In which ways is Duality better than Activity?

[redbaron]

very good. you must have gotten an A in math. lol

[chip]

very good. you must have gotten an A in math. lol

Thanks for not taking me seriously on this one as that was the online equivalent of thinking out loud.

[stevENTj]

14 years of bliss and 2 kids later, my HOT ISFj wife and I are still together. Never a dull moment, lots of fun. Laughing at some of the predictions of doom from an activity relationship. Such as: "ISF types don't seem to be tailored for INT types - often these relationships might even last a lifetime, however the lack of spark / understanding is obvious.". REALLY. I beg to differ on that one.

There is some truth to the socionics.com description about different life rythms (p vs j), but it also makes it sound like a death knell when that's hardly the case.

Got questions, ask.

[blankblank]

Wow, I didn't realize how much people used the intertype relations to rule their romances.

[/sarcasm]

Not that I have much experience. I just didn't realize how much people used it.

[silke]

My activity relation seems to be capable of very intense displays of loyalty but that may be because they have inferior Fe. When their feelings do come through it is very intense and so shows of loyalty are intense also. This may only be the case only for LSIs and LIIs though due to both having that inferior Fe.

I'm thinking that the author is picking up on propensity of activity relationships to do more and talk less. For me activity, duality, and mirage rank like this:
mirage - prefer to talk to each other, end up talking a lot but doing little
duality - talk some, do some, it's intermittent
activity - prefer to do things but talk little, talking get tiring

So activity is like the opposite end of mirage relation. The author may be mis-interpreting the activity partner's greater readiness to help with a deed rather than a word as greater loyalty.

[Ave]

you dont have to think of reasons why an IEE-LSE relationship would work well. Activity is a GREAT relationship, much easier to start than duality, and a very attractive and nice dynamic. I know that when i'm with an LSE (even platonically) we find each other so interesting that we talk and talk and talk. I am very fond of them and there are some LSEs i would most certainly consider dating. Sometimes i wonder whether i should bother with duality at all, as my activity partners are so awesome! My point is that duality isn't the ONLY successful intertype for relationships. In fact, duality IME so far has been somewhat unattainable.

This post inspired me to make this thread, since I've been wanting to make it for a while now; I was talking with a certain INFp on this forum in private and he told me he preffered LSIs to SLEs. I personally like SLEs better than LSIs. Note that this isnt a discussion so much on theoritical compatabilty; duality is theoritically the best relaion, regardless of like or dislike. Thats not the point. Im wondering which one you guys like better, and possibly why(share experiences).

[DirectorAbbie]

I wouldn't want an IEE. They talk too much and are wishy-washy. They also take offense easily and would be difficult to live with.

[Trevor]

I wouldn't want an IEE. They talk too much and are wishy-washy. They also take offense easily and would be difficult to live with.

your dad

[Galen]

I can imagine both relationships on paper working out swimmingly. There have been several ESTjs out there who I've had greater interest in getting to know than a handful of ISTps I can recall. It all depends on the individual's emotional/mental health though, as a psychotic or misanthropic dual will obviously warrant much less positive interest than a happy activator.

[willekeurig]

I've had great experiences with both, but so far I've met more inspiring SLIs than LSEs.
My preferences in music, movies, hobbies, politics and lifestyle in general are somewhat undergroud, and most LSEs I know are very "mainstream" people. They wear whatever the local H&M sells, listen to whatever's on the radio, watch stupid reality TV shows and, worst of all, show absolutely no interest and/or skill in analytical/philosophical discussions. I also often feel ashamed about their sense of humour.. My Te-LSE granpa may be to blame for this; he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard. Even at the age of 6 I was constantly facepalming in his company. No discretion whatsoever. SLIs, on the other hand, are more wary and know when to shut their mouths. I've considered I might actually be IEE because of this, but IJ temperament and Se polr make much much more sense than EP & Ti-polr.
The communication with LSEs is of course really easy and I find the EJ temperament pleasant, but as individuals I too often feel we have not much to offer to each other..

[DirectorAbbie]

he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard.

That's not LSE-related. We like to be respected.

[Slacker]

I think both should work reasonably well. I have a good friend who is IEE and married to an LSE. Their only ongoing problem seems to be that she is a bit of a clutterbug and he likes everything to be very orderly. Oh, and she is much more laid back as far as discipline of children goes and he likes more discipline than that. But overall they seem to get along very well, and those kinds of differences can be type and temperament related, but can also be not related to socionics at all.

[willekeurig]

That's not LSE-related. We like to be respected.

Not all LSEs are like that, but (at least in my own experience) a fair number of them are, especially individuals with relatively low IQ. I think my granpa's behaviour often reflected the weak Fe&Ni. Here's a concrete example:

I was 14 years old when I had a confirmation party (a sort of maturation rite) and was playing Play Station with some friends in my room when my granpa suddenly came in. He spotted my mp3 player on the table and asked if it was a hearing aid and instantly started to bemoan my poor hearing. He completely ignored all objection and said things like "it is nothing to be ashamed of" and that my parents should take a better care of me, not let me listen to loud music etc. Knowing him I decided the best tactic was to agree, since I was in the middle of the PS game and my friends were all trying to hold their laughter. Unfortunately that didn't stop him, as he then decided to exhibit his own hearing aid and all its great features. He even promised to buy me a similar one, since it was the best model available or something. My friends thought this was all hilariously funny, but I only felt embarrassed and frustrated. Fortunately my mom (who used to work as an IT expert ) had heard the conversation and came to save me by asking my granpa to install something on her computer. He may sound like a dotty old man, but at that time he was still working, had his driver's licence etc..

OK I realise this is an extreme example, but similar things have happened with many LSEs I know.

[Jenna]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...uality-romance

Activity <3
That was written in june, so we had been together for just a couple of months, but now it has been 8 months, and everything that he wrote is still true.

I think activity and duality both work very well - they are just different. The main area that duality wins out is how effortless it is, the function you most naturally use complements the function your dual most naturally uses. However, a lot of the things that seem off-putting about duality aren't present in activity - I'm talking mostly about the demonstrative function here I suppose. Your dual's demonstrative is your activity's ignoring (which is also your own PoLR). Your activity partner is less aware of your PoLR but is more aware of your role function. (I can't find any place that explores this more, probably because of the huge emphasis on duality being "the best" but it is something that I think is worth looking into)
Many of the supposed downfalls of activity are things I have yet to experience, and while I see how in theory they COULD be a problem, in reality they aren't. Overactivation, for example, has never occurred; I don't feel bored or repelled by his base function. While I do see that I don't appreciate it AS MUCH as Se, I never feel like I'm getting an excess amount of it. Most descriptions say the main problem is the j/p differences. Function wise, I would say they are actually referring to your own creative function being your partner's suggestive and vice versa. I wouldn't really describe this as a factor for incompatibility, the way the descriptions do, it's just a slight difference between duality and activation. And as he mentioned in his thread that I will mention again - all it takes to overcome that difference is a more conscious use of your creative function and it has a huge payoff. It's like getting the best of both worlds.

(I'd also like to add that beta introvert activity partners is possibly a better option than either of the pair's duals. EIEs are often really neurotic and SLEs are often cheaters, while IEIs and LSIs are typically more sane... Of course this is just generally, there are plenty of exceptions)







Type related reasons that I like LSI> SLE
Stable and reliable
Very committed
Able to control self
Comes to conclusions carefully
Would make a better father


SLEs are very fun and impulsive, but when I was dating one, there was this underlying thought, asking "how long will this last?" The SEE was similar and even though he was much more trustworthy than the SLE, he was too careless. Ultimately what matters most to me is love, and my closest relationships. Se bases just seem too chaotic to value the same thing, unless they are older. Or perhaps they do value it but value something else (like being successful) much more. LSIs are much more safe and stable, and I think an LSI is more likely (more likely than an SLE, that is) to share my values, or will at least respect them more.




On a more personal level, it's probably obvious that I'm very happy in this relationship. I don't mean to sound so cheesy and over sentimental but Peter has helped me so much through many personal obstacles, some of them I wasn't even consciously aware of, and I am eternally grateful for everything he has done for me.

[Aquagraph]

Assuming I'm ILE, I'd go with a mirage rather than activators.

[Pa3s]

I can imagine both relationships on paper working out swimmingly.

Same for me, I remember one EII I had a very good connection with, even though we didn't know each other that well. But our ways led us in different directions and we lost contact. I guess the activity relationship is easier to start and sustain. (At least I'd expect that if my partner was introverted.) But duality might "offer" more in a way of experiences and insights.

It all depends on the individual's emotional/mental health though, as a psychotic or misanthropic dual will obviously warrant much less positive interest than a happy activator.

That too.

[Codie]

Dual. LSI intimidate me abit for some reason.

[krieger]

dual is always better... no contest. i think some people here are confused.

[Ave]

dual is always better... no contest. i think some people here are confused.

Chinese eunechs think you're a prick.

[krieger]

since there's only one person you can speak for i guess this means we've all just learned something about you.

[Ave]

we've all just learned something about you.

Considering that this is about penises, you seem confused.

[krieger]

we're not having a conversation. bye.

[Ave]

Ok, quit posting in my thread then. Glad to see you go.

[Codie]

SLEs are tiring - I feel like I have to always be "on" around them, ready to go out and socialise or be interesting. But I feel like it's something I ought to do more anyway, and they help with that... I just wish it weren't so hard. My bf is stressful since he's E7 and an SLE-E7 has to be babysat so he doesn't throw his phone on the ground and break it, or jump onto a trampoline and cut open his chin, or buy expensive food you don't know how to cook, or win a motorbike on eBay, or starts telling offensive jokes around deltas and thinks the correct response to getting the wrong reaction is to turn up the offensiveness (real life examples). I assume an LSI would be less likely to do these things. He's like a kid in a candy store when he has money. But I'm guessing that's a problem specific to SLE E7s. Fi-PoLR is cuter to me than Ne-PoLR.

I've come across SLE-Se 7w8's like that, they seem kind of immature for me & high energy, but they're gr8 company nontheless. I don't like the deltas I do know irl so I might sit back and enjoy watching them take offense to those jokes. I think i have more of a taste for SLE 9w8-ti's though, calmer and much more risk avoidant..good with money it might take awhile to figure out they're SLE's; Christiano Ronaldo is a possible example. I don't feel as pressured to socialize n stuff, I do feel that pressure to keep their interest though, cos they're clever & think they have everything and everyone figured out.

[redbaron]

EIEs are often really neurotic and SLEs are often cheaters, while IEIs and LSIs are typically more sane... Of course this is just generally, there are plenty of exceptions)

haha truth.

But overall, I think this is more about the individuals and less about types. I think either could work well for a long-term relationship, assuming the persons in question are healthy and want the same things in life/are at the same stage, similar values, etc.

[redbaron]

I've come across SLE-Se 7w8's like that, they seem kind of immature for me & high energy, but they're gr8 company nontheless..

*nods*

[redbaron]

LSIs are more comfortable - they like the same activities (ha, see what I did there?) as I do - my LSI friend and I will go to IKEA together and spend hours squealing over cheap stuff, and gossiping while cleaning the kitchen, or talking about books and movies, whereas I'd imagine that my SLE friends would want to leave and do something "fun" to them, ASAP. LSIs don't have the magnetic "pull" SLEs (and SEEs and ILEs) do though, so I kind of hang out with them sporadically and neither of us really feel the need to meet up more regularly, whereas SLEs are the first place I go when I'm bored.

SLEs are tiring - I feel like I have to always be "on" around them, ready to go out and socialise or be interesting. But I feel like it's something I ought to do more anyway, and they help with that... I just wish it weren't so hard. My bf is stressful since he's E7 and an SLE-E7 has to be babysat so he doesn't throw his phone on the ground and break it, or jump onto a trampoline and cut open his chin, or buy expensive food you don't know how to cook, or win a motorbike on eBay, or starts telling offensive jokes around deltas and thinks the correct response to getting the wrong reaction is to turn up the offensiveness (real life examples). I assume an LSI would be less likely to do these things. He's like a kid in a candy store when he has money. But I'm guessing that's a problem specific to SLE E7s. Fi-PoLR is cuter to me than Ne-PoLR.

Fear of cheating doesn't seem to be a problem with him, or with some other SLEs I know, so I'm not sure it's as common as I thought when I first read the SLE descriptions and decided I would never go out with an SLE

love this post. totally agree. I do think that once SLEs find someone they're really smitten with, there is NO WAY they will cheat. I've known several to remain very faithful for years/lifetimes.

(laughed so hard at the bold... I know an SLE E-7 who's the exact same way and he's over 50 years old!!)

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Activity feels better in the initial stages, dual is more long-haul.

Dual is a type of person you at first think was 'boring' or 'this doesn't seem AT ALL like a person that's good for me!' then slowly over time, when/if enough factors align, you grow to feel indescribable feelings of ideal love. A deep level of compatibility that's always interesting but also, somehow, always feels safe.

Duals are ego-breakers, they work on the level of True Self/Body whereas, Activity operates more on the level of pure mind, so they are going to be more initially stimulating.

Unless you were super good at socionics and understood your mind so well (and even then this may not be true) you might be able to love your dual at first sight but chances are, it operates exactly as the textbook says it does.

[Beautiful sky]

I've had great experiences with both, but so far I've met more inspiring SLIs than LSEs.
My preferences in music, movies, hobbies, politics and lifestyle in general are somewhat undergroud, and most LSEs I know are very "mainstream" people. They wear whatever the local H&M sells, listen to whatever's on the radio, watch stupid reality TV shows and, worst of all, show absolutely no interest and/or skill in analytical/philosophical discussions. I also often feel ashamed about their sense of humour.. My Te-LSE granpa may be to blame for this; he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard. Even at the age of 6 I was constantly facepalming in his company. No discretion whatsoever. SLIs, on the other hand, are more wary and know when to shut their mouths. I've considered I might actually be IEE because of this, but IJ temperament and Se polr make much much more sense than EP & Ti-polr.
The communication with LSEs is of course really easy and I find the EJ temperament pleasant, but as individuals I too often feel we have not much to offer to each other..

I agree with how you describe LSE, but unlike you I have a lot to offer to them. That's what duality is about.

Not type related:

Types being coined as "cheaters." Any type can cheat, especially people who don't value what they have and run after their physical parts. Look, Arnold and Maria are duals and he's LSE and he cheated. I call him immature, ego centric and ungrateful of a good relationship. But there are assholes like him in any dual pair. He's trying to get her back now. OF COURSE HE IS. HE'S AN IDIOT AND F'D UP HIS RELATIONSHIP. HE SHOULD BE BENDING OVER BACKWARDS FOR THE STUPID ACTIONS HE TOOK.

[Birdie]

I think cheating is usually more animalistic desires and less about appreciation.


Maritsa, does Arnold know you feel this way? He's probably devastated by your loss of friendship.
Oh I'm just kidding, he's an UNAPPRECIATIVE SON OF A BITCH.

[Galen]

I've had great experiences with both, but so far I've met more inspiring SLIs than LSEs.
My preferences in music, movies, hobbies, politics and lifestyle in general are somewhat undergroud, and most LSEs I know are very "mainstream" people. They wear whatever the local H&M sells, listen to whatever's on the radio, watch stupid reality TV shows and, worst of all, show absolutely no interest and/or skill in analytical/philosophical discussions. I also often feel ashamed about their sense of humour.. My Te-LSE granpa may be to blame for this; he obviously thought he was a real charm, while he was usually just acting like a social retard. Even at the age of 6 I was constantly facepalming in his company. No discretion whatsoever. SLIs, on the other hand, are more wary and know when to shut their mouths. I've considered I might actually be IEE because of this, but IJ temperament and Se polr make much much more sense than EP & Ti-polr.
The communication with LSEs is of course really easy and I find the EJ temperament pleasant, but as individuals I too often feel we have not much to offer to each other..

This is a common complaint I keep hearing about duality. While in theory it may be a good match, duals tend to be from completely different worlds and have very different/alien perspectives. Of course it all depends on the individuals in question, but if they don't already have some sort of common ground between them (religion, politics, hobbies, etc) then the two will likely fly right by each other without having any interest piqued.

[woofwoofl]

ILIs are excellent, and they're generally pretty forgiving and understanding when it comes to be being bad at staying in regular contact and all; when they need me big time though, I'm there. I'm gonna help a Te-ILI dude brawl, it's gonna rule! I'm gonna do push-ups with him; he's a big dude, so he can use his knees as a fulcrum while I match him with full-on push-ups while balanced on my hands and toes with my back straight and all that; also gotta run with him around the block some so he doesn't get winded as easily; not too thrilled with the snow being an obstacle, but we can work it...

LIEs are wonderful, but we're even worse with contacting each other somehow! We're both pretty high on the energy, and we have great conversations; the conversations may seem dry as hell from an outside perspective, but they're absolutely excellent and we don't have to worry about irreparably pissing each other off or boring the hell out of each other (this also goes for ILIs). They also seem to really like the food I make, often me and them are the only ones that will go near it...

The relations are similar, yet distinctly different, and both excellent; I wouldn't choose one if it meant the dismissal of the other... also, they're both pretty receptive in general towards the heavy metal stuff I'm into lots (with the Te-ILI's musical tastes orbiting around a central point of White Zombie's Astro Creep 2000 album, and the Te-LIE being into shit tons of power metal)...

[Ave]

I think cheating is usually more animalistic desires and less about appreciation.


Maritsa, does Arnold know you feel this way? He's probably devastated by your loss of friendship.
Oh I'm just kidding, he's an UNAPPRECIATIVE SON OF A BITCH.

Of course he is, since Maritsa is more saintly and perfect than everyone else, and not at all superiority-complexed and condescending.

*cough*

/Sarcasm

[ScarlettLux]

I think stackings matter a shit ton..

I love sx/sp and sp/sx... So I think that can override somewhat duality vs activity

[717495]

Who wants an activity partner, ewww.

[Suz]

Activity feels better in the initial stages, dual is more long-haul.

Dual is a type of person you at first think was 'boring' or 'this doesn't seem AT ALL like a person that's good for me!' then slowly over time, when/if enough factors align, you grow to feel indescribable feelings of ideal love. A deep level of compatibility that's always interesting but also, somehow, always feels safe.

Duals are ego-breakers, they work on the level of True Self/Body whereas, Activity operates more on the level of pure mind, so they are going to be more initially stimulating.

Unless you were super good at socionics and understood your mind so well (and even then this may not be true) you might be able to love your dual at first sight but chances are, it operates exactly as the textbook says it does.

Also, prior experience with duals puts you ahead of the game in recognizing duality too, as mentioned in http://www.socionics.us/practice/duality.shtml scroll down to where it says "attracting duals". However, if the dual isn't recognizing you, because of their lack of experience with duals or what have you, that could be hella frustrating.


One thing i dont get though, BnD is what do you mean by "pure mind" in reference to the level activity works on...?

[Galen]

I think stackings matter a shit ton..

I love sx/sp and sp/sx... So I think that can override somewhat duality vs activity

Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it a hundred thousand more times if need be: instinct stacking > socionics.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

One thing i dont get though, BnD is what do you mean by "pure mind" in reference to the level activity works on...?

IME A dual isn't really able to relate to you psychologically. They are more your physical protectors. There's the world inside your head and then there's the world that actually exists. An activity will understand your thinking processes better, your ego, how you think and the personality you present yourself (latin for mask).

[Ver]

I believe both can be good relationships providing there is positive mutual attraction . I know it's after Christmas but isn't it love that counts most ? And our ability to compromise and give and take . Every relationship can go better or worse but of course similar values like in duality, activity and a few others have good possibilities. It's a bit different with particular duals and particular activators. People are more than a type in socionics but a matching type is a good start if you know what I mean.

[Leader]

Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it a hundred thousand more times if need be: instinct stacking > socionics.

This is socionics, not the enneagram. If they were meant to be used together, they would be. There is no way anything in the enneagram is more detailed and indepth than socionics. And instinctual variants matter much less, if at all, than the core types.