Distracted by mammies

[UDP]

Breasts

[MySaviour]

You have to do the "talk" thing. You can't really go after her.. you have to make her grow interested. She's your dual, eh? You are going to have to subtletly wow her with your smarts. I don't know how you'll do it, because usually your specific skills are appreciated after you apply them to her life at just the right time, when she's actually in need of them.

If you start doing the "get close to" thing, and rely ONLY on subtle gestures, then you'll end up in the friend zone, or seeming weird, or seeming like a coward. If this ESFj is in touch with her inner pity, then when you overdo your "subtle" gestures, she'll catch on that you like her, and (if single) will probably start humoring you in some way. I wouldn't personally be able to handle being humored like that, but you may have better luck, given your mental cloudiness at this point (OMG LOVE, LOVEZ, OMG!). It isn't a completely bad state to end up in, because as she is your dual, her time in pity would give her a chance to warm up to and become comfortable with you. The time you spend together would move you significantly in the "dualization" direction.

Umm.. I guess there are just two things you should avoid, if you want nature to take course: the friend zone, and not doing anything at all, allowing her to slip away.

Dude.. if you can't think of anything to do, then just freak out, act weird, and make her nervous, or something. It might scare her off, sure, but that's her leaving without you going into a self-death. If you sat back, did nothing, and watched her leave (with someone else), then you'll never get over it.

[UDP]

"Tracks of Land"

[Expat]

Maybe send her a very short email wishing her a happy holiday and such?

That can't hurt as an initial gesture; I'm not sure she's ESFj as you seem to be typing her according to MBTI dichotomies. But if she's a socionics ESFj, she appreciates people who remember dates and such.

Also, if you want to establish some sort of dual bond with her, the best thing is to get her talking when you're alone -- about anything, ask her about her day or any small-talk-like subject - not big talk. What she'll expect from you is your to make the connections.

But don't forget this -- although you'll have to show interest in talking to her, the big thing about duality is that it allows you to be fully yourself. What she wants (even if she doesn't realize it), if she's ESFj, is really a guy full of and a PoLR.

[tcaudilllg]

I'd do it.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[UDP]

Boobies

[Expat]

I guess I have to figure out how to 'flaunt' my Ti and Se PoLR in the right ways..... I'm off to do research on my PoLR. I wonder how I should... display it?.

No, don't "flaunt" it. I was half-joking. What she craves is and , and she doesn't mind the PoLR. Do not try to consciously display the PoLR!

[UDP]

Funbags

[UDP]

knockers

[intjguy]

Next time you see her, pull out your cell phone and ask "X, what's your phone number?", then smile like Cary Grant. Buy crest whitestrips if you think it'll give you an extra edge. That's it. No acknowledged "Thanks, I'll call you sometime!". NO!
Just say cool and pocket your phone.


Wait 5 - 9 days, call her up to meet at starbucks for a certain time (never on a weekend besides Sunday) THAT'S IT. No need for bullshit phone conversations, it is not necessary. She'll be much more excited to look at you and talk, and think about you when you're gone.

If she likes you, she'll show up. Be chivalrous, open every door for her and pull her chair back. Use your correlation combined with your natural analytical skill to ask questions:
"Do you have any siblings?"
"3 older brothers."
" Ha, would that make you a sort of masculine girl?"
" Yes! My parents would hate it because they always taught me to skateboard and I would get soo bruised blah blah blah"
You: Listening, laid back, subtly smile for a bit when her enthusiasm grows.
"Ouch. I bet you like watching other people fall, don't you?"
"Yes, it's funny. I'm bad I know." (tease her for being a sadist) or if she says "Hehe no." Then you use and say, "Cool, just making sure I don't have a sadist with me." And smile.


This should be the easiest for you. Keep her talking for at least 80% of the conversation. Awkward silences? Beat her at her own game and sip your coffee/eat your food, then smile back. She can't discomfort you, you're INTJ after all

If she's interested, she'll counter attack with personal questions about you, or even better she'll touch you. Answer the personal questions briefly, maybe in a funny way if you are capable, but you must quickly divert the interview and point it against HER.

Remember, women like who you are: the silent, strong type. You have an edge man, you just gatta see it work.

Oh btw UDP, take out as many girls as you can. Practice is practice. Buy dating more women, you will build your for what they like to hear and strengthen your analytical questioning skills. And sincerely, good luck with this esfj. I have yet to be lucky enough to find one.


Typical INTJ screwups:
Serious topics. Keep these for the messageboards and the guys. Women like to hear light and funny topics, that's about it.
Too many compliments. Keep them at the most minimal you can.
Buying her gifts/flowers. Stop.
Looking too happy to be there. I know you've mastered hiding irritation under a smile, but how about the opposite? Suppress them smiles man, but hopefully you're not that head over heels for her yet. Because the best way to get a girl is to keep her liking YOU more than you like her. Women love to chase, and that's that.

Edit: GOD DAMN IT. This thread was in 2006? Damn man... I hope you didn't miss your golden opportunity.

*shrugs* date girls anyway.

[tcaudilllg]

Man I'm telling you ESFjs never get the hint. Don't hint, be explicit. If you want an person to be your girlfriend, you're going to have to use the words "would you like to be my girlfriend?" Nothing else will cut it. Without the relationship they won't understand their role. Tell them you want X relationship, and if they feel they can afford it it's a done deal.

[intjguy]

edited

[intjguy]

Man I'm telling you ESFjs never get the hint. Don't hint, be explicit. If you want an person to be your girlfriend, you're going to have to use the words "would you like to be my girlfriend?" Nothing else will cut it. Without the relationship they won't understand their role. Tell them you want X relationship, and if they feel they can afford it it's a done deal.

You need to raise the girl's interest in you first or you'll get rejected. Taking her out should give her the hint enough. In fact, I wouldn't even ask her to be my girlfriend; I'd never take her out on weekends until she says whats up. She'll be like "why don't you ever take me out on fridays or saturdays? are you seeing someone else??" Then you ask her if she'd like to be exclusive, because those things go hand in hand to you.

If she doesn't ask, then she just likes hanging out with a guy and can't stand being alone. Yes, women like that exist. NEXT.

[aestrivex]

kill her.

[Subteigh]

[cracka]

hahahahaahahaha!!! L O L ! ! !

[tcaudilllg]

Man I'm telling you ESFjs never get the hint. Don't hint, be explicit. If you want an person to be your girlfriend, you're going to have to use the words "would you like to be my girlfriend?" Nothing else will cut it. Without the relationship they won't understand their role. Tell them you want X relationship, and if they feel they can afford it it's a done deal.

You need to raise the girl's interest in you first or you'll get rejected. Taking her out should give her the hint enough. In fact, I wouldn't even ask her to be my girlfriend; I'd never take her out on weekends until she says whats up. She'll be like "why don't you ever take me out on fridays or saturdays? are you seeing someone else??" Then you ask her if she'd like to be exclusive, because those things go hand in hand to you.

If she doesn't ask, then she just likes hanging out with a guy and can't stand being alone. Yes, women like that exist. NEXT.

What the hell--?

First of all, if your doesn't like the ESFj, you probably shouldn't be bothering her about anything like dating. ESFjs know where their hearts lie and in most instances they are on the lookout for complementary : facts that match their personal ideal of reality. If you don't believe in facts that reinforce her ideal, you've got no shot for the long term.

[Logos]

Ha, Aztec snowmen get me laughing every time.

[UDP]

This thread was over a year ago I sounds like, alas, your typical freshman. Would it be a huge loss if it was deleted? EDIT: nevermind, I actually remembered my old password and modified the posts to be more direct. The therad need not be deleted.*
It is uncomfortable seeing that outdated mindset again. Feels like years, lifetimes ago.

PS: the individual in question was definitely not ESFj, I just wanted her to be that way because she had a good body. Now that I am not distracted by boobies, and know more about socionics, I would say she is from a quadra, rational. Very outside chance of being EIE.


* INTj said some things that may be useful to LIIs. Perhaps I should make this into an INTj dating advice thread?

[UDP]

Edit: GOD DAMN IT. This thread was in 2006? Damn man... I hope you didn't miss your golden opportunity.

Your advice is not half bad, actually.
The woman in question is not really my type anyways. I have edited things to be a little more accurate in why I was fascinated with her.