfully coloring that same effect onto your face.

You responded with this.
Yes, you did say that people can look good w/o make up, but what you should have said was that physical beauty should not be judge as someone's character such as being lazy, instead you focus on continuing what you think will make the person looks best, and continuing towards your bias but now look at how you response to my post once I defended the "non-make up girls" and defending them against accusation of being lazy, with the text below...

I doubt she has any problem attracting guys. And you're just one, with one opinion.

what is worse is that you then try to sound as fair and balance as possible saying that both of us were irritating when you did not address that to ms. Jessica on her now only infamous post by saying this.

Look, it's just irritating, having some people on one hand saying "you don't care enough" and others saying "you care too much" when really, neither one has any business telling a person how much they should or should not focus on any aspect of themselves, whether it's appearance or something else. Let people do whatever the fuck they want. If they like getting dressed up every day and wearing makeup, awesome. If they like throwing their hair into a ponytail and heading out the door, great.

Now is that being a hypocrite? towards one side?

[Park]

Are you purposely being dense or something

Nope.

Tell me, when someone says some dumbass thing that you disagree with, does it never irritate you? It never bothers you in the least to have to listen to ignorance?

Rarely. But it really depends on what it is about and who it is coming from.

[squark]

sorry, I really don't see your point. A couple women commented on having light eyelashes, and I gave a suggestion that they just dye them so they wouldn't have to spend every day putting on mascara. Never told anyone they should do it, and I don't care if they do or not.

My comments in response to you, were in response to what you said - ha, obviously. You were the one focused on what guys supposedly like, not me.

You responded with this. Yes, you did say that people can look good w/o make up, but what you should have said was that physical beauty so not be judge as someone's character such as being lazy, instead you focus on continuing what you think will make the person looks best.

I don't understand the 2nd sentence. Are you trying to make the point that whether they're wearing makeup or not, I'm still focused on their physical appearance, rather than inner characteristics?

I can comment on that, if that's the point you're trying to make. I will say that appearance is important, and how you present yourself does matter. It does say something about you. I disagreed that not wearing makeup means you're lazy and don't care about your appearance at all, but your own tastes and preferences do come through in how you dress and groom yourself, including cosmetics. Calling one person's preferences superior to another is really ridiculous, as much as arguing over the best color would be ridiculous. Having a preference isn't ridiculous. Saying that everyone should have your preference is. Do you see the difference?

You're judging people by their appearances, and making estimations about their character (and degree of conceit, vanity, etc.) by how they look, and saying that a certain way of behaving regarding your appearance shows better character than another. That's the same thing that jessica was doing. It doesn't show some kind of superior character to not wear makeup or do your hair any more than it does to do it. Having people imply or suggest that it does in two extreme ways (only the inner beauty matters vs. you just don't care about yourself) are BOTH irritating. So, how'd I do that time - did anyone understand me?

[Park]

Guys, aren't you tired of talking about this yet? I'm going to bed.

[squark]

Guys, aren't you tired of talking about this yet? I'm going to bed.

I was tired of it a long time ago. It's stupid. But, I'd at least like to be understood.

[07490]

You're judging people by their appearances, and making estimations about their character (and degree of conceit, vanity, etc.)

NO GOD NO. here is the point. I think what Jessica said was rather ridiculous judgment on people who don't wear makeup. I then make a statement that you should not do that because it's fucked up. then I explain my opinion of what guys preferred, self conciseness > some who is not. this is an opinion just like how you explain your opinion about what looks good on a girl or not. then you came in attacking me then take my words too far.

[07490]

I don't know I feel like I am right and therefore I should defend this until it is over.

[squark]

I don't know I feel like I am right and therefore I should defend this until it is over.

It's over. goodnight.

[07490]

squark, I can guaranteed you, that tomorrow night if you don't put your make up on, Romero with a 10 year plan will show up.

[Creepy-bg]

^ that argument would have never happened if Squark wasn't all hopped up on blush.

[squark]

squark, I can guaranteed you, that tomorrow night if you don't put your make up on, Romero with a 10 year plan will show up.

I haven't worn makeup in months. Who/what is romero and what are you talking about?

^ that argument would have never happened if Squark wasn't all hopped up on blush.

lol. I've never worn blush ever. It is quite possible that women could become dependent on makeup however. My sister seems to be. The first thing she does in the morning when she wakes up is put on her makeup, before even her family sees her. I don't know if she's insecure about her looks without it, or if it's to her just part of getting dressed.