What do you think or would like to learn about them?
What do you think or would like to learn about them?
Zhukov, The Legionnaire
Gueorgui Zhukov - Marshal of the Soviet Union, a famous commander during the World War II.
1. The end result. This is the only thing that interests him. All he needs to achieve the final result he considers to be his vested interests. He is a strong-willed, determined person. "If stars shine at night – then somebody wanted it". With all his appearance he demonstrates he is far from being ostentatious, does not care for the impression he makes with others. “I did not understand, please repeat." – used to say Sergey Korolyov, the mastermind of the Soviet space technology. Few of Soviet top executives had the guts to ask this from Beria, the head of the Soviet secret police. All The Legionnaire does is performed with ardor, passionately and must be brought to its conclusion. He has the personality of an untamed struggler, who must come out on top no matter what the cost. "One should not avoid difficulties! One needs to learn how to overcome them" is his motto.
2. Die Hard. The expression "severe but just" became already trivial about this sort of persons. Marshal Zhukov was a really tough person, but only he could say to Stalin: "If you believe that the Head of the Chief Headquarters is capable only of talking gibberish, then he has no reason to be here. I ask you to relieve me of my rank as the Head of the Chief Headquarters and to send to the front". He has no back thoughts about his right to manage other people. Even taking into account his love to collegial discussion of issues, he always reserves the last sentence for himself. This is usually compensated by profound passion for his cause and the ability to seed the same enthusiasm in others.
3. A fine tactician. He quickly grasps the current situation and distribution of power, makes a decision and acts. He is capable of political maneuvering but never forgets his line. He possesses powerful logic function, but this kind of logic is determined and thus biased, its purpose isn’t philosophical speculations but the creative search for the shortcut to finding a solution. It is easier for him to concede his logic than his goal.
4. Dispassionate. He seldom gives in to fear, hatred, and other negative emotions, rarely gets surprised and rarely envies. The more dangerous the situation, the more self-disciplined and resolute he becomes.
5. He does not like to speak about feelings: this is not his line. And if by chance such words slip out, he feels as if he betrayed himself. He is afraid of emotional love, considering it an undeserved luxury. He is anxious of other feelings as well. Perceiving others to be just like him, he has no doubt that he may be desired, but he is seldom sure he can also be loved. He needs his partner’s emotional support and submits his emotions to him. However, in practical activity he never tends to adaptation, but only to dictation.
Your dual (psychologically complementary type): Yesenin, The Lyricist (intuitive-ethical introvert).
ESTPs generally have either slim figures or firm and solid figures. Slim ESTPs have slow and phlegmatic movements, giving the impression of calmness and self-confidence. Females often have a fragile appearance. Solid ESTPs have free and flexible movements. When standing in one place they tend to wriggle rhythmically as if they have a slight electric current running through them.
Their eyebrows are often asymmetrical. When ESTPs want to show their dissatisfaction they frown as if they are angry. Older ESTPs often become puffy and swollen around the eyes. They also have a tendency to squint. Their noses are usually quite wide at the base and their jaws are also large and square. They may have thick, immobile lips, making their speech somewhat garbled.
ESTPs rarely wear eye-catching clothes. They try to maintain a neutral style of clothes, steering away from fashion. Females prefer not to wear very bright or colourful clothing. Males have an inclination to official styles of clothing such as suits etc. ESTPs generally prefer to remain in the shadows.
When in conversation, ESTPs always show self-restraint and tact. They generally interact in an open and friendly manner, always showing positive emotions. They do not like to openly express their opinions. During interaction ESTPs always try to show that they are paying full attention and that they understand their interlocutor very well. One of the ways they do this is by asking many questions concerning personal problems or opinions. They do this with masterful tact and delicacy, therefore gaining other peoples trust very quickly.
ESTPs have a very characteristic way of behaving when in conversation. They can pause for long periods of time before replying to questions or statements. This can give the impression that they are assimilating the received information. In situations such as these they usually squint. ESTPs are never afraid to show others that they did not understand or do not know something and therefore never hesitate ask people to repeat or to specify what they said. ESTPs enjoy showing their understanding and like to explain things to others. They always do this slowly and methodically giving simple, practical examples. They also prefer to have the last word in conversations, concluding the dialogue themselves.
When in confrontation, ESTPs quickly focus on their opponents weaknesses, usually destroying them with one perfectly placed phrase. If this opportunity does not manifest itself, they have the skills to provoke the reaction they desire. ESTPs are very slow to anger. And when they do become angered it is very difficult for them to calm down. They like games that require quick thinking and tactics and often win these games as they have great skill misleading and provoking their opponents into making bad moves.
ESTPs have cast-iron self-control and nearly always achieve their goals. If required they can step on anyone or anything often ignoring ethics completely if the situation calls for it. If a project becomes too big and difficult for them to control by themselves, they will delegate the less important parts of the project, giving others complete independence to make their own decisions. ESTPs do not care much how people achieve results. They give others complete independence to choose their own method of working, as they consider the end result to be more important.
ESTPs are very tactically minded and know how to adapt to changing situations very quickly. They know how to arrange people according to their abilities and usefulness. They prefer to adopt an informal and unofficial leadership. They also do not like doing their own dirty work. ESTPs are hard working and extremely persevering people. The more obstacles they meet the more obvious these qualities become. They do not react well to unchallenging situations. They truly come alive in the face of adversity. ESTPs are inclined to give ultimatums.
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These descriptions of ESTP's sound kind of serious. But I've met a few sociable ones also...
Do all sites describe them in this manner?
Last edited by alexia; 02-26-2011 at 07:07 AM.
Yes, I think ESTPs are usually social too. Almost as social as ESFP... must be the . I guess a type description isn't going to ever give you the full picture, there are some things which are common to all people, while type descriptions probablly are going to describe things that are unique to the certain type...
These subtype descriptions by Valentina Meged - Psychologist (intuitive-ethical extrovert) ENFP and Anatoly Ovcharov - Craftsman (sensory-logical introvert) ISTP, can be confusing and opinions on them are divided but nonetheless they should be worth looking at, in my opinion they can be of some use in typing.
This description was from www.socionics.org
Sotsionicheskaya newspaper: № 01 (01), 22.11.2002
Note of editorial staff.
Attention! Until now in sotsionike there is a large problem because the authors of the different theories of subtypes so did not agree about the general terminology. There exists as the minimum of 3 theories of 32 subtypes (authors of present article, V.V.Gulenko and Ye.S.Filatovoy). In each of these theories the type is divided into two subtypes, as the authors consider, with the "intensive" first or second function (i.e. for example logico- intuitive introvert it can be "logical" or "intuitive" subtype). Problem in the fact that each divides type in in own way own way, and here terms are used the same. We request to consider this with reading of article.
We focus attention on the fact that also the pseudonyms of types all the more subtypes, used in this article, they are not in sotsionike conventional.
Sensory- logical ekstravert: LEADER, ESTP
Appearance SLE is very diverse. This type of personality is not always simple for visual diagnostics as type Eie. It is possible to isolate these common features:
Cold, evaluating view, sufficiently tenacious, entire noticing, but with the light haze or the languishing eyes, which imparts to it at times the expression of innocence, romanticism or pensiveness. Smile SLE does not always correspond to the expression of eyes; therefore it can appear stretched. Most frequently it smiles on the specific occasion, but not in order to arrange to itself.
Motions well coordinated, harmonious, although somewhat irregular can be. Gait usually is smooth, is confident, is flexible, "cat". It is noticeable that man cans himself tax, to emphasize the merits of its body. SLE knows how to easily bear its body, even having significant weight. It dresses, as a rule, with the taste, it loves expensive, rare things. Style on each day of business or sport.
If in a good mood - it is weakened and oars. In the poor mood of lip they are compressed, view sullenly. Poses moderately flattened, gestures important-looking, willingly demonstrates force and confidence in itself. It is time it is impatient, with the unexpected drops in the mood: first it is impulsive and cuttings, then it is ironic and affectionate with the notes of intimacy in the voice.
Sensory subtype seems by person ingenious, impulsive, who conceals the concealed threat and by no means reasonable. In actuality it is sharp, sufficiently aggressive and persistent. It can be rancorous and it is sufficient to resourceful in order to make life of the svikh ill-wishers of that of simply not tolerated. Has a nature contrasting and unpredictable. With those, whom it loves, it is periodically is very affectionate and even it is sentimental. It possesses such feeling of humor, which easily passes into the sarcasm or the caustic irony. Is talkative, obayatelen, it is ingenious, critical and cuttings, it loves epithets and slang expressions. Its motions are elastic and rapid, gait only waddle, elbows are slightly bent with walking, which gives cat ingratiating tones to it. Is characteristic the evaluating view with light prishchurom. Usually it follows its health, it is periodically occupied by sport or gymnastics. It dresses dearly and with the taste. The bright impression of confident in itself, flourishing person usually is produced.
Logical subtype leaves the impression of calm force and confidence in itself. It is rational and sequential in the matters. It is industrious and hardy. It is usually cold-blooded, sustained and imperturbable, but into the minutes of irritation it does not hide its fury, which is manifested in the view and the sharp, categorical gestures. In the calm state it is polite, amiable, although it holds collocutor on a certain distance. Its humor of cuttings is rather rough. In it there is rapid, distrustful view from under the eyebrows. Form usually is serious, is alerted. Gait and gestures are harmonious, are smooth and are clear. Somewhat monotonous dresses, and it is strict, although with the times of unexpectedly thrust or it is extravagant. It values qualitative clothing, rarely creating ensembles from a few things. In the majority of the cases it has a tendency too not to be separated. This relates both to the behavior and to the clothing. It seems cold and inaccessible, although he tries to be correct, flat and benevolent. It is held with the merit.
ESTPs really aerent such serious people. Theyre playful in their attitude more than anything else, even though they get competitive all the time about every single thing, which is mistaken for serioussness by some people, I guess.Originally Posted by alexia
After doing some serious research and long test taking, it turns out that I'm indeed an ESTp, so I was posting in the wrong quadra's turf before. Meh.
Basically, because of our nature, we are usually playful and casual, but I can be serious on some occasions if the situation calls for it.
Because of our strong , we love almost all kinds of sports, ranging from baseball to extreme sports, and I live for risks.
We usually don't get criticized too much, except when it comes to manners and such, because of the weak . I constantly get comments from people saying that I'm not very polite. The problem is, whenever I try to be (to teachers/athority figures in general), it feels so unnatural, and I have to force the words out of my mouth.
I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.
EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!
That pretty much sounds like my ESTp cousin. Yeah ESTps can lack poiliteness but with him its not too bad, its actually kind of natural for him I guess, and thats just how he is and I wouldnt have him any other way. I dont think ESTps ever get too evil towards humanity because of their hidden agenda. They can get rough with other people, but they always seem to impose limits on themselves when it comes to their roughness, and this is when their hidden agenda becomes obvious( if it wasnt already).Originally Posted by Herzblut
No what?Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
And it's the exact same thing as 2 of my ESTp friends also. Sometimes it's fun to be rough, but I know my boundaries.That pretty much sounds like my ESTp cousin. Yeah ESTps can lack poiliteness but with him its not too bad, its actually kind of natural for him I guess, and thats just how he is and I wouldnt have him any other way. I dont think ESTps ever get too evil towards humanity because of their hidden agenda. They can get rough with other people, but they always seem to impose limits on themselves when it comes to their roughness, and this is when their hidden agenda becomes obvious( if it wasnt already).
Oh, I didn't know that that was what you two were referring to. (I didn't know was INFp either).
Hmm, well I have lots of experience with relationships of supervision, as I am my twin brother's supervisor. I found that he gets really irritable when I'm around him for long periods of time, but he's always really happy to see me if I've been gone for a while. Now thanks to Socionics and that I'm finally confident in his and my types, I finally realized why he gets like that. Yipee!
Haha, supervisions can be quite interesting at times. :wink:
Just out of curiosity, Pedro, do you know any ESTp's personally? Because I don't think I know any ISFj's, so I'm not sure what it feels like to be the supervisee.
Yep I know one (that I have spent a good amount of time with).
We get along pretty well. The most memorable interaction that comes to mind is when he told me (in a very friendly polite manner) that I needed to buy some deodorant cause I stank It was useful advice that I have tried to follow ever since
Haha, my mom (ESTj) always says that to my brother. Could it be an INTj thing?
LOL! There's no excuse for bein' stinky. But I know an ISTj that always seems to have an odor. I never got the courage to have a one on one about it with him though. like "look man, you kinda reek, alot."
I know an INTj that seems to avoid washing her hair. One time I told her she smelled good (but in an organic way) she went "maybe its because I took a shower" i was like
CHrist, people who don't take showers freak me out.
Now back on track with the ESTp's:
All of the ESTp's that I know (me included) have ridiculous problems with procastination. Heck, I'm doing it right now! Is there a specific function related to this, or is it just Percieving in general?
Pedro-the-Lion, I do not stink! (CS sniffing his armpits ) To be honest, I do have to pay attention. The thing is, if you stink, you will probably be the last one to notice it.
I do not quite see this procrastination theory of yours working. I think if anything it may just be an S/N difference, or maybe Ne vs Ni. Te + Ni works when there is no contradiction...
"Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
So its a perceiving thing.Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
Ready to hear a story about my life that you probably couldn't care less about?
So I was trying to teach my ISFj mom a few basics about Socionics (model a, functions, types, etc.) Well, after a while, she goes, "You should be a psychologist!"
Well? An ESTp phychologist? How would that work? Anyone here have an ESTp psychologist?
Sorry for the stupid post.
Well, see, it proves how powerful an understanding of Socionics can be.
But my sister is an ESTp and she he hopes to get a degree in sociology, and in some way help teens with developmental and self esteem issues.
To tell the truth, I wish more people would talk about useless things. It gives me an excuse to share parts of the wonderous tale that is my life. :wink:Originally Posted by Herzblut
People actually cringe when I tell them I'm going into college for Psychology. Either they think I'm too smart for it (), or they envision the destruction of mankind from putting the image of me and Psychology together. (All my school friends think I'm going to destroy the world someday, and I really don't know why. They even blamed me for 9-11!)
Your INTp friend,
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
w00t for light-hearted-ness!
Anyways, Cone, all of my friends have basically told me the same thing, but to a different extent. :wink: Maybe it's from some kind of lack of / ?
Well among the great socionists there is an ISTP and an ISTJ that I know of. So why not an ESTP :wink: ? I had an ESTP theatre teacher whom I identified as ESTP (although Im not sure) who was training to become a psychotherapist.
Well she took a myers-briggs test a few years ago at work, and she came out as ESTJ. However, she came out as a definate ISFj on Dmitry Lytov's Socionics questionaire. Now that I think about it, she's definately my supervisor. And I only have one mom, sorry about that one.Originally Posted by Steve
She's 48 years old!Originally Posted by Steve
...knocks Steve's head with a hammer...Originally Posted by Steve
...a tumble weed rolls by...
I'll be out of school by then.Originally Posted by Steve
Oh yeah, and my dad is ESTp also, so you'll be drowned by all of the !
Drown me out with the , I am lacking alot of it and need some.