Mosque on Ground Zero; Requested Split Topic

[Creepy-male]

I heared they wanted to build a gay bar next to the mosque.

Since the mosque on ground zero stands for tolerance, a gay bar would fit that picture too. Let's see how the muslims react to that!

haha yea

[Socionics Is A Cult]

If religion (or anything else) tells you to kill infidels and that sort of thing, then in my view, it is a problem to me.

[Creepy-male]

If religion (or anything else) tells you to kill infidels and that sort of thing, then in my view, it is a problem to me.

lol then don't be a member of a group that tells you to kill infidels, if thats not your thing....

you do have free will to choose what you feel is right for you, do you not?

[Wynch]

I love how people keep calling it a mosque when it's actually just a community center.

[Creepy-male]

Only if other nations have the means and the will to do so. Most don't. Even more, most nations won't actually stand up for others unless they themselves have something to gain by doing so. If there's nothing to gain, the victim is SOL.

Historically, many protagonists have pursued outright belligerent ends and nobody held them accountable for it. Either because no one could and/or because no one cared.

Every war is rooted in an ideological imperative—societies don't just engage in warfare senselessly. Even the most bellicose madmen were pursuing rational ends in the wars they initiated. They start them because they feel they have something to gain and because they're confident enough they can actually beat their opponents.

My point about the ideology thing was this: some nations fight over ideological ground. You've agreed on this... ideological imperative. This would mean that if someone is ideologically sympathetic to your opponent even if this sympathy was develop post facto, that could lead to aggression against you on ideological grounds.

You can't just kill a person and that's the end of their cause... other people may pick up the cause, and now you have to deal with them. You can't put an end to a "cause" or ideology you dislike through shear brute physical force, you can only block its physical manifestation.

Most people don't 'flock to religion', most people are brought up and raised with religion. It's usually not a voluntary choice.

Oh really then why has mankind been plagued by the very creation of religion then if its all so awful and about nothing beyond indoctrination.

Uh, it's not that simple. If someone's religion dictates to kill Subterranean and someone chooses to act upon that, then the only recourse Subterranean's free will has at that point is to defend himself by any means necessary.

Of course... but my point was I think it would be more direct and sensible to connect the negative association with the experience itself, instead of intertwine it with the religion.

The difference can be seen in the two quotes "I hate religion, because religions tell people to kill infidels" and "I hate it when religion tells people to kill infidels". Their is a difference.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

The difference can be seen in the two quotes "I hate religion, because religions tell people to kill infidels" and "I hate it when religion tells people to kill infidels". Their is a difference.

You said before that "Imho religion isn't the problem, it's how its used" ...

But I would object to a person who believed that people he considered infidels should be killed, even if he didn't kill infidels.

[Creepy-male]

You said before that "Imho religion isn't the problem, it's how its used" ...

But I would object to a person who believed that people he considered infidels should be killed, even if he didn't kill infidels.

I could understand you rejecting the idea... but the person, that's different, the person may change their mind before they actually manifest this ideal. People are dynamic, they can change.

Also what I was referring to when I said religion isn't the problem, it's how its used was more applicable like "if religion is being used to promote killing infidels, then that not the necessarily the religions fault but the message".... I find that religion is multi-faceted, there is obviously more to it than just killing infidels.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

well religion is wrong anyway