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The Suggestive Function: Cruel Oppressor of the Young
Run with it!
As a child I was plagued by alpha Fe -- I hungered for acceptance yet could not find it because I could not make it. (my primary means of being accepted was by being the "good little boy", and this worked with (most) adults, but not my peers). I could not "get" people to be my friends. So I accepted myself, discharged my anger, and began to only accept others on condition that they accepted me. I observed that I didn't want to, didn't need to change myself because I already behaved as the standard of what a person should be; hence it wasn't my prerogative to seek acceptance where it was not awarded, but to punish -- judge -- others for not awarding it by ostracizing them from my own declared sphere of friendship.
Wow I relate to this paragraph a fuck load. Especially the bold.Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
Wouldn't this be mostly Fi? As I understand it, "like/dislike" is the province of Fi. Fe would pertain more to "happy/sad".
"I can't make people like me" = Super-Ego Fi.
"I can't make people feel happy" = Super-Ego Fe.
"I wish people would make me happy" = Super-Id Fe.
Of course, they're rather directly related -- the easiest way to make people like you is to make them feel happy.
For what it's worth, though, I definitely empathize with this (except for the last part about punishing/judging/ostracizing people who won't be my friends; I'm more "live and let live" in that regard). It makes me think my previous intuitive feeling about you being IEI may be wrong -- as intuitive feelings often are.
Quaero Veritas.
I find Pinnochio's post about fantasy worlds and serial killers interesting.
I don't think there is anything wrong with "fantasy" in and of itself though -- take 4 cases.
1) An olympic athlete who has a fantasy of winning a gold medal in the olympic and trains hard and eventually succeeds. This would have to begin with a fantasy, which would turn into a goal, which is then worked at in order to be realized. A lot of athletes actually get through all the tough training because its that fantasy of victory/achievement that drives them.
2) An artist/writer who uses fantasy creatively. They place their fantasies down into a work of some sort. It could be musical in nature, something they hear first in their head before it is put into motion. It could be literally a fantasy world with fantasy people in the case of an author writing a story or novel of some sort. It could be an image in the case of visual art or a movie for a film maker. All this internal fantasy (it may be pleasant or dark in nature) relates back to a need for self-expression of the artist.
3) An engineer/builder who uses fantasy in order to imagine a finished product or result before it is constructed. Particularly here I am thinking about maybe new technology, envisioning new advanced forms of technology and then experimenting around with things in order to invent this technology or discover why it is or is not possible.
4) Sexual Fantasy, need I say more, pornography would not exist without this.
Anyways I mention these four cases because fantasy is so ingrained into human cognition that I always feel unsatisfied at the explanation psychologists give concerning fantasy. It seems like the immediate remedy they purpose is to loose fantasy, but it seems to me to be the seat of creativity, to imagine something first and then put it into actualization.
I think part of the negative psychology of fantasy is when its used to anesthetize ones pain they feel from whatever problem is causing them this pain in reality. At first this isn't such a big deal, but after a while the problem in reality grows because its not addressed, and one has to indulge harder and harder into their fantasy to feel better. Eventually it forms grandiose fantasies, which are hardly realistic or obtainable in the real world. After sometime these fantasies become the focus of their life and are pursued in reality, which can lead to a combination of effects depending on the person's temperament.
If they feel like they do not have enough control over their lives, feel confined, feel powerless, or feel put down. They will likely develop sociopathic tendancies or depression. Sometimes both which alternates with unstable mood, like a manic-depressive. In their manic state - sociopath... in their depressive state - depression.
One feature of sociopaths in particular, is a sort of need to destroy the beauty in the object that they envy. A rational person on the other hand wishes to preserve the object of beauty out of appreciation for it. Destroying the object of beauty for them is an act of possession -- i.e. "If I can't have it, no one will".
Tcaudillg, doesn't seem like a sociopath, just a bit of a loner... which I have a feeling is a result of his intelligence/mind. Unfortunately to me, this seems to be the feature of tcaudillg which stands out to me, and unfortunately most people could care less. What attracts people is the way one expresses themselves interpersonally. Maybe all that is really required is develop some proficiency with interpersonal skills through practice. Lol sorry if this isn't helpful or anything, or offensive. It may not even apply since in all fairness this post is about his childhood and not the current state of things.
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Yea I didn't mean to add that part in to imply you were, I'm just used to posting opinions on youtube videos were I talk like that... where I make an opinionated judgment about something.
Anyways I'm weighing my opinion in here without absolute certainty, I just wanted to get the ball rolling on this topic.
Feeling happy would actually be Si, I think. "Enjoyment", pleasant experiences. I once argued Fi was like/dislike myself, but Fi (with Se) is solely about fairness. Unfair treatment is, of course, a very good reason to dislike someone or to disagree with them.
I think happy/sad is an Fe response to Ni.
I'm not surprised the ILEs don't reciprocate -- they feel extremely strong pressure to be accepted, after all. What I'm not seeing yet is the whole suggestive/estimative connection in this context.
Hmm I've always considered Fi to be about personal subjective value judgements...
I'll use an analogy to explain
Take a Light Bulb which gives off light
An Fe ego is highly aware and confident of their feelings associated with the light.
An Fi ego is highly aware and confident with their feelings associated with the lightbulb.
The Fi ego makes a valued judgement concerning the value of the lightbulb (since it can produce light, which their Fe id is aware of)
The Fe ego doesn't focus too much on the value judgment, but instead considers the light from the lightbulb to be a good/valued thing (they also make the connection this is because the lightbulb produced it via Fi in their id)
Now replace the lightbulb with more practical issues like a person's feelings associated with relationships to material things, people, and society/community.
This is how I typically view Fe and Fi. It illustrates this principle of the difference between Introverted Functions and Extroverted Functions. Many people believe introverted functions and extroverted functions were purely named so arbitrary and their is no principle that can be used to distinguish the logical difference between the two. I would disagree.
There must indeed be a measuring stick by which to assess fairness, mustn't there? Because fairness, like all other things, is relative....
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pinnochio stop it with the mob appeals
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Without the serial killer allusion I would assume.
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
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I think Pinocchio gets his suggestive functioning from a seance by the sounds of it.
I've always had difficulties differentiating necessary actions/information as well as being able to develop information via my own understanding.
Some examples;
In school, I would copy every word of info my teachers wrote down (if it wasn't already provided from a sheet). An LII friend of mine used to tell me that I just needed to write down the basics and word them in a language that was useful to me (which was true, but didn't help me much).
I can't evaluate the efficiency of what I'm doing, if I'm given a deadline (for instance) I'll use that entire period to work and revise it even if I probably didn't need to. A lot of the time I've put something out there that I worked really hard on and later find out I neglected more necessary input.
Another big downfall is a rather unwarranted annoyance of people who disregard Te.
I recently got into a scuffle with my ILE mom, who spent a bunch of money trying to plant her own garden from seedlings (keeping in mind she knows squat about botany).
Low and behold, nothing grew and I asked her why she didn't bother asking professionals/seeking professional sources on *how* to go about doing this properly, she figured that it was all common sense and didn't require experience. In which she did this *again* without doing what I said above and it, again, didn't grow. I see this as a massive waste of time and money that could have been easily solved by not relying on ones own understanding and instead looking to reliable sources
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
I think the key with interviews is to confine your explanations of yourself to things only of interest to the interviewer, rather than give them your personality profile/life story.
That confined perspective in the interview is just there to get at the point quicker (communication), so don't be all like "oh its a bunch of corporate dehumanization"...
Anyways things that are important are like qualifications, specifically in logical terms, not so much like personality traits, but what credentials you have that make you an asset for the organization. Some personality traits are good, but not too many -- think professional, like "positive", "solution oriented", and "team player".... also just don't bullshit them with buzzwords, be able to elaborate on why you feel these traits fit you and be honest.
By being honest I mean sincere, instead of completely bullshitting -- use exclusion, don't put focus on your blemishes, focus on your positive aspects to sell yourself to the prospective employer as a good fit for their organization. In other words, exclude negative information... which isn't the same as lying.
Which leads to the next point; outside of qualifications also be sure you have a rationale for why you want to work there or if its a higher level job, be sure you know about the corporation/company and the work they do and the industry they are in.
Really that's most of it, in my opinion... but then again I'm just playing the role of the self-proclaimed expert here.
Anyways the above, mastering all of that is the art of acing the interview. There is also the art of getting the interview.
This is why I mentioned this. I am Ne seeking during an interview. The interviewer is in a position of respect and regard for me(hence they can "help me" with what is bolded), so I throw everything but the kitchen sink at them, hoping they will latch onto stuff about me that are important to them as an employer. I am exaggerating a bit here, but changing diapers at a hospital, working a soup kitchen, and volunteering as a tutor are all equally valuable to me. As of now, I have no employment experience and I come home empty all the time. I read the books and think a lot about what I plan on saying, then I go there and not say much and when I start talking, I think it sounds great at the time, but then a couple days later, I realize the vapidity of my statements. I think it sounded great at the time, but only because what I said came to me off the top of my head.
I really feel I should be given a job without all these questions. Someone should be able to see my ability without it.
Last edited by Mediator Kam; 06-28-2010 at 11:40 PM.
D-SEI9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
I forgot to eat breakfast this morning. It completely slipped my mind.
Stan is not my real name.
I have never been able to aptly talk about myself positively because I really really need someone to be able to examine me in totality and choose what parts of my personality and actions have the most promise. I have failed a couple interviews because I am unable to give information that the interviewer wants to hear and I end up sounding like I am bragging on myself.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
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This is the thing. I am trying to be myself, but it's not working. Myself shouldn't be involved in working for a company, it should be making ice cream or something that is fun and makes people happy in a direct manner.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
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