Te or Ti?

[silverchris9]

IxFps should be barred from voting.

Some people need to vote for purely emotional reasons. Helps keep the system balanced.

[discojoe]

Some people need to vote for purely emotional reasons. Helps keep the system balanced.

[Beautiful sky]

Again Dj; what one thing have you formed multiple systems for doing it? Any example would help. I gave one of my LSI boss and his nurotic attempt at forming a mailing system. If you know what Ti is any you do it yourself, then you should be able to provide me with a really good example of this.

[discojoe]

Again Dj; what one thing have you formed multiple systems for doing it? Any example would help. I gave one of my LSI boss and his nurotic attempt at forming a mailing system. If you know what Ti is any you do it yourself, then you should be able to provide me with a really good example of this.

LSIs don't form multiple systems, they find the best system and forcefully implement it, or they take an existing system and perfect it.

Your illiteracy on this subject is embarrassing.

[Beautiful sky]

LSIs don't form multiple systems, they find the best system and forcefully implement it, or they take an existing system and perfect it.

Your illiteracy on this subject is embarrassing.

Te picks a system that it reasonably expects will work well and from many systems will implement the most efficient one, in the most efficient working way, thus forming methods.

I've already given you an example of how Ti forms many systems.

They do not perfect systems they form them from available information and hence can form many. They don't concentrate on Te and efficiency.

[Beautiful sky]

Here's the example of the two in real works...

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/663080-post83.html

[discojoe]

Te picks a system that it reasonably expects will work well and from many systems will implement the most efficient one, in the most efficient working way, thus forming methods.

I've already given you an example of how Ti forms many systems.

They do not perfect systems they form them from available information and hence can form many. They don't concentrate on Te and efficiency.

Te doesn't care about systems. It cares about "choices" -- namely, which choice, A, B, or C, will lead to objective 1 being carried out with the least cost.

[Beautiful sky]

Te doesn't care about systems. It cares about "choices" -- namely, which choice, A, B, or C, will lead to objective 1 being carried out with the least cost.

Well, that's exactly what Ti does, makes choices, from which Te will pick the one most efficient, economically and otherwise (saves energy).

I just provided the example of Ti, so please actually read it. Those A, B, C and D's are the choices that Ti creates and from which Te will select the most efficient one.

[discojoe]

Well, that's exactly what Ti does, makes choices, from which Te will pick the one most efficient, economically and otherwise (saves energy).

I just provided the example of Ti, so please actually read it. Those A, B, C and D's are the choices that Ti creates and from which Te will select the most efficient one.

It doesn't matter if Ti is involved in the logical process of creating the choices. The fucking goddamn mother cocking point is that it's Te that does the actual choosing.

Stop over-complicating everything with your crappy logic.

[Beautiful sky]

It doesn't matter if Ti is involved in the logical process of creating the choices. The fucking goddamn mother cocking point is that it's Te that does the actual choosing.

Stop over-complicating everything with your crappy logic.

Te = efficiency, so that means I actually do things but not in an efficient as possible manner. That means I would rather Te do the efficientizing and making methods, ways of doing something for us, not me.

I have Ti as a role function.
I still have logic, perhapse a lot more then your tinny weinny brain.

Ti role means that I know systems exist and I can understand them very well, but that "EIIs are not easily able to abstract themselves from the human dimension and apply "cold" logic. When they try to do this, they easily become unsure if their reasoning is correct."

EIIs feel that not everything can be classified under the system since everything has its unique individual attributes.

That mean, I think people are unique and can not work well under any system. They are not machines.

[Absurd]

Face it Disco - you're LSE. B&D is LSE, mercutio is SLI etc. I'm all for it and agree with Maritsa.

[discojoe]

Te = efficiency, so that means I actually do things but not in an efficient as possible manner. That means I would rather Te do the efficientizing and making methods, ways of doing something for us, not me.

I have Ti as a role function.
I still have logic, perhapse a lot more then your tinny weinny brain.

Ti role means that I know systems exist and I can understand them very well, but that "EIIs are not easily able to abstract themselves from the human dimension and apply "cold" logic. When they try to do this, they easily become unsure if their reasoning is correct."

EIIs feel that not everything can be classified under the system since everything has its unique individual attributes.

That mean, I think people are unique and can not work well under any system. They are not machines.

I love how you refer to the literature only when it happens to say something that supports you, but you totally ignore the myriad of other instances where it contradicts what you say. Nice logic.

[Beautiful sky]

I love how you refer to the literature only when it happens to say something that supports you, but you totally ignore the myriad of other instances where it contradicts what you say. Nice logic.

Ti role in me, because I can see these contridictions and see that they are not relevant.

[discojoe]

Ti role in me, because I can see these contridictions and see that they are not relevant.

Ti wouldn't see them as not relevant. They ARE relevant. Either the literature is wrong, and you're right to ignore it, or the literature is correct, in which case 90% of your views on socionics is flawed. The fact that you pick and choose which parts of the literature to use in your arguments shows that you cannot distinguish between good and bad information.

You absolutely suck at both Ti and Te.

[Beautiful sky]

Ti wouldn't see them as not relevant. They ARE relevant. Either the literature is wrong, and you're right to ignore it, or the literature is correct, in which case 90% of your views on socionics is flawed. The fact that you pick and choose which parts of the literature to use in your arguments shows that you cannot distinguish between good and bad information.

You absolutely suck at both Ti and Te.

And, the fact that you can pic these INFORMATIONS/facts shows that you have Te ego block. My information comes from Russian version of socionics, which I see is accurate based on my observations of their workings.

[discojoe]

And, the fact that you can pic these INFORMATIONS/facts shows that you have Te ego block. My information comes from Russian version of socionics, which I see is accurate based on my observations of their workings.

The ignoring function is something you can easily use, but prefer not to, favoring the base function. That said, I can easily use Te to solve problems, but it is a conscious mental exertion.

[Beautiful sky]

Obviously, you don't read what I write so here it is again...

Here's an example:

My boss is LSI type; I am not fond of him having made 6 systems, for me to take care of a billing process within one year and frustrating the living daylights out of me; my LSE friend, made one, just one; you open the mail and enter the invoices in the system; My LSI boss made the following systems:

System 1.
He opens the mail gives me invoices.

System 2.
He opens the mail, makes copies of invoices and gives me copies.

System 3.
He opens the mail, gives purchasing invoices, and purchasing will give me the copy.

System 4.
He opens the mail, gives purchasing the invoices, purchasing attaches them to PO then gives me the invoices package.

System 5.
He opens the mail, give purchasing a copy of the invoices, then purchasing double checks prices and gives me the copy attached to PO.

System 6.
He opens the mail, gives me the invoice, I enter the invoice and double check the drug prices, the Purchasing person will give me the PO upon order and I attache the po to invoice.

[Beautiful sky]

The ignoring function is something you can easily use, but prefer not to, favoring the base function. That said, I can easily use Te to solve problems, but it is a conscious mental exertion.

So to write what you wrote here drained you or did it come naturally? How about all the other times you input your knowledge and facts/information on the economy and how it works?

If it drains you then why do you do it so passionately?

[discojoe]

So to write what you wrote here drained you or did it come naturally?

To use Te, I have to consciously shut off both my Ti and my Se, as Ti shuts off Te and Se tends to overwhelm it. It aggravates me, but it's not exactly difficult either. I do notice that I tend to easily lose my temper when I switch into Te mode, since it's aggravating dealing with people who refuse to accept reality.

[discojoe]

You can't shut function on and off, it's how your brain receives and circuits and processes information. You can stay away from certain atmospheres where peope use a function that puts a strain on your functions you don't value and annoy you, but to say you can shut off and turn on a function would be like saying that where Fe draws out emotions in others, I would be okay with sitting back and observing it all happen or even extending myself to do what they do.

You can't shut off a function in a literal sense, but you can allocate mental energy away from it and onto another strong area of the psyche. This is obviously true just from my own personal experience.

[Beautiful sky]

To use Te, I have to consciously shut off both my Ti and my Se, as Ti shuts off Te and Se tends to overwhelm it. It aggravates me, but it's not exactly difficult either. I do notice that I tend to easily lose my temper when I switch into Te mode, since it's aggravating dealing with people who refuse to accept reality.

Ti is used to see how it fits into Se, shutting off these two functions simultaneoulsy is a ridiculous idea that you are suggesting.

Even here, you are conjuring a thought excersize that has no material application, hence your Se is not ego block because it's not emphasized; our very conversation is a proof enough of this example.

In conversing with me, here you are neither using Ti nor Se, you're not taking my informations and seeing how they can fit into a system or even if they are applicable in any real sense.

You're engaging me in an intellectual, factual/information based conversation with no Se.

[discojoe]

Ti is used to see how it fits into Se, shutting off these two functions simultaneoulsy is a ridiculous idea that you are suggesting.

Even here, you are conjuring a thought excersize that has no material application, hence your Se is not ego block because it's not emphasized; our very conversation is a proof enough of this example.

In conversing with me, here you are neither using Ti nor Se, you're not taking my informations and seeing how they can fit into a system or even if they are applicable in any real sense.

You're engaging me in an intellectual, factual/information based conversation with no Se.

Cute, you don't even understand what creative functions are. This is pointless. You're borderline autistic.

[Beautiful sky]

Cute, you don't even understand what creative functions are. This is pointless. You're borderline autistic.

Why? You're judging the effectiveness[ ] of our conversation?

Is it poorly done or bound to fail?

[discojoe]

Why? You're judging the effectiveness[ ] of our conversation?

Stop trying to use functions you're weak in. It makes you difficult to like.

[Beautiful sky]

Stop trying to use functions you're weak in. It makes you difficult to like.

I am using my Strong functions, which is Fi, recognizind individual human characteristics and traits as they relate with socionics.

[discojoe]

I am using my Strong functions, which is Fi, recognizind individual human characteristics and traits as they relate with socionics.

No, you try to talk down at people using functions that you're weak in. It makes you come off as bizarre and unlikable.

[Beautiful sky]

No, you try to talk down at people using functions that you're weak in. It makes you come off as bizarre and unlikable.

Why is it that you, claiming to be LSI, and having Fi role never do the following:

The individual recognizes the existence and importance of personal relationships, so he is usually cautious at first about offending others if he does not know them well. To minimize this risk he adheres somewhat simplistically to the relevant social conventions (e.g. political correctness). However, if taken too far this produces stress, as it inhibits his natural introverted logic () inclination to voice exactly what his thoughts are on a given issue or situation, with the expectation that others will appreciate his straightforwardness, rather than accusing him of being insensitive. This caution gradually disappears as he gets to know people better.

He prefers to develop relationships indirectly with others based on open conversation and common activities, and only reveals his innermost personal feelings to those he has known for a long time. He may become confused and suspicious if they are directly solicited by others.

[Beautiful sky]

You are blunt and obsene with your humor that doesn't correspond well to LSI or SLE. See I can use my second strong function, Ne, to argue things from many points of view....that shows how limited your knowledge of socionics really is.

[Nexus]

Is the following post by DJ, Te or Ti? Please offer explanations why or why not? Please dissect away.

This was all , with some possibility for expansion to (for instance, if the topic was less dynamic and extroverted, economics, history, politics, philosophy)

The only truly statement in it was 'You're missing the point. The reason people go to college is to earn a degree, not because they are somehow stuck on the false notion that classroom learning is the only way to become educated.'

There is some -creating in the statement 'How many of these people will contribute to the inevitable economic recovery that will take place in the next five to ten years? You need to look at the big picture and determine if there is a net benefit to society in having these people educated despite the costs incurred.'

The only functions missing were the reasonable ones, which is typical for LSI...

[discojoe]

Why is it that you, claiming to be LSI, and having Fi role never do the following:

The individual recognizes the existence and importance of personal relationships, so he is usually cautious at first about offending others if he does not know them well. To minimize this risk he adheres somewhat simplistically to the relevant social conventions (e.g. political correctness). However, if taken too far this produces stress, as it inhibits his natural introverted logic () inclination to voice exactly what his thoughts are on a given issue or situation, with the expectation that others will appreciate his straightforwardness, rather than accusing him of being insensitive. This caution gradually disappears as he gets to know people better.

He prefers to develop relationships indirectly with others based on open conversation and common activities, and only reveals his innermost personal feelings to those he has known for a long time. He may become confused and suspicious if they are directly solicited by others.

I do that IRL. I don't do it online because there are no consequences.

You are blunt and obsene with your humor that doesn't correspond well to LSI or SLE. See I can use my second strong function, Ne, to argue things from many points of view....that shows how limited your knowledge of socionics really is.

I like tight vaginas.

[discojoe]

This was all , with some possibility for expansion to (for instance, if the topic was less dynamic and extroverted, economics, history, politics, philosophy)

The only truly statement in it was 'You're missing the point. The reason people go to college is to earn a degree, not because they are somehow stuck on the false notion that classroom learning is the only way to become educated.'

There is some -creating in the statement 'How many of these people will contribute to the inevitable economic recovery that will take place in the next five to ten years? You need to look at the big picture and determine if there is a net benefit to society in having these people educated despite the costs incurred.'

The only functions missing were the reasonable ones, which is typical for LSI...

Lol you're stupid and don't understand economics.

[xerx]

Lol you're stupid and don't understand economics.

To be fair, no one *really* understands economics.

[norph]

In my opinion, the field of economics as an academic study is almost all .

[Nexus]

In my opinion, the field of economics as an academic study is almost all .

economics is in actuality the -formulated study of people who use (collectively) way too much

[Beautiful sky]

This was all , with some possibility for expansion to (for instance, if the topic was less dynamic and extroverted, economics, history, politics, philosophy)

The only truly statement in it was 'You're missing the point. The reason people go to college is to earn a degree, not because they are somehow stuck on the false notion that classroom learning is the only way to become educated.'

There is some -creating in the statement 'How many of these people will contribute to the inevitable economic recovery that will take place in the next five to ten years? You need to look at the big picture and determine if there is a net benefit to society in having these people educated despite the costs incurred.'

The only functions missing were the reasonable ones, which is typical for LSI...

No, that's all Te.

[discojoe]

Type this: "Sociology is nonsense"

It is an example of Fe/Ti gone way too far. It exists for the sole purpose of making Te seem evil and uncaring by appealing to emotional sentiments and trying to sound scientific by creating Ti systems of definitions.

It functions by pinpointing things in society that it deems "mean," and then demonizing said things by zooming way out and attacking it from a macro-level perspective. It gathers individuals into arbitrary groups, and then accuses the more powerful group of "exploiting" the less powerful group, despite the fact that there is no collusion within the powerful group to exploit anyone and that its power stems from its individuals making independent decisions on their own.

It is nothing more than the concerted effort of jealous, worthless little people trying to institutionally oppress anyone whom they do not like, as if the remedy for perceived, illusionary oppression were to create real government oppression.

It is the science of evil. Fe/Ti people should use their powers to enforce and defend the Te free market, not attack it from a social angle with their own lack of understanding.

[Beautiful sky]

Type this: "Sociology is nonsense"

Is this directed at me?
You obviously have not seen or observed the interaction between myself and my duals, here on the forum.

Type that!!!
LOL

[discojoe]

Is this directed at me?
You obviously have not seen or observed the interaction between myself and my duals, here on the forum.

Type that!!!
LOL

It's directed at everyone. No subtext.

[squark]

This passage is Te>Ti, imo:


I would expect a Ti-ego to be less pragmatic when chosing a carreer, and I think he/she would normally find it petty to chose based on external factors (alone). I think an LSI would simply say - I am interested in this, so this is what I will do. Then I will find a way to make it work for me (with my Se creative), whereas DJ seems to say I will look at general trends and chose so that blahblahblahblahhhh... (Te). Beta Ti in particular would see more or less subjective "truths", and then try to change/"fix" reality into aligning with this.

I don't know the educational system in the US at all, so there is certainly a possibility it's just rationality making DJ argue as he does.

Other than that, I could see most of his post as him just repeating what he has read (Te imitating), rather than real Te in action. This depends on his level of insight. In my opinon his post shows little real understanding.

My impression also was one of a book report quality, rather than real understanding as well. He comes across as someone who has read something said or reported in a certain way, liked it, and wants to "teach" it to others, rather than someone with an innate understanding or ability to put things his own way. Later in the thread, he says that he uses Te to communicate economics. That's not necessary to do. If you understand something, you shouldn't have to copy others to communicate it.

In my opinion, you can often (but not always) look for allegory, metaphor, or fictional examples showing a concept to find someone who has processed something via Ti or other internal elements, and facts, support, evidence, quotes, or references to particular schools of thought for Te or other external elements. BUT anyone in the fledgling stages of learning is likely to come across as more externally-based, and those who've understood it will internalize it and communicate more that way. So, as an applicable rule, it has little to no value.

[squark]

Fe/Ti people should use their powers to enforce and defend the Te free market, not attack it from a social angle with their own lack of understanding.

Sounds like you know what you value, so why do you type yourself Fe/Ti?