EII-SLE Conflict Relations (INFj & ESTp)

[Rebelondeck]

Being put off by their comments points to your insecurities. Conflict relations are not the worst; it's just that the gulf seems more obvious then say mirrors. What you should be asking yourself is: "Despite everything, can this person be helpful?" If not, steer clear. If yes, then look to yourself as the problem source. I have found that ESTps tend to try to overwhelm but if people don't seem impressed, they do dismount from their chargers; they usually mean well but they often behave like raucous soldiers on leave.......

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

Being put off by their comments points to your insecurities. Conflict relations are not the worst; it's just that the gulf seems more obvious then say mirrors. What you should be asking yourself is: "Despite everything, can this person be helpful?" If not, steer clear. If yes, then look to yourself as the problem source. I have found that ESTps tend to try to overwhelm but if people don't seem impressed, they do dismount from their chargers; they usually mean well but they often behave like raucous soldiers on leave.......

a.k.a. I/O

@Rebelondeck, which relations do you think are the worst?

[Rebelondeck]

@Rebelondeck, which relations do you think are the worst?

This differs greatly from Socionics: From worst to the best of the worst: mirror, quasi-iden, benefit, supervision and conflicting. I put conflicting ahead of supervision though they score the same because it's more of a two-way relationship. Activity and identical aren't anything to write home about either...

a.k.a. I/O

[Number 9 large]

This differs greatly from Socionics: From worst to the best of the worst: mirror, quasi-iden, benefit, supervision and conflicting. I put conflicting ahead of supervision though they score the same because it's more of a two-way relationship. Activity and identical aren't anything to write home about either...

a.k.a. I/O

Okay like 99% either one of the ppl in ur relations is actually mistyped

[Rebelondeck]

Okay like 99% either one of the ppl in ur relations is actually mistyped

I wrote the following article and others because my observations seemed to diverge from Socionics but mistyping is a real possibility. In the article, I also didn't spell Maslow correctly.....

http://www.socionics.com/articles/thestrength.html

a.k.a. I/O

[falsehope]

My father is SLE and my mother is EII and they are clear evidence that conflicting relationships are really bad. My father steers out of the house all the time working in basement and eating in restaurants and comes to home when my mother already sleeps. He wakes up before her and this way they don't see each other. When my dad comes home to the toilet and jokes about something this escalates in fully fledged war and none of them can stop it. Any single word from my mum can trigger my dad that he will start arguing and this also escalates into war. My mum has depression because of it and has diagnosed "exhaustion of defence mechanisms".

On the other hand, I have normal relationships with my mum and it is not conflicting at all and never was. There are worse and better asymmetrical relationships. ILE and EII have Ne so it the communication is normal and there is no tension.

[Rebelondeck]

@falsehope I wonder how your mother would interact and communicate with another ILE, who wasn't her child, and how both would feel in a co-dependent, long-term relationship. Often parents don't express their true opinions of their children, especially not to their children....

a.k.a. I/O

[The Reality Denialist]

I suppose there are factors that makes a huge difference. ESI's that I have typed as dominant subtypes tend to be totally out of whack with me. It would not even happen. Huge mental tension between us. While they may enjoy efficiency improvements that I might tell them but I might tell them stuff using indirect references which makes them totally insane (ambiguity) and I can't stand their pressure and I need to go somewhere quiet to recharge.

[Rebelondeck]

I suppose there are factors that makes a huge difference. ESI's that I have typed as dominant subtypes tend to be totally out of whack with me. It would not even happen. Huge mental tension between us. While they may enjoy efficiency improvements that I might tell them but I might tell them stuff using indirect references which makes them totally insane (ambiguity) and I can't stand their pressure and I need to go somewhere quiet to recharge.

ISFjs have been known to isolate their partners as a way of showing their displeasure; their weapon of choice seems to be robbing their opponents of strength, vigor, or spirit - sometimes playing the sympathy card or martyring themselves. In order to neutralize such tendencies, partners need to be able to understand the objectives and communicate their understandings, and big egos would be assets as well - these tactics usually don't work on a self-confident people who don't mind going it alone for a while.
a.k.a. I/O

[The Reality Denialist]

ISFjs have been known to isolate their partners as a way of showing their displeasure; their weapon of choice seems to be robbing their opponents of strength, vigor, or spirit - sometimes playing the sympathy card or martyring themselves. In order to neutralize such tendencies, partners need to be able to understand the objectives and communicate their understandings, and big egos would be assets as well - these tactics usually don't work on a self-confident people who don't mind going it alone for a while.
a.k.a. I/O

So, I have noted in a way. It is just totally not effective as I have hard time to believe that this "I leave you alone" system actually exist. I'm totally indifferent.

[Sol]

So, I have noted in a way. It is just totally not effective as I have hard time to believe that this "I leave you alone" system actually exist. I'm totally indifferent.

What was said relates to E-9, which should be often base Fi. Not specific to EII only.

E-9 are easily offenced and stop communications. But if they value the relations - they may tolerate you much on the surface - they'll show nothing or you'll notice only slight cold [while inside they may to have serious hurt - it's just stays covered]. This will not be like a lot of small quarrel where you can do maneurs, to have time to understand clearly what happens and how to deal with this. It will be "all ok", but the negative accumulated and then "big boom" after which you'll need a lot efforts to return the relations to norma. This is why you'll try adopt to them as much as possibly with the compassion, tenderness and caution. To avoid "big booms" and to being able to control them by the sympathy you inspire in them. As the more sympathy you are getting - the more conformism will be shown to you to tolerate more from you.
E-9 are very touchy and emotionally tender people, but this is not clear on the surface. They look as phlegmatic and easily forgiving. This makes you blind to what happens and if you'll pass some border - you get serious troubles. It's not just small and temporary troubles - you get the largest troubles which may to exist [including the break] and you get them rather suddenly.
So if you value good relations - you'll do the best of you to reduce this risk. It's better to be overcautious and do as much good as you can, than then to try glue together the relations from almost zero, where you get the cold, indifference, roughness, etc. and do not understand how to return the relations on stable good way. To get temporary success will be not enough - you easily will stick in up-down series, where the relations may return to same zero not a single time and to level up them on better stable level will need huge efforts.
It's very bad idea to control E-9 from negative side like blaming. It's more reasonably to establish the sympathy with them - and they'll agree with you by their natural high conformism.

[The Reality Denialist]

What was said relates to E-9, which should be often base Fi. Not specific to EII only.

E-9 are easily offenced and stop communications. But if they value the relations - they may tolerate you much on the surface - they'll show nothing or you'll notice only slight cold [while inside they may to have serious hurt - it's just stays covered]. This will not be like a lot of small quarrel where you can do maneurs, to have time to understand clearly what happens and how to deal with this. It will be "all ok", but the negative accumulated and then "big boom" after which you'll need a lot efforts to return the relations to norma. This is why you'll try adopt to them as much as possibly with the compassion, tenderness and caution. To avoid "big booms" and to being able to control them by the sympathy you inspire in them. As the more sympathy you are getting - the more conformism will be shown to you to tolerate more from you.
E-9 are very touchy and emotionally tender people, but this is not clear on the surface. They look as phlegmatic and easily forgiving. This makes you blind to what happens and if you'll pass some border - you get serious troubles. It's not just small and temporary troubles - you get the largest troubles which may to exist [including the break] and you get them rather suddenly.
So if you value good relations - you'll do the best of you to reduce this risk. It's better to be overcautious and do as much good as you can, than then to try glue together the relations from almost zero, where you get the cold, indifference, roughness, etc. and do not understand how to return the relations on stable good way. To get temporary success will be not enough - you easily will stick in up-down series, where the relations may return to same zero not a single time and to level up them on better stable level will need huge efforts.
It's very bad idea to control E-9 from negative side like blaming. It's more reasonably to establish the sympathy with them - and they'll agree with you by their natural high conformism.

@Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol
and you still type me as IEE Anyways, this ESI specific stuff makes me to shut it down. I don't want to deal with that kind of people in general [at least long term]. I don't want to serve pseudo-sensitive and pseudo-martyr complex having pseudo-princesses who can still handle real stuff and pressure people.

EII stuff – I can certainly see astronomically much more value in it. It is much less egocentric to me. Anyways, it is just that they correct aka supervise when things get too logical for them.
@Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol

[Sol]

@Troll Nr 007
all is ok. the potential "not emotional" activator

[Spermatozoa]

Advice for EII: Just ignore SLEs. Your best weapon is to not acknowledge them, do not react indignantly and try to shame them because that will only make the situation worse.

Advice for SLE: EIIs are stuck up and annoying a lot of time. Go find someone to hit on who isn't.

[Adam Strange]

Updated link to EII interviewing SLE:

[SaveYourself]

I've been friends with three SLEs now and my friendship has gone the same way every time. First, they ignore me and I think they are really cool: they occupy space confidently, everyone wants to be around them, fun seems to follow them around, they have lots of cool stories etc. (read: all the things a socially awkward EII lacks). Then if they are in my circle its usually because we have similar interests and at some point I'll make an observation about a common interest that will pique the SLE's interest. Following this is a weird period where they take me under their wing and say things like "wow, Lucy is actually cool!" and for a brief time will invite me to parties and make an effort to hang out with me. This is very short lived and ends with me thinking they're dicks and generally exhausting to be around. I decide that actually I don't want to be cool like them and they decide their first impression was actually right and I'm really boring (to them, anyway haha).

In terms on conflict, only one of those three really butted heads with me. Though I think some (if not all of it) was her maturity levels. Like if something went wrong (i.e. we once got lost when on a group holiday together) she would loudly complain and blame every one else. She usually ends up bossing people (me) around (and bullying them [me], imo). But more generally I just find Se so tiring to be around. I want a three day nap after hanging with an Se-ego and at least a time-out after being with Ni-ego betas and gammas.

[Lord Pixel]

I have a good friend who is ESTp and probably for enneagram reasons things are peaceful between us. But we tried to work on a project together and that is where I could easily see how we have very complementary strengths but for some reason could not help each other.

Part of it is the IEs and part was the rationality and irrationality.

When we worked together it was like he could never take no for an answer. because when ever I got even close to saying no he would get a little more defensive each time, I sensed that and just backed off since I'm Se PoLR I felt like I couldn't put up much of a fight, but I also felt like I couldn't be honest and this made me less committed to the project we were working on, it felt like I wasn't really involved, only half of me, the half that didn't make him defensive.

The problem was whenever he came up with ideas for a project my Ne could see all kinds of things that could go wrong and I would troubleshoot all the problems out loud with him like "Ok well what if this doesn't work, or what if this happens? If we do this, this is probably gonna happens do what do we do about that" And I could tell he hated that, but instead of saying "Well we could do this instead." he would just try and give me some answer to shut me up and stop making it seem like whatever idea he had wasn't gonna work, he took it as opposition instead of criticism.

He also learned by doing and action and not hypothetical troubleshooting like how I did. When he came up with an idea , when I would think of all the potential problems and how to fix them beforehand he needed to put it out in the open and see what actually happens. There were times where he would even come back and say I was right but it was hard for me to understand why he couldn't see the same problems I saw beforehand, this was frustrating for both of us. To him it seemed like I was stopping him at every step and to me it seemed like he wasn't fullproofing his ideas.

I also remember when we wanted to make a kickstarter page for our project and we both had 2 different approaches to that as well. I had the perfectionist approach where we had to have everything perfect before we made a page, and he had the rush to the finish line approach where he wanted to make a page within days with the least amount of things needed. Again he felt like I was 2 slow and I felt like he rushed way to much. He even said "I need the momentum in order to do this." like he needed a short term big goal in order to do it because if not it wasn't gonna get done.

With the rational/irrational issues they were pretty literal to those terms. We were making a project with a certain theme, all the ideas I had were things within in that theme, while he felt like we could just toss anything that was trending/hot or just inspired him in the project regardless if it was according to the theme or not , which made my head spin.

For ex: if we were making a baking company, one where you bake cakes, I would come up with ideas about frosting flavors, different kinds of cakes, catering. He would see figdit spinners selling like hot cakes and say "We have to sell those in the bakery." and we also have to sell video games because parents have kids, and we also have to sell rotisserie chicken because I read in an article that's booming, and also vegan, everything has to be vegan because vegans are on the rise!

Next thing you know we not making a bakery, we're making Walmart.

If I tried to argue "what does any of this have to do with a bakery, or cake?" He would just say "It doesn't matter, we can do whatever we want."
And the store would be decorated with a deer head on the wall, a basketball hoop and comic book posters, instead of idk cake stuff lol. And he likes it that way. The randomness. The "doesn't make sense"ness of it all. That's like his element or something.

So we differed there. Sometimes I was too rigid too on theme to the point of redundancy, and sometimes he was too loose everywhere all over the place, random. He felt like I was limiting his ideas too much and I felt like he kept getting distracted with shiny objects and kept being inconsistent.

Where we had complementary strengths was:

He had a hard time coming up with a working interesting consistent idea, but he was real resourceful gathering all these advanced tools to make things with and he also was real good with reaching out to the community to get people/press interested for projects, getting involved in local events and things, which I sucked at but totally needed. I was always couped up in my cave working on some idea but never got out to tell people and never found tools to shortcut the process, but I would dedicate hours/days/weeks just to come up with a working presentable idea, which he needed to take advantage of all the tools and attention he was able to get. So if we could have just worked together well those strengths would have complemented each other but welp our processes made us get in each other's way.

Also I did notice he needs some kind of yes man or blind submission. There was one time in one of our brainstorm sessions he brought and EIE around and that guy was his biggest cheerleader, when I felt the urge to question the ESTp friend's ideas to point out why it's not gonna work the way he thinks it is and what is he gonna do about the glaring potential problems, the EIE would beat me to the punch and say "YES! THAT'S GENIUS BRO! YOU GOTTA DO IT!" and with my ESTp friend I could literally see the confidence in him light up like he started believing in himself more or something, I realized he actually needed that, but I couldn't give it to him because well I just couldn't get on board with an idea I saw all kinds of potential problems with. I guess he needed that Fe boost, and I couldn't fake it for him. When he did hear me out it felt like the wind was taken out of his sails, like the door to the direction he was getting geared up to go in just closed on him.

Another ex: He had the idea to sell tee shirts with people's country flags on them (like a shirt with an italian flag, or puerto rican flag), he wanted to sell the shirts at a local gas station, he was excited because he asked the owner and the owner gave him the ok to sell in his store. He came to me excited and ready to get started on this and the first question that came to mind for me was "Why are people gonna buy clothes at a gas station?" , "The person has to be from the country or really like the country to be interested in buying." "How are people gonna find this place? Are you gonna advertise, or do you just expect them to randomly stumble in and buy a shirt?". Then I suggested "It might work if you do it at the time of the World Cup, that's when people wear their country's shirts, or whatever country they root for." And he felt like I took the wind out of his sales because he thought that was a good point but saw that the World Cup was no time soon.

Still good friends but when trying to be productive we just worked against eachother.

[Muira]

My experience is different since I do have some issues due to having a traumatic childhood, but here are some of my stories/reflections.

Background:[ I met this guy during middle school, 7th grade. I saw him get jumped daily, which reminded my relationship dynamic I had with my mom, so I jumped the people who had basically harmed him. During middle school, that was when I was the most volitional. Just whenever I saw assholes I always liked to fight/humiliate them, I mean I needed something to take out all my pent up anger at, and no way I would want to hurt someone innocent. So then I started to try to be someone who justified things my own way, and it was mainly in a violent way. I ended up dumping the dude who stole the lunch in a trash can, my EII friend was scared and tried to get me to stop, even though I was the only reason no one tried to pick on him since that day we met. Though he did at least thank me for getting him to be more respected, and then he would help me study in return. We had a lot of interests, and I really attracted to his more tender and soft personality, so I asked him to be friends, and he went with it. Eventually I was sticking up for him, pushing anyone I believed would take advantage of him since then, but I'd get frustrated since he kept on forgiving those fucking parasites.]

Once I was just violently sexually assaulted, by an ex in the girls restroom. Also I couldn’t beat them as I was pinned down by her friends, and she was about to switch schools. Nor could I report as I would be outing myself to the school and my parents that I was formerly in a homosexual relationship, and since I am pretty private about such matters in person, online I’d say it if it was needed for context, but in reality if you know me I am very guarded, I generally expect that people will always have malicious intentions so I just assume its always malicious. So i just swallowed it like every other traumatic event in my life, after all the way I think is that “what the hell am I feeling, even still why is even your business.” And that day, I wasn’t in the best of mindset. So I had a friend, a guy, fat, let girls walk all over him. He was the type to be like “misandry is justifiable, its what men get from oppressing women” and more shit. Which as a friend, I wanted whats best for him, and he was one of the very few that I genuinely cared about as he was the one of the only people who turned out not to be snakes. So I got fed up, and it sort of make me just, its hard to describe, but I was just so angry I wasn’t in control of myself so I just took out all my turmoil on him as a lesson what happens to when you let others step on you. He didn’t even deserve it to be honest, and I hate myself for it, he forgave me knowing I tend to abandon broken relations since I just suck at making genuine friendships. So then him forgiving me made me break down, as someone that genuinely had helped me I was rejecting him as a whole since I started to feel like I was just a last opinion to cure his loneliness. He was stubborn and annoying, but looking back at it, I really do thank him so much for sticking around.

He was a reliable was just very kind…I felt like I ruined a friendship that I even forgot that I relied on for some stability, but he knew everything about my childhood and background since I was friends with him for so long. I always tried to help him get stronger and set better boundaries, as its just something he clearly lacks, and I see him as helpless especially since his mother hates men and is a radical misandrist. So I naturally just wanted to help people that seem helpless in a situation that they don’t deserve to be in, but I’m pretty terrible at the delivery. So he was patient and just told my dad that I had a mental break down in private without going into details, as I didn't want anyone knowing what happened to me. So my Dad would then try to get me to talk about my issues, but I still didn’t tell him about me getting Sexually assaulted. I don’t want to tell anyone in real life, as doing so makes me feel like I’m allowing myself to be a victim and I never was really shown a way to even handle personal emotions and judgement at a young age. So I just constantly feel as if I can’t be the victim its just my fault that I wasn’t able to prevent it of my fault for not getting back at them. So eventually I just sort of detached myself from allowing my traumatic experiences shape who I am, as it only makes me so unstable and just so violent as I felt like I didn't have any other outlet.

I had felt like a monster compared to him, and when he forgave me I always felt confused and scared by it. Then on top of that, he would just try and "fix" me, and tried to be my best friend(now he is, or someone I'd consider the only friend I feel a intense emotional connection with). It's strange having one friend you know that will always be there for you. I was pretty harsh towards him in the past, and may have made him cry, but it was my way of trying to show I care for him as I wanted him to improve himself. Eventually he started to work out alongside me and while he sucked, eventually he did become more healthy. Also, I have to point out that he was sort of lazy at times of stress, which I usually would work my ass off when I'm stressed, so we can get into mild arguments but he shuts me up with offering me food. Our friendship is chaotic(because of me), but he has really helped me who I really was and to learn to trust others more often, other than being less offensive. I mean I constantly make offensive jokes, even ones about myself, and he just stares at me in disappointment telling me when I've gone too far(which I rely on). However, I do always find a way to make him laugh or feel better, just in spontaneous random ways.

I scared him at first, but as he learned more about me and my past, he didn't react too much and sort of found a way to calm me down eventually. Though there are traits about him that I tried to weed out myself, like him not taking action or just not being as productive as me when under pressure, trying to please people or not trying to offend anyone. I respect him for sticking to what he thinks is right, and care for him, but I don't understand him, but he can understand me somehow, or at least I think he does. I have tried to evoke anger in him before, but the dude is seriously incapable of even cursing. We are polar opposites, and our friendship has always been comical for the most part, basically a boring dude and an unhinged chick.

This EII guy did have a generally huge impact on my behavior, I say I am less aggressive on average, but still on guard. I sort of mellowed out because of him, as now I think twice before I act out and I started to cut out the people that cause me to become so easily aggravated with a good reason instead of isolating myself from everyone else. On top of that, he also taught me that violence isn't the best way to end a conflict. I still get into fights, but only with people who start it now. As for him, he started to take care of himself more often, and guess what? He even learned to say no to people more often. In the end, conflicting socionic types may not get along, or may. Just because some pseudo-science says your relation with an individual won't work, it's BS for the most part unless either or both of you are unstable. People will only get along is they put in the effort too, regardless of type.

[Beautiful sky]

My experience is different since I do have some issues due to having a traumatic childhood, but here are some of my stories/reflections.

Background:[ I met this guy during middle school, 7th grade. I saw him get jumped daily, which reminded my relationship dynamic I had with my mom, so I jumped the people who had basically harmed him. During middle school, that was when I was the most volitional. Just whenever I saw assholes I always liked to fight/humiliate them, I mean I needed something to take out all my pent up anger at, and no way I would want to hurt someone innocent. So then I started to try to be someone who justified things my own way, and it was mainly in a violent way. I ended up dumping the dude who stole the lunch in a trash can, my EII friend was scared and tried to get me to stop, even though I was the only reason no one tried to pick on him since that day we met. Though he did at least thank me for getting him to be more respected, and then he would help me study in return. We had a lot of interests, and I really attracted to his more tender and soft personality, so I asked him to be friends, and he went with it. Eventually I was sticking up for him, pushing anyone I believed would take advantage of him since then, but I'd get frustrated since he kept on forgiving those fucking parasites.]

Once I was just violently sexually assaulted, by an ex in the girls restroom. Also I couldn’t beat them as I was pinned down by her friends, and she was about to switch schools. Nor could I report as I would be outing myself to the school and my parents that I was formerly in a homosexual relationship, and since I am pretty private about such matters in person, online I’d say it if it was needed for context, but in reality if you know me I am very guarded, I generally expect that people will always have malicious intentions so I just assume its always malicious. So i just swallowed it like every other traumatic event in my life, after all the way I think is that “what the hell am I feeling, even still why is even your business.” And that day, I wasn’t in the best of mindset. So I had a friend, a guy, fat, let girls walk all over him. He was the type to be like “misandry is justifiable, its what men get from oppressing women” and more shit. Which as a friend, I wanted whats best for him, and he was one of the very few that I genuinely cared about as he was the one of the only people who turned out not to be snakes. So I got fed up, and it sort of make me just, its hard to describe, but I was just so angry I wasn’t in control of myself so I just took out all my turmoil on him as a lesson what happens to when you let others step on you. He didn’t even deserve it to be honest, and I hate myself for it, he forgave me knowing I tend to abandon broken relations since I just suck at making genuine friendships. So then him forgiving me made me break down, as someone that genuinely had helped me I was rejecting him as a whole since I started to feel like I was just a last opinion to cure his loneliness. He was stubborn and annoying, but looking back at it, I really do thank him so much for sticking around.

He was a reliable was just very kind…I felt like I ruined a friendship that I even forgot that I relied on for some stability, but he knew everything about my childhood and background since I was friends with him for so long. I always tried to help him get stronger and set better boundaries, as its just something he clearly lacks, and I see him as helpless especially since his mother hates men and is a radical misandrist. So I naturally just wanted to help people that seem helpless in a situation that they don’t deserve to be in, but I’m pretty terrible at the delivery. So he was patient and just told my dad that I had a mental break down in private without going into details, as I didn't want anyone knowing what happened to me. So my Dad would then try to get me to talk about my issues, but I still didn’t tell him about me getting Sexually assaulted. I don’t want to tell anyone in real life, as doing so makes me feel like I’m allowing myself to be a victim and I never was really shown a way to even handle personal emotions and judgement at a young age. So I just constantly feel as if I can’t be the victim its just my fault that I wasn’t able to prevent it of my fault for not getting back at them. So eventually I just sort of detached myself from allowing my traumatic experiences shape who I am, as it only makes me so unstable and just so violent as I felt like I didn't have any other outlet.

I had felt like a monster compared to him, and when he forgave me I always felt confused and scared by it. Then on top of that, he would just try and "fix" me, and tried to be my best friend(now he is, or someone I'd consider the only friend I feel a intense emotional connection with). It's strange having one friend you know that will always be there for you. I was pretty harsh towards him in the past, and may have made him cry, but it was my way of trying to show I care for him as I wanted him to improve himself. Eventually he started to work out alongside me and while he sucked, eventually he did become more healthy. Also, I have to point out that he was sort of lazy at times of stress, which I usually would work my ass off when I'm stressed, so we can get into mild arguments but he shuts me up with offering me food. Our friendship is chaotic(because of me), but he has really helped me who I really was and to learn to trust others more often, other than being less offensive. I mean I constantly make offensive jokes, even ones about myself, and he just stares at me in disappointment telling me when I've gone too far(which I rely on). However, I do always find a way to make him laugh or feel better, just in spontaneous random ways.

I scared him at first, but as he learned more about me and my past, he didn't react too much and sort of found a way to calm me down eventually. Though there are traits about him that I tried to weed out myself, like him not taking action or just not being as productive as me when under pressure, trying to please people or not trying to offend anyone. I respect him for sticking to what he thinks is right, and care for him, but I don't understand him, but he can understand me somehow, or at least I think he does. I have tried to evoke anger in him before, but the dude is seriously incapable of even cursing. We are polar opposites, and our friendship has always been comical for the most part, basically a boring dude and an unhinged chick.

This EII guy did have a generally huge impact on my behavior, I say I am less aggressive on average, but still on guard. I sort of mellowed out because of him, as now I think twice before I act out and I started to cut out the people that cause me to become so easily aggravated with a good reason instead of isolating myself from everyone else. On top of that, he also taught me that violence isn't the best way to end a conflict. I still get into fights, but only with people who start it now. As for him, he started to take care of himself more often, and guess what? He even learned to say no to people more often. In the end, conflicting socionic types may not get along, or may. Just because some pseudo-science says your relation with an individual won't work, it's BS for the most part unless either or both of you are unstable. People will only get along is they put in the effort too, regardless of type.

.

“. Which as a friend, I wanted whats best for him, and he was one of the very few that I genuinely cared about as he was the one of the only people who turned out not to be snakes”

This:

Shtirlits sometimes exacerbates relations himself and sufficiently quickly acquires a number of enemies. Therefore, the ethical program of his EII dual has a rescuing and preserving effect for LSE's own "problematic" ethical program, since it orients Shtirlits towards mutual amiability and understanding, mercy, grace. Dostoyevsky teaches Shtirlits to be magnanimous, to know how to forgive, he "softens"

[Muira]

That's interesting. I usually try my best to at least get along with everyone, or at least try to have some common ground. Usually I tend to reevaluate myself and try to understand why someone else would have a different mindset than me. Though he was the one person I had the most difficulties understanding, so I eventually started to sort of see what he went through on a daily bases and why he had a more passive mindset compared to me.

I must agree that he did soften me, but I'm still pretty guarded and skeptical of people's intentions.

[Muira]

.

“. Which as a friend, I wanted whats best for him, and he was one of the very few that I genuinely cared about as he was the one of the only people who turned out not to be snakes”

This:

Shtirlits sometimes exacerbates relations himself and sufficiently quickly acquires a number of enemies. Therefore, the ethical program of his EII dual has a rescuing and preserving effect for LSE's own "problematic" ethical program, since it orients Shtirlits towards mutual amiability and understanding, mercy, grace. Dostoyevsky teaches Shtirlits to be magnanimous, to know how to forgive, he "softens"

For question, would this make him my duel or conflict?

[Beautiful sky]

For question, would this make him my duel or conflict?

Could be either

[Muira]

Could be either

The fact it could be either already tells me my function stack is all over the place.

[Beautiful sky]

I’m not boring
What do you mean by boring?
I do yoga, calisthenics, I read, hike, I watch cooking videos, I swim in the summer, I eat out at different restaurants and I sometimes travel although not terribly much. I don’t talk much but I can come up with a tone of ideas
How am I boring?
Better yet why do I take such offense to this?

[loopyclouds]

I'm definitely boring and it's a major, major insecurity of mine, especially after learning about Socionics which made me even more self-conscious of it. Whenever I join a conversation I can literally feel the conversation drying up before my eyes.. oops It doesn't help that my interests are not really things that are able to sustain a conversation.

[necrosebud]

I don’t really want to get close to them (it feels like it might be impossible for me to get close to an Fi PoLR type anyway). I have noticed Fi PoLR types can react strongly to normal Fi use, as I’m sure is true for me to Se. My dad, who is Fe PoLR, is a good example - he amplifies any perceived “tone” that people have or sometimes might not even have, after which he becomes indignant (E1). So neutral stuff can elicit a strong reaction with PoLR after which the other person now truly can become “negative” (when you’re dealing with conflictors). Se seems to give me nightmares anyway and I just don’t see the point in all this. I don't want to upset/"hurt" or stress anybody out because of my primary function either, which is partly why I maintain some psychological distance from my supervisees.

[Beautiful sky]

I don’t get it
The SLE I’ve met were nice guys albeit somewhat codependent and sometimes jealous

[Metanoia]

Can't really judge though. I felt off put by their comments too, it's just something I ignore and roll my eyes at. They're the types of bitches you have to give the cold shoulder to

[Metanoia]

Yeah the most common experience I noticed with SLE-EII relationship is that the EII tends be offended, or feel off put by the SLE's joking comments. They take it personally even if it's just them picking/playing. Insecurity is not type related, but both of these alone can be a recipe of disaster if they're both insecure and project onto each other. An EII tries to avoid confrontation and conflict - even if that conflict will air out grievances and give every party closure to move on. SLE seems to thrive on it almost to the point they purposely pick at the EII - they don't take them seriously at all and don't know where they really stand with them since the EII will quietly deal with their feelings till they can't any longer then it's too late.

[loopyclouds]

Haven't really had any problems with SLE (albeit I haven't been in close psychological distance to them), except that they're a bit too flirtatious for me. I feel uncomfortable/flustered interacting with them sometimes.

[Lord Pixel]

She's 1000 percent SLE after reading that. It actually hurt me to read lol poor EII guy, lowkey was conflicted reading the story because she sounded like she was an asshole to him but I'm glad it worked out. Sounded very SLE/EII type 9.

But yes I don't like SLE looking down at me because I don't work my ass off 24/7 leave me alone and let me relax in peace, life is already stressful enough I don't need my stress underlined by the critics on top of the stress.

I've met cool SLEs more recently and more butthole SLEs when I was younger. I went on a date with an SLE and she sounded pretty wreckless and that was the red flag deciding factor for me, ran away from home just cuz, called her mom stupid (even though she made similar decisions as her mom), wanted unemployable tats, "preparing" me for her daddy issues, all kinds of mess she sounded like and I could just feel the incompatibility as thick as ice between us, too impulsive, couldn't trust her. I also had an SLE friend in highschool who was a major dick, I was only friends with him because he was a bully and my strategy was to be on his side so he wouldn't come around to bullying me, I stopped being friends with him after following him got me arrested. I used to think SLE was the devil lol.

Met a cool SLE in college, both of us are computer artists and love to chop it up about new art software programs and now AI art, but the times we tried to collab on a project did not work, we in some weird way have complimentary strengths, he's resourceful knows how to use software and tools off the internet to cut work time in half, I'm imaginative can come up with interesting ideas for projects to work on and create compelling visuals, but the way we work ended up getting in each other's way, and a good portion of it came down to type relations.

Met cool SLEs at work, just cool sometimes cringe guys. Chill chad bro types. Only sometimes cringe because they could NOT admit defeat even when it's obvious lol. All this bravado can go overboard sometimes to the point where it's like "It's ok, relax, you lost, it's not the end of the world." Almost looks like a weakness to not admit one's weakness actually. Like is it gonna break you to admit you can lose in something? Maybe an insecurity, idk. Could use some self deprecation.

I'm good friends with an SLE now, and everything is smooth, but he's a huge Andrew Tate fan (of course) which I find cringe lol and he uses tons of absolute statements and hyperbole when he talks which just begs me to correct him lol. "This movie is the greatest movie of all time! No Movie is better! Name a better Movie!" and I'm like, bro... you don't even know every movie of all time to even make that kinda statement on top of the fact that there are tons of classic movies that are simply just better. He can never just say "I like this movie" no, it's gotta be "Objectively The BEST movie of ALL TIME.". Those big statements grind me gears for sure lol. But what I appreciate about him the most is that because of his Ti he is a very reasonable person, in disagreements or arguments he usually will explain himself in a way that just makes total sense and is very hard to argue against, I appreciate the reasoning instead of just trying to shut someone down and bulldoze them with an opinion, or have a louder voice.

[Muira]

She's 1000 percent SLE after reading that. It actually hurt me to read lol poor EII guy, lowkey was conflicted reading the story because she sounded like she was an asshole to him but I'm glad it worked out. Sounded very SLE/EII type 9.

I admit I was an asshole, but also I had genuine issues that I had to get professional help for. I have been through too much shit, which makes you more fucked up. I sorta blamed it all on weakness, I did hate myself so I did also project. Now we are really close, he always knows how I feel, and is pretty attentive. He did inhabit some of my traits, but the more reasonable ones. He has helped me develop into a better person, but I also taught him not to take shit from other people To be honest, I stuck around him because I sort of saw him as the 'knight' that saved me from myself, which did reflect our relationship. I'd push him away when I needed company the most, him still sticking around did mentally comfort me to know someone would always be there for me. But I didn't want to burden him, I didn't want him to be around someone like me, so I still pushed him away at times. I learned a huge lesson, you don't always have to be alone, and that most of my pain was self inflicted.

Now I am able to realize how right he was all along, but also he was able to realize why it's important to be stubborn at times. I do regret dissecting him and using hurtful language towards him, and I do own up to my own fallout. Plus, he lost weight and did take on a sport, he didn't have to rely on so much medication anymore. Just I don't know why he thinks golf is so cool

After I broke up with my old partner due to my lack of trust in other people and their suspicious behavior, I did go on dates with him. He did agree that the ex was probably doing something behind my back. At this point, I have no idea where we stand, I guess he does. At this point, we don't even argue at all, which should be the norm. We just look for common ground and tell each other how we see things. I hope he is interested in me in that he genuinely does like me, not just that I might be a last resort since I don't see other people approaching him with interest.

He does share a lot of the same relation/sexual morals as me, so I think we do have a good foundation for a potential relationship. We also agree on the same views on gender role dynamics. Though people say that conflicts shouldn't be dating, we have moved past that conflict phase.

I figured he was Type 9, probably 9w1-6w5-2w1. Probably INFJ in mbti.

Though it's funny to see his reaction when I use the most inappropriate analogies and jokes, he just rolls his eyes and says "really? what will I ever do with you?" Which amuses me ngl, I can't help but have a shit-eating grin plaster my face. Though he does laugh and smile at them, not like he is genuinely digested by them.

Sometimes I head-but his chest, but I do the same thing to my dad or anyone I am extremely close to. After that became normal, he would tickle me, which I hate, but love because I get to see him interact with me physically.

Though I hate the time when he decided to squeeze my knee caps, that was just pure torture at it's finest. That was the first time I screamed, seeing him laugh made me calm down though.

I went on a date with an SLE and she sounded pretty wreckless and that was the red flag deciding factor for me, ran away from home just cuz, called her mom stupid (even though she made similar decisions as her mom), wanted unemployable tats, "preparing" me for her daddy issues, all kinds of mess she sounded like and I could just feel the incompatibility as thick as ice between us, too impulsive, couldn't trust her.

Sure she is SLE? Pretty weird to see someone get so vulnerable so quickly. If I was you, I'd ghost her the moment she mentioned she had issues on a first date. She doesn't seem to realize that people date to find a partner that is competent, not for someone . She sounds like she has genuine issues, should have told her that. She sounds bi-polar to me

I also had an SLE friend in highschool who was a major dick, I was only friends with him because he was a bully and my strategy was to be on his side so he wouldn't come around to bullying me, I stopped being friends with him after following him got me arrested. I used to think SLE was the devil lol.

That was smart, he definitely has issues. People like that often have extremely abusive households. For example, I was similar, but I went after people who took advantage of others generally, just my method wasn't very justified. But also I was also raised in an abusive household and taken advantage of as a kid a lot of the time.
So really it's best to try to get those people to seek professional help or realize how incompetent they are being instead of calling them evil. Evil is a disease, and the vaccine is self-awareness and the will to break the cycle of abuse.
Sadly this world has become nothing but individuals partaking in the series of compounding sins, seeking to inflict pain onto each other just for revenge and status.
A SLE will only be likable as much as he/she is mature. Sometimes they only realize how badly they fuck up until it's too late.
However, we are not responsible for fixing others, so if people continue to inflict pain onto themselves, sometimes all we can do is just watch.

I'm good friends with an SLE now, and everything is smooth, but he's a huge Andrew Tate fan (of course) which I find cringe lol and he uses tons of absolute statements and hyperbole when he talks which just begs me to correct him lol.

Eh, Good thing you do correct him. That dude needs to realize that you shouldn't idealize anyone, I don't hate Tate, just he doesn't always give the best advice. But Tate converted into Islam, so I suspect Tate would have to make radical changes to his behavior.

"Objectively The BEST movie of ALL TIME."

He is just exaggerating, I do the same thing sometimes. But I do reverse some words for when I mean something. I'd say he is just blinded by excitement, so just go along somewhat.

[Lord Pixel]

.

What made you think he was EII instead of IEI?

[Muira]

What made you think he was EII instead of IEI?

He doesn't value se, he only uses it when convinced. Plus, he is the type of guy that will imagine every scenario for some reason, he only seems to want to be specific on what would likely happen under stress. While he doesn't really do much in a project, he gives a lot of helpful suggestions. He seems to be more orientated on bringing comfort to people in the group project than orientated on doing the work he doesn't like. Also, I would say he isn't very expressive, kind of cold but clingy sometimes.

These are not necessarily flaws, but just something that makes me think he is EII > IEI.

[Lord Pixel]

He doesn't value se, he only uses it when convinced. Plus, he is the type of guy that will imagine every scenario for some reason, he only seems to want to be specific on what would likely happen under stress. While he doesn't really do much in a project, he gives a lot of helpful suggestions. He seems to be more orientated on bringing comfort to people in the group project than orientated on doing the work he doesn't like. Also, I would say he isn't very expressive, kind of cold but clingy sometimes.

These are not necessarily flaws, but just something that makes me think he is EII > IEI.

Yea kinda sounds EII ngl.

[Finaplex]

Only sometimes cringe because they could NOT admit defeat even when it's obvious lol. All this bravado can go overboard sometimes to the point where it's like "It's ok, relax, you lost, it's not the end of the world." Almost looks like a weakness to not admit one's weakness actually. Like is it gonna break you to admit you can lose in something? Maybe an insecurity, idk. Could use some self deprecation.

Now imagine them doing this at 36-40-45 years old? Its like....wow.

I'm good friends with an SLE now, and everything is smooth, but he's a huge Andrew Tate fan (of course) which I find cringe lol and he uses tons of absolute statements and hyperbole when he talks which just begs me to correct him lol. "This movie is the greatest movie of all time! No Movie is better! Name a better Movie!" and I'm like, bro... you don't even know every movie of all time to even make that kinda statement on top of the fact that there are tons of classic movies that are simply just better. He can never just say "I like this movie" no, it's gotta be "Objectively The BEST movie of ALL TIME.". Those big statements grind me gears for sure lol. But what I appreciate about him the most is that because of his Ti he is a very reasonable person, in disagreements or arguments he usually will explain himself in a way that just makes total sense and is very hard to argue against, I appreciate the reasoning instead of just trying to shut someone down and bulldoze them with an opinion, or have a louder voice.

I see you have met SLEs hyperbole. The Se types are more insular though.

[anotherperson]

i had a friend who was EII but i dont talk to them now. they were nice but they kept not using Se til the last second and i felt slightly uneasy around them, i didnt know when id trigger their Fi. it caused me some level of stress, especially since we didnt have many common interests. I wonder if they thought the same about me but because of Fi, (and no Se) just let it go.

[Muira]

i had a friend who was EII but i dont talk to them now. they were nice but they kept not using Se til the last second and i felt slightly uneasy around them, i didnt know when id trigger their Fi. it caused me some level of stress, especially since we didnt have many common interests. I wonder if they thought the same about me but because of Fi, (and no Se) just let it go.

Indeed, it is pretty hard to navigate such relationships. Usually I just ask directly and constantly, and inform the person that I am not the best at reading between the lines. People only get along as much as their efforts to thoroughly communicate clearly with one another and establish a contract of truth and agreed upon boundaries.

[anotherperson]

Indeed, it is pretty hard to navigate such relationships. Usually I just ask directly and constantly, and inform the person that I am not the best at reading between the lines. People only get along as much as their efforts to thoroughly communicate clearly with one another and establish a contract of truth and agreed upon boundaries.

i did find it interesting that we didnt mutually agree to part ways. i just sort of cut them off with a vague and cryptic explanation. i guess the Ni told me something was gonna happen. makes me wonder if some conflictor relationships are more one sided

[Muira]

i did find it interesting that we didnt mutually agree to part ways. i just sort of cut them off with a vague and cryptic explanation. i guess the Ni told me something was gonna happen. makes me wonder if some conflictor relationships are more one sided

I can imagine when one person caters to their conflict, where they act as if they are their quasi identical, which puts strain on that person, and builds resentment towards their conflictor, thus ghosting them for the sake of preservation of one's mental health.

I think he would have been a bit lost, perhaps thinking fondly of you while you felt strained by that individual hearing from how you tapped into your more vulnerable functions to avoid conflict. Likely you put all the strain of the relationship on yourself I presume.