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Thread: Caring for your Delta NF (INFj & ENFp)

  1. #161
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Believing that you have a complete understanding of something doesn't make it a fact

    "American politics is broken because people are responding ONLY emotionally to situations that demand ONLY logic."
    That's not to say that you can't believe this ^ is a fact, but I see it as a statement that's highly questionable more than anything
    I give up in this line of inquiry (and I don't give up very easily), as I see it will lead no where with you. You're a Yielding type, and that's all I gather from such an interaction. Back and forth with no resolution; just madness. In another post, you'll post the very definition of TeSi and that will be exactly what I've written in the above, yet if it's MY post that says the same thing, you'll disregard it as not being factual, accurate to such a source that you follow (note the word follow), and will consider everyone else's opinions to your fact as more/less unimportant than that of the one you're following.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  2. #162
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moredhel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post

    Why would you want to do that? You're supposed to be a humanist/humanitarian (at least that's how you type yourself)!
    That's a bit of a narrow definition don't you think? An EII also values a peaceful environment.
    Nothing about being a humanist/humanitarian says you need to disregard personal opinions about people and love everyone equally, nor does it say you can't ignore people who are having a negative impact on your life and or environment, particularly when said people are in no need of aid and are simply being rude.
    Thanks for showing me the other side. Sometimes, I hope that the very word (humanitarian/humanist) will encompass meaning; a meaning above one's ego and self perpetuated agenda. To encompass LOVE of humanity in it's very basic form; forgiveness, compassion, empathy, and above all LOVE. (I know, too idealistic.....LOL....that's what my boyfriend says).
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post

    Luckily at least with the internet you can actually control the barrier better than in real life
    Why would you want to do that? You're supposed to be a humanist/humanitarian (at least that's how you type yourself)!
    Not all INFjs are humanitarian, and not all humanitarians are INFjs. Venn diagram logic. And Marie's just saying what she feels, not putting herself in a box because of her type, Maritsa.

    Also makes sense why you self-type INFj, because you care deeply about people, but I really don't think Ne-Si valuing makes much sense for you Maritsa, considering how strongly you impose your viewpoint in an Se-combative way. I think you're ISFj, Maritsa, please see my post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Stopping in out of retirement/lurking quick to say I agree with moredhel's comments on page 4 or 5 regarding Maritsa's type.

    I agree Maritsa seems strongly Se-valuing. After watching the video, she does have the tense, Se-valuing nature. Also makes sense in combination with Ni-valuing, and Ne-unvalued, why she is constantly willing to impose her viewpoint without truly considering it, telling others they are wrong, or 'no, I'm this or that because...'. In fact, I'm sure she's already thinking to respond to this with either 'No, MD, this definition fits this theory, haven't you read Jung?' or her other usual 'MD, I CANNOT RESPOND TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE HITTING MY SE-POLR!!!' like she usually does when I prove her wrong.

    Aside from being Se-valuing, she DOES seem to strongly value Fi, and deep relationships, more so than Fe exuberance. I do agree with Maritsa in typing her as a Serious type, not Merry. For this reason, at this time I place Maritsa in Gamma, for being both 1) Se-valuing and 2) Fi-valuing. I think ISFj actually makes a lot of sense for Maritsa.

    So there ya have it. Before, I had gone with people's typings of Beta NF, for her emotions and unvalued Ne, but I think Fi-valuing makes more sense than Beta Fe. Still sticking with Ni and Fi valuing for her.

    She does remind me of one of my INFp friends a bit... Ni leading... I wouldn't necessarily rule out INTp for Maritsa. Her strict adherence to her own set of logical viewpoints, sort of reminds me a bit of other INTps on the forum. INTp is an option, but still strongly think ISFj makes the most sense at this time. I believe she is my semi-dual.

    And with that, back to lurking.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Having recently shared eerily similar conversations with both an LSE and an SLI at work (like, pretty much verbatim the words you chose), I think it's 'bout time to humble up and let your concern sink in and stick, 'stead of another round of "in one ear and out the other".

    So, long story short, thanks, moredhel. Lots.
    glad I could be of some assistance. EII's are such wonderful people it's so sad to see them become jaded.

  5. #165
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moredhel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Having recently shared eerily similar conversations with both an LSE and an SLI at work (like, pretty much verbatim the words you chose), I think it's 'bout time to humble up and let your concern sink in and stick, 'stead of another round of "in one ear and out the other".

    So, long story short, thanks, moredhel. Lots.
    glad I could be of some assistance. EII's are such wonderful people it's so sad to see them become jaded.
    It's about forgiveness, not being jaded; forgiveness allows you to remake your sense of self and reestablish your foundations and focus on your base functions, which is on having good/positive relationships and viewing people as individuals; allowing a totally different human being the love they deserve and not being hung up on them because of the actions/behavior of other individuals. This is a part of Self-evaluation; Self-reflection; Self-examination; Self...looking into you and who you are and how that relates to the rest of the world.

    Do you want your dual to be an unforgiving individual? Ask yourself that question!

    Do you not read what I write?
    Please go back to the very beginning of this thread and reread every single one of my posts in conversation with you. You'll see the interaction and how that works.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 08-06-2011 at 02:58 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  6. #166
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post

    Why would you want to do that? You're supposed to be a humanist/humanitarian (at least that's how you type yourself)!
    Not all INFjs are humanitarian, and not all humanitarians are INFjs. Venn diagram logic. And Marie's just saying what she feels, not putting herself in a box because of her type, Maritsa.

    Also makes sense why you self-type INFj, because you care deeply about people, but I really don't think Ne-Si valuing makes much sense for you Maritsa, considering how strongly you impose your viewpoint in an Se-combative way. I think you're ISFj, Maritsa, please see my post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Stopping in out of retirement/lurking quick to say I agree with moredhel's comments on page 4 or 5 regarding Maritsa's type.

    I agree Maritsa seems strongly Se-valuing. After watching the video, she does have the tense, Se-valuing nature. Also makes sense in combination with Ni-valuing, and Ne-unvalued, why she is constantly willing to impose her viewpoint without truly considering it, telling others they are wrong, or 'no, I'm this or that because...'. In fact, I'm sure she's already thinking to respond to this with either 'No, MD, this definition fits this theory, haven't you read Jung?' or her other usual 'MD, I CANNOT RESPOND TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE HITTING MY SE-POLR!!!' like she usually does when I prove her wrong.

    Aside from being Se-valuing, she DOES seem to strongly value Fi, and deep relationships, more so than Fe exuberance. I do agree with Maritsa in typing her as a Serious type, not Merry. For this reason, at this time I place Maritsa in Gamma, for being both 1) Se-valuing and 2) Fi-valuing. I think ISFj actually makes a lot of sense for Maritsa.

    So there ya have it. Before, I had gone with people's typings of Beta NF, for her emotions and unvalued Ne, but I think Fi-valuing makes more sense than Beta Fe. Still sticking with Ni and Fi valuing for her.

    She does remind me of one of my INFp friends a bit... Ni leading... I wouldn't necessarily rule out INTp for Maritsa. Her strict adherence to her own set of logical viewpoints, sort of reminds me a bit of other INTps on the forum. INTp is an option, but still strongly think ISFj makes the most sense at this time. I believe she is my semi-dual.

    And with that, back to lurking.
    " ESIs tend to evaluate people's ethical behavior "as it is" and not "as it could be" or "as it could be interpreted according to the context or another person's point of view". That means that they can be perceived as unrelentingly harsh, even unforgiving or vindictive, when correcting, punishing or even avenging what they see as unethical behavior, especially betrayal of trust. "Evil must be punished" or even "destroyed" is one of the ESI's mottos."

    This isn't me.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    It's about forgiveness, not being jaded; forgiveness allows you to remake your sense of self and reestablish your foundations and focus on your base functions, which is on having good/positive relationships and viewing people as individuals; allowing a totally different human being the love they deserve and not being hung up on them because of the actions/behavior of other individuals. This is a part of Self-evaluation; Self-reflection; Self-examination; Self...looking into you and who you are and how that relates to the rest of the world.

    Do you want your dual to be an unforgiving individual? Ask yourself that question!

    Do you not read what I write?
    Please go back to the very beginning of this thread and reread every single one of my posts in conversation with you. You'll see the interaction and how that works.
    I've seen more than one jaded EII hence the reference, no type is emotionally immune to mistreatment by others.
    I don't really know what your on about half the time Marista you seem to take a small comment not directed at you and go off on a complete tangent.
    My statement amounted to be "be a little cautious" not don't trust anyone and don't forgive people who have wronged you. I have never not granted forgiveness to someone who sought it from me, so I wouldn't give advise to the contrary.

  8. #168
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moredhel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    It's about forgiveness, not being jaded; forgiveness allows you to remake your sense of self and reestablish your foundations and focus on your base functions, which is on having good/positive relationships and viewing people as individuals; allowing a totally different human being the love they deserve and not being hung up on them because of the actions/behavior of other individuals. This is a part of Self-evaluation; Self-reflection; Self-examination; Self...looking into you and who you are and how that relates to the rest of the world.

    Do you want your dual to be an unforgiving individual? Ask yourself that question!

    Do you not read what I write?
    Please go back to the very beginning of this thread and reread every single one of my posts in conversation with you. You'll see the interaction and how that works.
    I've seen more than one jaded EII hence the reference, no type is emotionally immune to mistreatment by others.
    I don't really know what your on about half the time Marista you seem to take a small comment not directed at you and go off on a complete tangent.
    My statement amounted to be "be a little cautious" not don't trust anyone and don't forgive people who have wronged you. I have never not granted forgiveness to someone who sought it from me, so I wouldn't give advise to the contrary.
    Yes I do and you should familiarize yourself with my type and you'd know why that happens. Because it's a part of value judgement; especially one that hits the cord. It's also called fragmented thinking.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 08-06-2011 at 08:39 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  9. #169
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    On human relations.

    Social sphere


    This is where both you and Minde are a like and why you two can relate to each other so quickly.
    .
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ve_Styles(wiki)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki View Post

    Dialectical-Algorithmic Cognition
    The second cognitive form is of particular interest: it is synthetic, negative, and deductive. The working name of this style is Dialectical-Algorithmic. Representatives of this style are Sociotypes EIE, ILI, LSE, SEI.
    As Dynamics, these types synthesize associational images. As Evolutionary types, they increase deductive complexity of them. As Negativists, they work well with contradictions and paradoxes.
    Intellectual Sphere
    The essential distinguishing feature of the Dialectical style, is a view of the universe as a unified struggle of opposites. In speech it often uses syntactic constructions "if-then-else", the predictive branches of a developing process. Within limits, the Dialectic strives to find an intermediate point of dynamic equilibrium between contrasting extremes. Dialectical cognition is born from the colliding flow and counterflow of thought, the consciousness and unconsciousness. Thinkers of this style are characterized by an express inclination towards the synthesis of opposites, the removal of contradictions, which they so keenly perceive.
    Its advantages are obvious: it is the most subtle and flexible style. It can easily switch to an opposite direction, and possesses predictive ability, accompanied by an effective type of associative memory. Algorithmic thinking is also good at solving problems of classification, given their gift for recognizing complex patterns. Beyond the circumstantial conditions of a problem, it perceives a fundamental algorithm for its solution.
    According to Aristotle, Dialecticals prognostic thinking explains reality on the basis of purposive causes. For example, the cause of a sculpture is an idea of it in the head of the sculptor. The main role is played by a program, the intention of the creator. Thus, it can be considered teleological, and hence the most 'religious' in its essential thinking. Many scholars of this type sooner or later come to faith (not necessarily a church confessional).
    Social Sphere
    Historically, the first representative of a Dialectical worldview would be Heraclitus. Epitomizing the Dynamic dichotomy, he was of the opinion that "you cannot enter the same river twice" because whenever you enter again, the flow is already of different water. In more recent times it developed into Hegel's comprehensive theory of a rational system. Since Dialectical cognition, compared to other styles, is the most oriented towards creative intention, it invariably leads to ideas of a creator, an absolute, a cosmic intelligence, etc.
    Two of its representatives—EIE and ILI—are usually recognized in society as the most intellectual types. They form the backbone of intellectual elites, expert clubs, esoteric groups, etc. They are the best computer programmers, knowing better than other types how to work with moving structures—algorithms. Algorithmic diagrams consist of blocks and arrows showing the order of transitions, branches, and loop cycles. The crux of a program is its dynamic structure—pointers, rather than blocks. The formula "if-then-else" is, in essence, the core of any algorithm.
    The disadvantages in Dialectical-Algorithmic cognition include instability and uncertainty. Algorithmics suffer from difficulty in making choices and embracing unambiguous decisions. This thinking is more comparable to a symphony of flowing interwoven imagery, rather than a mechanism of clearly established instruction sets. Another problem is increased criticality, which can be so high that it incurs self-destruction, plunging them into danger of total detachment from reality, and leading to mental disorders, especially in cases of hereditary predisposition.
    Psychological Sphere
    The psyche of Dialectical types is most prone to transformations. From a psychological point of view, an unstable oscillating psyche is fertile ground for suggestibility. Occasionally Dialectics lose control over the parallel streams of thought fluctuating in their heads. They need only tune out their internal oscillation between freedom of choice and fatalism, and reinforce the latter. Doctors know that a small but accurately timed shock can throw the heart into a state of fibrillation. Likewise, a successfully directed signal at the right time can throw the Dialectical psyche into a chaotic state.
    The EIE Sociotype has a very suitable psyche for suggestive influence. It is characterized by so-called moments of imprint vulnerability. In these moments an intense suggestion is triggered—an imprint—the prerequisites of which are a state of extreme fear, confusion, or surprise. A 'No Exit' sign suddenly seen by a person of Algorithmic psyche at a time of severe emotional turmoil, may catalyze a decision about suicide. Exploiting this paradoxical nature of Dialectical types, shock therapy is capable of completely reprogramming their conception of reality, including core value judgments.
    A certain, although rare sign of Dialectical cognition—accidents that lead to states similar to a deep trance or coma, followed by sudden enlightenment or the appearance of esoteric abilities.
    The other version is slow suggestion, primarily based on entrainment through rhythmic vocalization and/or sound, multiple repetitions of the same phrase with variation. Variations in this case are particularly significant, working akin to the chorus in a song. Gradually a trance state is reached—external relaxation with internal concentration. The greater the monotony, the sooner a deep trance is reached. Hence why some people rapidly settle down and fall asleep under a monotone 'bubnezh' TV.
    Scientific Sphere
    Dialectical thinking best corresponds to the quantum-probabilistic worldview of modern physics. According to this paradigm, there are no immutable laws, only tendencies and probabilities. Quantum Mechanics is built on the counterintuitive principle of particle-wave duality, according to which microcosmic objects behave as particles and as waves. Two of the 20th century's greatest physicists disputed over this view—Albert Einstein and Neils Bohr. The former defended causal-determinism as the nature of the universe, the latter advocated a probabilistic ontology. In the aftermath, Bohr won. Though apart from its historical context, the dispute makes little sense, given that these cognitive forms are dual to one other. Jung's principle of 'synchronicity' also lies within the Dialectical paradigm.
    Contemporary British mathematician Roger Penrose has suggested that the human brain uses quantum gravity as a means for intuitive insight. He's written several books ("The Emperor's New Mind" and "Shadows of the Mind") stipulating that the brain is a quantum computer, and that Aristotelian logical thinking is actually alien to human beings. If he is right, it follows that the integral type of humanity is Dialectical-Algorithmic.
    A real-life model of this thinking—double-images periodically passing into each other. Simple example: a projection onto the plane of a truncated pyramid. After examining it awhile it alternately seems convex, with the top facing to the observer, then concave, with the rear wall receding into the distance.
    One more graphical illustration of Dialectical perception. What do you see in the picture: a vase against a black background, or two facial profiles on a white background? It depends on which one for you is the background, and which is the figure. Some see a vase and the profiles turn into a dark background, others see two black profiles and the white vase goes into the background. But once a person sees both images, fluctuations of attention begin. The picture seems to pulsate: you see a vase, then the profiles. There is a dialectical exchange of background/foreground. Triggering negative reverse perspective, where distant or darkened objects are perceived more significantly than those located closer to the observer.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 08-06-2011 at 07:49 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I don't think it's nice and kind to ignore people.
    I don't think it's nice and kind to... well, do a lot of things. I'm pretty sure you don't need a list spelled out to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    you're just saying that they don't have a voice and a right to have that voice, that devalues people.
    There's a right to speak, of course. You're wrong, I never said people couldn't have a voice. But there's a right to listen or not listen, too. To force an opinion on me is a violation of my own rights and a devaluation of my own opinions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I believe in letting people say what's on their mind and finding yourself a way to understand them. That allows you to be flexible and adjust to your relations, keeping good relations and adjusting relations to you, and having relations around you. How can you be Fi and ignore human beings to the extent to let them be devalued as an object; that isn't right.
    All of what you're saying here is a misrepresentation of not only what I said (reading way too much into it) but my motives as well. You, of course, can keep on like this if you want. But I'd like to point out--mostly for the sake of people who actually care about listening to me--you're rather wrong about me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Unlike Minde, and I do disagree with her post, I don't want it to work, if it does than there's something wrong with me. When people don't get the hint, that means they want the attention of another person and an opportunity to build relations, if you don't give that to them than you're excluding the individual from having the potential of good relations with you, hence you devalue relations and potential of good relations.
    That's an interesting point and one very similar to what an EIE I know has said. (Not saying you're EIE, btw, just that it reminds me of what she said.) She said that when people are acting needy, they're "holding out their hearts, like a basket, so you can put something in it. And I usually think to myself, 'What's the harm in putting something in?'" I really liked what she said; it makes sense to me. Usually I'm happy to "put something in the basket."

    There are points, though, when it's not healthy for either me or them to keep doing that. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, feed him for life." Sometimes the neediness stems from a wound that needs healing. Sometimes I can help with it; sometimes I'm not the right person and don't have the right resources to deal with the depths of their problems.

    For example, let's take an overly-forward guy at a party. Perhaps he has issues that talking through would help (more likely than not he does); but at that point in time it would do no one any good for me to put down all barriers and open myself to being his "buddy."

    Or how about someone who, even after long hours of conversation and attempts at seeing eye-to-eye, keeps trying to push their opinions down my throat regardless of anything I say?

    In both cases, sure, if the other person demonstrates signs of being actually open to listening to me, to valuing the input I can provide, to moving beyond themselves for a little - if they seem like me "putting something in their basket" would actually do them good - then I'm usually happy to try interaction again. After all, as you point out, there's always potential.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Because, you never know. How can you build positive and good relations if you ignore them, want them to get the hint, and go away?
    You're right, not interacting with someone means you can't explore the potentials of your relationship with them. I'd like you to understand, though, that usually by the time I'm to the point where I'm ignoring someone, I've already tried to make things work out.

    Perhaps it might help to keep in mind if I am always trying to explore the maximum potentials of every relation I possibly can have, with absolutely no limitations, I'd starve to death.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I suppose you'd narrow your relations down, but then you'd miss the world of possibilities of having other relations with important people. I just think that being an EII, I help my dual keep their relations around because they can be gruff and piss people off or away. I like to think that being a peacemaker and a negotiator of relations is a positive contribution to any relationship I have.
    A peacemaker. That's good. Practice make perfect, they say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    No matter how much trouble I've had with the most difficult of relations, Workaholics is one such person, I've never "casted her aside" or ignored her posts and you'll see that even with the difficulty we've had there is always a way to find a way to get along, you just have to try some differing ways. That is remaining positive.
    Congrats. I'm proud of you. Perhaps in time you can see me in a good light, too.
    Last edited by Minde; 08-09-2011 at 02:52 AM.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by moredhel View Post
    If it is their way of wanting to get to know you better then that is an absolutely terrible way to approach a delta.
    It's a bad way to get to know me for sure, at least.


    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    In the case(s) I think you're referring to, I pretty much feel you and all; but I fear that way too often "ignorance" is just a guise for "better-than-thou arrogance".
    I know you've already kind of backed off from this, but I'm curious about what you mean with "ignorance" vs. "better-than-thou arrogance." How is trying to peacefully diffuse a situation and avoid someone who is purposefully trying to cause me discomfort and even pain a matter of either ignorance or arrogance? Perhaps I'm totally missing your meaning, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Sometimes the best way to deal with people and avoid more turmoil is to just get away from them, or at least keep a distance, especially if it goes on for an elongated period.
    I actually feel it's more of a short-term thing because it doesn't really address any root problems. But sometimes I don't know what else to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by moredhel View Post
    An EII also values a peaceful environment.
    Yes, yes, yes.

    I probably would actually have an overall easier time if I could muster up the... whatever... it takes to be really upfront and firm with people when I need to, especially in "real life" situations. I'm working on it, but it's still kind of hard.

    My ideal is where it's peaceful and everyone is on good terms. Excitement in terms of activity is fine, but... relational peace is the best.


    Quote Originally Posted by moredhel View Post
    Nothing about being a humanist/humanitarian says you need to disregard personal opinions about people and love everyone equally, nor does it say you can't ignore people who are having a negative impact on your life and or environment, particularly when said people are in no need of aid and are simply being rude.
    Thanks, I agree.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Minde, you are morally arrogant and that creates shallowness and selfishness not to mention not putting people first. Keep putting the bible and any other book ahead of the human heart. I'm sure you, the fish, and Jesus will find a way to not feed people and get them to live. The bible says a lot of really mean things, do they apply? I don't think so. Would you walk around stoning people? I don't think so...so keep listening to something which doesn't teach you a damn thing you can't feel for yourself when faced with someone who's soul is in your heart.

    I have to EARN the right to interact with you; a person who I have been open and inviting to who calls me a "decent" relations?

    piss off. If my boyfriend were here, he'd call you a lot of other mean things. You're lucky he's not because I'm a lot nicer than he is and a lot more protective of others.

    YOU ARE NOT EXPLORING THE MAXIMUM POTENTIAL OF ANYTHING; YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO HAVE GOOD RELATIONS. YOU'RE A CLOSED DOOR.

    MY TERMS:

    1. If you want to have a good relationship with me then put people and their feelings first.
    That includes my feelings (that might actually teach you how to be an Fi). WOW WHAT A CONCEPT...I HAVE TO TEACH SOMEONE WHO SAYS THEY ARE AN FI HOW TO BE AN FI. *SHAKES HER HEAD*

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I actually feel it's more of a short-term thing because it doesn't really address any root problems. But sometimes I don't know what else to do.
    You're being arrogant and not nice. I've been trying to build good relations with you but you turn around and call us decent is like slapping me in my face for my efforts. That makes you a B....
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 08-09-2011 at 03:43 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    mean things
    bugger, fanny, shit-flap, roger me, etc.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Minde, you are morally arrogant and that creates shallowness and selfishness not to mention not putting people first. Keep putting the bible and any other book ahead of the human heart. I'm sure you, the fish, and Jesus will find a way to not feed people and get them to live. The bible says a lot of really mean things, do they apply? I don't think so. Would you walk around stoning people? I don't think so...so keep listening to something which doesn't teach you a damn thing you can't feel for yourself when faced with someone who's soul is in your heart.

    I have to EARN the right to interact with you; a person who I have been open and inviting to who calls me a "decent" relations?

    piss off. If my boyfriend were here, he'd call you a lot of other mean things. You're lucky he's not because I'm a lot nicer than he is and a lot more protective of others.

    YOU ARE NOT EXPLORING THE MAXIMUM POTENTIAL OF ANYTHING; YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO HAVE GOOD RELATIONS. YOU'RE A CLOSED DOOR.
    Leave her alone, if you haven't got anything nice to say don't say anything at all, ever heard of that one?
    Where on earth is all this aggression coming from anyway? Not only are you making absolutely no sense but your lashing out at genuinely nice, caring people.

  15. #175
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Moredhel,

    She's not disregarding my behavior to be "nice" to me; she's treating me meanly because it is I who has been trying hard to have good relations with her and she's the one turning around and distancing herself by being purposefully mean to me. And, she calls her distance as being "peaceful" when it's just a way for her to ignore people. I've been nice to her, concerned about her feelings and family and she turns around and calls our relations "decent" like slapping me on my face for being so nice.

    If she cares about relations and having warm relations, maybe she should have tried harder on her end and not said such mean and condescending remarks to me.

    I mean, look how mean she is...in not a direct way. She says she's "fine with me being EII" then she makes a reference to what I say as the same thing as an EIE would say; in an indirect way saying that I am EIE....

    SO F ING MEAN.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  16. #176
    Park's Avatar
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    Maritsa baby, why so sexy?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    LOL, Parkster, you know how to diffuse a tense situation with your Si.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  18. #178
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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  19. #179
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    It's always the wonderful Si that gets us Delta NF's to relax (pleasant, warm relations, good food, great wine)...I wish my boyfriend were home.

    I know how to make those, actually. I'd love to indulge myself in some over-activation.

    The question is, why do I get so wrapped up in my feelings (Fi) to the point where I completely disregard my subconscious functions, like Te and Si...this deserves a closer look.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  20. #180
    Kim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    The question is, why do I get so wrapped up in my feelings (Fi) to the point where I completely disregard my subconscious functions, like Te and Si...this deserves a closer look.
    I can totally relate to this and my solution has been to set up boundaries. You can't be friends with everyone and you don't have to forgive everyone everything. Ever since I have been making a conscious effort to NOT put everyone else's needs above my own, I am a much happier person. In the end I cannot have fruitful relationships when I waste energy on lost causes.

    Even as an EII you are allowed to dislike people, ignore people, and stop searching for a potential for understanding that might just not be there (even among identicals). Humanists and humanitarians can only save the world when they keep themselves emotionally stable and happy.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  21. #181
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    The question is, why do I get so wrapped up in my feelings (Fi) to the point where I completely disregard my subconscious functions, like Te and Si...this deserves a closer look.
    I can totally relate to this and my solution has been to set up boundaries. You can't be friends with everyone and you don't have to forgive everyone everything. Ever since I have been making a conscious effort to NOT put everyone else's needs above my own, I am a much happier person. In the end I cannot have fruitful relationships when I waste energy on lost causes.

    Even as an EII you are allowed to dislike people, ignore people, and stop searching for a potential for understanding that might just not be there (even among identicals). Humanists and humanitarians can only save the world when they keep themselves emotionally stable and happy.
    Thank you

    But, you don't put Fi first, like I do. It's harder for me to do those things that's why they call me Humanist/Humanitarian, because people come first.

    If I stopped searching for potential for understanding that would be the end of me...that's who I am.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    It's always the wonderful Si that gets us Delta NF's to relax (pleasant, warm relations, good food, great wine)...I wish my boyfriend were home.

    I know how to make those, actually. I'd love to indulge myself in some over-activation.

    The question is, why do I get so wrapped up in my feelings (Fi) to the point where I completely disregard my subconscious functions, like Te and Si...this deserves a closer look.
    Sounds like you need a hot SLI lover who can jump in when your boyfriend is not around, cook some crepes, fix your cabinet, diffuse your underwear, and show you some love.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  23. #183
    Minde's Avatar
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    Right. Well.


    Maritsa, first, I'm sorry your feelings are hurt.

    Something that I think you'll just have to accept is that I'm not going to be as gushy and sweet as you'd prefer. I'd have to put on a veneer simply to please you; not only would that be exhausting to me but it'd be ultimately unfair to you since it would end up hiding my true thoughts/feelings.

    Also, I'm not going to get in a very deep relationship/friendship with you. If you like, I can explain my reasons for that. But I will say in brief that it doesn't have to do with my valuation of you as a human being.

    That said, I'm perfectly capable of having non-gushy positive relationships and I'd be happy to have one of those with you.

    Which leads me to my second thought, and that is that I'll again state that more positive = better, and thus "decent" > bad. If you want to continue to be upset and angry and bitter and hurt and lash out at me, that's something you can do. But I'd prefer -- if we can't be on good terms -- to at least be on neutral terms and not get into fights. Especially since this seem to be hurting you so much.

    If it's so much of a painful effort to be nice to me (which you seem to be implying when you talk of how you've asked about my family, etc.) then stop stressing yourself and just let it go.




    As for the EIE thing... I can't help but , and then attempt clarification:

    Please go back and read my post. I specifically said I was not calling you EIE. In fact, I've been one of the few people to consistently state that you're EII, even in the face of opposition. So, again, please re-read my post, and then look back at my pattern of behavior and stop freaking out. Not everything I say is an attack on you. In fact, very little of what I say is meant to put you down.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  24. #184
    Kim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Sounds like you need a hot SLI lover who can jump in when your boyfriend is not around, cook some crepes, fix your cabinet, diffuse your underwear, and show you some love.
    I want one, too!
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  25. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post

    But, you don't put Fi first, like I do. It's harder for me to do those things.
    I know several EII who underwent the same process and have been much happier since they put their own needs first. You can still be compassionate and forgiving. Everyone needs boundaries.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  26. #186
    Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I can totally relate to this and my solution has been to set up boundaries. You can't be friends with everyone and you don't have to forgive everyone everything. Ever since I have been making a conscious effort to NOT put everyone else's needs above my own, I am a much happier person. In the end I cannot have fruitful relationships when I waste energy on lost causes.

    Even as an EII you are allowed to dislike people, ignore people, and stop searching for a potential for understanding that might just not be there (even among identicals). Humanists and humanitarians can only save the world when they keep themselves emotionally stable and happy.
    That's pretty much what I've been getting at. Thank you for putting it like that. Sometimes you just have to say, "no, that's enough, I can't do anymore." For the sake of everybody involved.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  27. #187
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    As for the EIE thing... I can't help but , and then attempt clarification:

    Please go back and read my post. I specifically said I was not calling you EIE. In fact, I've been one of the few people to consistently state that you're EII, even in the face of opposition. So, again, please re-read my post, and then look back at my pattern of behavior and stop freaking out. Not everything I say is an attack on you. In fact, very little of what I say is meant to put you down.
    Just that you inserted a reference to an EIE was enough to make people visually assume things, but for some reason, those things aren't important to you and I don't know why.

    As for relations...as long as you treat others with humanity and the respect that human beings deserve to be given is enough for me. I don't need to have any level of relations with you. You're not good for me.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  28. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    If the goal's to avoid discomfort and pain, I'd say "avoiding" the source is a surprisingly prudent, forward-thinking thing to do, really.

    I assume, though, (with absolutely no data to back it up) that your rationality and level-headedness are kinda rare among most avoidant folk. My whine was more directed at the whole lazily passive "Nanny-nanny boo-boo, I can't hear you" vibe that most people give off when they publicly hit IGNORE.

    Socionics aside, your decision makes a ton of sense to me.
    Thanks for the compliments.

    I wasn't talking about the forum ignore button. I personally have only used it once, and it didn't last long.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  29. #189
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Right. Well.


    Maritsa, first, I'm sorry your feelings are hurt.

    Something that I think you'll just have to accept is that I'm not going to be as gushy and sweet as you'd prefer. I'd have to put on a veneer simply to please you; not only would that be exhausting to me but it'd be ultimately unfair to you since it would end up hiding my true thoughts/feelings.

    Also, I'm not going to get in a very deep relationship/friendship with you. If you like, I can explain my reasons for that. But I will say in brief that it doesn't have to do with my valuation of you as a human being.

    That said, I'm perfectly capable of having non-gushy positive relationships and I'd be happy to have one of those with you.

    Which leads me to my second thought, and that is that I'll again state that more positive = better, and thus "decent" > bad. If you want to continue to be upset and angry and bitter and hurt and lash out at me, that's something you can do. But I'd prefer -- if we can't be on good terms -- to at least be on neutral terms and not get into fights. Especially since this seem to be hurting you so much.

    If it's so much of a painful effort to be nice to me (which you seem to be implying when you talk of how you've asked about my family, etc.) then stop stressing yourself and just let it go.
    "They treasure deep feelings of attachment and strive to deepen emotional bonds between people and harmonize relationships."

    That's your idea of DEEPENING RELATIONS? LOL

    Let's revert relations to Bad..."decent" so we can deepen them...LOL

    You don't know what an Fi is not at least Fi Ne...you should read up on that:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=EII
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  30. #190
    Minde's Avatar
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    Maritsa, I'd appreciate it if you treated me the way you'd like to be treated. I.e. you don't like it when I even accidentally hint that you're not EII, so I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to attack my self-typing.

    Thanks.


    I understand you're upset right now, but please try to see it from other perspectives. You're talking about the value of pursuing positive relationships but here you are tearing apart the tenuously good one we have (or, had). You're not harmonizing right now; you're causing even more dissonance between us. It's inconsistent and makes it hard to take some of what you say seriously. Please just calm down. Eat some crepes, drink some wine, cuddle up in a blanket, listen to some soothing, heart-warming music. Parkster had a good idea.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  31. #191
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Maritsa, I'd appreciate it if you treated me the way you'd like to be treated. I.e. you don't like it when I even accidentally hint that you're not EII, so I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to attack my self-typing.

    Thanks.


    I understand you're upset right now, but please try to see it from other perspectives. You're talking about the value of pursuing positive relationships but here you are tearing apart the tenuously good one we have (or, had). You're not harmonizing right now; you're causing even more dissonance between us. It's inconsistent and makes it hard to take some of what you say seriously. Please just calm down. Eat some crepes, drink some wine, cuddle up in a blanket, listen to some soothing, heart-warming music. Parkster had a good idea.
    The last time we had this discomfort between us I expected this from you:

    "However, if the offender asks for forgiveness and manifests the desire to change the situation than this state of offense may rapidly pass."

    For you to let the event pass and warm your relation. You instead made it "decent." I'm not valuing you as an EII because you held a grudge or inability to be friendly and manifest a desire to change our situation, instead making it worse when I made it better.

    We don't have a "good" relationship, you just called us "decent".
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  32. #192
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Minde,

    stop responding to me (I'll try to pretend I never met you.)

    "High emotionalism, in combination with rationality, frequently leads the EII to replay their role in a past situation over and over. The center of excitation, in their consciousness, darkens all other aspect of life when this occurs. She finds it difficult to focus on anything different. Mentally, again and again, she returns to one and the same; she may speak about this lest it occur that others, around her, find it irritating"

    I'm sorry I'm repeating myself...You need to go away now.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  33. #193
    Minde's Avatar
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    Maritsa, you're kind of assuming my motivations, and the assumptions aren't entirely correct. If you ever get curious about the truth, feel free to ask.

    Anyway, I get the feeling that nothing I say right now will do much good. I hope when your boyfriend gets home he can help make you feel better.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  34. #194
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    And, please stop copying my style and format, for goodness sake, can't you come up with original ideas yourself? Jesus.

    I write

    Minde,



    You write

    Maritsa,

    WTH?

    AND GO GET A MAN... a woman your age shouldn't be hanging out on forums. LOL
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  35. #195
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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  36. #196
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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  37. #197
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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  38. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    And, please stop copying my style and format, for goodness sake, can't you come up with original ideas yourself? Jesus.

    I write

    Minde,



    You write

    Maritsa,

    WTH?

    AND GO GET A MAN... a woman your age shouldn't be hanging out on forums. LOL
    Get a grip. You are misreading what she wrote because you are overly sensitive at this point. Just let it go. Learn to DETACH.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  39. #199
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    Maritsa you've been banned from posting in this thread for consistent provocation and harassment of a member
    Please try to keep members types debates to the What's My Type? subforum in the future instead of diverting threads into flame wars, at least out of respect for the OP's
    EII INFj
    Forum status: retired

  40. #200
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    wtf is wrong with you?! you just ruined a potentially juicy thread.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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