How is Ti PoLR manifested in ENFps and ESFps?

[Suz]

People say of Ti-egos that their explanations are long and full of useless information. Sorry but if you would care to understand its importance in relation to the conceptualized form you would be able to use rules as proper rules and not just abstract statements.

Actually i've heard that said about Te-egos, not Ti-egos. But i guess it's all a matter of perspective.

[The Ineffable]

Actually i've heard that said about Te-egos, not Ti-egos. But i guess it's all a matter of perspective.

I guess not. Where have you head that?

[Cuddly McFluffles]

People say of Ti-egos that their explanations are long and full of useless information. Sorry but if you would care to understand its importance in relation to the conceptualized form you would be able to use rules as proper rules and not just abstract statements.

Actually i've heard that said about Te-egos, not Ti-egos. But i guess it's all a matter of perspective.

I don't know about explanations; but my LSI stepdad can talk forever.

[strrrng]

What I'm noticing here is that the coherency of a system and the good feeling are separate entities from how you described it. The status of the system causes a feeling, which isn't so much a gestalt as it is a reaction, unless I'm misunderstanding something. For Fi, or at least for me, the system and the feeling are the same thing. Points of data are taken in, and at the same time they shape the noumenal structure in whatever way. Then if you ignore the points of data and instead just take note of the structure's resulting shape, that shape would be the sort of "gestalt" feeling I'm referring to.

see, this is what I'm still trying to differentiate, because I relate very strongly to everything concerning gestalt feelings, etc.

it might even have something to do with aristocratic quadras, given that the external field complements the internal; one could only justify a feeling of congruence via an extrinsic spectrum.

from a beta pov, I often find myself reading over something and referencing the different aspects of my subjective system as it manifests its own; symmetry in the measurement then seals the boundaries for an entire process to streamline, usually in images or metaphors, as a confirmation of the structure's premises, etc.

what you're describing seems a bit more objectively located, and through a natural evolution, brought to a state of inner rest, the implicit boundaries of said process finding resonance.

As a more concrete example, I've done a bit of metacognitive analysis and came up with some interesting points. I find that whenever I stare off into space, when I'm not actively trying to process or deal with information, my eyes will subconsciously move themselves so that the information received from my entire field of vision "feels" the best. By this I mean that my eyes/brain will scan my environment for fields of colors, shapes, discernible objects, etc. Then, still at the subconscious level, it seems my brain takes all of the things in that field of vision and somehow synthesizes it all down to a "feeling," an actual emotion that I can understand.

odd, this is what I find myself doing a lot. it's some kind of peripheral monitoring of sound and form, 'not looking in order to see things moving,' and the lateral motion recalibrates the borders of my perception. internal elements are what they are, I guess lol.

[Galen]

from a beta pov, I often find myself reading over something and referencing the different aspects of my subjective system as it manifests its own; symmetry in the measurement then seals the boundaries for an entire process to streamline, usually in images or metaphors, as a confirmation of the structure's premises, etc.

Sounds like you're translating your Ti structure into a much more malleable Ni "structure," allowing it to more fluidly transmute itself into the other. I imagine in an Si mind-frame these boundaries between structures would already be sealed off the instant they were created.

The difference I'm finding between what you're talking about and what I'm explaining is that I can't analyze my own structure by itself. The structure can only be hinted at by the points around it. This probably does sound like something Ni/Se can relate to as well, but the key difference would be information input vs. output, however that can really be measured.

what you're describing seems a bit more objectively located, and through a natural evolution, brought to a state of inner rest, the implicit boundaries of said process finding resonance.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, could you expand on it a bit?

odd, this is what I find myself doing a lot. it's some kind of peripheral monitoring of sound and form, 'not looking in order to see things moving,' and the lateral motion recalibrates the borders of my perception. internal elements are what they are, I guess lol.

This sounds like a more strictly information input scheme than it is a means of information synthesis, so it's not quite the same thing but it's pretty close, lol.

[strrrng]

Sounds like you're translating your Ti structure into a much more malleable Ni "structure," allowing it to more fluidly transmute itself into the other. I imagine in an Si mind-frame these boundaries between structures would already be sealed off the instant they were created.

right, because the implied Fi boundaries would define the expansion of Si's... I'll clarify this more below.

The difference I'm finding between what you're talking about and what I'm explaining is that I can't analyze my own structure by itself. The structure can only be hinted at by the points around it. This probably does sound like something Ni/Se can relate to as well, but the key difference would be information input vs. output, however that can really be measured.

it probably also has to do with the fact that you're static and I'm dynamic. I can't analyze the structure of my perceptions' movement, but it always remains very aligned; Ti structures I can suspend more, much like I'd expect you to be able to do with Si.

this would probably imply the input/output of information as at least partially dependent on ego/super-id functions.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, could you expand on it a bit?

well if I'm visualizing delta functions from an NF pov, then the Fi structure is that implicit pulse, circumscribed by the subject; Ne is its scalar field, the different forms the rubber band can take in being bent. implied by this (contraction-dilation), is a sequence of the points/bends ordered by the parameters of its observable movement (expansion-gradation); thus you have a predictable measure of how a person melds their essential form in different situations.

This sounds like a more strictly information input scheme than it is a means of information synthesis, so it's not quite the same thing but it's pretty close, lol.

yeah, it is; but I view it as an a priori necessity for synthesis, clarify the lens before presuming to see.

[plotter]

About the word "Rules"

I just thought we used "rules" as a substitute for what we really meant because we are lazy, because personally I dislike, rules, laws, and the like.
When I speak of "rules" I mean an abstracted version of reality (or fiction) with two or more "objects" and their relations to eachother descibed in such a way, that when you change something with one of the objects, a change must occur to either the described relationm, or the other object, in such a way that the total sum is the same.

Or something like that