changing roles in relations

[FDG]

I do that as well. You way of typing is the most off-base of the world.

[Dioklecian]

I know other ISFPs and they have a tendency to make people crazy on puspose.

I don't do it on purpose.

It sounds to me like you have a very negative idea of what an ISFp is, and anyone you know who is unhealthy in a similar way to your mother you type as ISFp.

Do you know any healthy ISFps? Are there any that you like, or at least get along with?

Mother TEresa

[Dioklecian]

I do that as well. You way of typing is the most off-base of the world.

Could be, but its' my logic, I can't describe with words everything :wink:

[Dioklecian]

I do that as well. You way of typing is the most off-base of the world.

Are you sure? Most ENTJs that I know breath fire when they are threatened.

[FDG]

I do that as well. You way of typing is the most off-base of the world.

Are you sure? Most ENTJs that I know breath fire when they are threatened.

Uhh...you said when reality is "too harsh".

I do that when I feel like no matter what I do, there is no exit.

You're correct, when people threathen me I react very stongly.

[Dioklecian]

I do that as well. You way of typing is the most off-base of the world.

Are you sure? Most ENTJs that I know breath fire when they are threatened.

Uhh...you said when reality is "too harsh".

I do that when I feel like no matter what I do, there is no exit.

You're correct, when people threathen me I react very stongly.

I see what you mean, it makes a lot of sense.

What sort of values does your ISFJ mom advocate for you?

[FDG]

I do that as well. You way of typing is the most off-base of the world.

Are you sure? Most ENTJs that I know breath fire when they are threatened.

Uhh...you said when reality is "too harsh".

I do that when I feel like no matter what I do, there is no exit.

You're correct, when people threathen me I react very stongly.

I see what you mean, it makes a lot of sense.

What sort of values does your ISFJ mom advocate for you?

She never preached morals to me. I guess I just respected them without her openly stating them?

[Joy]

Yes, this type of thing depends on the individuals involved and to some degree on the inter type relationship.

[Dioklecian]

What sort of values does your ISFJ mom advocate for you?

She never preached morals to me. I guess I just respected them without her openly stating them?

What morals and values would you say she practices?

[Joy]

Specific morals and values will differ per individual. An ISFj raised in another culture will have different values. ISFjs are generally concerned with what they percieve to be their society's ethical norms (or perhaps what they learned growing up if it doesn't match their current surroundings). ISFjs are all about "should's" and "supposed to's". ISFps are not.

[Dioklecian]

ISFjs are all about "should's" and "supposed to's". ISFps are not.

ISFPs are imoral, they don't really respect ethics if they can get way with it.

[Joy]

No.

[Joy]

From the thread about which philosopher you are like...

lol I thought Plato would be higher on my list. Eh well. There were a lot of questions that I didn't really care about. My personal philosophy has little if nothing to do with morality. It's all about possibilities and taking responsibility for your life and understanding that there is no such thing as a human knowing what the "truth" is or what reality is because humans are not omniscient. People ought to stop being so proud and trying to inflict their own morals and logic on others and just do what they want to do. (And I say that everyone should do what the want to do in a large scale manner. It's about what they do with their lives.) People ought to understand that the only thing in life that they can control (or ever need to control) is their own decisions and stop trying to control the decisions of others.

OMG Joy, this has to be the most IxFp thing ever said (you sound all too like my mother, btw.) I love being the antithesis to your every closely-held value. Super-ego relations at work, I say. No offense, though. <3

[Dioklecian]

From the thread about which philosopher you are like...

lol I thought Plato would be higher on my list. Eh well. There were a lot of questions that I didn't really care about. My personal philosophy has little if nothing to do with morality. It's all about possibilities and taking responsibility for your life and understanding that there is no such thing as a human knowing what the "truth" is or what reality is because humans are not omniscient. People ought to stop being so proud and trying to inflict their own morals and logic on others and just do what they want to do. (And I say that everyone should do what the want to do in a large scale manner. It's about what they do with their lives.) People ought to understand that the only thing in life that they can control (or ever need to control) is their own decisions and stop trying to control the decisions of others.

OMG Joy, this has to be the most IxFp thing ever said (you sound all too like my mother, btw.) I love being the antithesis to your every closely-held value. Super-ego relations at work, I say. No offense, though. <3

Plato is INTJ,

[Joy]

Irrelevant. The purpose of that post was to demonstrate how the attitudes of an ISFp differ from that of an ISFj.

[Dioklecian]

Irrelevant. The purpose of that post was to demonstrate how the attitudes of an ISFp differ from that of an ISFj.

My mother does not inflict a moral set of values instead she places obligations. Which are worse, much worse, because they are fully checked by society. She also ignores moral standarts (but respects leagal ones).

[Joy]

My mother does not inflict a moral set of values instead she places obligations.

The obligations are a direct result of the morals.

[FDG]

What sort of values does your ISFJ mom advocate for you?

She never preached morals to me. I guess I just respected them without her openly stating them?

What morals and values would you say she practices?

I don't know, I'm too used to it, I don't even notice. I actually used to take for granted that all girls had to behave morally.

[Dioklecian]

My mother does not inflict a moral set of values instead she places obligations.

The obligations are a direct result of the morals.

Not for ISFPs they make up obligations

[Elizabeth]

My mother does not inflict a moral set of values instead she places obligations.

The obligations are a direct result of the morals.

Not for ISFPs they make up obligations

That doesn't sound like an ISFp. I can't stand to place obligations on people or burden them with things. I just don't do it unless I'm desperate and/or very very stressed.

The way you described your mom, I can't imagine her being an ISFp. If she is, she's an unhealthy one as Joy said.

[FDG]

My mother does not inflict a moral set of values instead she places obligations.

The obligations are a direct result of the morals.

Not for ISFPs they make up obligations

Your mother has borderline personality disorder, which has nothing to do with type.

[Joy]

Agreed. Regardless of the BPD symptoms, however, she still doesn't sound ISFp. I've never heard of an ISFp that doesn't like to act goofy/silly at least some of the time.

[Dioklecian]

My mother does not inflict a moral set of values instead she places obligations.

The obligations are a direct result of the morals.

Not for ISFPs they make up obligations

That doesn't sound like an ISFp. I can't stand to place obligations on people or burden them with things. I just don't do it unless I'm desperate and/or very very stressed.

The way you described your mom, I can't imagine her being an ISFp. If she is, she's an unhealthy one as Joy said.

Actually she is TOO good unfortunately

[Dioklecian]

My mother does not inflict a moral set of values instead she places obligations.

The obligations are a direct result of the morals.

Not for ISFPs they make up obligations

Your mother has borderline personality disorder, which has nothing to do with type.

Not at all, BPD is an ESFP thing, she has codependency issues

[Dioklecian]

What sort of values does your ISFJ mom advocate for you?

She never preached morals to me. I guess I just respected them without her openly stating them?

What morals and values would you say she practices?

I don't know, I'm too used to it, I don't even notice. I actually used to take for granted that all girls had to behave morally.

I wish

[Dioklecian]

Agreed. Regardless of the BPD symptoms, however, she still doesn't sound ISFp. I've never heard of an ISFp that doesn't like to act goofy/silly at least some of the time.

Sure she does but she doesn't want you to call her on that. Praise as I said is the key word. Do you like praise Joy? Or do you like pleasure more?

[Dioklecian]

Irrelevant. The purpose of that post was to demonstrate how the attitudes of an ISFp differ from that of an ISFj.

I would say that ISFJ are much more keen on individual freedom (of a kind)

[Joy]

Not at all, BPD is an ESFP thing, she has codependency issues

NO. Any type can be borderline. BPD is characterized in part by dependency/codependency issues.

[Joy]

Agreed. Regardless of the BPD symptoms, however, she still doesn't sound ISFp. I've never heard of an ISFp that doesn't like to act goofy/silly at least some of the time.

Sure she does but she doesn't want you to call her on that. Praise as I said is the key word. Do you like praise Joy? Or do you like pleasure more?

Praise from who about what? What kind of pleasure?

Irrelevant. The purpose of that post was to demonstrate how the attitudes of an ISFp differ from that of an ISFj.

I would say that ISFJ are much more keen on individual freedom (of a kind)

Where are you getting this information?

[Dioklecian]

Agreed. Regardless of the BPD symptoms, however, she still doesn't sound ISFp. I've never heard of an ISFp that doesn't like to act goofy/silly at least some of the time.

Sure she does but she doesn't want you to call her on that. Praise as I said is the key word. Do you like praise Joy? Or do you like pleasure more?

Praise from who about what? What kind of pleasure?

Any kind of praise, any kind of pleasure.

Irrelevant. The purpose of that post was to demonstrate how the attitudes of an ISFp differ from that of an ISFj.

I would say that ISFJ are much more keen on individual freedom (of a kind)

Where are you getting this information? [/quote]

Olga, I asked what moral values she would instill in me if I were her son, she said be yourself. She doesn't conpletely mean it, but I know what she has in mind (my grama was ISFJ).

[Joy]

Okay this is the bottom line. Your mom is very unhealthy. You don't want to admit it because you love her and you would rather blame her problems on a "type", something that's not er fault. The problem is not her type, regardless of what that type is. The problem is her low sense of self-worth. She is controlling and emotionally manipulative and codependent because she fears that if she is not, the people who are important to her won't love her and will leave. THAT is why she needs to be needed.

When ISFps have a low sense of self-worth, they are more likely to hurt themselves than they are to hurt others, IMO. I know an ISFp who cuts herself, tries to kill herself, gets in and stays in relationships with controlling/abusive men (I think she likes comforting emotionally needy men, and it backfires on her because she chooses the WRONG guys), and almost never stands up for herself. She's also and substance abuse issues and issues with food. So pretty much... she doesn't attack others... she attacks herself.

On the praise and pleasure thing, many types of praise make me uncomfortable. If it's someone I know and feel very comfortable with, I like most compliments, but don't feel that they are necessary most of the time (except my partner... but it's not exactly a compliment, it's more like expressing appreciation). If someone who I don't feel totally comfortable with wants to compliment me, I am flattered if it is one of the following things:

-interesting
-clever and
-smart
-intelligent
-knowledgable
-amusing
-fun
-funny
-easy to talk to

I do my best to politely accept compliments about my appearance but secretly think less of the the person who gave me that compliment.

I <3 pleasure. Sex, drugs, alcohol, great food, relaxation, massages, etc.

[Gilly]

How is "interesting" ?

[Dioklecian]

Ok

I do my best to politely accept compliments about my appearance but secretly think less of the the person who gave me that compliment.

tc.

Why is that?

[Dioklecian]

Okay this is the bottom line. Your mom is very unhealthy. You don't want to admit it because you love her and you would rather blame her problems on a "type", something that's not er fault. The problem is not her type, regardless of what that type is. The problem is her low sense of self-worth. She is controlling and emotionally manipulative and codependent because she fears that if she is not, the people who are important to her won't love her and will leave. THAT is why she needs to be needed.

When ISFps have a low sense of self-worth, they are more likely to hurt themselves than they are to hurt others, IMO. I know an ISFp who cuts herself, tries to kill herself, gets in and stays in relationships with controlling/abusive men (I think she likes comforting emotionally needy men, and it backfires on her because she chooses the WRONG guys), and almost never stands up for herself. She's also and substance abuse issues and issues with food. So pretty much... she doesn't attack others... she attacks herself.

On the praise and pleasure thing, many types of praise make me uncomfortable. If it's someone I know and feel very comfortable with, I like most compliments, but don't feel that they are necessary most of the time (except my partner... but it's not exactly a compliment, it's more like expressing appreciation). If someone who I don't feel totally comfortable with wants to compliment me, I am flattered if it is one of the following things:

-interesting
-clever and
-smart
-intelligent
-knowledgable
-amusing
-fun
-funny
-easy to talk to

I do my best to politely accept compliments about my appearance but secretly think less of the the person who gave me that compliment.

I <3 pleasure. Sex, drugs, alcohol, great food, relaxation, massages, etc.

Joy remeber my pms ok? I think that you might be the one making the mistake here :wink:

[Joy]

How is "interesting" ?

because it's all about possibilities. <3

I do my best to politely accept compliments about my appearance but secretly think less of the the person who gave me that compliment.

Why is that?

Because I hate being judged for my appearance. In all honesty, it's a self-worth issue. I feel threatened when others appreciate my outward appearance because to me it threatens my intellectual/mental worth and other abilities unrelated to my face or body. If my outward appearance is my most valuable trait, I'm really not worth much of anything.

[Joy]

I think that you might be the one making the mistake here :wink:

A mistake about what? I answered your questions honestly.

[Dioklecian]

How is "interesting" ?

because it's all about possibilities. <3

I do my best to politely accept compliments about my appearance but secretly think less of the the person who gave me that compliment.

Why is that?

Because I hate being judged for my appearance. In all honesty, it's a self-worth issue. I feel threatened when others appreciate my outward appearance because to me it threatens my intellectual/mental worth and other abilities unrelated to my face or body. If my outward appearance is my most valuable trait, I'm really not worth much of anything.

Do you mind if they say that someone else is more sexy than you?

[Dioklecian]

I think that you might be the one making the mistake here :wink:

A mistake about what? I answered your questions honestly.

I mean regarding typing.

[Joy]

Typing who? The ISFp I know? No... I am certain of her type.

[Dioklecian]

Typing who? The ISFp I know? No... I am certain of her type.

Typing yourself I mean, go get a prefessional test done.