In which ways is Duality better than Activity?

[jragonfly]

I know activity relations are supposed to be up there on the list of satisfactory relationships (maybe 2nd or 3rd right?). What I am wondering is, do you think it is worth pursuing while already knowing that duality is superior?

Or to make it more personal: you met someone who is an activation relation and you hit it off really quickly, and you have A LOT in common, including long-term goals. This other person also has a lot of good qualities that sound good in a long term relationship- smart, stable, loving, mature and responsible, etc. This person is clear that they are interested in marriage in the future and doesn't want to wait around. But having experienced duality you are aware there is a certain something lacking in the activity relation, and that it will never be on the same scale as duality. Would you still try to foster a romantic relationship anyway? Or tell them you don't think it will worth out in the long run?

I know activity relations are good for friendships, I've had a few of them as best friends. I'm just not sure of them on the romantic front. Does anyone have successful stories of activation? Are some of you dead set on only dating your dual?

[Trevor]

A duality is always better than AN activity. A duality doesn't have to be better than THE activity.

Now you know.

[MatthewZ]

I wouldn't reject someone on the basis of some unproven personality hypothesis. However, I might reject someone on the basis of relationship dissatisfaction that may have been predicted by the hypothesis.

The limited number of surveys on types of married couples indicate that duality, while representing more than 1/16 of the intertype relationships of couples, only accounts for 30%-50% of marriages. Surely there's something positive and fulfilling that can be found in non-duality relations.

[Blaze]

I wouldn't reject someone on the basis of some unproven personality hypothesis. However, I might reject someone on the basis of relationship dissatisfaction that may have been predicted by the hypothesis.

The limited number of surveys on types of married couples indicate that duality, while representing more than 1/16 of the intertype relationships of couples, only accounts for 30%-50% of marriages. Surely there's something positive and fulfilling that can be found in non-duality relations.

i am hoping you are right.

activity is a good one....but the difference in rationality is what starts to erode the relation on too close a distance. but overall, one of the best relations!

[krieger]

My experience with these has been relatively bad; the difference in temperament makes the interaction lack in smoothness. There isn't a strong incentive to keep the conversation going. I like ISFps a lot but the difference in compatibility with me between them and ESFjs is not just some marginalized detail.

[carrina]

I wouldn't reject someone on the basis of some unproven personality hypothesis. However, I might reject someone on the basis of relationship dissatisfaction that may have been predicted by the hypothesis.

The limited number of surveys on types of married couples indicate that duality, while representing more than 1/16 of the intertype relationships of couples, only accounts for 30%-50% of marriages. Surely there's something positive and fulfilling that can be found in non-duality relations.

Although I agree with your conclusion, I disagree that the basis on which you came to that conclusion is realistic.
I've seen plenty of people say dual marriages represent 50% of marriages. I have seen this purported, but I've never seen this study. I'm not about to take anyone's word for it because I find this highly unlikely.
Alternately, if that were true, look at the divorce rate. In america it is somewhere around 50%. no one talks about that.

[Creepy-male]

Are some of you dead set on only dating your dual?

Yes. After having become intimately involved with one, definitely yes. Nothing else will really cut the mustard.

[shakealittle]

If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?

I find myself criticising my dual more than my activity partner....and I find some traits of the EIE that I'd prefer to not have in a partner. Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality. I also like my activity partners because we are both introverts. I have been with a dual before and one of my friends is my dual too and yeah it's comfortable, you can be with them all the time and not get bored and miss them while they're gone etc etc. But maybe it's because they are EIEs, but I just can't tolerate their drama all the time that seems to come from absolutely no where and their need to be loved by everyone which means you are less of a priority and that becomes an issue in relationships....for me anyways.

I guess activity feels more like you are separate entities who enjoy one another unlike duals who are more co-dependant.

[07490]

If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?
Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality.

I guess activity feels more like you are separate entities who enjoy one another unlike duals who are more co-dependant.

Oh, I guess that is why dual with 3rd function matching 7th function, they are more co-dependent, hence the relationship is easier.

But that 3rd function to your 8th function, to me that cause a lot of problem. I mean we all need our 7th function privately where we use it a lot. and activities gives too much polr "hits" because activity partner's polr is their 7th function.

[shakealittle]

and activities gives too much polr "hits" because activity partner's polr is their 7th function.

Your dual would be using more of your 4th function than your activator. So you would get more polr hits from your dual than your activator, in my experience anyway. Your activator at least keeps an eye on your 3rd function unlike your dual which ignores that function and I would think we are more concerned with our 3rd than our 4th. I would get way more Fi assurance from an IEI than an EIE.

[07490]

Your dual would be using more of your 4th function than your activator. So you would get more polr hits from your dual than your activator, in my experience anyway. Your activator at least keeps an eye on your 3rd function unlike your dual which ignores that function and I would think we are more concerned with our 3rd than our 4th. I would get way more Fi assurance from an IEI than an EIE.

Nah, I don't think so, Activity partners see weakness in others that they can improve on, always giving each other advice and at the same time hurting each others weak point. In healthy duality relationship, these criticism is made very lightly, in a way more accepting than if activity ever give advice on each others weak point.

[Creepy-male]

If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?

I find myself criticising my dual more than my activity partner....and I find some traits of the EIE that I'd prefer to not have in a partner.

"The EIE" or "EIEs I've encountered"?

Duals are still people. Some people will manifest things you just plain don't like, or create points of incompatibility despite how forgiving you want to be, or how laissez-faire your approach to "disappointments" is. Also, descriptions of types are very bad at describing people. They're best as guidelines for spotting others, not exhaustive and precise details of traits and foibles of a given type.

But to answer your question, here's another one: if you have neither an activity partner nor a dual, why not pursue a dual?

Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality.

Nono, Role/Ignoring complementarity is beautiful. Your Dual encourages you to relax and be yourself and not worry about all the social crap/personal anxieties stacked on top of your Role function.

But maybe it's because they are EIEs, but I just can't tolerate their drama all the time that seems to come from absolutely no where

Do they respond badly to you reacting to the drama? All relationships experience friction, increasingly so in direct proportion to intimacy. Duals sort it out, even despite momentary (or even more protracted periods!) ill sentiments.

Also, don't you Betas like intensity in your relationships? Maybe your EIE used to just start shit to get a reaction out of you?

their need to be loved by everyone which means you are less of a priority and that becomes an issue in relationships....for me anyways.

Sounds more like instinct clash than anything Socionics can account for. (Hint: I already know to avoid so-firsts. I'd die with their stupid need to be off socialising or whatever it is that they do with all those random people.)

[shakealittle]

"The EIE" or "EIEs I've encountered"?

Duals are still people. Some people will manifest things you just plain don't like, or create points of incompatibility despite how forgiving you want to be, or how laissez-faire your approach to "disappointments" is. Also, descriptions of types are very bad at describing people. They're best as guidelines for spotting others, not exhaustive and precise details of traits and foibles of a given type.

Yes, exactly which is why I'm saying that duality is not everything and is why I'm encouraging to not just aim for duality when they have other chances at potentially good relationships.

Following this theory of course it would make sense that duals are better for one another on paper. I'm saying reality can be different, I have got on famously with one female EIE and SO SO incredibly badly with one EIE.

[Creepy-male]

Ok, let's say I have two cakes. One is super-tasty delicious and looks even better than it tastes. The other is a pretty ok cake. Cake #1 takes a while to procure the ingredients and bake, and it can wind up not tasting super-fantastic crazy awesome because the cooking process is complex. The other is basically straightforward. So let's actually say cake #2 is like self-bake bread. Nourishing but nothing spectacularly delicious.

You're advocating to go with the bread over the cake, because the cake can go wrong and takes a while, even despite the fact that it is entirely superior in every conceivable way.

EDIT

And so I say you're a lunatic. Then again, I should theoretically have an easy time of finding my dual, since I have a) a dating site that's pretty much advertised as being for geeky Alphas b) experience with a dual c) many platonic dual friendships giving me a wide sample of what my duals look like and d) I'll be doing a degree in holy shit NT territory. Just gotta avoid the Gamma landmines, which might be a bit complicated.

[redbaron]

I already know to avoid so-firsts. I'd die with their stupid need to be off socialising or whatever it is that they do with all those random people.)

quotable!

[thePirate]

Read On:

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...5_JwtKRkR031vg

Is it?

What exactly does the author mean?

Comment.

[Blaze]

duals, semi duals, and illusionaries kinda correct each other. in a way you think the other person is kinda fucked up....yet you love and appreciate them. these relationships are on a corrective course.

with activity, you basically don't see anything wrong with them, they really can do no wrong. i def feel this way about any esfj i've been close to. so maybe what she is saying is that because of this, there is more support and loyalty between activity partners, whereas duals tend to see where the other person is flawed.

[Suz]

duals, semi duals, and illusionaries kinda correct each other. in a way you think the other person is kinda fucked up....yet you love and appreciate them. these relationships are on a corrective course.

with activity, you basically don't see anything wrong with them, they really can do no wrong. i def feel this way about any esfj i've been close to. so maybe what she is saying is that because of this, there is more support and loyalty between activity partners, whereas duals tend to see where the other person is flawed.

Really? cause i thought that was supposed to be the case with duality. . .that duals dont see each other's flaws as flaws really.

[Blaze]

Really? cause i thought that was supposed to be the case with duality. . .that duals dont see each other's flaws as flaws really.

yeah theoretically duals are supposed to overlook your flaws and i think they do. but i was thinking more about real relations not the theory and i came back to it again and again....with esfj, i really don't see anything wrong with them. my my dual, semi dual or illusionary, i kinda do see stuff that's wrong and want to help them correct those problems. i see it coming at me as well from duals, semi duals, and illusionaries. it's the thing that energizes the relationship, this love hate, push-pull ultimately forgiving passionate relationship. hmmmmmm.

[Creepy-male]

The idea behind Duality is that you see things, you just don't pass judgement on them being negative or outright bad things when it's your Dual. Activity just gives you this sense of discreteness and normalness.

[Beautiful sky]

yes, activity relations are very strong, and easy to begin because, in my case, ISTp's don't have the same hang ups that ESTj's have, which is waiting a long time to be sure about the person before they pursue the relationship, so these relations start fast and with ease.

[mu4]

I'm not sure more loyal but activity relationships are a lot easier to start and maintain, especially friendships.

I can't easily start relationships with the SEI's I know because of all sort of fidelity issues and jealousies and intimacy start crossing our heads and eyes as we talk, and it's like everyone is looking at me and I get shy.

With my dual it's more like a moral imperative to get as close as possible.

[Ave]

you dont have to think of reasons why an IEE-LSE relationship would work well. Activity is a GREAT relationship, much easier to start than duality, and a very attractive and nice dynamic. I know that when i'm with an LSE (even platonically) we find each other so interesting that we talk and talk and talk. I am very fond of them and there are some LSEs i would most certainly consider dating. Sometimes i wonder whether i should bother with duality at all, as my activity partners are so awesome! My point is that duality isn't the ONLY successful intertype for relationships. In fact, duality IME so far has been somewhat unattainable.

This post inspired me to make this thread, since I've been wanting to make it for a while now; I was talking with a certain INFp on this forum in private and he told me he preffered LSIs to SLEs. I personally like SLEs better than LSIs. Note that this isnt a discussion so much on theoritical compatabilty; duality is theoritically the best relaion, regardless of like or dislike. Thats not the point. Im wondering which one you guys like better, and possibly why(share experiences).

[DirectorAbbie]

I wouldn't want an IEE. They talk too much and are wishy-washy. They also take offense easily and would be difficult to live with.

[Trevor]

I wouldn't want an IEE. They talk too much and are wishy-washy. They also take offense easily and would be difficult to live with.

your dad

[Galen]

I can imagine both relationships on paper working out swimmingly. There have been several ESTjs out there who I've had greater interest in getting to know than a handful of ISTps I can recall. It all depends on the individual's emotional/mental health though, as a psychotic or misanthropic dual will obviously warrant much less positive interest than a happy activator.

[Pa3s]

I can imagine both relationships on paper working out swimmingly.

Same for me, I remember one EII I had a very good connection with, even though we didn't know each other that well. But our ways led us in different directions and we lost contact. I guess the activity relationship is easier to start and sustain. (At least I'd expect that if my partner was introverted.) But duality might "offer" more in a way of experiences and insights.

It all depends on the individual's emotional/mental health though, as a psychotic or misanthropic dual will obviously warrant much less positive interest than a happy activator.

That too.

[mu4]

I think as far as compatibility

Socionics > instinct stacking > enneagram

Socionics is the most refined form of compatibility, that of communication

Instinct stacking has a lot of relation to lifestyle choices and areas of comfort, so it would lead to some variants to be apart a lot of the time and other to be together more, could be good and bad.

Enneagram says not much about compatibility.

[willekeurig]

I've had great experiences with both, but so far I've met more inspiring SLIs than LSEs.
My preferences in music, movies, hobbies, politics and lifestyle in general are somewhat undergroud, and most LSEs I know are very "mainstream" people. They wear whatever the local H&M sells, listen to whatever's on the radio, watch stupid reality TV shows and, worst of all, show absolutely no interest and/or skill in analytical/philosophical discussions. I also often feel ashamed about their sense of humour.. My Te-LSE granpa may be to blame for this; he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard. Even at the age of 6 I was constantly facepalming in his company. No discretion whatsoever. SLIs, on the other hand, are more wary and know when to shut their mouths. I've considered I might actually be IEE because of this, but IJ temperament and Se polr make much much more sense than EP & Ti-polr.
The communication with LSEs is of course really easy and I find the EJ temperament pleasant, but as individuals I too often feel we have not much to offer to each other..

[DirectorAbbie]

he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard.

That's not LSE-related. We like to be respected.

[Slacker]

I think both should work reasonably well. I have a good friend who is IEE and married to an LSE. Their only ongoing problem seems to be that she is a bit of a clutterbug and he likes everything to be very orderly. Oh, and she is much more laid back as far as discipline of children goes and he likes more discipline than that. But overall they seem to get along very well, and those kinds of differences can be type and temperament related, but can also be not related to socionics at all.

[willekeurig]

That's not LSE-related. We like to be respected.

Not all LSEs are like that, but (at least in my own experience) a fair number of them are, especially individuals with relatively low IQ. I think my granpa's behaviour often reflected the weak Fe&Ni. Here's a concrete example:

I was 14 years old when I had a confirmation party (a sort of maturation rite) and was playing Play Station with some friends in my room when my granpa suddenly came in. He spotted my mp3 player on the table and asked if it was a hearing aid and instantly started to bemoan my poor hearing. He completely ignored all objection and said things like "it is nothing to be ashamed of" and that my parents should take a better care of me, not let me listen to loud music etc. Knowing him I decided the best tactic was to agree, since I was in the middle of the PS game and my friends were all trying to hold their laughter. Unfortunately that didn't stop him, as he then decided to exhibit his own hearing aid and all its great features. He even promised to buy me a similar one, since it was the best model available or something. My friends thought this was all hilariously funny, but I only felt embarrassed and frustrated. Fortunately my mom (who used to work as an IT expert ) had heard the conversation and came to save me by asking my granpa to install something on her computer. He may sound like a dotty old man, but at that time he was still working, had his driver's licence etc..

OK I realise this is an extreme example, but similar things have happened with many LSEs I know.

[Beautiful sky]

I've had great experiences with both, but so far I've met more inspiring SLIs than LSEs.
My preferences in music, movies, hobbies, politics and lifestyle in general are somewhat undergroud, and most LSEs I know are very "mainstream" people. They wear whatever the local H&M sells, listen to whatever's on the radio, watch stupid reality TV shows and, worst of all, show absolutely no interest and/or skill in analytical/philosophical discussions. I also often feel ashamed about their sense of humour.. My Te-LSE granpa may be to blame for this; he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard. Even at the age of 6 I was constantly facepalming in his company. No discretion whatsoever. SLIs, on the other hand, are more wary and know when to shut their mouths. I've considered I might actually be IEE because of this, but IJ temperament and Se polr make much much more sense than EP & Ti-polr.
The communication with LSEs is of course really easy and I find the EJ temperament pleasant, but as individuals I too often feel we have not much to offer to each other..

I agree with how you describe LSE, but unlike you I have a lot to offer to them. That's what duality is about.

Not type related:

Types being coined as "cheaters." Any type can cheat, especially people who don't value what they have and run after their physical parts. Look, Arnold and Maria are duals and he's LSE and he cheated. I call him immature, ego centric and ungrateful of a good relationship. But there are assholes like him in any dual pair. He's trying to get her back now. OF COURSE HE IS. HE'S AN IDIOT AND F'D UP HIS RELATIONSHIP. HE SHOULD BE BENDING OVER BACKWARDS FOR THE STUPID ACTIONS HE TOOK.

[Birdie]

I think cheating is usually more animalistic desires and less about appreciation.


Maritsa, does Arnold know you feel this way? He's probably devastated by your loss of friendship.
Oh I'm just kidding, he's an UNAPPRECIATIVE SON OF A BITCH.

[Ave]

I think cheating is usually more animalistic desires and less about appreciation.


Maritsa, does Arnold know you feel this way? He's probably devastated by your loss of friendship.
Oh I'm just kidding, he's an UNAPPRECIATIVE SON OF A BITCH.

Of course he is, since Maritsa is more saintly and perfect than everyone else, and not at all superiority-complexed and condescending.

*cough*

/Sarcasm

[Galen]

I've had great experiences with both, but so far I've met more inspiring SLIs than LSEs.
My preferences in music, movies, hobbies, politics and lifestyle in general are somewhat undergroud, and most LSEs I know are very "mainstream" people. They wear whatever the local H&M sells, listen to whatever's on the radio, watch stupid reality TV shows and, worst of all, show absolutely no interest and/or skill in analytical/philosophical discussions. I also often feel ashamed about their sense of humour.. My Te-LSE granpa may be to blame for this; he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard. Even at the age of 6 I was constantly facepalming in his company. No discretion whatsoever. SLIs, on the other hand, are more wary and know when to shut their mouths. I've considered I might actually be IEE because of this, but IJ temperament and Se polr make much much more sense than EP & Ti-polr.
The communication with LSEs is of course really easy and I find the EJ temperament pleasant, but as individuals I too often feel we have not much to offer to each other..

This is a common complaint I keep hearing about duality. While in theory it may be a good match, duals tend to be from completely different worlds and have very different/alien perspectives. Of course it all depends on the individuals in question, but if they don't already have some sort of common ground between them (religion, politics, hobbies, etc) then the two will likely fly right by each other without having any interest piqued.

[woofwoofl]

ILIs are excellent, and they're generally pretty forgiving and understanding when it comes to be being bad at staying in regular contact and all; when they need me big time though, I'm there. I'm gonna help a Te-ILI dude brawl, it's gonna rule! I'm gonna do push-ups with him; he's a big dude, so he can use his knees as a fulcrum while I match him with full-on push-ups while balanced on my hands and toes with my back straight and all that; also gotta run with him around the block some so he doesn't get winded as easily; not too thrilled with the snow being an obstacle, but we can work it...

LIEs are wonderful, but we're even worse with contacting each other somehow! We're both pretty high on the energy, and we have great conversations; the conversations may seem dry as hell from an outside perspective, but they're absolutely excellent and we don't have to worry about irreparably pissing each other off or boring the hell out of each other (this also goes for ILIs). They also seem to really like the food I make, often me and them are the only ones that will go near it...

The relations are similar, yet distinctly different, and both excellent; I wouldn't choose one if it meant the dismissal of the other... also, they're both pretty receptive in general towards the heavy metal stuff I'm into lots (with the Te-ILI's musical tastes orbiting around a central point of White Zombie's Astro Creep 2000 album, and the Te-LIE being into shit tons of power metal)...

[Jenna]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...uality-romance

Activity <3
That was written in june, so we had been together for just a couple of months, but now it has been 8 months, and everything that he wrote is still true.

I think activity and duality both work very well - they are just different. The main area that duality wins out is how effortless it is, the function you most naturally use complements the function your dual most naturally uses. However, a lot of the things that seem off-putting about duality aren't present in activity - I'm talking mostly about the demonstrative function here I suppose. Your dual's demonstrative is your activity's ignoring (which is also your own PoLR). Your activity partner is less aware of your PoLR but is more aware of your role function. (I can't find any place that explores this more, probably because of the huge emphasis on duality being "the best" but it is something that I think is worth looking into)
Many of the supposed downfalls of activity are things I have yet to experience, and while I see how in theory they COULD be a problem, in reality they aren't. Overactivation, for example, has never occurred; I don't feel bored or repelled by his base function. While I do see that I don't appreciate it AS MUCH as Se, I never feel like I'm getting an excess amount of it. Most descriptions say the main problem is the j/p differences. Function wise, I would say they are actually referring to your own creative function being your partner's suggestive and vice versa. I wouldn't really describe this as a factor for incompatibility, the way the descriptions do, it's just a slight difference between duality and activation. And as he mentioned in his thread that I will mention again - all it takes to overcome that difference is a more conscious use of your creative function and it has a huge payoff. It's like getting the best of both worlds.

(I'd also like to add that beta introvert activity partners is possibly a better option than either of the pair's duals. EIEs are often really neurotic and SLEs are often cheaters, while IEIs and LSIs are typically more sane... Of course this is just generally, there are plenty of exceptions)







Type related reasons that I like LSI> SLE
Stable and reliable
Very committed
Able to control self
Comes to conclusions carefully
Would make a better father


SLEs are very fun and impulsive, but when I was dating one, there was this underlying thought, asking "how long will this last?" The SEE was similar and even though he was much more trustworthy than the SLE, he was too careless. Ultimately what matters most to me is love, and my closest relationships. Se bases just seem too chaotic to value the same thing, unless they are older. Or perhaps they do value it but value something else (like being successful) much more. LSIs are much more safe and stable, and I think an LSI is more likely (more likely than an SLE, that is) to share my values, or will at least respect them more.




On a more personal level, it's probably obvious that I'm very happy in this relationship. I don't mean to sound so cheesy and over sentimental but Peter has helped me so much through many personal obstacles, some of them I wasn't even consciously aware of, and I am eternally grateful for everything he has done for me.

[Aquagraph]

Assuming I'm ILE, I'd go with a mirage rather than activators.

[krieger]

dual is always better... no contest. i think some people here are confused.