Type with the worst temper

[redbaron]

this is a horrible thread

was thinking the same thing. I'm unsubscribing.

[Creepy-male]

I like 9w8 for Dubya. The whole War on Terror smacks of disintegration to 6, and reminds me of me, only I never had a military to mobilise.

[Creepy-male]

Interesting theory. Evolutionary psychology is hard to prove, but that looks like a nice speculation, at the very least.

yea my post isn't hard science but intuitive speculation.

[Airman]

I like 9w8 for Dubya. The whole War on Terror smacks of disintegration to 6, and reminds me of me, only I never had a military to mobilise.

exact, he´s a 9 disintegrated on 6, counterphobic stance.

and he knows full well that the Iraq war ist verloren. just like Obama knows too.

[Airman]

was thinking the same thing. I'm unsubscribing.

what a pity, you´re cool and pretty.

[Absurd]

[Airman]

Lol. δs have a habit of invading countries headed by β regimes.

Not so sure of that. If you consider that today´s western society is Delta... but I consider it more Gamma than Delta, too individualistic to be Delta.

Delta would be something more peaceful, like a new age society in which everyone lives near nature and there´s no such things as billionaires anymore, a very collectivist but peaceful society.

btw as you said, the 3rd Reich was not entirely Beta, it was a mix of Beta and Delta. The collectiveness and fixation of Nazism with order is clearly Delta. The Betas were dominating the thing. That´s why so many massacres and absurd things happened.

[crazedrat]

An entire society can't be labeled accurately as a quadra.

[Joy]

LSE

(or perhaps most irrational temper would be a better way to put it?)

[crazedrat]

But it has its global personality which usually falls within the value boundaries of one.

That is still too vast to label well. Socionics is barely adequate for labeling one person, much less a whole country.

[Airman]

That is still too vast to label well. Socionics is barely adequate for labeling one person, much less a whole country.

I disagree. Socionics is adequate for both having a fairly good description of a person as well as of a culture/regime/country.

In fact any structure has a certain personality to it, think of some company such as IBM, BMW, Microsoft. If a socionist entered there he would be able to see in which quadra the overall mentality/system of the company works with. For example I read that Google lets its workers have plenty of fun and free time, and discipline is not as valued as result and individuality is fostered to the most. Each worker makes his own working schedule, if a guy wants to work his eight hours from midnight to 8AM that´s just fine for Google (or so I read). So this points more to Gamma than any other quadra.

Beta regimes tend to have a strong leadership with authoritarian veins, for example I can cite the most bizarre regime on Earth to exist today, North Korea, in which you are told not to walk around the streets other than when you really need. This is classical Beta leadership, probably that loser who rules that small piece of land is an SLE trying to make everyone scared of him. Deltas, even an LSE which has a tyrant vein, will not be so closed, see for example Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the guy is just very open, if CNN or Larry King or whoever wants to interview him, he just goes there. This is clearly a Delta attitude even though you may dislike the regime being a non-secular Muslim regime. But ask the North Korea guy to go to CNN or some american news channel you won´t even get a response.

[mfckr]

Not so sure of that. If you consider that today´s western society is Delta... but I consider it more Gamma than Delta, too individualistic to be Delta.

The overriding trend in quadra values is in flux right now, I think. Most of Western society is sitting on a δ->α cusp IMO. Once that transition completes itself and the bad side of α runs amok for awhile, the β dictators will emerge from the ensuing clusterfuck like they always historically do. Then β will of course blow civilization into a state of Abyss like it always does when out of balance. And γ will then emerge from the ashes to rebuild and establish sanity again, before handing the torch off to δ who are better at handling matters of long-term stability (γ is somewhat short-sighted in a way). So the cycle goes (more or less).

btw as you said, the 3rd Reich was not entirely Beta, it was a mix of Beta and Delta. The collectiveness and fixation of Nazism with order is clearly Delta. The Betas were dominating the thing. That´s why so many massacres and absurd things happened.

It would be convenient to blame all human atrocities on 1 quadra, but I think it's safe to say they've all got blood on their hands.

Though I do assert that the history of world conflict has largely been an eternal battle of β leaders vs. δ leaders. If only because most regimes of most nations most of the time tend to be one of the two—like it or not, Aristocratic quadras have a penchant for seeking and maintaining power relative to their Democratic brethren. α and γ usually only come to power for short, brief periods of time IMO, largely in only a reactionary capacity or as some sort of contingency operation, etc. Maybe I'll elaborate more on what I mean sometime.

[Airman]

I agree. I was thinking that Ahmadinejad is an IEE, though. I think he's a nice guy overall and things are commanded from behind by religious leaders. Yeah I agree that the regime is kinda Delta, what I especially don't understand is when they ask for apologizes or how easily their justice system goes from death punishment to total acquittal for the same person .
Yes, tradition plays an important role, no matter of the values of the regime, but still... this populist regime was the same which dethroned the shah leadership decades ago, which was Beta and IMO good for the development of Persian culture.

I agree Ahmadinejad can be IEE... I just don´t agree about the Shah regime, in fact it was overthrown because the Shah had been bought by CIA to let Americans do some things there, mainly related to Oil of which Iran has plenty. See that movie Zeitgeist 2 it talks about how the CIA tries to buy every fucking government on Earth. So, the Shah got very very rich, but then Muslims found out and things got kind of ugly for him so there was the Islamic Revolution of 1979.

Airborne, I have the feeling that you see in Beta mainly the rational traits and the Irrational traits you assign to Delta. This is how I explain your preference for this quadra as long as I still type you as SLE . If there was an Irrational Beta regime, I doubt it would be like Nazis, N Korea or Stalinism - eg Mussolini was an SLE, IMO. Even more, China and Germany nowdays are actually very Ti-Rational, too, as administration values and methods, still they're not totalitarian or extreme.

I am still not fixed on my type, although LSE makes A LOT OF SENSE to me, it is what makes the most sense to me. But it´s hard to tell my type yet because of this depression I have. For example I´ve been for 2 days on a very efficient combination of duloxetine and sulpiride and this has boosted my energy levels, strength and confidence. I got myself walking the streets this morning feeling like a brutal monster because I was feeling so strong and walking fast, feeling very Beta-like. But then this could be just these meds. So, so far I am LSE. Plus I see Si in my ego and not Se. Although I have a somewhat strong Se (this could be demonstrative Se) which erupts when I get lots of energy from these meds and feel very good or when I get drunk. Then I am almost an SLE in fact. I was on the lift and this gorgeous blonde came in and I stared at her green eyes and hair and neck so much she started to feel scared but I couldn´t stop. Sometimes I just want to grab a girl I see who is attractive and take her by force. But this is just some times, not usual. I´m fairly sure this is demonstrative Se.

[Airman]

The overriding trend in quadra values is in flux right now, I think. Most of Western society is sitting on a δ->α cusp IMO. Once that transition completes itself and the bad side of α runs amok for awhile, the β dictators will emerge from the ensuing clusterfuck like they always historically do. Then β will of course blow civilization into a state of Abyss like it always does when out of balance. And γ will then emerge from the ashes to rebuild and establish sanity again, before handing the torch off to δ who are better at handling matters of long-term stability (γ is somewhat short-sighted in a way). So the cycle goes (more or less).

It would be convenient to blame all human atrocities on 1 quadra, but I think it's safe to say they've all got blood on their hands.

Though I do assert that the history of world conflict has largely been an eternal battle of β leaders vs. δ leaders. If only because most regimes of most nations most of the time tend to be one of the two—like it or not, Aristocratic quadras have a penchant for seeking and maintaining power relative to their Democratic brethren. α and γ usually only come to power for short, brief periods of time IMO, largely in only a reactionary capacity or as some sort of contingency operation, etc. Maybe I'll elaborate more on what I mean sometime.

I agree with everything you say. Democratic Quadras do not view individuals as groups, really, so Betas and Deltas tend to dominate any regime, because they can manage groups way better. It is as if Alphas and Gammas are too self-centered or short-sighted and cannot see the collectivity and manipulate it, work with it, understand the herd mentality.

[Beautiful sky]

I agree with everything you say. Democratic Quadras do not view individuals as groups, really, so Betas and Deltas tend to dominate any regime, because they can manage groups way better. It is as if Alphas and Gammas are too self-centered or short-sighted and cannot see the collectivity and manipulate it, work with it, understand the herd mentality.

Yes because they can over look Fi and focus people as a machine, a collective person with one head, one heart, overlooking individual nature of the human kind. Really, all ST's can do that.

[norph]

I am still not fixed on my type, although LSE makes A LOT OF SENSE to me, it is what makes the most sense to me. But it´s hard to tell my type yet because of this depression I have. For example I´ve been for 2 days on a very efficient combination of duloxetine and sulpiride and this has boosted my energy levels, strength and confidence. I got myself walking the streets this morning feeling like a brutal monster because I was feeling so strong and walking fast, feeling very Beta-like. But then this could be just these meds. So, so far I am LSE. Plus I see Si in my ego and not Se. Although I have a somewhat strong Se (this could be demonstrative Se) which erupts when I get lots of energy from these meds and feel very good or when I get drunk. Then I am almost an SLE in fact. I was on the lift and this gorgeous blonde came in and I stared at her green eyes and hair and neck so much she started to feel scared but I couldn´t stop. Sometimes I just want to grab a girl I see who is attractive and take her by force. But this is just some times, not usual. I´m fairly sure this is demonstrative Se.

You are so obviously beta it's a joke to me.

[Beautiful sky]

You are so obviously beta it's a joke to me.

He's too focused on information (Te) and Si that's all over the feelings that he's deriving from his experience. Just because he wants to take a woman with force doesn't mean he has Se perceptual dominance. Te allows him to (forgive me for saying) talk a lot and about the details of his experiences, which may not be "useful" in an Se sense.

[Airman]

He's too focused on information (Te) and Si that's all over the feelings that he's deriving from his experience. Just because he wants to take a woman with force doesn't mean he has Se perceptual dominance. Te allows him to (forgive me for saying) talk a lot and about the details of his experiences, which may not be "useful" in an Se sense.

Forgiven, honey.

In fact my main doubt is actually if I am SLI or LSE, as I said I took SLE off because I know SLEs personally and know that I´m not one of them, unless I´m a very unique SLE.

But I could be SLI because if I take the Reinin Dichotomies for serious - which is somewhat debatable to do - I´d be more Irrational than Rational, since I focus more on states of mind and body than on actions and emotions, I guess.

[Beautiful sky]

You are so obviously beta it's a joke to me.

Notice also that his description does not follow the movement of an object (or in this case that woman) hence he does not observe the dynamics of an object (when it's in motion) but rather the statics (when the woman, in her form,is standing still infront of him). In comparison, Merky, who is SLE describes the cat in one of his posts, with good amount of Se, observing this object (a cat) in motion and describing it in motion.

[crazedrat]

I think he's ESTj but he does have a dash of Beta. If we were dual-typing him I'd look to Beta first.

[thePirate]

See, there´s the Beta hatred coming out. Let it out. It´s therapeutic. ****** also did let it out, Stalin also. Go on. Better let it out on an internet forum this is why we deltas make such institutions to control your destructive impulses. But you´re not dumb, and I´m taking this lightly, the rage is past, so arguing with you is in fact good.




It´s not making excuses. We have many reasons. We help others. You betas only help your own selves. We can do even more shit than you do because we help others.



This is to show power. We break the rules to show the evil guys we´ve got balls and also because we enjoy breaking rules once in a while since we live so much according to rules. It´s just something humans cannot stand for long.


Excuse after excuse after excuse




I expressed myself unclearly. We CAN be sadistic and brutal. We are not like this, generally, unlike SLEs for example.



That we´re always trying to improve things. I left it unsaid, my fault.



If this is true and IEIs see LSEs through, then the same is opposite because why do I get so much hatred from them, just out of nothing? They just THINK they 'see me through' and have the courage to question my ways in a very verbally aggressive manner sometimes going down to the lowest levels of respect. If there is one thing I and I presume other ESTJs do not tolerate is disrespect towards us. You can say what you want, but be polite. Otherwise you will probably meet a bad reaction on my part.

And if this is true and we also see them through, this is why we are conflictor types in the first place. So we can see all their lack of discipline, respect, honor, valor, all their utter disregard for societal norms plus this arrogance of thinking they can 'see everyone through' and have the right to try to 'better people' by talking bullshit about them when not asked to help.
Really I think it´s more the other way round, they see in us everything they HATE and want to KILL, but since they see we´re too strong and laws exist and they can´t physically harm us, they just babble nonsense and difame us because they HATE us. And the best thing is, we always win because we´re stronger, we´re not victims and we´ve got Te on Ego block and Se demonstrative so they envy us for being smarter and also able to scare the shit off anyone. So they get pissed off and HATE MORE every time. It´s not our fault.

I agree with everything you say. Democratic Quadras do not view individuals as groups, really, so Betas and Deltas tend to dominate any regime, because they can manage groups way better. It is as if Alphas and Gammas are too self-centered or short-sighted and cannot see the collectivity and manipulate it, work with it, understand the herd mentality.

you are just so full of shit its ridiculous

please stop talking.

[mfckr]

As much as Airborne seems to be clashing w/ the INFps, it might be a cue that he isn't β.

[thePirate]

As much as Airborne seems to be clashing w/ the INFps, it might be a cue that he isn't β.

we fight amongst our own all the time.

I for one did so rather adamantly for awhile

its just foreplay for us ashton.

[mfckr]

we fight amongst our own all the time.

I for one did so rather adamantly for awhile

its just foreplay for us ashton.

I considered that, but it doesn't seem to be mere foreplay/fun/games for him.

[crazedrat]

No Beta would call Maritsa 'honey'

[Beautiful sky]

No Beta would call Maritsa 'honey'

I love being called honey. It activates my Si in all sorts of desirable ways. :wink:

[redbaron]

I love being called honey. It activates my Si in all sorts of desirable ways. :wink:

My IEE mom calls my SEI dad "honey" and he loves it. lol

[Airman]

I considered that, but it doesn't seem to be mere foreplay/fun/games for him.

Nothing is mere foreplay/fun/games for me. I´m serious about things, overly serious, and this is why I don´t consider SLE for me 'seriously'.

[Satan]

Nothing is mere foreplay/fun/games for me. I´m serious about things, overly serious, and this is why I don´t consider SLE for me 'seriously'.

You can't enjoy life.

[Satan]

No Beta would call Maritsa 'honey'

I would. I could also call her my gooey raisen ball.

[Satan]

Notice also that his description does not follow the movement of an object (or in this case that woman) hence he does not observe the dynamics of an object (when it's in motion) but rather the statics (when the woman, in her form,is standing still infront of him). In comparison, Merky, who is SLE describes the cat in one of his posts, with good amount of Se, observing this object (a cat) in motion and describing it in motion.

Maritsa, naked, drab and worn. Her fragile body lying open. And yet eyes divert away, as she falls into the dark abyss pigeons rise into the sky. And a violin plays a familiar song. A single whine emits from her, and then Discojoe appears behind her, chainsaw in hand. And as she lies in a pool of blood there is derisive laughter in the air. In the distance the beat of drums is heard and appears the Ezra. With his nose proudly hung in the air. He proceeds to enquiringly look at the body. He looks at Discojoe, who winks, and a grin appears on Ezra's face. And they both laugh in unison. Then the limp body has one last splutter of life. Silence descends and the pigeons come down encircling her.

[Airman]

I love being called honey. It activates my Si in all sorts of desirable ways. :wink:

Do you mean you get sexually excited, honey?

[Airman]

Maritsa, naked, drab and worn. Her fragile body lying open. And yet eyes divert away, as she falls into the dark abyss pigeons rise into the sky. And a violin plays a familiar song. A single whine emits from her, and then Discojoe appears behind her, chainsaw in hand. And as she lies in a pool of blood there is derisive laughter in the air. In the distance the beat of drums is heard and appears the Ezra. With his nose proudly hung in the air. He proceeds to enquiringly look at the body. He looks at Discojoe, who winks, and a grin appears on Ezra's face. And they both laugh in unison. Then the limp body has one last splutter of life. Silence descends and the pigeons come down encircling her.

Then behind the two appears Airborne wearing an SS Nazi uniform with oak leaves in silver shining on the moonlight. Two rapid and precise shots pierce discojoe´s and ezra´s laughing heads from their backs, coming out through their open mouths. They fall immediately while their spirits ascends to meet maritsa´s in some place in between hell and heaven. Airborne lights his mini french cigar, looks at the three bodies and walks away. The sound of his boots hitting the ground rythmically and the feast of the pigeons is all that echoes now.

[Marie84]

You are so obviously beta it's a joke to me.

This thread has turned into one big Beta fest

[mfckr]

I really don't think he's β; as much as I also initially wanted to believe that was the case. I think you make too many false stereotypes, Marie (and norph, et. al).

[Beautiful sky]

Maritsa, naked, drab and worn. Her fragile body lying open. And yet eyes divert away, as she falls into the dark abyss pigeons rise into the sky. And a violin plays a familiar song. A single whine emits from her, and then Discojoe appears behind her, chainsaw in hand. And as she lies in a pool of blood there is derisive laughter in the air. In the distance the beat of drums is heard and appears the Ezra. With his nose proudly hung in the air. He proceeds to enquiringly look at the body. He looks at Discojoe, who winks, and a grin appears on Ezra's face. And they both laugh in unison. Then the limp body has one last splutter of life. Silence descends and the pigeons come down encircling her.

Do you know that Stephen King is ESTp and an awesome writer because he can write very much like you? Not kidding. I wouldn't mind if you perfected this ability so that I can read your books one day. You can write about us as your characters...lol

He can describe things in motion; his novels are vivid and alive; he's really something.

[mfckr]

Do you know that Stephen King is ESTp

More likely Fe-ESFj. There's no in his writing; lots of and . I find him unreadable, but that's just my own tastes/preferences.

[Beautiful sky]

More likely Fe-ESFj. There's no in his writing; lots of and . I find him unreadable, but that's just my own tastes/preferences.

Ashton, seriously, you're joking with me right? OMG. Stop typing them by whatever method you're using and pull some real life autobio quotes.

Read On Writing by Stephen King and in it you will see from what real life characters and observations he draws his novels from...uggggh.

[Marie84]

I really don't think he's β; as much as I also initially wanted to believe that was the case. I think you make too many false stereotypes, Marie (and norph, et. al).

I don't agree with your approach to Socionics either, let's leave it at that

[crazedrat]

I've never seen you make an insightful contribution socionics wise, marie. I really don't think you're qualified to make a statement like that.