Following trends, most of them stupid

[Aiss]

What about result types?

I was using pinocchionics terms of (capitalized) Base = valued (+), Creative = valued (-). So these are the same for process and result types within the same quadra.

But yes, I think that types look actually past their Base! Sometimes you don't have a choice, then think about these compromises:
- the Role function: it's basically the opposite of your Base, it the incompatible one, still, you may use it, that period you have to deny your Base to interfere
- the Creative function type of information is not always compatible with the Base, when it comes as raw data from outside. If you read my example about LIIs, with their anal-ness against authoritative or forceful people, they can't get over their Se-PoLR, even if it's something in their primary field/interest. They basically prefer to use their Role than the Base about it, when the PoLR ravages their conscious and become strictly Fi - apparently - they don't even put this under investigation. I say Fi because how they react defies Ti and that "common-sense" bullshit shocks me every time.
Even if not Fi, it's definitely outside the range of Ti, IMO.

What you say here is very similar to what I've written just today in ILE/SLE PoLR difference thread. I don't think I've seen the example you speak of. I see it as blocks issue - which may be illustrated by polarity, btw - when types are faced with clearly role or PoLR related information, they quickly default to super-ego over stronger alternative pairing. This happens both ways - when type feels obliged to use their role, it comes off worse for the fact that PoLR judgments take over, although the person themselves will often try to justify them with creative later. This is very important point, we don't always realize that bad judgment (they're usually bad) stemmed from PoLR - what happens is rather rationalizing it and rejecting any suggestion against it.

Role and creative is an unstable combination, in short. (I think that's part of the reason why supervising is tiresome. : P) So yes, when a person is acting out of their super-ego, by definition they aren't making use of ego in that particular case, but the filter - the basic perception - remains, which is part of why we aren't happy with ourselves using other combinations: the information process is largely viewed as inferior.

Parasite reminded me of this when we talked about this matter: when she bought a bluetooth, she brought a no-name. I had absolutely no idea how should I choose one and then I went myself to buy from a branded shop. This is because I had no time to investigate and no idea how they work and what should I look at. Yes, an option would be to learn about it, but really, I don't have the patience to learn something I have otherwise no interest in just to buy a scrap . I think many people and types would have done the same thing... apart from an Se or Ni - PoLR . Maybe.

That sounds like something my LII father does. "I don't have the time, I'll overpay and let a salesperson choose it for me". Needless to say, I find it unreasonable. For everyday purchases at a foreign place, it's fine, but if I'm going to make a longer-term one...

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

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[Aiss]

So you mean here that the judgement that we may produce is of the PoLR function nature, or Creative, for example Te - Creative for an ILI, which is the manifestation of PoLR in this type? So for ILI, do you suggest that it uses Fe sometimes?

Not any judgment. These functions are called producing for a reason - we're more likely to try to communicate our understanding (base) by them. I suppose it depends on a definition of "judgment"; in a more colloquial sense of an evaluation we feel strongly about and find it difficult to question, I'd say base and PoLR are more likely to produce judgments than creative and role.

What I was trying to say is that when using super-ego, acting one's role, assessment is taken using vulnerable function, not creative, but we try to justify it with creative.

So for example ILIs acting out of their super-ego will probably act emotionally and misinterpret others' emotions, yet try to cover it by rationalizing and finding practical reasons - even though they made bad decision because of it. ILEs in super-ego state - especially on defensive - will jump to conclusions about people's intentions and act on them, then claim these are entirely objective and "obvious" - except they are, more often than not, wrong. In both cases, Fx-PoLR types make assessments they usually wouldn't - trying to read others' emotions or intentions, and being wrong about. Whereas in normal ego states, they'd be probably the first to avoid jumping to any conclusions on the matter. I've only a vague image of how it works in other types - that is, I see it but putting it into words is harder.

I'm of the opinion that vulnerable function is malfunctioning, yes. It makes infinitely more sense than a "lack of" many people like to think it to be.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

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[stanprollyright]

Good, so, here's my opinion. First, I agree that Producing functions are accepting information from the outside - they are the input plug which, in turn, produces information for the Accepting function, inside. Then, the Accepting function is the one which outputs *things* - judgement in the general sense, base behavior, ideas, etc - the main thing the type does.

You've got it backwards. Accepting functions gather (accept) information, and Producing functions produce things.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[krieger]

Parasite reminded me of this when we talked about this matter: when she bought a bluetooth, she brought a no-name. I had absolutely no idea how should I choose one and then I went myself to buy from a branded shop. This is because I had no time to investigate and no idea how they work and what should I look at. Yes, an option would be to learn about it, but really, I don't have the patience to learn something I have otherwise no interest in just to buy a scrap . I think many people and types would have done the same thing... apart from an Se or Ni - PoLR . Maybe.

That sounds like something my LII father does. "I don't have the time, I'll overpay and let a salesperson choose it for me". Needless to say, I find it unreasonable. For everyday purchases at a foreign place, it's fine, but if I'm going to make a longer-term one...

I do this. The threshold at which I would spend money to get people to do annoying tasks for me is very low.

[krieger]

Also related to this:

3. Ascetic. He appears extremely uncompromising, often looks down with a piercing look from under his philosopher’s forehead. He toughens himself, training for the cold, starvation, losses and disapproval of others. The only aspect where he willingly concedes to his partner is the issue of dressing, taste and routine chores. The necessity to be responsible for these things irritates him. Usually he even does not notice the quality of his clothing. He does not tolerate orders. His dual The Bonvivant, as if being aware of that, involves him into work not by direct orders but begins to fuss about, to make a lot of unnecessary movements – then The Analyst gets involved, and the work goes rapidly, logically and soundly. He himself does not show much initiative, is reclusive and silent.

annoying tasks

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[krieger]

You misquoted something - my father is not LII.

The quote was from Aiss, not you.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

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[krieger]

LoL. Yes, I quoted you too. So what? You have to be a huge jackass to attack someone for accidentally leaving a quotation frame out where there should have been one.