But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I've also thought of "caring" as looking after someone when I first saw this thread. Which reminded me of Care and Feeding of a Mate (Guardian = SJ, Artisan = SP, Idealist = NF, Rationalist = NT, for unfamiliar with Keirsey).
To take care of me:
1. Provide me with balance using Te, for mental and emotional health, which I have previously asked you to do and which you have conveniently neglected.
2. Provide healthy Si exposure and don't overdo it like ISTp's can..
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
but what does that mean?
Be the voice of reason behind the emotions.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
for IEEs (less so with EIIs?)
IEEs seem to want to freely talk about all of their past relational experiences. It's actually kind of weird. I think this is sort of a Ti polr thing, maybe? I don't think they realize how it can weird out other people. It happened to me and another one of my friends - she was a female SLI, and got that same weirdness from a male IEE.
I don't talk about my past relationships, in fact, I wish that they disappeared into the abyss.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I've spoken about my X-BF ISTp once or twice on the forum, but I don't hold any ill feelings or resentments about the relationships; I just wish I had known why our relationship wasn't whole and could express my feelings in words and break things off sooner. I was with him for a long time -there I'm talking about it. Stop activating this function.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 08-21-2010 at 05:39 AM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Yeah I don't want to be reminded of them.
I don't know about the vomiting part; I always had this disgust for that.
I'm sorry that I shifted what you said around in your original post to be like what I wrote in the above, if you can compare and contrast. (oh sorry Ti ignoring)...That's just my Ti role.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Probably because those relationships were not bad, they were just not good enough for any million number of weird reasons, meaning the IEE probably wasnt hurt (or was but rationalizes he wasnt) so he doesnt see problems talking about it. I do talk about my past relationships but I guess I try to first find out what would be a reaction. NOT talking about it seems weird for me too, it is part of your life experience, knowing it can help you understand the person better.
Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.
ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
The Ineffable IEI
The Einstein ENTp
johari nohari
http://www.mypersonality.info/ssmall/
Because the prospects of the present relationship and the future development of it should be much more important and should deserve more attention.
The question is why should we wait until ESTj's are ready to approach us when they are ready to help? They should in all ideally come to us when they are ready or not, a little vulnerability and uncertainty is ok in any relationship.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
agree. especially with the bolded.
i talk about past relationships if it comes up. i mean drabbling on constantly about them or completely refusing to acknowledge they existed both seem sort of equally weird to me. i do try to be sensitive toward how the guy will react, and i'm not completely uninhibited about what i say. but if he wants to live in a fantasy world where i just popped into the world on the day i met him, then i take that as sort of a bad sign anyway lol.
I have a question for NFs
What do you look for from a relationship partner in terms of dealing with people? An NF recently said (of an SLI) that yeah, the SLI was a little gruff and not tactful, but said things that the IEE wished to say but could not (because it was so direct).
Do you relate to that?
i like how straightforward LSEs tend to be in conversation because i don't have to worry about ascertaining hidden motives or trying to figure out what they're "really" saying. it's like a weight off my shoulders.
i don't know if it's that they say "what i wished i could say" so much as give credit toward things that i might blow off too easily. like if i'm bothered by something i sometimes don't really allow myself to react to it because i feel like maybe i'm overreacting or i don't want to start conflict or something. and LSEs tend to sort of give me "permission" to feel the way i do and validate whatever it is that i'm trying to hold back.
also, if they're classically extroverted, which they usually are ime, then i appreciate having attention taken away from me and moved toward them.
They have to be polite, respectful, follow some general outwardly socially acceptable formalities, show up on time, and fulfill promises.
I don't mind a little gruffness and tactlessness as long as the person pays attention to me when I point them out that what they are doing is not acceptable; usually my X SLI would not stop to pay attention to me when I would poke him or pull his sleeve when he passed a certain mark where I knew for sure that what he was saying was going to hurt other people's emotions. My LSE cousin is a lot more attentive and responsive to me, this maybe why she and I sit next to each another all the time, because she can turn to me and get the sign that something she's said is ok or not (I know those fine lines between things that are ethical and not and I point them out).
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 08-23-2010 at 05:47 AM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Oh yeah along those lines, in regards to their interaction with me personally, I really appreciate how delta STs enjoy listening to what i have to say, and actually give me a chance to say it in my uneloquent way. Also they dont make me feel self-conscious about what i say and things i do that i think were clumsy or embarrassing. In one particular instance, when i had an embarrassing moment, the SLI made a joke about something completely unrelated, and it just diffused everything perfectly. But this really has included both SLIs (at least, the one SLI I've ever known) as well as LSEs in my experience.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I find that TeSi's are a mix of strength and gentleness, courage and vulnerability, a rather non-threatening interior with a solemn exterior. It makes for an approachable person, for me at least.
I feel like they have everything under control while at the same time they're not commanding or rough like an Se ego, or at least they back off quickly when there's an indication that they're coming off that way. IMO, being tactful but gentle is utterly important when dealing with FiNe's
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
I dont think I look for anything from my partner in terms of dealing with people. I can deal with them fine on my own and I dont think I need something from my partner in this regard. Surely sometimes I am being polite instead of just saying what I think, but on the other hand Im not so sure I would always apreciate someone being direct in those situations. In some cases I would, where I compromise my own goals just to be nice or whatever, in some other cases I would not, where there is indirect value for me for the way I act/say/do/whatever.
All in all, I see how someone being direct could help me, but its not something I actively seek.
Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.
ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
The Ineffable IEI
The Einstein ENTp
johari nohari
http://www.mypersonality.info/ssmall/
I think this is ultimately situational.
Rude people are generally unfavourable.
However, if someone is direct and the intention is good or at least sensible/fair in some manner (you could say is related to Fi) then that's usually fine.
It also depends on other things, for instance, if they are direct but also correct then it's fine. Someone can be gruff, not tactful, and also wrong (whether by logic or by principle).
I'm not *that* interested in someone being polite just for the sake of it, HOWEVER there's plenty gruff and non-tactful people who are just being asses.
Another thing to consider is the bond that already exists. If someone is gruff or tactless and I already like them, then i'll try to work out what's wrong, maybe just think "oh, they're only in a bad mood...just stressed etc" but if I don't like them then it often just adds to the 'reasons not to like'.
Overall, i'm not sure if any of this is type related or if everyone is like that.
So, I think that's the best I can answer for now.
I enjoy SLIs but I absolutely agree with that. They can be gruff and tactless, and there is just something about them you can't control- maybe it's the fact that they absolutely ignore you or blow you off when you try to put them in line. LSEs at least sit there and ask you why or how they're wrong, and even if they refuse to listen they at least give you the chance to make your case. And usually if they're good at it, they can Te you into agreeing with them with that silly almost dead-pan view of the world where feelings are inconsequential to other things. Which is always a nice side of things to see.
I find that both STs say things I would want to, and even moreso they're great at putting together the words to communicate what's actually on me mind.
As for dealing with people, I don't mind as long as they're on my side. They can get angry or upset with anyone they want for whatever reason they want- their moods that are not directed or caused by me have nothing to do with me. I'll offer comfort and try to resolve the issue, but I will not interfere.
And because relationships were mentioned earlier in this thread, I feel it important to mention as well that while being too open about past relationships is terrible, not being open enough is just as bad. Your partner should at least understand your past experiences in order to be able to avoid or correct similar mistakes. At least, that's my personal belief.
To ESTj's.
To truly take care of me, make sure I don't get lost in my introverted world and tell me or find a way to get me to stop overanalyzing everything. I can not be left to dwell on my thoughts and on my self for too long because then I will get depressed and focus on my short comings. I need healthy exposure to the sensory world, Si to be exact, and how you provide me with Si is take the sensory stuff and analyze it and think about it and share your findings with me by speaking to me about them and by exposing me to your stories, dissecting why you enjoy those things or not and why you should act on them or not. This causes me to come out of my introverted world and establishes equilibrium with my internal emotions. I am, as an IN type, incapable of living in the present moment; I need to be easily distracted into the present moment with the use of Si and like you did in the delta lounge, when I was overanalyzing, try to sway me on the dance floor more often, that way, I can live in the present. Do gentle activities; don't go all over the place like Se types can taking part in one present activity to another without lingering over the pleasant sensations like Si can easily help create.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-27-2011 at 03:31 AM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Interesting thread, and my thoughts are going in different directions.
I like some of April's replies. And Mattie's.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
Yes, so much. I would rather ignore responsibilities, but they always come back and bite me in the butt. Yet I have to address them if ever I am to become self-sufficient. Such a pain.
Yes. Over the years, I have developed the mindset that objecting to someone's offensive behavior does no good and will be ignored by the person, so why try? Ultimately, I stew and simmer until I can take it no longer, and I explode. The thought that someone values my feelings and emotional comfort, and is even willing to listen and adapt, is... novel.
On an interesting note, I feel the same way about my ESE mother. I admire her giving spirit but feel like she doesn't put her foot down often enough.
Oh, and I agree somewhat about the catering. What I hate is people who walk on eggshells and constantly apologize "just in case". Ideally, I'll tell you if you offend me (though in practice, I don't). In the meantime, grow a backbone.
Haha, yes.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
I thought Deltas were supposed to be more "independent". They don't care too much about mushiness... They don't care too much about romanticism. They are somewhat self-sufficient. Or they should be. Well, everybody should be more independent. Whatever.
Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.
ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
The Ineffable IEI
The Einstein ENTp
johari nohari
http://www.mypersonality.info/ssmall/
Kind of, yes.
Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.
ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
The Ineffable IEI
The Einstein ENTp
johari nohari
http://www.mypersonality.info/ssmall/
lol @ the direction this conversation is going.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
You can't be a great lover and a killer at the same time.